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Cairhien Throne


Feral
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  1. 1. Fate of the Cairhien throne after the LB?

    • Elayne will continue to rule Cairhien
    • Elayne will die and the throne will go to someone else
    • Elayne will give up the throne to someone else
    • Cairhien will cease to exist.
    • Elayne will have the throne taken off her
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Just out of interest...

 

Personally I'd like Elayne to die so Cairhien can go to someone else, because it doesn't seem in her personality to give it up otherwise. Not sure I can see her dying though either. I've got a feeling it will end up with someone else ruling it, but as I said I think it will be out of character if Elayne just gives it up.

Edited by Feral
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That would be an awful lot of buildup wasted if anyone but Elayne has the throne. Kinda like someone other than Egwene being the Amirlyn. Just too many pages devoted to making it happen to change things at this point now that they've finally acheived it.

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I've been thinking for some time that the Aelfinn answer 'The two must be as one' may refer to Andor and Cairhien being united - and indeed they are, currently, under a single ruler, Elayne. On my re-read, I came across this, which seems to support my thoughts:

 

'I have heard lectures about the wars Andor fought with Cairhien,' Egwene said dryly. 'Bennae Sedai says you and Cairhien have fought more often than any two nations except Tear and Illian.'

 

So for the Dragon's Peace to hold, I think they have to remain under a single ruler.

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Betcha two bucks it'll be New Galad-land

 

Galad is set for making Mayene his next home. Not only do we have the lovething between him and Berelain, it is also quite likely that berelain would welcome whatever whitecloaks that remains after TG to stay in mayene, as she has mentioned how militarily weak mayene is compared to its neighbour. Which means that Galad does not have to chose, he can have the girl without giving up his command.

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Betcha two bucks it'll be New Galad-land

 

Galad is set for making Mayene his next home. Not only do we have the lovething between him and Berelain, it is also quite likely that berelain would welcome whatever whitecloaks that remains after TG to stay in mayene, as she has mentioned how militarily weak mayene is compared to its neighbour. Which means that Galad does not have to chose, he can have the girl without giving up his command.

 

This is my opinion too, but I'd have liked to see Galad take the Cairhien throne. After the turmoil of LB there might have been an opportunity for him to lessen the influence of the Game of Houses.

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You mean to tell me that Berelain would hitch up to Galad, who has as much claim to the Throne, as Elayne, and say hey babycakes, let's move back to my flyspeck with that pittance of whackadoodles(whitecloaks) you fought in the war with, who are most likely all going to be dead meat by the time TG's said and done.

 

Commonnnnn, really? You could really see that?

 

And, what's with the mention of giving up command being a critical choice? I've never gotten the sense that having command of anyone, or any force, was an important trait to Galad's character.

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Betcha two bucks it'll be New Galad-land

 

Galad is set for making Mayene his next home. Not only do we have the lovething between him and Berelain, it is also quite likely that berelain would welcome whatever whitecloaks that remains after TG to stay in mayene, as she has mentioned how militarily weak mayene is compared to its neighbour. Which means that Galad does not have to chose, he can have the girl without giving up his command.

 

 

 

On the flip side, Berelain hasn't actually been back to Mayene since Rand took the Stone and quite possibly has no idea what the state of her nation is at the moment. Re-reading the series with the events of ToM in mind, her brief period stewarding over Cairhien with Rhuarc really seems to have been placed there for a reason now. Personally, I don't think that reason will turn out to be as significant as setting her up as a co-ruler of Cairhien with Galad, but it makes a good starting point for the Devil's advocate. :wink:

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Eh I can't see Berelain leaving Mayene.

 

 

 

But she already has! No other ruler has spent as much of the series away from his/her nation as Berelain. Considering how weak Mayene is and how rulers have been dropping like flies over the past couple of years, I see this as being highly irresponsible. Moreover, I don't think Berelain would turn down a position of power in Cairhien coupled with the Dragon's support and other incentives like having Galad around. Rand suspected at one point that she was vying for the Sun Throne, and I don't think he would have thought that without some kind of justification.

Edited by Chel
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Eh I can't see Berelain leaving Mayene.

 

 

 

But she already has! No other ruler has spent as much of the series away from his/her nation as Berelain. Considering how weak Mayene is and how rulers have been dropping like flies over the past couple of years, I see this as being highly irresponsible. Moreover, I don't think Berelain would turn down a position of power in Cairhien coupled with the Dragon's support and other incentives like having Galad around. Rand suspected at one point that she was vying for the Sun Throne, and I don't think he would have thought that without some kind of justification.

 

Rand was of the opinion that she's only been hanging around because she wants to prove herself useful so that he doesn't forget his promises about Mayene. She's fought to keep the throne of Mayene and used her own body to do it too. Plus, I think she'd like to be a ruler in her own right. Being Queen simply because she's married to a king doesn't seem like something she'd prefer.

