[Light Vs Shadow] - HEROES AND VILLIANS MAFIA

[Locke]

Nice catch on Song AH, I would be fine with a lynch on her after that lie being found - but do we have time for that?

 

Let's get this over with VOTE TINA

 

I'm looking at BG for a lynch today. If he flips scum, as I think he will, then I'll be looking at this.

 

Mine as well get things started. Vote BG

[bgrishinko]

That's fair. I suppose I'm pretty much a gonner. All I can say is what did I have to gain if I were mafia? I RBd Red as I said. Maybe Song or Des can back me up... It's my only hope.

[WWWwombat]

Pretty much BG. Can we call a redo? All this joke voting and tomfoolery has probably made it extremely easy for scum to slip underneath radar... How about this.

 

Unvote. Vote No Lynch.

 

 

Ah, but the damage has been done, yes? Interesting you go straight to No Lynch rather than just an unvote. You also jumped off pretty quick after I posted so that is interesing to note and FoS worthy.

 

Really it was Nolder and Leelou that seemed to take advantage of the train idea. They were the 5th votes respectively on each train. Your's was later after the fun and games got rolling, mine and Maw's votes for each other made sense respectively, Red was got the idea moving and into people's minds.

 

If we apply pressure, I say it should be in that area. Nolder tends to be good at putting pressure on himself often enough so to change it up:

 

Unvote: Vote Leelou

 

Nolder and Leelou were both scum. This would be an extremely risky distancing play imo. Also, counterclaiming roleblocker isn't a typical scum move. If BG is scum, he is playing a very odd game.

[Pantsonfire]

1322854211[/url]' post='2062659']

Just keeping this list where I can find it

 

Dead Mafia Dead Town Claimed a role (Red plus green totally equals purple!!!) Undead person who has claimed no role

 

1) Des--Watcher

1. N1--blocked
2. N2--Wombat(--Ley) --> Blackhoof, Tina, Turin #1, Sakaea, BG, Leelou.
3. N3--watched Wombat--saw no one visit him

2) Turin #1- General Maximus Decimus Meridus - Town - Jailkeep - Died Night 3

1. N1-- Wombat
2. N2(accoding to Des)-- Wombat --> Ley
3. N3--Des believes he was targeted

3) Maw - BATMAN Town- Mason - Lynched Day 1

4) Tina- Town - Superman - Roleblocker-lynched Day 4

1. N1--No one
2. N2--Wombat -->Ley
3. N3--BG

5) Meesh - Voldemort - Mafia - Died night 3

6) Leelou-Bus driver Switcher died night 4

2. N2--Wombat/Ley
3. N3--Wombat/Meesh

7) Sakaea - SAURON - Mafia - Killer - Died Night 2

(according to Song):

1. N1--Wombat
2. N2--Wombat -->Ley

8) Blackhoof HAN SOLO - Town - Hider - Died Night 2

1. N1--we have no clue
2. N2--Wombat --> Ley

9) ReyTurin #2

10) Tiink

11) Amadine

12) Wombat--InventorDoc

1. N1: Wombat
2. N2: Amadine
3. N3: Wombat

13) Aiel Heart - dies night 4

• (t-argeted Wombat N3)

14) Locke

15) Poet - INDIAN JONES - Town - Finder--Lynched Day 2

16) Firepants

17) Song-Tracker

1. N1: Kae-->Wombat
2. N2: Kae-->Wombat
3. N3: BG--> Targeted no one

18) Nolder Leyrann - CRUELLA DE VILLE - Mafia - Goon--Died Night 2

19) Red

20) BG -Role blocker

1. N1--Des
2. N2--Wombat--> Ley
3. N3--Leelou

 

Hope that's easier to read. Updated with Talya's info. AH shall be remembered though her list.....

 

Now the big question is ARE YOU MAFIA? .... Locke?

 

 

 

[Pantsonfire]

Ps what is wi the undead b,ue people on the list? I think I missed the explanation for that......

[Amadine]

Shoulda vote Leelou :/ we were right Red.

