Demandred

[Terez]

Brandon said Demandred's alter ego was not seen in TOM.

[contempt]

Brandon said Demandred's alter ego was not seen in TOM.

Burn you, I was sure this time! :)

 

Edit: Still, a lot of the things I described could still be attributed to Dem. Has BS said we've never seen him, or just not in ToM?

[Terez]

The only book where the alter ego could have possibly been seen is TGS, and even that is doubtful.

[contempt]

So I guess that does leave practically only Roedran, but like Jhinko said, that will be so disappointing.

 

I guess it might not be that bad if he doesn't really care about Murandy (i.e. not "digging himself in" like Sammy & the others). If he only makes brief appearances there to issue orders & then keeps on the move he could still have potential.

 

I just would like it to be something new, not simply carving out a piece RL for himself like the others. If the Blight is added as a place where he's had influence (the Aiel dreadlords), then a lot of the things I described above could still be his handiwork.

 

I know it's supposed to be possible for us to figure out who he is, but I really wish someone would come up with another viable candidate other than Roedran.

[Terez]

So I guess that does leave practically only Roedran, but like Jhinko said, that will be so disappointing.

I used to feel the same.

 

I guess it might not be that bad if he doesn't really care about Murandy (i.e. not "digging himself in" like Sammy & the others).

This is how you have to start thinking if you want to accept it. That's what I did, and then I started to see the logic in it. He doesn't care about Murandy. He needed a power base, a staging ground. He chose one that no one cared about - a nation that everyone underestimated because of its internal divisiveness. Like Brandon hinted at, Roedran would never have hired the Band if there wasn't an army worth gathering there. It's a convenient location because it's right between Rand's main seats of power (one of which was formerly Sammael's main seat of power). He has a populace that he can rally against the Andorans just based on past grievances. He has a staging ground that is so much not worth consideration that Egwene didn't even worry about marching her army across it - she hardly gave consideration to Roedran at all. A smart general does what his enemy does not expect, and no one expects the Shadow's greatest general to show up in Murandy, of all places.

 

I just would like it to be something new, not simply carving out a piece RL for himself like the others.

Another problem is that people seem to think that Demandred's alter ego should be representative of the whole of what he has been up to. The main thing Demandred has been up to, by all appearances, is planning the Battle of Caemlyn. That's why he's the Shadow's main player in AMOL. Murandy was just his power base. He's got other things going on - the Black Tower, the Shadowspawn attack, maybe even the Legion of the Dragon and the 10,000 mercenaries hanging around outside the city. It's a very impressive plan, by all appearances...and his power base, Murandy, is only a small part of it.

[Clayden69]

Another problem is that people seem to think that Demandred's alter ego should be representative of the whole of what he has been up to. The main thing Demandred has been up to, by all appearances, is planning the Battle of Caemlyn. That's why he's the Shadow's main player in AMOL. Murandy was just his power base. He's got other things going on - the Black Tower, the Shadowspawn attack, maybe even the Legion of the Dragon and the 10,000 mercenaries hanging around outside the city. It's a very impressive plan, by all appearances...and his power base, Murandy, is only a small part of it.

 

 

this would b great, it is an impressive plan and hopefully can lead to alot of mayhem

[Durinax]

Another problem is that people seem to think that Demandred's alter ego should be representative of the whole of what he has been up to. The main thing Demandred has been up to, by all appearances, is planning the Battle of Caemlyn. That's why he's the Shadow's main player in AMOL. Murandy was just his power base. He's got other things going on - the Black Tower, the Shadowspawn attack, maybe even the Legion of the Dragon and the 10,000 mercenaries hanging around outside the city. It's a very impressive plan, by all appearances...and his power base, Murandy, is only a small part of it.

 

 

this would b great, it is an impressive plan and hopefully can lead to alot of mayhem

if the part about the mercs outside the city is true, the band could be truly destroyed against the city. forcing mat to go to tuon to have significant forces under his personal command

[Corvinus]

I think I have found out who Demandred is. I know, millions of people think that, but please listen.

There are a few facts we know from comments of RJ and BS.

1. Demandred did not appear on screen in any book, except maybe TGS (for the quotes, see comment 24).

2. Demandred is mentioned in a book between one and 9. For the quote, see comment 30.

3. Demandred's RULE IS SECURE. He has power. He is in control anywhere/somewhere/everywhere.

 

Another great change. I think It'll stay so until AMoL. With using "my rule is secure", you can get important evidence. Because he has (much) power. Enough to satisfy the Dark One. So hes has to control an army/country. The Borderlands, Andor+Cairhien, Illian+Tear, Altara+Tarabon+Amadicia are ruled out because they have respectively Ethinelle+Tenobia+Easar+Paitar, Elayne, Rand and Fortuona as leaders. In Arad Doman and Gheldean IS NO LEADER, and then Murandy is the only country left, because Dem is mentioned, and no rulers of Seanchan, Shara and the LotM (except Fortuona) are mentioned.

