Mafia Grievances

[hazelkrs1]

Kind of with Lily, riling up people is fine to some extent, but when you get to things that are personal, you need to stop. You can tunnel, doubt the person's claim, vote them even though they have been seen by the cop and try and get reactions. However, these are all inside the game. When you get to talking about them as a person, you need to stop.

 

I think there's all kinds of times that people take stuff personal, or think that something was meant in a personal context, when it wasn't.

 

For instance I see so many people get uber defensive when being called out on inactivity, even tho they were being inactive. After explaining that they're never active on the weekends, or have a personal life unlike the person accusing them of being inactive, they tend to get so riled up. But the fact is, mafia is no fun when there's not enough activity. Calling someone out on inactivity is completely fine, and people need to learn how to take those comments and learn to voice their opinions more often, or just not sign up for a game that takes up that much time.

 

I have fun when I win

 

 

and you don't when you lose?

 

Not as much

 

Anyways the statement was made in jest, but of course I enjoy the game more when I win. If I lose, but it's because the other side played very skillfully, I still appreciate the game and enjoy it.

 

I'm not a fan of mafia teams using lurking as a strategy then winning or coming close to winning. I'm also not a fan of big game hunting, using real life excuses to try and gain town sympathy, or to justify inactivity, or .... nah that's about it. Those are the only mafia strategies I'm not a fan of.

 

But me not being a fan of them doesn't mean they aren't justifiable strategies. I'd just rather not use them myself when I'm mafia, it feels like it cheapens the victory if I do

[hazelkrs1]

However, there's a point where if you go too far that anyone, not just mafia will react. That is the stopping point.

 

Can you think of an example of something in a past game where someone "went too far"?

 

I also wanted to weigh in on the whyme=fryme thing Rand.

 

It's a completely legitimate, and surprisingly effective tool, in finding and lynching scum. If you look at the wiki for the move, the basis of it is that mafia is most interested in self-preservation, whereas as town's main priority is in catching scum, which can occassionally be accomplished even if you die.

 

So it's not that you look bad by just asking about the case on you. But if your only focus in the game seems to be defending yourself, instead of casing others, then not only does it look scummy, but it also means that the town doesn't risk as much by losing you, since essentially you're playing as an inneffective townie

[peacesells]

I'm in agreement with Desp for the most part here. (don't lynch me for buddying up to you please. :P)

 

You can never tell how the written word will affect someone. Man, I've said things I've considered downright harmless and been admonished. I've been shocked at some of the reactions things I've written have garnered. I was pretty PO'd in the star wars game on MJ for that. I got over it..but at the time I was mad.

 

Anyway, my point is it's an unpoliceable idea. Cause with so many different kinds of people here, not to mention several language barriers in the global forum I don't see how you can try and dictate tactics and anything less that overly blatantly obvious.

 

I approach everything in the game thread as game play...so this is where I disagree with Desp. Whining about people calling you out for inactivity is game play. So is calling people out who are usually inactive during the weekends. It's tactics. If you get upset but either side of that...your skin is too thin.

[RandA lThor]

I'm in agreement with Desp for the most part here. (don't lynch me for buddying up to you please. :P)

 

You can never tell how the written word will affect someone. Man, I've said things I've considered downright harmless and been admonished. I've been shocked at some of the reactions things I've written have garnered. I was pretty PO'd in the star wars game on MJ for that. I got over it..but at the time I was mad.

 

Anyway, my point is it's an unpoliceable idea. Cause with so many different kinds of people here, not to mention several language barriers in the global forum I don't see how you can try and dictate tactics and anything less that overly blatantly obvious.

 

I approach everything in the game thread as game play...so this is where I disagree with Desp. Whining about people calling you out for inactivity is game play. So is calling people out who are usually inactive during the weekends. It's tactics. If you get upset but either side of that...your skin is too thin.

 

I think that's what Despo was saying and I agree with that. I am talking about insults that are directly at a personal level that sometimes don't even have to do with mafia.

[hazelkrs1]

I'm in agreement with Desp for the most part here. (don't lynch me for buddying up to you please. :P)

 

You can never tell how the written word will affect someone. Man, I've said things I've considered downright harmless and been admonished. I've been shocked at some of the reactions things I've written have garnered. I was pretty PO'd in the star wars game on MJ for that. I got over it..but at the time I was mad.

