Egwene Poll

[randsc]

That's not the order it happened in, Suttree. Go back and look. You made that statement in response to David when the conversation was still strictly about Egwene.

[XXX]

An example to show her priority - in ToM, she received reports that the Borderlands are getting overrun by Trolocs. Yet she didn't to anything to help, not even to send some sisters to the main Borderland cities to evacuate the injured, women and children, etc, which would've been really easy with Travelling. She thought sorting out some internal matters with the Hall was more important.

 

This isn't entirely true, she immediately seized control of the blue network from Siuan to gather intelligence on the situation. We also know there were AS with Ituralde in Maradon from the start of the battle. They are referenced as helping with the healing which I'm sure included the general populace. Don't forget there are already AS already stationed in the Borderlands as with the rulers when they go looking for Rand. Most besides Tenobia left there AS behind, just because it hasn't been mentioned doesn't mean they are just sitting on their hands doing nothing.

 

Ituralde had no AS with him when he was sent to Maradon..so any AS he had with him came with the Ashaman sent by Rand. Most likely the bonded AS. How can Egwene claim credit for that? She did not even know the Trollocs had attacked until after the fact.

 

Long before Rand shows upin Maradon, from "To Make A Stand" just after Yoelli pulls Ituralde in the gates it says.

 

The Asha'man and Aes Sedai had worked to Heal Ituralde's men, but only the worst cases could get attention.

 

Regardless it so funny when people try to pick and choose what they give AS credit for. Regardless of of who sent them (Siuan, Elaida, Egwene, Rand) it counts as AS helping fight trollocs in the Borderlands.

 

 

Rand sent Asha'man to Ituralde long before he showed up the second time with Bashere. The AS probably came with the 100 Asha'man who fought with Ituralde.

 

Egwene get's zero credit for their actions..in fact as far as they are concerned they probably did not even know that Egwene is the Amyrlin when they were fighting.

[Suttree]

That's not the order it happened in, Suttree. Go back and look. You made that statement in response to David when the conversation was still strictly about Egwene.

 

Ok I withdraw the Maradon comment, although they are still under her as AS. If they happened to make some colossal blunder you better believe everyone would blame Eggy and the WT as a whole not Rand. My point remains the same however, she can't be said to have done nothing and we will see the extent of her response for better or worse in AMoL.

 

Rand sent Asha'man to Ituralde long before he showed up the second time with Bashere. The AS probably came with the 100 Asha'man who fought with Ituralde.

 

Ituralde, the Ashaman and AS all arrived at Maradon together.

[Didgya]

Egwene really represents a great deal of young narrowly focused men/women. Have you noticed how some people (like Egwene) join a social group, team, organization, cult, church, exercise regiment (running is my thing in this),job or whatever and totally become engrossed in it to the exclusion of almost all else. People do it all the time and RJ really shows this rather common personality archetype with Egwene. Realistic characters draw the most emotional responses, as we see on the boards here. Sure some of her plot line might be pushing the limits but if you can buy into the One power, trollocs, and shawl wearing, (that last one I'm skeptical about) then like her or hate her, just enjoy a rich character full of as many flaws as you and I (especially you cause I'm sure I don't have many...ummmm nevermind)

:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

[Graveyardhag]

You all seem to be forgetting that right after hearing about the borderlands is the meeting where the Hall gains control of the war and the Amyrlin is left to deal with the kings and queens.

 

She TELLS them, right there in that meeting that the borderlands are being overrun. AFTER they have control of the armies/sending sisters out. Note also, that several of the sitters seem to already know about it (didn't see them going and telling Egwene about it did we?)

 

Your points are valid, but your blaming the wrong person. Blame the Hall of Tower, they are in control of that stuff now.

[John E. Kelley]

Early books, like; mid-series, dislike; latter books, like again. I've always thought that she reminds me of my younger sister, that she always knows what's best for everyone else, but maybe her opinion isn't based on all the facts, but her intuition. She has the best interests of everyone in mind, but just because she means well doesn't mean that she's right.