 

About those "edited by Leyrann", I'm just editing it for updates. Then you don't have to read all the comments to know who are all ruled out.

 

Hi, haven't been on these forums since ToM was released, but I've slowly started to watch it and this is my first comment. That said, I fail to see in this post of yours who do you think is Demandred. I mean yeah, Roedran was my guess, too, for a long time now, but I've personally given up on guessing. So is this thread basically Demandred=Roedran, or something else?

[Terez]

I think she started out making a claim that Demandred was somebody, and then she was convinced otherwise, and so edited her first post, and now it doesn't make any sense. At least, that was what I gathered. I'm guessing she probably thought he was Galgan.

[Terez]

Another problem is that people seem to think that Demandred's alter ego should be representative of the whole of what he has been up to. The main thing Demandred has been up to, by all appearances, is planning the Battle of Caemlyn. That's why he's the Shadow's main player in AMOL. Murandy was just his power base. He's got other things going on - the Black Tower, the Shadowspawn attack, maybe even the Legion of the Dragon and the 10,000 mercenaries hanging around outside the city. It's a very impressive plan, by all appearances...and his power base, Murandy, is only a small part of it.

 

 

this would b great, it is an impressive plan and hopefully can lead to alot of mayhem

if the part about the mercs outside the city is true, the band could be truly destroyed against the city. forcing mat to go to tuon to have significant forces under his personal command

I'm not so sure he will have the option, unless Tuon decides to attack Caemlyn instead of Tar Valon. I figured Demandred was using the tracker for the purpose of pinning Talmanes between the wall and another army, whether it's the mercenaries, the Legion of the Dragon, or the Murandians. Or all three. However it plays out, I expect Demandred has a good plan.

[Leyrann]

I think she started out making a claim that Demandred was somebody, and then she was convinced otherwise, and so edited her first post, and now it doesn't make any sense. At least, that was what I gathered. I'm guessing she probably thought he was Galgan.

 

This. Except that it is "he". (You're the third one who is wrong, you know...)

 

I'm going to change it now.

[Mowbray]

According to me, Demandred is one of the most intriguing characters in WoT. For one time, he was marginally less powerful than Lews Therin. For other, he joined the dark forces out of pure hatred, something no other Forsaken did.

By sequence the Forsaken were revealed in the series: Aginor, Balthamael, Be'lal, Ishamael, Lanfear, Asmodean, Moghedien, Rahvin, Sammael, Orangar, Arangar, Semirhage, Graendal, Mesaana ... In this sequence, one can see that the Forsaken have become more powerful by ascendancy and managed to bring about greater destruction. In such a sequence, Demandred is set to bring in something that's unthinkable.

For me, King Roedran is a loose choice as Demandred himself, though he can be his setup, like Taim. Roedran's kingdom is not so strong to support the dark cause. In such a case, I think the only place that Demandred may be present will be Shara, the only land least mention, except in passing by Aiel and in the glossary. No one knows what it is yet, and it will be disappointing if nothing comes out of the place which has every symptom of twisted minds in the society. Moreover, we came to know that Graendal pushed the land to chaos after kidnapping its chiefs.

Demandred will be the one who'll become Nae'blis, I think. He's the one who's not intimidated by Moridin, and is literally pissed off. I think Demandred will replace Moridin in the Last Battle.

In the bottom note, I think Taim will become the new Forsaken. He's the only one who has appeared below par till now.

[JKN-SW]

Another problem is that people seem to think that Demandred's alter ego should be representative of the whole of what he has been up to. The main thing Demandred has been up to, by all appearances, is planning the Battle of Caemlyn. That's why he's the Shadow's main player in AMOL. Murandy was just his power base. He's got other things going on - the Black Tower, the Shadowspawn attack, maybe even the Legion of the Dragon and the 10,000 mercenaries hanging around outside the city. It's a very impressive plan, by all appearances...and his power base, Murandy, is only a small part of it.

 

One thing I don't really understand is why Caemlyn would be worth it's own battle? What is the gain for the DO in attacking Caemlyn? For us readers, Caemlyn is special because the queen is a major character in the series, but for the Randlanders, isn't Caemlyn just one of several great cities? If it's ment to be a diversion, then having Demandred planning the battle for 13 books seems like a bit of an overkill to me. I find it hard to beleive that Rand would "do a Perrin" and drop everything, including the fate of the world, to rescue the capital of one of his leved ones. If the Shadow is even aware of their relation?

 

What other reasons can there be, pleas enlighten me?

[Mik]

Another problem is that people seem to think that Demandred's alter ego should be representative of the whole of what he has been up to. The main thing Demandred has been up to, by all appearances, is planning the Battle of Caemlyn. That's why he's the Shadow's main player in AMOL. Murandy was just his power base. He's got other things going on - the Black Tower, the Shadowspawn attack, maybe even the Legion of the Dragon and the 10,000 mercenaries hanging around outside the city. It's a very impressive plan, by all appearances...and his power base, Murandy, is only a small part of it.