 

I'm looking at Tal's player list at the moment and this game is making my head hurt LOL

 

1. Des

2. Turin - General Maximus Decimus Meridus - Town - Jailkeep - Died Night 3

3. Maw - BATMAN Town - Lynched Day 1

4. Tina - SUPERMAN Town - Roleblocker Lynched Day 4

5. Meesh - Voldemort - Mafia - Died night 3

6. Leelou - Norman Bates - Mafia - Switcher Died Night 4

7. Sakaea - SAURON - Mafia - Killer - Died Night 2

8. Blackhoof HAN SOLO - Town - Hider - Died Night 2

9. Rey Turin

10. Tiinks

11. Amadine

12. Wombat

13. Aiel Heart - JAMES BOND - Town - Vigilante - Died Night 4

14. Locke

15. Poet - INDIAN JONES - Town - Finder Lynched Day 2

16. Pants -

17. Song

18. Nolder Leyrann - CRUELLA DE VILLE - Mafia - Goon

19. Red

20. BG -

 

This is looking like a role heavy game and since there's been 2 RB-type roles and 2 finder-type roles already revealed as town i would not be surprised as to what else may be lurking in there.

[Red2111]

and i bite my thumb at every single one of you that gave me crap over thinking the burning BD was scum; cause look at that, i was right!!!! i love it when my scumdar pings true

 

/patting self on back.

 

 

 

so AH was a Vig, which means she was proabbly responsable for the 2nd killer. still though, if Kae was the killer N2, wonder why the switcher targeted Wombat.

 

 

also, for Des's reoprt, he could have been jailed which might have stopped him from recieving the report even thoguh Turin was kileld that same night. AH's kill went through, so its a good possability thats what happened.

 

 

with Leelou turning out as scum, adn Tina being the scum Rber, i think we should let BG be for the moment and focus else where. Hopefully Des got something good. i still need to catch up, so i'll be posting my thoughts shortly

 

 

[Red2111]

correction, with Tina being the town RBer *shakes head*

[Red2111]

1. Des - Sam - Watcher

9. Rey

10. Tiinks

11. Amadine

12. Wombat - Spiderman - Inventor Doc

14. Locke

16. Pants

17. Song - Tracker

19. Red

20. BG - Rogue - RB

 

Des's Findings

N1: blocked

N2: Wombat -> Blackhoof, Tina, Turin, Sakaea, BG, Leelou.

N3: Wombat -> no one

N4:

 

 

Song's Findings

N1: Kae -> Wombat

N2: Kae ->Ley

N3: BG -> targeted no one

N4:

 

 

Leelou's Targets:

N1: Red/Nol Ley1.0

N2: Wombat/Leyrann

N3: Meesh/Wombat

N4:

 

 

BG's Targets

N1: Des

N2: Wombat

N3: Leelou

N4: Red

 

 

Tina's Targets

N1: n/a

N2: Wombat

N3: BG

 

 

Wombats Protection

N1: Wombat

N2: Amadine

N3: Wombat

N4:

 

 

 

okay so two things right off the bat as im doing my catch up

 

top of my list to pressure is Ama right now because i feel like she's tryign to align herself with me over the scum BD issue. the remaining scum woudl know how leelou would flip, with one flying under the radar liek Ama, i can see the benefit of her speaking out in my favor on this issue. it also allows her to distance from Leelou, if you recall leelou followed up quickly with a "i wish ya'll woudl stop trying to discredit me" post after Ama supported my original theory.

 

 

that said, i'm also uneasy about Song again. same reasons as before, my gut just wont drop this one for some reason

[Red2111]

first let me clarify something. according to the wiki, a jail keeper acts like a healer and a RBer. we know that the jail keeper role in this game won't prevent Des from recieving his report. Turin jailkept Wombat N2 and Des still recieved his report; so this eliminates one possability for what happened.

 

 

 

okay so heres what i found.

 

*Sigh* I wasn't wanting to do this.

 

I know for a fact that someone targeted Wombat last night, so something is fishy with Des seeing no one visit him. What would it say if he was RBed? Would that show up as a no result?

 

Even if no body but Leelou targeted Meesh, Leelou's target would still show up on Des' report. I'm still not completely convinced on Des.

 

in hind sight, we know that AH was telling the truth. this means either her kill was blocked N3 (wombat likley jail-kept) or Leelou was being truthful about her targets and AH's kill got transferred to Meesh.

 

either way, she brings up a very good point regaurding Des's report.

 

 

 

Reds voting process is pretty nonsensical and as I read it, it seems like she's confusing the situation more than helping.