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I think there would be a successful coup or assassination against Galad after a month at most if he gets to rul in Cairhien. He's way too honest, righteous and doesn't like to play Daes Dai'Mar.

 

If it isn't going to be Elayne staying on the Sun Throne, which I doubt, Moiraine is the only realistic option IMO.

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Well Morraine would seem like a much more logical choice the Galad. Galad is all about "right" and duty". Do not see him taking the Throne from his sister by force and no way would Elayne give up the Throne willingly. Now Morraine besides having a rather good claim on the throne (she had been the logical choice when Lamen was killed after all) but also has the advantage that Rand once he finds out she is alive would feel quite beholding to her. Further unlike Galad is a master at the Gsme of Houses but so is her likely consort (Thom). in any case it seems to me that Elayne will likely rule for a time whether she rules for long depends gretly on who survives the last battle (whether enough of troops loyal to her survive the battle to even consider attemting to enforce her claim is a real question in my mind).

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I think there would be a successful coup or assassination against Galad after a month at most if he gets to rul in Cairhien. He's way too honest, righteous and doesn't like to play Daes Dai'Mar.

 

If it isn't going to be Elayne staying on the Sun Throne, which I doubt, Moiraine is the only realistic option IMO.

 

Not so. Dobraine deserves it more than anyone in my opinion, at least among those who might want the throne (Moiraine doesn't really want to be Queen). Of course although I would like Dobraine to end up King, I doubt it'll happen.

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Here's how I arrived at Galad. First we know he'll always do what's right, that's his defining trait, well that and he looks good & he's good with a sword. He's Elayne's half brother, he's Rand's half brother, by all indications he's reforming a fervent para-military organization, and his assumed soon to be lover/wifey/whatever, has at one time governed two different nations.

 

Why Galad could be on the Throne of Cairhien. IF Elayne were to post somebody in charge, whether as steward or total abdicate, would she not look to someone who she knows would always do the right thing, also her own kin, who's claim by lineage to the throne of her own nation, as well as to Cairhien's, was in fact stronger than her own (albeit Andor doesn't do Kings), and who also happened to be the unrealized half brother of the father of Elayne's kiddies?

 

The last part, concerning relation to Rand is irrelevant really as he has no say. In fact, he's alleged to be deadzo petty soon down the line, ergo post-TG it'd be pretty ridiculous to go around saying OH YEAH? WELL I'M FRIENDS WITH A DEAD GUY. SO...YEAH!

 

...

 

If Elayne asked Galad, and it was the right thing to do, he would do it.

Edited by Mat's Spare Hat
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I think there would be a successful coup or assassination against Galad after a month at most if he gets to rul in Cairhien. He's way too honest, righteous and doesn't like to play Daes Dai'Mar.

 

If it isn't going to be Elayne staying on the Sun Throne, which I doubt, Moiraine is the only realistic option IMO.

 

Not so. Dobraine deserves it more than anyone in my opinion, at least among those who might want the throne (Moiraine doesn't really want to be Queen). Of course although I would like Dobraine to end up King, I doubt it'll happen.

I agree that Dobraine deserves it the most, but I was talking about what's likely to happen. Moiraine is a much more important character in the story, and Jordan really went out of his way to make the major characters monarchs of some kind. And if Moiraine wants the Sun Throne, her claim is stronger than Dobraine's. I don't think she wants it, but most of the reasons that made her run away from it in NS are not valid anymore and she may have changed her mind.

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Why Galad could be on the Throne of Cairhien. IF Elayne were to post somebody in charge, whether as steward or total abdicate, would she not look to someone who she knows would always do the right thing,

 

We know she already looks negatively on this trait, in addition it's not always the greatest quality for a ruler. Just look at what happened to Ned Stark...

Edited by Suttree
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Why Galad could be on the Throne of Cairhien. IF Elayne were to post somebody in charge, whether as steward or total abdicate, would she not look to someone who she knows would always do the right thing,

 

We know she already looks negatively on this trait, in addition it's not always the greatest quality for a ruler. Just look at what happened to Ned Stark...

 

 

Although we do see how Galad's doing the right thing saved her rear end before, in the instance of getting her, Elayne & Nynaeve, Thom and Juilin, through that mob and onto some boat or wherever.

 

I'm saying that if it were the situation where it would be 'right' for Galad to be on the Throne, than he would do it. In other words, as mentioned, if Elayne laid it out to him, and he saw the situation as being the right thing to do...yadda yadda yadda, it would be right for Galad to be King because of his relation to Elayne, his natural claim to the title lending credence, he's her half-brother whom she grew up with...