 

Anyway, my point is it's an unpoliceable idea. Cause with so many different kinds of people here, not to mention several language barriers in the global forum I don't see how you can try and dictate tactics and anything less that overly blatantly obvious.

 

I approach everything in the game thread as game play...so this is where I disagree with Desp. Whining about people calling you out for inactivity is game play. So is calling people out who are usually inactive during the weekends. It's tactics. If you get upset but either side of that...your skin is too thin.

 

Oh yeah whining can def be gameplay as well, I wasn't saying I don't like that. I was showing Rand how people seem to take some stuff personal, that really isn't.

 

I don't like how people use rl excuses to justify inactivity or get sympathy from town tho. Like if someone hasn't posted in a while, then comes in and says they've had a headache all day or something, when it turns out they were lurking and didn't like being called out on it.

 

It doesn't upset me so much as disappoint me. If you can't actually be active and manipulate the game enough to pull out a victory, you shouldn't have to resort to cheaper tactics to win imo. I don't think those tactics should be disallowed; they're legitimate enough, I just don't like people using them.

 

I think that's what Despo was saying and I agree with that. I am talking about insults that are directly at a personal level that sometimes don't even have to do with mafia.

 

Once again, can you think of any example that supports what you're saying? I think I've played a fair amount more mafia than you, and I've seen things get heated between players, but never actually seen someone literally make some kind of personal insult.

[Alanna]

Just because you've never seen it doesn't mean it hasn't happened And no, I'm not going to go digging up old games and specifically call someone out for being a jerk. Other people can do so if they want to.

 

I'm not talking about joke votes early in the game, i am talking about legitimate actual votes. And why should you need to hide it, if I am going to express my opinion, I am going to do it. Hiding is for scum.

 

First of all, I kind of agree with you about whyme fryme, if I'm understanding it correctly anyway - of course you can ask someone to explain why they're voting you. That said, I completely disagree with this statement here. If someone doesn't explain their vote on you, and even if they refuse to do so, that does not mean they're scum. Hiding is sometimes for town, not just scum. Your attitude here towards how townies should behave is very noble and all, but mafia is not a noble game, even when you are town. Town doesn't know who other town is and therefore can only trust themselves. They sometimes have as much reason to be secretive, to keep their motives hidden, and yes, even to lie, as mafia does sometimes. It's another reason why auto-lynching for lying is dumb (I know Nolder hates that :P)

 

I just wanna rant about something really quick, and I'll have a MUCH longer post about something else once I've seen another game end.

 

Anyhoo. "Outside the spirit of the game". I'm so sick and tired of seeing this. It's become such a kneejerk reaction to try and make someone else look bad.

 

I mean, the spirit of the game to me seems to be....... winning... the game. Who cares if you use tactics others find questionable? If they're effective, then it doesn't matter what they think. If they're not effective, then they're just stupid tactics, it doesn't matter whether or not they're "outside the spirit of the game". Too many people are holding up the game of mafia on this pedestal like it's some sacred game. It's a game where you get to pretend to kill eachother.

 

What's so sacred about that?

 

Feelings will get hurt, people will take stuff personal, blah blah blah.

 

If a mod finds a certain tactic to be outside the spirit of the game, they'll make sure to say something about it in the rules, or weigh in on it while the game is going on.

 

We need to stop using this bullcrap phrase so much

 

I'm going to rant a little too, because apparently I disagree with some of what you say, Des

 

Problem is, I have weighed in as a mod sometimes, and get called out for being a sissy by own players. Doesn't stop me from saying what I think needs to be said, but it is NOT totally on me as the mod to prevent players from needlessly being jerks. That's on you to not be a jerk (that's a general you, not actually you Despo :P).

 

There's nothing "sacred" about it, but it's a freakin' game. Which is supposed to be fun. Unfortunately, this is an issue that's never gonna get reconciled, because people find different things fun. That's what the argument really is here. You find it more fun when people get super competitive, even if takes them over the line sometimes. I, and other people like Lily, don't always find that fun. Unfortunately, there's really no solution, except for me stop playing mafia, and I do play much less for that very reason. I don't find it as fun anymore, the way it's played by a lot of people here. I'm not saying you're playing wrong, or badly, or that you should stop playing like that. I'm not judging here. But I do kind of wish people would simply acknowledge that some of us don't enjoy that instead of just labeling us as whiners.