 

Egwene pre-Wise One's is a good character, but Saildar-Egwene sucks. Amyrlyn-Egwene is a much better character, Sanderson went a long way towards salvaging Egwene for me. I do respect her commitment to duty and the WT, not to mention her ability as a channeler, but her know-it-all attitude is a serious turn off. But all that said, she's still better than Faile or Elayne. Which isn't saying much, since a turnip could have better lines than those two.

[XXX]

 

 

Rand sent Asha'man to Ituralde long before he showed up the second time with Bashere. The AS probably came with the 100 Asha'man who fought with Ituralde.

 

Ituralde, the Ashaman and AS all arrived at Maradon together.

 

Yes..the AS came with the Ashaman sent to help Ituralde by Rand..not Egwene. They are bonded to his AS or sworn to him. The only AS Rand works with are those sworn to him, the AS bonded to his Ash'aman, Cad's group and Ny. We know Cad's group and Ny were not at Maradon so the AS who went there would be under Rand's command.

[Taryn]

Wow, well this is quite interesting. Thanks to everyone for contributing here with your vote and your opinions/analysis. The people who like Egwene have actually taken the lead in the poll!!!!

 

I theorize that a greater percentage of the more casual readers actually like Egwene; whereas the hyper-critical, yet mostly lovely ;), people on the boards seem to find bones to pick as they analyze her character on a deeper level......very interesting. I can say that I know at least 2 nonchalant fans, who don't venture here, that like Egwene. A lot. And they are incredulous that there are many out there who think she's just plain terrible. I'm just saying.

 

Anyone else agree with that hypothesis, or do you think I'm totally off base?

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

Wow, well this is quite interesting. Thanks to everyone for contributing here with your vote and your opinions/analysis. The people who like Egwene have actually taken the lead in the poll!!!!

 

I theorize that a greater percentage of the more casual readers actually like Egwene; whereas the hyper-critical, yet mostly lovely ;), people on the boards seem to find bones to pick as they analyze her character on a deeper level......very interesting. I can say that I know at least 2 nonchalant fans, who don't venture here, that like Egwene. A lot. And they are incredulous that there are many out there who think she's just plain terrible. I'm just saying.

 

Anyone else agree with that hypothesis, or do you think I'm totally off base?

 

agree completely.

 

also a bit difficult to judge actual numbers on the interwebs due to sock puppetry and other trolling devices.

[randsc]

I absolutely agree. Careful readers despise Egwene, people who aren't paying much attention like her just fine.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

*rimshot*

[Taryn]

Wow! :) I was trying to be diplomatic about it........I fancy myself a careful reader but, I very much like Egwene.....

 

Looks like I need to go reread the series again...

[Kahsm]

I absolutely agree. Careful readers despise Egwene, people who aren't paying much attention like her just fine.

 

*rimshot*

 

Mmhmm. How about this... People who think so much they end up ascribing ridiculous, inhumane, and completely unrealistic exceptions dislike her because she actually is written well. While the one-dimensional, black-and-white characters that stay the same through most or all of the series are beloved for their simplicity and how they don't overheat the brains of those who claim to be "careful readers".

[Manscher]

Egwene is the one person who stays EXACTLY the same as she did in the start, her fundamental view of the world is still the exact same as it was back in the two rivers. She is the one who's done the least amount of emotional and personal development throughout the entire series.

[sleepinghour]

Egwene is the one person who stays EXACTLY the same as she did in the start, her fundamental view of the world is still the exact same as it was back in the two rivers. She is the one who's done the least amount of emotional and personal development throughout the entire series.

She was not here to play. At nine, she was carrying water for the first time, but she was going to be the best water-carrier ever.

[...]

Egwene grimaced in disgust. She would never be fool enough to make big eyes at a boy like some kind of woolhead.

[...]