 

That doesn't mean his decisions & doings of right things would make him a better ruler down the line. It does mean that he's a natural fit, whose character suggests that he wouldn't bolt if the question came into play considering the circumstances, as mentioned above.

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Although we do see how Galad's doing the right thing saved her rear end before, in the instance of getting her, Elayne & Nynaeve, Thom and Juilin, through that mob and onto some boat or wherever.

 

 

Of course, Galad started the riots in the first place by having the Whitecloaks fight the Dragonsworn to claim the ship for Elayne and Nynaeve...

 

(All right, yes, it was sort of Nynaeve's fault for asking Masema *and* Galad to keep an eye out for a ship for them and not letting Galad know that Masema's men would also be looking on her behalf. But Galad's "doing the right thing" at whatever cost kicked it up to starting a war.)

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Nah dude I'm pretty sure you've got that wrong. The Mob attacks first, and Galad leads the ladies through to the ship.

 

He didn't start that fire.

 

 

*Alright, I checked it out.

 

The sequence of events is described on pg. 766 in FoH. Masema's people found the ship, and the Whitecloaks seized said vessel & were holding the docks. Uno describes talking to Masema about it, but Masema's whackadoodle and is only about hanging whitecloaks, making Amadicia bend knee if he has to torch the whole place.

 

"I don't know what the Prophet wanted the ship for, but I doubt it was so you could take passage downriver" Nynaeve flinched. "Besides which, I paid the captain your passage while he was still unloading his cargo. An hour later, one of the two men I left to make sure he did not sail without you came to tell me the other man was dead and the Prophet had taken the ship..."

 

Thereby the timeline could have been Galad books passage, Masema's dudes kill a Whitecloak, the Whitecloaks come back & hold the dock. Galad shows up at the circus, posse's up with the ladies, heads to the dock and are attacked first, by a mob which Galad guts up, and then puts said ladies on board and out the gate they go.

 

 

Galad didn't start the riot.

Edited by Mat's Spare Hat
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Nah dude I'm pretty sure you've got that wrong. The Mob attacks first, and Galad leads the ladies through to the ship.

 

He didn't start that fire.

 

Here is the passage...

 

tFoH

 

Nynaeve was in no mood to be affected by a handsome face; her breath hardly quickened at all. "It was you, wasn't it?" she demanded before he even reached her. "You seized the Riversnake, didn't you? Why?"

"Riverserpent," he corrected, eyeing her incredulously. "You did ask me to secure you passage."

"I didn't ask you to start a riot!"

"A riot?" Elayne put in. "A war. An invasion. All begun over this vessel."

Galad answered calmly. "I gave Nynaeve my word, sister. My first duty is to see you safely on your way to Caemlyn. And Nynaeve, of course. The Children would have had to fight this Prophet soon or late."

"Couldn't you simply have let us know the ship was here?" Nynaeve asked wearily. Men and their word. It was all very admirable, sometimes, but she should have listened when Elayne said he did what he saw as right no matter who was hurt.

"I don't know what the Prophet wanted the ship for, but I doubt it was so you could take passage downriver." Nynaeve flinched. "Besides which, I paid the captain your passage while he was still unloading his cargo. An hour later, one of the two men I left to make sure he did not sail without you came to tell me the other man was dead and the Prophet had taken the ship. I don't understand what you are so upset about. You wanted a ship, needed a ship, and I got you one." Frowning, Galad addressed Thom and Juilin. "What is the matter with them? Why do they keep staring at one another?"

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I think there would be a successful coup or assassination against Galad after a month at most if he gets to rul in Cairhien. He's way too honest, righteous and doesn't like to play Daes Dai'Mar.

 

If it isn't going to be Elayne staying on the Sun Throne, which I doubt, Moiraine is the only realistic option IMO.

 

Not so. Dobraine deserves it more than anyone in my opinion, at least among those who might want the throne (Moiraine doesn't really want to be Queen). Of course although I would like Dobraine to end up King, I doubt it'll happen.

I agree that Dobraine deserves it the most, but I was talking about what's likely to happen. Moiraine is a much more important character in the story, and Jordan really went out of his way to make the major characters monarchs of some kind. And if Moiraine wants the Sun Throne, her claim is stronger than Dobraine's. I don't think she wants it, but most of the reasons that made her run away from it in NS are not valid anymore and she may have changed her mind.

 

True, but I think that she herself said that she intended to basically walk the world with Thom at the end of ToM. Honestly, I think as thing stand now, anything other than Elayne remaining Queen is unlikely. Which really irks me for some reason. Maybe it's just that don't really feel she has any right to it, and by that I mean she doesn't deserve the throne, as she really hasn't done anything for Cairhien.

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