 

One thing I don't really understand is why Caemlyn would be worth it's own battle? What is the gain for the DO in attacking Caemlyn? For us readers, Caemlyn is special because the queen is a major character in the series, but for the Randlanders, isn't Caemlyn just one of several great cities? If it's ment to be a diversion, then having Demandred planning the battle for 13 books seems like a bit of an overkill to me. I find it hard to beleive that Rand would "do a Perrin" and drop everything, including the fate of the world, to rescue the capital of one of his leved ones. If the Shadow is even aware of their relation?

 

What other reasons can there be, pleas enlighten me?

The Shadow is expected to come pouring from the Blight in numbers unimmaginable. Now what if it's not just that the Shadow comes pouring from the Blasted Lands, but -at the same time- unarguably one of the greatest power-bases of the Light is destroyed far behind the expected battle-grounds. That will strike fear & despair into the hearts of men. And that it exactly what Shai' tan wants.

 

Btw; read that file from Terez on Demandred. Totally agree.

[David Selig]

Caemlyn is the most populous city in Randland now IIRC, there was a mention at some point that with all the refugees coming in it has overcome Tar Valon. If th Shadow can take it, that would be a massive coup.

 

Rand came to help Maradon, a city he had no connection with - why wouldn't he come to help Caemlyn? He'd probably feel guilty for not destroying the Waygate when he was in charge of the city.

[Ranskey]

I know this is not probable because RJ and Brandon Sanderson are usually staightforward with their answers, but...

 

There is the possibility that Demandred's alter-ego was seen in the series before he began posing as this character. Technically the person wouldn't have been his alter-ego at the time, so RJ's answer would still be true.

 

I'm just throwing that out there because im with the group of people that believe it probably is Roedran, but this would be a huge let down.

[Leyrann]

You're right, Ranskey, but don't forget the Forsaken already took their positions in TGH. There are very few characters that did only appear in TEotW and maybe the start of TGH.

[Ranskey]

You're right, Ranskey, but don't forget the Forsaken already took their positions in TGH. There are very few characters that did only appear in TEotW and maybe the start of TGH.

 

Do we know for sure that Demandred took his position at that time? Maybe he had to scheme a bit to secure his position. Don't we really only know that he took his rule when he says "My rule is secure".

[Leyrann]

I think "My rule is secure" meant that he had united Murandy. Roedran was already acting strange somewhere in TFoH or LoC, and then we are talking about some of the first times we hear about him directly.

 

A thought just occured me, by the way. Someone in Murandy declared himself the Dragon Reborn in the Great Hunt. What if this was Demandred trying to unite Murandy against this (compulsed) False Dragon. It seems to have failed, if this is the case, because this man was almost immediately captured. And then he made another plan, using the Band of the Red Hand.

[Terez]

I think she started out making a claim that Demandred was somebody, and then she was convinced otherwise, and so edited her first post, and now it doesn't make any sense. At least, that was what I gathered. I'm guessing she probably thought he was Galgan.

 

This. Except that it is "he". (You're the third one who is wrong, you know...)

Your name is very fem, as is your golf ball. But people always get it wrong for me, too, and I don't think it's the name. I've lost count.

[Leyrann]

I think she started out making a claim that Demandred was somebody, and then she was convinced otherwise, and so edited her first post, and now it doesn't make any sense. At least, that was what I gathered. I'm guessing she probably thought he was Galgan.

 

This. Except that it is "he". (You're the third one who is wrong, you know...)

Your name is very fem, as is your golf ball. But people always get it wrong for me, too, and I don't think it's the name. I've lost count.

 

I also got it wrong with you first. But I don't have the feeling it's very fem. If I had, it would've never become my favorite name to use...

[Majsju]

 

 

I guess it might not be that bad if he doesn't really care about Murandy (i.e. not "digging himself in" like Sammy & the others). If he only makes brief appearances there to issue orders & then keeps on the move he could still have potential.

 

 

 

Which is one reason I do like the option of demandred having Rhoedran as one of his favoured proxies, rather than tying himself up by posing as a king. That would give him full control over Murandy, while still being free to run around letting the Lord of Chaos rule. It would also be the tactically best option, and Demandred is suppost to be a brilliant tactician.

[Terez]

There's nothing to say that the job in Murandy ties him down much. Brilliant tacticians know how to delegate.

[capuga]

I think she started out making a claim that Demandred was somebody, and then she was convinced otherwise, and so edited her first post, and now it doesn't make any sense. At least, that was what I gathered. I'm guessing she probably thought he was Galgan.

 

This. Except that it is "he". (You're the third one who is wrong, you know...)

Your name is very fem, as is your golf ball. But people always get it wrong for me, too, and I don't think it's the name. I've lost count.

 

I also got it wrong with you first. But I don't have the feeling it's very fem. If I had, it would've never become my favorite name to use...

 

I thought you were female based on the name.... Now I know better.

[Terez]

Dutchies are weird. I have some Dutchie friends, and one of them has a name I can't pronounce. Or maybe I could, but it wouldn't be very ladylike.