Mafia Grievances

[Kathleen]

I find it hard to play because people always go after the ones who do. They say they are going after the ones who look like they are 'leading the town' or 'playing aggressively' which are both good scum tells, if used properly. But here they seem to just think anyone who is the first or most actively trying to play is mafia doing the above. I'm sorry, but the mafia is gonna support off topic babble and distracting from the game, they aren't /always/ going to be the ones who are playing. Though a lot of them do because they want to have fun with their roles.

[Leelou]

What I've been noticing is that people are content to just get a majority vote before deadline and don't actually play until deadline. 5 hours used to be enough time to turn a vote around. Right now I'm running a non hammer game to try to get people to change up play style and it just seems to be like hours sit around until deadline with no activity because everyone voted instead of talking about possibilities or spinning stories to get people to change their vote.

[Sedai]

Agreed, but there is a line. If you...say....lie about being a Cop as a roleless townie and then force the Doc to protect you, thereby opening them up for a NK......that is not responsible townie play.

 

Fun? Probably, for the liar. But not for the town if the Doc is NKed and then the real Cop is without backup when he/she gets guilty readings.

 

 

 

I'm playing Devil's Advocate for you here, Lily. You make bold plays that are still townie plays -- but other people don't necessarily do that, and while it can sometimes work out crazy good (like JVoR did last season on JN)....it can crash & burn (like Jack's attempt in his 1st JN game).

 

It worked, people just didn't listen. I found lily. :p

[Sedai]

What I've been noticing is that people are content to just get a majority vote before deadline and don't actually play until deadline. 5 hours used to be enough time to turn a vote around. Right now I'm running a non hammer game to try to get people to change up play style and it just seems to be like hours sit around until deadline with no activity because everyone voted instead of talking about possibilities or spinning stories to get people to change their vote.

 

I've worked out an idea to help this out. I'm not going to give a deadline. Jus a four hour warning before a lymph runs random.

[Vambram]

 

I've worked out an idea to help this out. I'm not going to give a deadline. Jus a four hour warning before a lymph runs random.

 

 

 

What is a lymph ?

[Kivam]

What I've been noticing is that people are content to just get a majority vote before deadline and don't actually play until deadline. 5 hours used to be enough time to turn a vote around. Right now I'm running a non hammer game to try to get people to change up play style and it just seems to be like hours sit around until deadline with no activity because everyone voted instead of talking about possibilities or spinning stories to get people to change their vote.

 

I've worked out an idea to help this out. I'm not going to give a deadline. Jus a four hour warning before a lymph runs random.

 

I'd love to see if that works.

 

Or you could just limit who you allow to sign up for your games. Personally, I'm never going to let a guy who is content with a random lynch play in my games. Folks like Tiinker, on the other hand, are more than welcome.

[Kathleen]

I was thinking of having a short deadline with the chance of extensions. I know some people use the deadlines to better plot what they will say and when.

[Verbal32]

Agreed. I didn't mean town plays, I guess. I like to see scum try to do more. One thing that frustrates me is how little people actually play on DM now. They post, but there's not as much content going on as there should be. That isn't really fun.

I find it hard to play because people always go after the ones who do. They say they are going after the ones who look like they are 'leading the town' or 'playing aggressively' which are both good scum tells, if used properly. But here they seem to just think anyone who is the first or most actively trying to play is mafia doing the above. I'm sorry, but the mafia is gonna support off topic babble and distracting from the game, they aren't /always/ going to be the ones who are playing. Though a lot of them do because they want to have fun with their roles.

 

I think the balance lies somewhere in the middle here....

 

 

 

 

Agreed, but there is a line. If you...say....lie about being a Cop as a roleless townie and then force the Doc to protect you, thereby opening them up for a NK......that is not responsible townie play.

 

Fun? Probably, for the liar. But not for the town if the Doc is NKed and then the real Cop is without backup when he/she gets guilty readings.

 

 

 

I'm playing Devil's Advocate for you here, Lily. You make bold plays that are still townie plays -- but other people don't necessarily do that, and while it can sometimes work out crazy good (like JVoR did last season on JN)....it can crash & burn (like Jack's attempt in his 1st JN game).

 

It worked, people just didn't listen. I found lily. :p

 

But in another game you then confirmed the mafia to be town...and they won. So when you try something crazy and it works, people remember the disasters, and then ignore your advice.

 

I like your 'out there' style of play, but once it blows up in your face a couple of times, people get nervous trusting you.