 

And for anyone who wonders why I would play at all, because "that's just how mafia is" - well, that's how it is now. It wasn't always like that here on DM. And there's really no way I can explain how it used to be different, I've tried, and the only people who understand are people like Lily, who used to play a lot back when I used to. But there's no going back, I suppose. Nevertheless, I like playing enough that I still dip my toe in the waters sometimes. Unfortunately, I don't learn, because usually by the end of the game I'm sick of it all again.

 

And after all, there is that phrase- all's fair in love and mafia. Doesn't really seem like one of those phrases that leaves room for interpretation. It's literally saying that anything goes pretty much.

 

I don't get this argument. Just because a phrase exists doesn't make it true or absolute.

 

However, there's a point where if you go too far that anyone, not just mafia will react. That is the stopping point.

 

Agreed. Sometimes when you piss people off, it's just because you pissed them off. And has nothing to do with whether someone is mafia or not. Honestly, I'd like to see people keep a tally and tell me how many of the people they've gone after and pissed off turned out ot be mafia. Probably a good number are townies, too.

 

Look, I'm not saying it's not a viable tactic. But I think it gets way overused these days, and I think it's not always as effective as people think it is. I think there are people like Red and Ape, who are really good at it. And then I think there are a slew of new people who see how they play, try to emulate it, don't really understand how to, and just end up being jerks for no reason. Red used to be notable for playing that way. Nowadays, she's one of many who do it. Unfortunately, most of those many don't do it as well as she does.

 

(FYI, Des, this is not directed at you personally at all - not the above point, or any of this post. I just happen to disagree with a lot of your points :P)

[hazelkrs1]

So you think I'm a jerk, Alanna. Got it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LilyElizabeth]

I agree with pretty much everything Alanna said. Mafia on DM isn't what it used to be, and we can't change that, but it isn't as much fun for me, and I'm probably only going to play rarely if at all, from now on. I'm not judging, just expressing my feelings on the topic.

 

Here are some examples that I find outside the spirit of the game, or poor gamesmanship in general:

 

I have a mental illness. If I were to post that I was having trouble focusing on the game that day, when in fact, I was fine, that would be poor gamesmanship, and an insult to those who have these kinds of problems.

 

On the other hand, if I were to post that and it was for real (I don't make those kinds of posts at all, by the way, but let's just say I did...) and someone were to say "She's lying. Let's lynch her" that would be poor gamesmanship. There's nothing wrong with cutting someone some slack when they have a legit reason.

 

I actually don't have a problem with personal insults. I play at JetNation, after all. But these are some examples of what I think are outside the spirit of the game, or any game.

[Alanna]

So you think I'm a jerk, Alanna. Got it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

LOL I kept using the word "you" when I was typing that up, and I kept thinking, well, I don't mean you, you Just, ya know. A general you

[hazelkrs1]

Serious response:

 

Of course I don't think there are people that disagree with me and don't enjoy mafia the way it is played today. I happen to find a hyper-competitive atmosphere somewhat exhilarating, obviously others wouldn't. But I dislike the "outside of the spirit of the game" thing. It's become the rote response for when someone doesn't like a tactic because they find it questionable. But if tactics like those are allowed, then they are definitely within the scope of the game.

 

And that phrase (all's fair in love and mafia) isn't automatically true, correct. But it's been around far longer than when I first started playing mafia on DM. And if a phrase like that became common use, it's prob because a lot of people thought it to be true.

 

And it's still better at least than "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen", which is similarly applicable.

 

One more thing. I DO kinda feel like the part about people mimicking Red and Mynd's playstyle was in part directed at me. Just gonna say this, I don't think my playstyle mirrors either Red's or Mynd. It prob comes closer to Mynd, but either way I think it's my own. It's basically the same way I played when I played mafia irl. Is it aggressive? Of course. But not all aggressive playstyles are the same. I don't try to be any other player than myself, and I've found it to be fairly effective. There's been many times that I've been wrong about things, but that's why I try to stay away from getting tunnelvision (I'll get to that later).

 

But for some reason I believe a fair amount of other players think I can be a bully. I've never tried to bully another player on purpose, but I think the fake swagger and braggadocio gets confused for people thinking I'm actually that overconfident.

 

I'm not. I'm actually far more insecure irl, I just find it's kind of fun to rp a somewhat a-holish, somewhat charming dude on DM. I think the few who do see the braggadocio for what it is have understood me a bit more, that I do just try to get a rise out of people sometimes. Not to be a dick, but because it can generally be amusing at times, and not just for myself.

