If the Dragon Soul were spun out today

[MauricXe]

If the Dragon were born in today's world, what would be his role? What would be his vocation? His education? What country is he from? Ethnicity? His religion? Will there be channeling? (and ignore the Christian, and Islamic prophecy for a minute :) )

 

How about a subsequent birth in the future of the Dragon Reborn? (We need some sort of War of Power today but let's assume he is reborn within 100 years.) Or, perhaps there was a War of Power 3k years in the past and we just don't remember thus there can be a "Dragon Reborn".

 

But with the Dragon Reborn, we need some sort of enemy. In our world, it doesn't necessarily have to be the Dark One/Satan/etc.

 

In WoT, Rand is a simple farm boy on outskirts of a large nation. The equivalent for us would be a farm boy in the middle of Ohio, USA. He would most likely become President of the USA, have an average education, majoring in some sort of technology related field, tall (6'2), moderate Christian, adopted, but I don't know what his ethnicity would be. Perhaps mixed with a middle eastern ethnicity and some other.

 

How about our great enemy? Would it be a clash of the Eastern vs Western worlds?

 

What do you think?

[jsbrads]

The Dragon's duty would not be to fight other people, but I can easily see an evil alien race attacking and he can destroy them a la Titan AE

[yoniy0]

There's no question about it, he would have to be Irish.

 

I thought to joke about his having to crush the chains of Capitalism, but I know how you Americans are sensitive about Socialism.

[Nicook5]

I think I'd have to go with an american. Definitely wouldn't go for president (not really that powerful, and rand never really becomes the 'normal leader' of any country except tear). So... he'll either stop the zombie apocalypse, or end the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie through an illusion of democracy. I disagree with kililng aliens, because they would be like the Seanchan, sent to space via Merlin.

[jsbrads]

like the zombie apocalypse idea

bourg dictatorship? he isn't Abe Lincoln, or Martin Luther King (or any of those commie bast--ds)

I don't see him as president either, but an adventurer (LTT the father, Rand the boy)

[damandred]

He is English. How do I know? Because I am he and he is me, so support the light and send your checks to Damanded@ po.box give me all your f**king money. London.

[John E. Kelley]

But the Dragon already has been Reborn. His name? Chuck Norris.

[MauricXe]

There's no question about it, he would have to be Irish.

 

I thought to joke about his having to crush the chains of Capitalism, but I know how you Americans are sensitive about Socialism.

 

not all of us :)

[Leyrann]

I think his name would be Tamyrlin, and maybe he would have a fight against the DO, where the DO tries to prevent him from descovering channeling, but Rand (Tamyrlin) wins, and discovers channeling. And he closes the hole in Russia (that one of 11 km), that is what in WoT is knows as the Bore.

[OptimusPrime]

Well I imagine he would have been Jesus in the last incarnation, and the modern rebirth would be the second coming or whatever.

 

Ethnicity isnt easy to say. As far as we know, Lews Therin wasnt Aiel, yet the Aiel think of themselves as people of the Dragon, yet dont care about the Dragon Reborn, only the Car'a'carn. Which is the same dude.

 

...

 

The Aiel need to work some stuff out I think.

 

But the Dragon already has been Reborn. His name? Chuck Norris.

 

Indeed. Did you know he visited the Virgin Islands? Theyre now called the Islands...

[Northern Way]

His task would definitely be to bring corrupt leaders and evil dictators to justice, and bring democracy and peace to the world! The Dark one might be some undemocratic place and people, trying to oppose his path to democracy? To me he/she would've been born in Eastern Europe or Africa! I feel like the love is greatest were the days are darkest, and he would be "rand sedai" al the way! Religion? He would follow the light, and repel the dark sides of humanity!

[WhiskyJack]

He will be Zap Brannigan in 31st century.

[SylvanFox]

He would either have to be someone Chuck Norris-ish or John Lennon.

 

Maybe Gandhi (you know, if you consider Rand Sedai).

 

I think Rand would be born in Europe, Asia, or Africa. Somewhere.

 

Ishamael would be born in America. He'd be somebody really powerful and a little whacky, and he'd be a master chess player. He would play both sides of the board, passing himself off as this great heroic guy while secretly scheming for... whatever... Kinda like a regular politician, only not as gross.

 

Everybody else would likely just be regular people, and not heroes.

 

If the OP got involved, I'd probably be hiding in the woods somewhere.

[OptimusPrime]

Ishamael would be born in America. He'd be somebody really powerful and a little whacky, and he'd be a master chess player. He would play both sides of the board, passing himself off as this great heroic guy while secretly scheming for... whatever

 

Like he did at Dumais Wells.