[Verbal32]

I was just reading up on some of the current games - my God. I think I'd pull my hair out with all the talk of random lynches being ok and people posting without actually saying anything. Scum do it, but town too?

 

This is why I don't play much on DM anymore.

[Niniel]

I hope that all of you oldies don´t run away from DM mafia because then it will be boring for us newbies. (Yes, I have played some games now but I still consider myself a newbie.) I think it´s important to be in active games when you are new so you get used to that. When I played Alanna´s Aiel - Seanchan mafia I had never experienced a day one lynch so I thought that random mk was the way it usually is. Alanna told us that was not so and posted some links to old games. That was great.

 

I don´t know why many players are so silent. Sure, rl stuff gets in the way sometimes, but it´s annoying when four or five players in each game are inactive. I think many newbies are quiet because they don´t know what to do yet and that is acceptable in the first games. Mostly I think many forget that it´s just a game and that it´s meant to be fun. Is it fun to be quiet for three days and then throw in a vote?

[LilyElizabeth]

Tina, I'm glad to see you joining in on the discussion. Jack and I have talked about this and we are going to try to fix this problem by staying active and both playing and modding games here on DM. I do think Kivam is on to something, though, with not allowing certain players who are known to be inactive in his games. I hate to be that way, but I'm going to start my own list of those players and not allow them in my games.

[Hybrid]

I was just reading up on some of the current games - my God. I think I'd pull my hair out with all the talk of random lynches being ok and people posting without actually saying anything. Scum do it, but town too?

 

This is why I don't play much on DM anymore.

 

You have hair to pull out? *ducks*

 

But seriously, I agree 100%. Being less active is fine as long as you are posting substance (not everyone can post every two or three posts after all). Posting fluff and active lurking is not.

[Verbal32]

Tina, I'm glad to see you joining in on the discussion. Jack and I have talked about this and we are going to try to fix this problem by staying active and both playing and modding games here on DM. I do think Kivam is on to something, though, with not allowing certain players who are known to be inactive in his games. I hate to be that way, but I'm going to start my own list of those players and not allow them in my games.

 

I think you might have just convinced me to do the same. I know I've been only on JN recently, but I'll make a concerted effort to play more games on DM, basic and advanced alike.

 

 

I was just reading up on some of the current games - my God. I think I'd pull my hair out with all the talk of random lynches being ok and people posting without actually saying anything. Scum do it, but town too?

 

This is why I don't play much on DM anymore.

 

You have hair to pull out? *ducks*

 

But seriously, I agree 100%. Being less active is fine as long as you are posting substance (not everyone can post every two or three posts after all). Posting fluff and active lurking is not.

 

*thwaps*

 

My hair is pretty, dammit!

[Kivam]

Again, I'm not saying this to toot my own horn, but I hope a lot of the newer, quieter folks watch the game of thrones game. It's the reason I'm running it here instead of jn, though most of the players play there regularly. I want you guys to see what mafia can look like when the players actually play

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

i'm glad you all posted this thread. i was sorta kinda thinking about maybe trying to play, but i can tell that i'd just be annoying, and i wouldn't have the nerve to try now.

 

but i think you will get the kinds of games you want, cause most people aren't like me. sorry to interrupt.

[ed2funy]

*nails Cindy down* You will play!

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

no. it would make me feel bad. there is a lot of aggression expected, and there is a lot of judgments about playing styles, which i can understand if people are looking for a particular kind of game. i barely understand the very barest of the basics, and i would never feel comfortable enough to commit to playing in a game where people were actually going to be ticked off at the way i will inevitably stumble my way through learning.

 

i think my brain is not stable enough to not take some of this stuff personally. and, i guess i like silly word games that i can understand better. this seems too mathy and too human behavior predictiony for me.

 

i'm not saying there's anything wrong with anything that's been said - just that i'm glad to know what people are looking for so i don't get involved in something i can't handle well. sorry, i probably should have just not said anything, but i get extra stoopid at night.

[John E. Kelley]

Naw, you ought to give it a try Cindy, I just started playing about 10 days ago, had no clue how to play at that point, but everyone here is very friendly and patient with the new players. There's a wiki entry for the game that you can read that's VERY helpful and another thing to do is go read a game thread that's on-going or one that's already over. You'll get a lot of helpful tips from games that are finished b/c it lets you see how everyone played while it was still active and then you can see at the end who was who. That helps a lot to see how some of the vets roleplayed their role and what some good stratagies are (as well as what stratagies weren't so good lol).