"I'd like to a be a king," Rand was saying. "That's what I'd like to be." He flourished his arm and made an awkward bow, laughing to show that he was joking. A good thing, too. Egwene grimaced. A king!

[...]

Rand and the others must be blind! Egwene thought.

[...]

The Forsaken had been Aes Sedai? She hoped Master al'Thor did not say that too freely, or the Women's Circle would come calling on him. Anyway, some of the Forsaken were men, so he had to be wrong.

{...]

The Dragon was the man who had destroyed everything! She did not know much about the Breaking of the World--well, almost nothing, in truth--but everybody knew that much. Surely he had fought for the Shadow!

If you ask me, current Egwene is almost exactly like her nine-year-old self.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

i'm not sure the *rimshot* was understood. it wasn't, say, a kudos. oh, nevermind.

[OptimusPrime]

I dont like the way she is written. I think thats it. To me, it seems like she only became a main character because the real main three were all men. I mean its obvious she was meant to be Amyrlin from the EotW foreshadowing, but that happened by pure chance. There was ABSOLUTELY NOTHING she did to earn that title before she was picked by the rebels. Going against Elaida, the rebels could have put Cenn Buie on the Amyrlin Seat if they decided they wanted to.

 

It just seems to me that she wants to be Rand. Not consciously, but... Rand built up mass tolerance of pain through torture, fighting, being marked and saidin, rinse and repeat through several books. Egwene spends a bit of time with the Aiel specifically-SPECIFICALLY-to be able to handle Elaidas beatings. Theres no two ways about it.

 

Egwene: I want to be Ta'veren.

Rand: Well you're not.

Egwene: Oh, but I am.

 

She has some skill with the Power, and the whole Dreamer/Dreamwalker thing is cool. But thats as far as it goes in my oppinion. And even then, Perrin overshadows her with his ability, the first time I buzzed off Perrin for a looong time. Not because Perrin did good, but because he showed Egwene there were people with better skill than her. After TGS everyone was like "Oooh Egwene yay" when really she just did something anyone could and should have done. Which means linking with the novices isnt a big thing to fret over.

 

I hope she dies soon. But you know that if she does, she will be bound to the Horn out of pure cheesiness.

[Didgya]

I dont like the way she is written. I think thats it. To me, it seems like she only became a main character because the real main three were all men. I mean its obvious she was meant to be Amyrlin from the EotW foreshadowing, but that happened by pure chance. There was ABSOLUTELY NOTHING she did to earn that title before she was picked by the rebels. Going against Elaida, the rebels could have put Cenn Buie on the Amyrlin Seat if they decided they wanted to.

 

It just seems to me that she wants to be Rand. Not consciously, but... Rand built up mass tolerance of pain through torture, fighting, being marked and saidin, rinse and repeat through several books. Egwene spends a bit of time with the Aiel specifically-SPECIFICALLY-to be able to handle Elaidas beatings. Theres no two ways about it.

 

Egwene: I want to be Ta'veren.

Rand: Well you're not.

Egwene: Oh, but I am.

 

She has some skill with the Power, and the whole Dreamer/Dreamwalker thing is cool. But thats as far as it goes in my oppinion. And even then, Perrin overshadows her with his ability, the first time I buzzed off Perrin for a looong time. Not because Perrin did good, but because he showed Egwene there were people with better skill than her. After TGS everyone was like "Oooh Egwene yay" when really she just did something anyone could and should have done. Which means linking with the novices isnt a big thing to fret over.

 

I hope she dies soon. But you know that if she does, she will be bound to the Horn out of pure cheesiness.

I agree with some of your views but she was chosen, by the rebels, due to her connection with Rand, she's strong in the power, and (they thought) easily manipulated and they couldn't agree on which powerful AS to choose in Salidar. Yet your right that it's a stretch to think about her when she's in the Waste and couldn't be farther than their minds at the time. Easily Nynaeve or Elayne fit the requirements as well or better. I just boils down to plot at that point and a suspension of belief. (I have some extra if ya need it )

[randsc]

I absolutely agree. Careful readers despise Egwene, people who aren't paying much attention like her just fine.