[Goramier]

Who would Rand be if born today?

 

The Wheel of Time takes place in OUR past and future; the wheel spins. We see evidence of this in the series and it's accepted I believe by most theorists. I also think RJ made such a comment at some point. That is the back drop to this answer.

 

The soul that is Rand/Lews and others is a champion of good over evil. Rand knows that his soul had never knelt to the Dark One. He faught him time and time again since the beginning of the wheel, e.i. time. The soul that is currently in the series known as Rand is a man's soul who's life is tortured, powerful and has a clearly lined objective in the world. Despite any protests to the contrary, the Dragon can only be a man and that man has power but suffers for said power. He is the ever balancing wheel rotating, so that he may and will defeat his foes but will take many a pain for doing so. For as much as he is born with power, he is also born to suffer.

 

This leads into a series of questions that must be considered. In the current time of the series, a leader almost always carries two duties as a politician and a military general. We see this clearly with Rand. He is charged with being the leader and also military duties. He is obligated to the people and yet has charge of defending them. This is separate today. Granted the US president is the Commander in Chief but his role is largely separate from actual military strategies. Rand is a President, a King, a Dictator and a General all roled into one. Such a position doesn't exist today in the same context.

 

Therefore, the first question would be: considering his combined role, what type of role would he be in today? Would he be a leader such as a President or Dictator or would he be a General? One could argue that a role combining both still exists but as far as world powers go, no such role can be found.

 

That leads into the second question that must be considered. Would Rand be in charge of a small country or a large one? If his role would be as a General, would it be a small military or a large one? A rebel force or a populous one?

 

In the series, Rand is in charge of everyone. His power carries over to the world. We do not have such a world power today although some may argue it could be the USA. Others may argue that China is in fact a growing power and that his rein would be there. One could also surmise that today, Rand's destiny could/would be marginalized into something much, much smaller since we simply do not face a world threat from the Dark One or dark forces. Perhaps he would be the ruler of Argentina?

 

That leads to another question. In the series we have bad guys. We all know who the bad guys are. We know what their influence is. In our world it is much, much harder to catagorize "enemies." Just take a page out of the terrorist book. In the US, there are "terrorists" as a general word, then there is "Islamic" as a form of saying terrorist, then there is the correction of "extremists" used to reference Islamic peoples but in a much narrower context. Basically the point is, despite having such a well known enemy, even the US cannot agree as to who that enemy actually is. Even then you can continue to muddy up the definition when taken with the different types of people within the different types of groups that the US finds an enemy versus those it finds as a threat versus those it finds must just be watched versus those it deems friendly. With that considered the Islamic religion isn't an enemy and those who follow it generally are not enemies so we cannot catagorize them the way those in Rands world can so catagorize "dark friends" or those who follow the Dark One. Terrorists are small pockets of people who break from the fundementals of whatever religion they come from and form individual groups hell bent on destroying all that do not see the world the way they do. Not even all terrorists are like that....see how complicated it can get today? Even some of the enemies of "the free world" wouldn't even come close to fitting into the very rudimentary definition I just gave it. This is all of course just giving one very rude example of just one of the potentially infinite amount of "enemies" out there.

 

That leads of course to another pattern of thought. Above is about terrorists and religion essentially. There is nothing saying that you could even catagorize that as bad or those within as bad guys. After all, when it comes to religion, one countries terrorist is anothers freedom fighter. One countries rebel is anothers hero. One countries hero secret-assassin is anothers war criminal. Rand's world doesn't have religion like ours does so there is a very large chance that religion would play absolutely no role into the train of thought. But perhaps Rands world representing our future/past is in fact a product of some religion gaining power and domination? Perhaps the series represents a world where religion had previously ceased to exist? Perhaps his world represents a world where one religion become the world religion?

 

This leads of course to another question. If there is no "enemy of the world" today then would Rand's soul even be spun out by the wheel? If no, then does the soul go into a remission of sorts where the Wheel puts a hold on it until more evil times come due? Or perhaps there is something else? We see in the series that Rand has various versions of life. He sees these when he goes to the guiding stones in the second book. Based on these variations perhaps today Rand would simply live a normal life, die a madman, be a President, be a General, be a Dicatator, be a pro athlete, etc... But then again, perhaps those stones didn't represent real worlds but the shadows of the world it copied means that every variation wasn't real and none of the possible lives seen by those who traveled them were real?

 

This takes us back to one of the first concepts in that we are now in our world versus being in the Future/Past. Something never explained in the series is where did the title "Dragon" come from? In the current age, the name/title/term "dragon" is in fact of asian origin. The Chinese invented the dragon based on lore and culture.