[hazelkrs1]

I agree with pretty much everything Alanna said. Mafia on DM isn't what it used to be, and we can't change that, but it isn't as much fun for me, and I'm probably only going to play rarely if at all, from now on. I'm not judging, just expressing my feelings on the topic.

 

Here are some examples that I find outside the spirit of the game, or poor gamesmanship in general:

 

I have a mental illness. If I were to post that I was having trouble focusing on the game that day, when in fact, I was fine, that would be poor gamesmanship, and an insult to those who have these kinds of problems.

 

On the other hand, if I were to post that and it was for real (I don't make those kinds of posts at all, by the way, but let's just say I did...) and someone were to say "She's lying. Let's lynch her" that would be poor gamesmanship. There's nothing wrong with cutting someone some slack when they have a legit reason.

 

I actually don't have a problem with personal insults. I play at JetNation, after all. But these are some examples of what I think are outside the spirit of the game, or any game.

 

If someone knew that you really did have a mental illness (I actually didn't, until reading this post ), that would be totes jerkface of them to say that, you're right.

 

But do you think the overly competitive atmosphere of DM mafia is what has turned you off? Or is it less spam and tongue in cheekedness? I really wish we could have more of the old schoolers play with the newbloods still, and I def respect your mafia skills Lily

[peacesells]

On the other hand, if I were to post that and it was for real (I don't make those kinds of posts at all, by the way, but let's just say I did...) and someone were to say "She's lying. Let's lynch her" that would be poor gamesmanship. There's nothing wrong with cutting someone some slack when they have a legit reason.

 

I actually don't have a problem with personal insults. I play at JetNation, after all. But these are some examples of what I think are outside the spirit of the game, or any game.

 

I disagree somewhat here. If we had the all knowing eye of knowing when someone is having RL issues, then sure, reacting poorly to those statements would be horrible. But, the fact is, players have faked it. For awhile here I could swear migraines were contagious around here.

 

IMO, if you have issues like this, it's just best not to bring them up in game. If you've have been inactive for legit outside reasons just state you haven't had the opportunity to play and move. TBH, that's gonna be more effective than coming up with the various medical excuses I've seen deployed around here. I will take every post you make as game play. I will never consider it anything other than that. I've see too many fake emo and fake headaches etc... to have any faith in those comments.

 

So, if you choose to post those statements in game, you should do so with the full understanding that some may not believe you and react as such. We can't read you mind..heck, that's the exact essence of this game. You can't blame others for not doing so.

 

TBH here, I think a large number of players fail to account that this is a group game and get a bit myopic at times. Just because this affects me this way so and so is wrong. If players can just think about the intentions of others instead of focusing on words that you may be particularly sensitive to I think certain situations will be handled better. After all, you have to first believe that one of your friends here on DM desire to be hurtful to you. I just don't think that is the case. I know for my part I don't want to hurt anyone's feeling. I also know that things I've said in the past have, even though when I typed the words I couldn't fathom how they'd be hurtful.

 

One last thought. We are responsible for our own welfare. To be part of a society we not only have to be respectful to others but we also need to not be quick to take offense.

[bgrishinko]

FWIW, I didn't think of you Despo when someone mentioned people trying to mimic Red/Mynd. I see you as your own style that is unique on its own.

 

I grew up on mafia thinking that logic and epic strategy was the way to win. I feel like a lot of the veteran players played this way and that's how I wanted to play. Mafia used to feel like an elaborate game of Chess and now it feels like Survivor. It feels more like now that we are on a reality TV show where we vote people off the island for not liking them and end up taunting each other endlessly rather than being evil super geniuses or good super geniuses respectively.

 

This isn't ragging on anyone, but the general shift in tone. I'm still having fun. Though, in order to meet my quota of logic and strategy I've moved more towards modding.

[Red2111]

Despo, i dont see you as immitating my playstyle, except for the WoT thing which you totally stole from me

 

 

getting people on the defensive happens with my casing, but generally more so because of how agressive i am when i case. i dont go after a person to purposefully get them on the defensive nor do i go after them for things outside the game thread i'm playing in.