 

*rimshot*

 

Mmhmm. How about this... People who think so much they end up ascribing ridiculous, inhumane, and completely unrealistic exceptions dislike her because she actually is written well. While the one-dimensional, black-and-white characters that stay the same through most or all of the series are beloved for their simplicity and how they don't overheat the brains of those who claim to be "careful readers".

 

 

Oh, lighten up.

 

And I'm not sure what an "unrealistic exception" might be. I caught that because I'm a careful reader.

 

Finally, Egwene is actually a very simple character. She's ambition personified. What's complicated about that?

[Kahsm]

I absolutely agree. Careful readers despise Egwene, people who aren't paying much attention like her just fine.

 

*rimshot*

 

Mmhmm. How about this... People who think so much they end up ascribing ridiculous, inhumane, and completely unrealistic exceptions dislike her because she actually is written well. While the one-dimensional, black-and-white characters that stay the same through most or all of the series are beloved for their simplicity and how they don't overheat the brains of those who claim to be "careful readers".

 

 

Oh, lighten up.

 

And I'm not sure what an "unrealistic exception" might be. I caught that because I'm a careful reader.

 

Finally, Egwene is actually a very simple character. She's ambition personified. What's complicated about that?

 

I'm glad you can catch spellcheck immune miss-types. Though if you failed to get my meaning despite it, I think I know what your problem is.

 

Is she? Sounds made up. She didn't ask or seek to be Amyrlin, and has been making a good go of what's been thrown at her since.

 

I guess simple = characters you don't like.

[mb]

Careful readers despise Egwene, people who aren't paying much attention like her just fine.

Actually, both groups can "despise" or like.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

^ +1

[XXX]

 

 

I'm glad you can catch spellcheck immune miss-types. Though if you failed to get my meaning despite it, I think I know what your problem is.

 

Is she? Sounds made up. She didn't ask or seek to be Amyrlin, and has been making a good go of what's been thrown at her since.

 

I guess simple = characters you don't like.

 

 

Rand does not want to be the Dragon,does not want to be the ruler..wants to go home and live in a village. Perrin does not want to be a ruler, wants to go home and live in a village. Mat does not want to be a ruler or noble,does not want glory from battle, wants nothing other than to gamble and drink in small taverns. Ny wants to be an AS but only to learn healing and wants to go and live with the her husband.

 

Compared to all of them Egwene is ambitious.

[Kahsm]

 

 

I'm glad you can catch spellcheck immune miss-types. Though if you failed to get my meaning despite it, I think I know what your problem is.

 

Is she? Sounds made up. She didn't ask or seek to be Amyrlin, and has been making a good go of what's been thrown at her since.

 

I guess simple = characters you don't like.

 

 

Rand does not want to be the Dragon,does not want to be the ruler..wants to go home and live in a village. Perrin does not want to be a ruler, wants to go home and live in a village. Mat does not want to be a ruler or noble,does not want glory from battle, wants nothing other than to gamble and drink in small taverns. Ny wants to be an AS but only to learn healing and wants to go and live with the her husband.

 

Compared to all of them Egwene is ambitious.

 

That's why I like her. The guys were, and some still are (Perrin) anoyingly negligent of their potential and importance. At least mat goes with the flow. Rand has embraced his role, and Egwene was smart enough, and yes ambitious enough, to see the opportunity that was given to her. That is not a failing. While extreme humility may be endearing, it wouldn't have wrestled power from the hall and reformed the WT.

 

Also, her short time with the Aiel is why she wasn't embracing the pain properly until she started laughing through it. She learnt that on her own. Her original aproach to just take it was a flawed understanding because her time was so short with aiel.

[XXX]

You like her..for others personal ambition in the face of certain world disaster is grating especially when she is the only main character displaying this trait.