 

This leads us to another question; if the title "Dragon" is in fact Chinese then wouldn't the man who carries such a title in fact, be Chinese?

 

The answer to that is...not necessarily. The term "dragon" has become known in virtually every land and every culture in the world. Virtually any people could give such a title. Therefore, the title Dragon doesn't answer the question as to who Rand would be today.

 

Based on the absolute inability to answer the question from anything above, the final question is stated. The label "Kinslayer." That is the only way remaining then to answer who Rand would be today. That title however, was only givin to Lews Therin after he killed his family. The other "Dragons" never had that title. Therefore, that title is completely irrelevant to answer the question of who Rand would be today.

 

I hope this answers your question.

[Suttree]

The soul that is Rand/Lews and others is a champion of good over evil. Rand knows that his soul had never knelt to the Dark One.

 

tarvalon.net Q&A 26 February 2003

 

Q: Was Ishamael lying when he told Rand that the hero of the Light had turned to Shadow in other lifetimes?

RJ: No, he was not. Even those who lie sometimes tell the truth when it serves their purposes.

 

This would be so much simpler if the person asking had said "his soul" instead of HoL. But as Ishamael in text was referring to Rand, not some generic hero of the light, this would indicate Rand's soul has gone over in the past.

[Goramier]

The soul that is Rand/Lews and others is a champion of good over evil. Rand knows that his soul had never knelt to the Dark One.

 

tarvalon.net Q&A 26 February 2003

 

Q: Was Ishamael lying when he told Rand that the hero of the Light had turned to Shadow in other lifetimes?

RJ: No, he was not. Even those who lie sometimes tell the truth when it serves their purposes.

 

This would be so much simpler if the person asking had said "his soul" instead of HoL. But as Ishamael in text was referring to Rand, not some generic hero of the light, this would indicate Rand's soul has gone over in the past.

 

Touche.

[aammondd]

Let me first say this, I am not attempting to bash or promote a religious belief nor am I trying to offend anyone with what follows they are simply observations and opinions based on my limited understanding of the things involved. You can draw your own conclusions but I think if we are to keep the Repeating Wheel/Dragon Metaphore intact there are several Messianic/rebirth prophecies currently in existance. The most notable are the Christian Jesus and the Islamic equivilent , I believe often referred to as the 13th Imam(sp). Im unaware of a Hindu messianic prophesy but their beliefs do contain the most parallel to the rebirthing of souls with WOT that Im aware of.

 

Its my understanding that the pattern of Good vs Evil in a titanic struggle has been played out with variations since Time began. The current understanding (as presented in the books) of the age cycles of the wheel marks the AOL and the current age as being seperate and distinct ages and that the turning of an age is always marked by such large terminal conflicts. We are also told that a complete turn of the wheel generally leaves no trace of its beginning when it returns.

 

Has anyone else thought that the mythology of the wheel as presented at this current time can also be in error. One of the major themes of the books has been how information changes over time and distance. So why do we assume that the true context of the universe revolves around the OP and the Pattern at all. Are they not just representations of the current belief cycle to explain the current circumstance. My purpose in bringing this up is that we may be focusing too greatly on a small segment of the turning of a wheel to draw our parallels.

 

I would suggest however that we look to a larger scope for parrallels to try and predict similarities to who a present day dragon might be.

Under the current structure a present day dragon would have to be rebirth of a past reveared and even feared legend. (My earlier reference to the messianic figures) It would be in response to a hidden and often thought of as mythical malevolence. (Ie Devil Dark one etc)

 

Without going into too much detail I think the Christian and/or Islamic messianic figues would suffice as correct parallels with the "Corrupted" adherents to those philosophies which directly oppose those viewpoints attempting to influnce the culture and world playing the part of the Shadow. Considering the lenght of current recorded human history and how well or poorly records from past time periods have survived I think we could place most of that in a similar timespan as that of the latter part of the AOL and Some period after The collapse of Hawkwings empire. Putting it in that context I think it points us to look at one of the great messianic prophesies for clues as that seems to have the most in common on such a large scale with how the WOT cycle plays out.

 

Just my thoughts considering the original question.

[Suttree]

So why do we assume that the true context of the universe revolves around the OP and the Pattern at all.

 

Because RJ has told us this is the case many times.

[Leyrann]

If the OP got involved, I'd probably be hiding in the woods somewhere.

 

I think I would try if I could channel Saidin myself. If I could, I would help the Champion of the Light, if I could not, I would try to find another way to help the CotL, if I could find no way to do that, THEN I would be hiding in the woods.