Lanfear/Cyndane Strength

[grump]

What if when Moriane tore off the bracelet angreal before she pushed Lanfear through the doorway that is

the reason Cyndane is weaker is that that always was her real strength That in living memory she had always had the angreal The mention of the bracelet there always was kind of out of place

[algspkr]

What if when Moriane tore off the bracelet angreal before she pushed Lanfear through the doorway that is

the reason Cyndane is weaker is that that always was her real strength That in living memory she had always had the angreal The mention of the bracelet there always was kind of out of place

Definately not. Shortly after we first encounter Cyndane, we see a male forsaken (sorry I don't remember who it was) thinking about her, he was informed by a female forsaken that she was weaker than Lanfear had been, women can't sence the added strength of an angreal unless the person with it is using the angreal.

 

Further at the end of WH in Cyndane's PoV we see he thinking that Alivia is stronger than she had been as Lanfear indicating a loss of power.

 

As for the angreal itself we seen in Moraine's PoV when she took out Lanfear that she found that Angreal in Rhubidean and brought it out with all the other stuff. I can't tell you why she left it laying around for a forsaken to play with.

 

Some theories as to what happened are that she was stilled and then healed by a woman. That she had been through the doorway before and one of the things she asked for was to be "as strong as a woman could be", this is supported by her WH PoV, and as punishment for going through a second time her gifts were stripped away. Another possibility is that her strength was unnatural and transmigration did not take the extra strength with her.

[RobertAlexWillis]

I can't tell you why she left it laying around for a forsaken to play with.

 

Because that's what she saw herself doing in the vision in the rings of Rhuidean. Also, believe it or not, it gave her a tactical advantage. It made Lanfear overconfident, and made sure that Moiraine could take away her advantage at the same time she tackled her through the ter'angreal.

[grump]

Lanfear is mentioned as being the strongest of the women chosen and you say she got the braclet from moriane? I will have to re read those sections again

off the top of your head where are they?

 

thanks

[algspkr]

Lanfear is mentioned as being the strongest of the women chosen and you say she got the braclet from moriane? I will have to re read those sections again

off the top of your head where are they?

 

thanks

 

Lanfear being the strongest is in her PoV at the end of Winter's Heart, the bracelet is mentioned in her "death" scene with Moiraine in Fires of Heavan.

[Guest Majsju]

Lanfear being the strongest is in her PoV at the end of Winter's Heart, the bracelet is mentioned in her "death" scene with Moiraine in Fires of Heavan.

 

What Lanfear's POV says in WH is that she notices Alivia is stronger than she herself had been before her vacation in finnland, and thinks that is impossible. And thus correctly assumes Alivia must be holding an angreal.

 

But we lack information of why she thinks it is impossible. It might be because she had been as strong as a woman can possibly be. But it might also be because of the ever present attitude the forsaken has regarding the channelers of the 3rd Age, that no half-trained child can be stronger than a living legend trained at the height of civilization, like Lanfear.

[Wise One]

Verin (font of all inexplicable knowledge) told us she was the second most powerful Forsaken when Lanfear is first properly talked about in TGH (can't remember the chapter off hand), which supports her view of her own power.

[V1zharan]

Ok, don't bash me or anything...but I could have SWORN that it said Cyndane was stronger than Lanfear, not weaker. Can someone please tell me which book/chapter Cyndane is introduced with Moridin so I can get that straightened out?

 

~V1zharan~

[rd2000]

I don't have the books with me atm, but in Winter's Heart, during the part when Rand is cleansing the source and the forsaken are trying to stop him, there is a scene where Cyndane (Lanfear) attacks Alivia. When Alivia strikes at her, Cyndane is shocked and thinks that Alivia is stronger than SHE (Cyndane/Lanfear) was when the Aelfinn held her. She also thinks this is impossible for a woman to be that strong, hence she must be wearing an angreal. You can deduce from her thoughts several things.

 

1. Cyndane is indeed Lanfear after being held for a period of time by the Aelfinn(her POV in other scenes also make this apparent)

 

2. Cyndane is weaker in the power than she was as Lanfear.

 

3. Cyndane thinks that her power level as Lanfear was the maximum a woman could be.

 

Majsju said the same above, I am just (hopefully) spelling it out clearer for you

[Kadere]

Lanfear was the strongest of the Female Forsaken, the BWB tells us so. Cydane is much weaker. In PoD Graendal tells us when Mogehiden nd Cydane show up, they tell us again in WH, and they tell us a third time in KoD at the meeting in the Garden.

[rd2000]

Lanfear is mentioned as being the strongest of the women chosen and you say she got the braclet from moriane? I will have to re read those sections again

off the top of your head where are they?