 

But seriously, the mafia players here on DM have been very patient with me and are quick to offer encouragement and advice. And in the little more than a week that I've been playing, I think my gameplay, while not up to par with the regulars, is still miles better than it was at the begginning. Honestly, you'll be good enough to at least be competitive by the end of Day 1 or 2 of your first game, even if you won't be a star player. And mafia is just simply way too fun not to give it a try.

[Kathleen]

There is a difference in being annoyed with long time players ways of playing and new players. I don't think anyone would have a problem with new people being unsure and getting their feet wet. The biggest greivence around (as far as i can see) is inactivity. As long as you are actively trying to play the game I don't think people will be upset. It when you sign up and then don't post at all, or just barely enough to keep you from being replaced (like one post per game day). If you are actually trying and posting and talking about the game no one will be upset with you. Everyone has to learn sometime and we're really good at including and incouraging new players.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

maybe in a shallower pool, with water wings and a noodle. but not here. even though it is difficult to say no to hagrid. but i can't run with the big dogs.

 

i've tried reading that stuff, and it's not getting through my skull. but i never really mastered checkers, either, so that's not surprising. this is definitely too intense for me.

 

please, go back to your conversation, i'm feeling a triple idiot now. i just. . . i just doubt i'm the only potential newbie that would be scared off by this thread, but probably for every chicken like me there's 3 raring to go that will be drawn to it. so.

 

anyway, good night.

[Alys Kinch]

Misuse of Day 1 is a big problem. Ideally, you would get at least two lynch trains running on Day 1, so you can look at who was where, who they were pushing and defending, etc. The "joke around until deadline then random lynch" thing that's become the habit on DM is a pain. If you want to see a real Day 1 - in fact, if you want to see a game played the way it was meant to be played - watch the Game of Thrones game I'll be modding. It's an experimental game, so the mechanics will be a bit different - but watch the way the players play. It's mostly the JN crew plus some really good players from DM/MJ (Lanth, Mynd, Kast, Alys, the Dude, etc.) who can run with them.

 

If I can get mafia on DM back to that level of play, I'll be really happy.

 

The way people play here now is A LOT of the reason I stopped playing. The logic had little to do with the votes; sometimes it was more about who was friends with who.

 

I was thinking of having a short deadline with the chance of extensions. I know some people use the deadlines to better plot what they will say and when.

The only thing about extensions is that you should make them work for it. I've played where extensions were allotted... To the good and the bad. Unless for a gooooooood reason (I think a DPR game where he said *the debate was really getting heated and actually moving* so he'd allow more of a consensus), the players can, and have previously, ignored the actual deadline because there was nothing firm going to make them act in a timely manner. Pretty much everything has it's catch 22.

 

I find it hard to play because people always go after the ones who do. They say they are going after the ones who look like they are 'leading the town' or 'playing aggressively' which are both good scum tells, if used properly. But here they seem to just think anyone who is the first or most actively trying to play is mafia doing the above. I'm sorry, but the mafia is gonna support off topic babble and distracting from the game, they aren't /always/ going to be the ones who are playing. Though a lot of them do because they want to have fun with their roles.

Product of making yourself an easy target. But neither are really good scum tells. They are potentially just as equally good townie tells, completely dependent on the circumstances. And that's part of what's wrong with Mafia here. People don't look past the "tells" to the actual overall play; combine the big and the little pictures for a more complete view.

 

I like your 'out there' style of play, but once it blows up in your face a couple of times, people get nervous trusting you.

*cough* Mynd, Kivam, DPR... Well, Kivam really just tends to be unconventional and all.

 

 

Again, I'm not saying this to toot my own horn, but I hope a lot of the newer, quieter folks watch the game of thrones game. It's the reason I'm running it here instead of jn, though most of the players play there regularly. I want you guys to see what mafia can look like when the players actually play

... Really? ;)

[ed2funy]

O_O

Ohmydeargod, I remember you Alys.

[Alys Kinch]

Mwahahahaha! I figured I might come back to the old haunt a day early. I am filled with anticipation at playing the Game of Thrones game. Kivam should totally open it at midnight... his time (only because GMT has already passed.)

[Alys Kinch]

Also, hopefully, remembering me isn't such a scary thing.

[ed2funy]

I don't remember much, to tell the truth. Just you.

Kinda sent me on a trip down fragmented memory lane....