 

i always keep the pressure and casing to things said within the game thread i'm pressuring them on. i'll poke about activity or previous meta from games, but with casings and pressure and trying to get lynch style pressure on them i try to always stick to the current game and what their currently saying inside the specific game thread. this way i get as much info as possible and their able to truely explain themselves, argue back and so i can help judge if i've truely dug up a scumster or if i'm casing a townie.

 

 

this is one reaosn i disagree so much with cases built on meta. you can't argue or defend yourself agaisnt them.

 

 

 

as for against the spirit of the game. i dont think this is putting the game on a pedistal, and more so realizing that becuase of the nature of this game and that we're all competitive, by keepign some things against the spirit of the game keeps game related things from being drawn into other areas than the game itself; and it prevents those who will do anything to win from cheating in ways.

 

one good aspect was soemthign i did a while back, i think it was in one of Lilys games. it was LYLO and i was town. i happened to be on when the game went from Lynch, to night to Day. i looked at peopels profiles and saw who was on and who wasn't and was able to use that as a way to push a lynch against soemoen and the town won the game due to this. this is a good example of something innocent but that is also agaisnt the spirit of the game.

 

 

 

We have to remember that it is a game, and some things just go too far, in my opinion. We want to make sure people are having fun, or what's the point? For me, it's not about winning. It's about having fun.

 

^ this. winning the game is all well and good, but its not worth losing friendships over.

[LilyElizabeth]

Des, Bg put it in better words than I could have. First I was turned off by the inactivity here. But now it's also the no-holds-barred attitude that people are touting. I believe there should be limits, and they should be respected.

 

Peace, that's why I never mention my illness issues in game, but I was just saying if someone did I'd like to see some slack cut for them. Just some time allowed for them, not letting them off the hook entirely if they were scummy. That would be wrong. And people lying about health issues or real life emergencies and things like that disgusts me. A simple "I can't address this right now, but I'll do it as soon as I can" should be adequate. And then heaven help them if they don't address it later.

 

Des, I'm surprised you didn't know. I've made no secret of it. I'm bipolar, and when I'm leaning toward mania, it's very hard for me to concentrate.

[LilyElizabeth]

I also want to say that if this is how you guys want to play here on DM, go for it. It's just not what I want to be part of.

[Alanna]

One more thing. I DO kinda feel like the part about people mimicking Red and Mynd's playstyle was in part directed at me. Just gonna say this, I don't think my playstyle mirrors either Red's or Mynd. It prob comes closer to Mynd, but either way I think it's my own. It's basically the same way I played when I played mafia irl. Is it aggressive? Of course. But not all aggressive playstyles are the same. I don't try to be any other player than myself, and I've found it to be fairly effective. There's been many times that I've been wrong about things, but that's why I try to stay away from getting tunnelvision (I'll get to that later).

 

I'm sorry you feel that way, but I said it wasn't directed at you and I can absolutely say again that it was not. I was not thinking of you at all. I definitely was thinking of some specific people when I say that, and I promise you are not one of them. I actually haven't played much with you Des - especially recently, maybe 1 or 2 games? - and I don't have much of a handle on your play style right now. I was thinking more of people I played with on a more regular basis a few months ago, some of who are still playing a lot right now. You did not come to mind.

 

Also, I said Ape, not Mynd. Mynd actually plays in a totally different style, in my opinion. He can be dogged, but I wouldn't say he has that bulldog like way that Red does. And besides, he goes out of hsi way post-game to make sure anyone he went after is okay and wasn't offended.

[Alanna]

I disagree somewhat here. If we had the all knowing eye of knowing when someone is having RL issues, then sure, reacting poorly to those statements would be horrible. But, the fact is, players have faked it. For awhile here I could swear migraines were contagious around here.

 

IMO, if you have issues like this, it's just best not to bring them up in game. If you've have been inactive for legit outside reasons just state you haven't had the opportunity to play and move. TBH, that's gonna be more effective than coming up with the various medical excuses I've seen deployed around here. I will take every post you make as game play. I will never consider it anything other than that. I've see too many fake emo and fake headaches etc... to have any faith in those comments.

 

I'm curious, how do you know these were fake things? Did players actually admit to faking migraines?

[peacesells]

I disagree somewhat here. If we had the all knowing eye of knowing when someone is having RL issues, then sure, reacting poorly to those statements would be horrible. But, the fact is, players have faked it. For awhile here I could swear migraines were contagious around here.