 

can you explain this a bit more Tiink

 

 

As for my results, seeing how everything else is boiling down, I believe it's fairly easy to say I was blocked last night. My best guess is Turin jailed me (again) before dying. I'm not always going to get the same kind of message back from the mod with flavorful texting that helps me guess if I was blocked or not. Red is trying to metagame the mod by doing so. More often than not if someone's blocked they'll usually just get "no results" if they DO get a message back. The first night it was only hinted that I was blocked after I asked what happened, cause night had ended and had not gotten any results yet.

 

As far as others focusing on BG's targets and how they might have helped/hurt town, first of all you're all using the benefit of hindsight in knowing the alignment and role of those he blocked. He was going off the info he had at the time and all of his NA targets made sense imo.

 

to the first, generally when a mod designs a game they uniform their responses for NA's. so yes, imo if you were blocked you'd get the same sort of response you got N1. and a mod normally doesn't flavor NA results Des, they're normally very too the point and clear.

 

 

to the point about BG, it's true we have hindsight in this but if you examine his N1 and N2 actions and the info provided on thread at that time, his NA choices wtill come off as scummy.

 

 

as i've explained before, on N1 you had claimed a very helpful role and BG chose to block you. again on N2, Womby had revealed as an inventor (a potentailly helpful town role) and again BG targets another revealed townie for his block. you can't argue that those two choices are scummy and thats leaving out the hindsight knowledge.

 

 

Problem here is I was blocked. Even if I was lying about who I targeted, it wouldn't even matter... still didn't happen. I don't blame Des for not seeing Wombat self protect, that seems normal to me, he didn't move, but we should have seen AH and Leelou target Wombat at least.

 

see i think differently on this point. it shouldn't matter that the target was himself, a watcher is suposed to see everyone who targets the person their watching. imo this should include self protects.

 

 

 

Hmmm.... Guess I should've used that last kill last night after all....

 

Go town!!!!!!

 

okay, n/m on claiming AH was mostly responsable for the 2nd kills then. this makes since why she asked how many killing roels are normally in a game this size.

 

 

also, while i'm thinking about it; that seems like an awefully high number of scum to be on one team. maybe we're dealing with 2 seperate scum teams instead of a SK.

[Amadine]

I would be looking at myself too Red, for agreeing with you, we never agree in games LOL Highly suspicious in itself - except that i know my alignment LOL

 

And as i said before i was in a similar situation in one of my early game and was coached to use the confusion to appear innocent. In light of Leelou flipping scum i am going to see what i can find from her posts in the game. Back later.

 

 

 

 

 

[Pantsonfire]

I agree with red, Ama just jumped in there and killed tina while I was pushing for time to conclusively prove her innocence....

[Amadine]

Okies - i went back 10 pages (on my pc = 40 posts/page) and i am pretty sure this is all of Leelou's posts. Some i have comments for others not. If anyone spots something odd in there please share.

 

Wombat, you must feel very special to have so many people visit you in 1 night. I am the bus driver. I felt Nol/Ley was scummier than Wombat and I figured with Wombat's claim if he wasn't scum someone would try to kill him. I didn't realize so many people would target Wombat. I'm sorry if this is rushed, but I have to go to an interview in a few minutes. I just didn't want everyone hanging here and saying that I'm laying low. I will answer questions later when I have time.

 

In light of both Ley and Leelou being scum i am almost confident now that Wombat is town.

 

This is from the mafiascum wiki:

 

The Bus Driver is a role that can choose to switch two players each night. Thus, any night action performed on a switched player will affect the other player targeted by the Bus Driver. The Bus Driver's night choices are only valid for that same night

 

So basically I target two people and swap the actions targeted at them for that night.

 

 

 

 

Forgot the link: bus driver

 

 

Ok, so the way this worked is the whole lot of us, including Des targeted Wombat. I also targeted Ley to switch them. Actions were switched. Everyone who targeted Wombat actually targeted Ley. The reason Song is seeing Kae as targeting Ley is because she was driven to Ley from Wombat whom she targeted.

 

 

Des, did you get a report back that it was Wombat or just a list of names?

 

 

I don't trust Kae's claim. I just want to be able to pick things apart when I get home before actually voting. I'm trying to get out of here in a few minutes.

 

distances from Kae

 

 

I'm going to vote Sakaea things with your second reveal do not add up. You should have gotten a reading on Ley if you are indeed a cop.

 

 

more distancing...