 

thanks

 

Moiraine placed the bracelet on the wagon and Lanfear later picked it up. I believe Moiraine placed the bracelet for easy retrieval because of her earlier vision of herself fighting Lanfear at the docks, and Lanfear wearing the bracelet. She was attempting to fulfill the possibility she favored (out of three possibilities I believe)

[V1zharan]

I just read the part in KoD where they say Cyndane is weaker, and I also see how I misread it. The way it was worded I had gotten the impression that it said Lanfear was weaker than Cyndane, but now I see what it really meant.

 

~V1zharan~

[DemandredFO]

I believe that Lanfear, while hanging in Finnland with Moraine tried to kill her and the finns killed her cuz killing is bad or they just killed her cuz she's a Foresaken bonded to the Dark One. Then Shai'tan is pissed at her for doing nothing since being freed so he reduces her in strength and mindtraps her to Ishamael. He gave one more chance for 1 of 3 reasons

1. She drilled the bore

2. She's a woman

3. He's heard the saying "Hell Hath No Fury Like A Woman Scorned.

Just my opinion

[algspkr]

I believe that Lanfear, while hanging in Finnland with Moraine tried to kill her and the finns killed her cuz killing is bad or they just killed her cuz she's a Foresaken bonded to the Dark One. Then Shai'tan is pissed at her for doing nothing since being freed so he reduces her in strength and mindtraps her to Ishamael. He gave one more chance for 1 of 3 reasons

1. She drilled the bore

2. She's a woman

3. He's heard the saying "Hell Hath No Fury Like A Woman Scorned.

Just my opinion

He would not have reduced her strength as he wants the Forsaken to be as strong as possible. He bothered to resurect her because there is a general lack of respect for the channellers of the present age. Her punishment was the mind trap.

[grump]

We know the Finns charge for their services I think lanfears body and a portion of her strength were their price to realease her Remember they hung Mat so he would die and live again. Moraine hasnt made a deal because she knowa Mat is comong for her With them a price always has to be paid>

[rd2000]

I believe Lanfear's beauty and strength were a gift from the Aelfinn/Eelfinn from a previous visit. Those gifts were stuck to Lanfear's body(more accurately, her thread in the pattern). When she died, and got another body, she bacame a new or different thread in the pattern, and therefore no longer had those gifts.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Thats an .... interesting idea ....

[SinisterDeath]

The problem with that theory is quite simply, once you've entered there portal once, if you try to again, you simply walk out the other end. So that will not work in this case at all. Moiraine would have gone in, and lanfear out. Instead they both went in. Causing the 'portal' to melt. Leaving no exit for either of them.. And since the fox/snakes have no 'love' for the shadow, they probably killed lanfear. Its not the first time they've 'killed' for sure. I'm pretty sure the 'fox' or was it a 'snake' in rhudian? was wearing a nice ample pair of Lanfear over its head. :D

[RobertAlexWillis]

The problem with that theory is quite simply, once you've entered there portal once, if you try to again, you simply walk out the other end.

 

Well, truthfully, thats not the problem. The ter'angreal doorways and the treaty governing them were made after the Age of Legends, so if Lanfear went to 'Finn-land during the AoL, she wouldn't have used the ter'angreal doorway.

 

The problem is ... thats just a totally unsupported idea.

[rd2000]

The problem with that theory is quite simply, once you've entered there portal once, if you try to again, you simply walk out the other end. So that will not work in this case at all. Moiraine would have gone in, and lanfear out. Instead they both went in. Causing the 'portal' to melt. Leaving no exit for either of them.. And since the fox/snakes have no 'love' for the shadow, they probably killed lanfear. Its not the first time they've 'killed' for sure. I'm pretty sure the 'fox' or was it a 'snake' in rhudian? was wearing a nice ample pair of Lanfear over its head. :D

 

 

 

Mat has been there once, yet obviously he can go there again.

[Bob T Dwarf]

There is no prohibition per se on going more than once.

 

There is a prohibition against using the same twisted doorway to enter more than once.

 

So, it's possible that Lanfear went there previously but did so via a different entrance.

 

Likewise, since Mat will be using the Tower, rather than the doorway, he should be able to reenter Finnland.

[TheDiceAgain...]

This may be a slight tangent from the main line of this discussion but why do we assume that the Eelfinn and Aelfinn live in the same world with each other? I'm not sure it's even important, but it just struck me as odd that people talk about 'Finnland as if it is obviously one world, half populated with foxes and half with snakes...

[Chapmann]

Mainly because Birgitte told Olver that the Tower of Ghenjei was the portal to the world of the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn. I don't think you go through the door in the Tower and then decide which world you want to end up on. So it's probably the same world.

[algspkr]

Didn't Lanfear also say in WH that she was held by both the Finn races?

[olio]

when Lanfear was recreated in shoul gul. the dark lord knew what she had done. and her betrayols. so in my opinion she is less powerful because of the dark lord. he took some away.