 

IMO, if you have issues like this, it's just best not to bring them up in game. If you've have been inactive for legit outside reasons just state you haven't had the opportunity to play and move. TBH, that's gonna be more effective than coming up with the various medical excuses I've seen deployed around here. I will take every post you make as game play. I will never consider it anything other than that. I've see too many fake emo and fake headaches etc... to have any faith in those comments.

 

I'm curious, how do you know these were fake things? Did players actually admit to faking migraines?

 

A few people have admitted to it.

[鲍勃不是我的名字]

I hate bastard mods! Checkout out the recent game http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/74059-advanced-wot-mafia-the-great-hunt-game-over/

[peacesells]

that wasn't bastard modding.

[hazelkrs1]

Des, Bg put it in better words than I could have. First I was turned off by the inactivity here. But now it's also the no-holds-barred attitude that people are touting. I believe there should be limits, and they should be respected.

 

Peace, that's why I never mention my illness issues in game, but I was just saying if someone did I'd like to see some slack cut for them. Just some time allowed for them, not letting them off the hook entirely if they were scummy. That would be wrong. And people lying about health issues or real life emergencies and things like that disgusts me. A simple "I can't address this right now, but I'll do it as soon as I can" should be adequate. And then heaven help them if they don't address it later.

 

Des, I'm surprised you didn't know. I've made no secret of it. I'm bipolar, and when I'm leaning toward mania, it's very hard for me to concentrate.

 

I've heard overt references to being bipolar before, but I assumed they were tongue in cheek playful remarks.

 

As for the limits thing, I do think that there is this natural reaction to someone getting offended that everyone then assumes that person is getting emo or getting hyper defensive, when they might honestly have just been offended. In general I think people are too quick to embellish reactions here, I remember when I first started people were constantly saying I was overreacting when I was as calm as can be, but the fact that I'm a bit wordy made some think I was flailing.

 

I really do try to be a little more forgiving of someone if they seem like they are having a legitimate reaction to something that they feel is offensive. But I also think that people take some things defensively when they probably shouldn't. Like I said, when I first started playing mafia here at DM over a year ago the general disclaimer was that you had to have a little bit of thick skin to play. You obviously have some thick skin Lily, you play over at JN (altho they treat women over there ENTIRELY different than they treat guys), so it just kinda seems like there might also be something else here at play.

 

Do you think part of it is that a lot of older players don't play anymore, so you can't enjoy the same level of comfort with everyone?

 

One more thing. I DO kinda feel like the part about people mimicking Red and Mynd's playstyle was in part directed at me. Just gonna say this, I don't think my playstyle mirrors either Red's or Mynd. It prob comes closer to Mynd, but either way I think it's my own. It's basically the same way I played when I played mafia irl. Is it aggressive? Of course. But not all aggressive playstyles are the same. I don't try to be any other player than myself, and I've found it to be fairly effective. There's been many times that I've been wrong about things, but that's why I try to stay away from getting tunnelvision (I'll get to that later).

 

I'm sorry you feel that way, but I said it wasn't directed at you and I can absolutely say again that it was not. I was not thinking of you at all. I definitely was thinking of some specific people when I say that, and I promise you are not one of them. I actually haven't played much with you Des - especially recently, maybe 1 or 2 games? - and I don't have much of a handle on your play style right now. I was thinking more of people I played with on a more regular basis a few months ago, some of who are still playing a lot right now. You did not come to mind.

 

Also, I said Ape, not Mynd. Mynd actually plays in a totally different style, in my opinion. He can be dogged, but I wouldn't say he has that bulldog like way that Red does. And besides, he goes out of hsi way post-game to make sure anyone he went after is okay and wasn't offended.

 

Well, I heard through the grapevine that some people think I'm a bully in mafia games.

 

And I think my style is slightly similar to Mynd's because I use the same kind of self-inflation thing he does, just in a diff manner. I think he does it on a much larger scale than I do, and the fact that he gets away with it so smoothly and I seem to rub others the wrong way apparently tells me I'm not as charming as I'd like to believe

 

[Alanna]

Actually, now that I think about it, I think you're right that your style is a bit like Mynd's. But like I said, he's not the kind of player I was talking about anyway. I wouldn't really call his playstyle aggressive.

[RandA lThor]

I also want to say that if this is how you guys want to play here on DM, go for it. It's just not what I want to be part of.

 

So I won't see you in mafia games modding or playing?

[Nolder]

So many things I want to respond to...