 

 

Have fun, des-des!

 

 

I switched Red and Nol/Ley night one. I told you I thought that Nol was acting scummy which was my reasoning for switching him both nights with people I thought would be getting some NK attention. Meesh was more of a gamble tbh. We also don't know who Turin stayed with last night.

 

I really don't like how Red is trying to muddy the water. I need to think things over just a bit more to try to get them all straight in my head before voting.

 

Tina - normally I'm against mass reveals, but there are already so many roles out in the open. I'm still leery of a mass reveal, especially with someone on my scum list suggesting it.

 

agrees with the mass reveal - to look for targets i guess - whilst trying to appear to not agree. Also reads as distancing from Tina - but i am not sure why since Tina flipped town.

 

 

I normally can tell when my sister is scummy. She is on my list for scummy things, but she is not sticking out as a top candidate. BG, I find the list of who you blocked to be more beneficial to the scum team.

 

I also wish everyone that is trying to discredit me would stop. I'm seriously putting you near the top of my scum list. My bus driving has gotten 2 mafia members killed and helped us with combined roles find a third one and most likely a fourth out of all of this mess from night 2.

 

 

Claimed roles

Des - watcher

Tina - role blocker

Leelou - bus driver

Wombat - inventor healer

Song - tracker

BG - role blocker

 

Roles unknown

Rey Turin

Tiinks

Amadine

Aiel Heart

Locke

Pants

Red

 

I needed a list that wasn't a mile long with other info.

 

 

this was the post i did a *raises eyebrow* to if i recall correctly. It was due in response to the "trying to discredit me" comment - which as it turns out she was scum and the discrediting was the correct course. What i am trying to decide now is if she was distancing from BG or trying to throw suspicion at him. *scratches head*

[Amadine]

I agree with red, Ama just jumped in there and killed tina while I was pushing for time to conclusively prove her innocence....

 

If anyone had been going to change votes they would have done so earlier. I had already said i found Tina the more suspicious of the two and voted in accordance with that - was i wrong? Yes - it's not the first time i have been wrong and it won't be the last - but for Light's sake don't tell my husband i admitted to being wrong!!! It would never do for him to think that after 16 years he might actually have a shot at winning an argument

[Pantsonfire]

I believe that it what you refer to as a WIFOM? Talking about the last part in Amadine's post.

 

I will be honest I skimmed it and didn't read the quotes entirely. Was there anything of substance in there? She has mapped Leelou and gave us a question without establishing grounds for anything. Creating a huge post right about the point where some people begin to cast suspicion in her. Attempting to push those posts back? Is that a cum technique? Seems sus to me.

 

Furthermore absolutely no reference to the two people casting thoughts n her direction.....

 

I'll put that afore mention pressure on Amadine now....

 

Vote Amadine

[Pantsonfire]

..... Ignore the last part. I was 'd

[Amadine]

So i should over-react to 2 people casting suspicion on me? What kind of response would you like Pants? Are you fishing for a reveal?

 

And yes, Leelou's posts created a WIFOM for me - i am still undecided in what Leelou's motivations were, but i thought in light of Leelou flipping scum it was a good idea to re-visit her posts considering how loudly she was defended by some.

[Tiinker]

I believe that it what you refer to as a WIFOM? Talking about the last part in Amadine's post.

 

I will be honest I skimmed it and didn't read the quotes entirely. Was there anything of substance in there? She has mapped Leelou and gave us a question without establishing grounds for anything. Creating a huge post right about the point where some people begin to cast suspicion in her. Attempting to push those posts back? Is that a cum technique? Seems sus to me.

 

Furthermore absolutely no reference to the two people casting thoughts n her direction.....

 

I'll put that afore mention pressure on Amadine now....

 

Vote Amadine

 

 

So you didn't bother to read her post and you vote her?

[Tiinker]

Emphasis mine! Epic LOL!

[Pantsonfire]

..... I have had a couple of drinks. LOL good pick up tink....

 

*scum technique

 

 

I'm not "drunk", "drunk" but I think my lack of autocorrect screening has hit home.

 

 

Pants out.

[Pantsonfire]

..... I have had a couple of drinks. LOL good pick up tink....

 

*scum technique

 

 

I'm not "drunk", "drunk" but I think my lack of autocorrect screening has hit home.

 

 

Pants out.

[Pantsonfire]

..... I have had a couple of drinks. LOL good pick up tink....

 

*scum technique

 

 

I'm not "drunk", "drunk" but I think my lack of autocorrect screening has hit home.

 

 

Pants out.

[Pantsonfire]

...... -_-

 

 

Don't even mention it..... I'll redirect my drunk posting away from mafia game.

 

Apologies.

[hazelkrs1]

First of all, I'd like to say hello everyone, back from my cruise, I had a blast!

 

Second of all, start throwing rotten fruit and veggies at me if you want, I wasn't able to submit a NA in time for last night

 

Third of all, that's fairly surprising that Tina flipped town, but at least we ended up bagging another scum. I was somewhat surprised at Leelou flipping mafia, but I'd held that out as a possibility for a while. Maybe all that "Master" business makes me let her off the hook too quick

 

Okay, more game thoughts to follow

 

As for my results, seeing how everything else is boiling down, I believe it's fairly easy to say I was blocked last night. My best guess is Turin jailed me (again) before dying. I'm not always going to get the same kind of message back from the mod with flavorful texting that helps me guess if I was blocked or not. Red is trying to metagame the mod by doing so. More often than not if someone's blocked they'll usually just get "no results" if they DO get a message back. The first night it was only hinted that I was blocked after I asked what happened, cause night had ended and had not gotten any results yet.

 

As far as others focusing on BG's targets and how they might have helped/hurt town, first of all you're all using the benefit of hindsight in knowing the alignment and role of those he blocked. He was going off the info he had at the time and all of his NA targets made sense imo.

 

to the first, generally when a mod designs a game they uniform their responses for NA's. so yes, imo if you were blocked you'd get the same sort of response you got N1. and a mod normally doesn't flavor NA results Des, they're normally very too the point and clear.

 

 

to the point about BG, it's true we have hindsight in this but if you examine his N1 and N2 actions and the info provided on thread at that time, his NA choices wtill come off as scummy.

 

 

as i've explained before, on N1 you had claimed a very helpful role and BG chose to block you. again on N2, Womby had revealed as an inventor (a potentailly helpful town role) and again BG targets another revealed townie for his block. you can't argue that those two choices are scummy and thats leaving out the hindsight knowledge.

 

You're still metagaming the mod again Red. When you say "most mods" or "normally, mods will" you're trying to funnel all mods together into a tight little group when they often will give out NA results differently, set games up differently (it kind of seems like we had 2 town RB'ers in this game, fairly uncommon I'd say), and decide order and outcome of NA's differently. The point is, we don't know for sure how Talya will definitely behave in any of these circumstances so we need to stay away from lines of reasoning which metagame her. After all, one of the main reasons we first started suspecting Tina is because it seemed unlikely there would be 2 town RB'ers.

 

Metagaming the mod is just as bad as tunnel vision, it's a bad habit that town needs to stay away from in order to hone fine scumhunting skills.

 

As for BG, I still don't find his targets to be either fishy or bad judgement on his part. He says he blocked me Night 1, and this was in an attempt to either find scum or possibly vet me. N1 my results wouldn't have necessarily been that conclusive anyways. He did the same thing for Wombat, he was attempting to possibly catch someone in a lie, this was a good use of his NA imo (if he IS a RB'er that is). It would have been different had he blocked a claimed healer or something, but that wasn't the case. Now, Wombat already pointed this out, BG could possibly be mafia but this would be some unusual play on his part if that were the case. However, it would be foolhardy to completely trust him at this point.

 

In other news, I'll go ahead and Vote Amadine. It just seems a little too convenient that she would drop the hammer like that, maybe she was trying to protect BG from getting a hammer vote on him, considering Pants was coming out asking for others to vote for him. I would vote BG, but I still think it would be some odd choices and moves on his part if he were scum. Could be a WIFOM, but we can always speedlynch him later if more info comes to light.

[Turin Turambar]

Glad you had a great time on your cruise Des. *hurls very soft tomato* I couldn't let a free shot pass. RL happens.

 

I agree that Ama's action in coming in and dropping the hammer on Tina looks like it might be trying to protect BG. I think BG is still the better choice atm. To quote BG himself "too many RBs in the kitchen". Even if Ama is protecting BG, that would mean they are on a team together and either would be good. If the majority vote Ama I'm willing to go there but currently I still think BG is the better choice based on the arguements previously made.

 

Vote: BG