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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Mowbray

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  1. Okay. My bad. I didn't know BS has confirmed it.
  2. I don't know whether this has been discussed or not, but it still intrigues me. Throughout the series - ever since Moridin has made an appearance - we have been assuming Ishamael to be the resurrected one. However, if you see the characteristics of the two Forsaken, some very startling discrepancies come out: 1. Ishamael was determined to either turn Rand or kill him. Moridin, on the other hand, only wants Rand to survive (for now). 2. Ishamael was never a patient man. He only liked to see things working, with he in the centre. Moridin, on the other hand, is merely giving commands, and sitting away as a judge and an executioner. 3. Ishamael failed not once, but thrice, while other Forsaken were getting punished for failing even once. Graendal was the special case, who got two chances. 4. Moridin said something of "the one being punished the most". What if he is actually talking about Ishamael, and not Lanfear? 5. Aginor was exposed as Osan'gar, and Balthamael was exposed as Arangar. Even Cyndane has been nearly revealed. But about Moridin, RJ and BS has mentioned nothing more than being the one who's giving orders and watching over Shayol Ghul. When Rand accused him of returning back, he didn't even admit that, but turn the conversation away from it. Knowing the potential of the entire series, I don't think - I hope, at least - that RJ is going to serve us everything on a platter before the climax. Who'll survive, who'll not - that's a very old question that accompanies every series. Demandred's mystery is one thing, but it's not sufficient. Lanfear was always expected to play a role in the end (she was the one to start it all) and Taim was too obvious of becoming a Chosen (no one can give a potential, strong army as Taim did). So what's it that can make AMoL explosive? Something interesting, something unexpected, and, especially, something that can make the author sneer at the readers by saying that it was always before them all the time. I personally feel that the reason RJ ad BS have refused to acknowledge Moridin as an Ishamael reincarnate is that he actually is not. In fact, I think he's an undocumented Forsaken or at least one of the other dead ones. P.S. I know DL has mentioned that Asmodean won't be brought back, but didn't anyone observe that Moridin actually appeared to us after Asmodean's death?
  3. In ToM, when Rand starts picking out DFs by merely looking at them, Bashere has been at his side all the time. Don't you think Rand would have caught him, if he'd been a DF? Moreover, in "Storm of Light" (ToM), when Rand goes for the Trollocs in Maradon, we saw the impact that it can have on a DF through Tenobia's relative. On the other hand, Bashere had looked at it directly without even wincing. In fact, he was admiring Rand's strength. These two points are enough to diffuse Bashere as a DF. About "something dark" Min foresaw, I think Bashere and Tenobia will die in the end, and as everyone as pointed out, Perrin will become the king of Saldaea
  4. Friend, the Shaido-episode contained three main factors, all of which will play an important role later on: 1. Perrin undergoing drastic character-change; 2. Perrin's biggest weakness, which had been hidden till now unlike Rand and Mat, has been exposed; 3. Perrin's deal with Seanchan. Mind you, this thing is going to play a very important role in AMoL, especially when Rand needs to strike an alliance with the Empire; 4. Shaido thrown back to the Waste; 5. Faile's attitude-change; 6. End of Masema; and 7. Beginning of Perrin's commandeering Personally, I think no other character had this many factors counting in. Rand's wait for Sammael stretched for 3 books, his encounter with next Forsaken took another 4 books, Egwene's WT crisis took ridiculously 8 books, Elayne's recapture of Andor took 3 books, Mat-Tuon saga took 3 books and so on ... And this was only for one factor. In Perrin-Shaido's case, there were seven. So it was expected to take time. Anyway, personally thinking, this whole matter was wrapped up pretty well. Well, you can't expect your protagonist to be flashy all the time. Mat and Rand are enough for that. With everyone too fast, Perrin's character in the series is a breather.
  5. Throughout the WoT, hundreds of characters have come forth. Some have enticed us. Some have irritated us. And some have literally sent us to sleep. These characters have been the work of genius from Robert Jordan, something which is very difficult to do. Even Malazan or LoTR could not develop such attachment to the character. (LoTR is still my favorite series, but it focused too much on Aragorn, Sam, Frodo and Gandalf to earn attachment for others) However, one of the characters that actually stood out for me is Perrin Aybara. Now I know how others in the forum feel about him. A whiner who should have taken things up headstart, a selfish person who was ready to deal with the DO for Faile, a light-blinded idiot who led many of his close ones to dangerous paths (Aram, anyone?), and so on ... Accepted the guy's PoV was sort of too lengthy for once liking, but it is this guy who is actually RJ's best character, according to me. Perrin, at the very start, was shy, careful and meticulous. He did not have the looks of Rand or mischievous genius of Mat. He was merely a blacksmith, a very humble and boring background. Then Moiraine came and whisked them off. Rand ended up being the Dragon Reborn and Mat become the gambler, son of battles and, eventually, a Seanchan king. On the other hand, Perrin was reduced to his village, married to Faile who had abandoned her household and devoid of his original family. In such a case, bringing Perrin up from such desolation has always been difficult from a writer's point of view. Who will like a blacksmith whose only notable thing was he could talk with wolves over the one who can channel, kill the Forsaken, shake the nations to core and challenge the White Tower itself, or the one who never loses at chances, was of mischievous sort and faced creatures like Aelfinn, Elfinn and Gollum. Still Perrin is one of the ta'veren and one of the main characters. How can one actually rise when he can't even outshine a character like Tuon? Rand was destined to be the emperor. Mat was already in the company of nobles that gave him some ideas about leading from the front. But Perrin had no one to look forward to. Faile was acting like a rich merchant's daughter. Berelain was acting like a flaunting pr********, and Alliandre was a queen in all but in name. Even Morgase was so determined to be a servant to offer Perrin any help. A wolf can't be expected to teach him to be a king, eh? As all the paths to embracing leadership were closed, Perrin was obviously in dilemna over it, and it was understandable that he detested it, for neither he nor his village knew how to deal with a lord. This, along with his fears of a wolf inside him, was enough to give a writer a test for his skills. This was why RJ wrote Perrin in such a manner. There was no other way. The guy was the most complex character of all, and that meant beginning from the scratch. If you read through Perrin's PoV, you can find it a contribution to Perrin's molding character. For instance, TGH talked about Perrin's trust on Rand. TDR talked about loss of Perrin's shyness and aloofness as he starts to stand up against Moiraine. TFH talks about Perrin's commanding skills. TLoC talks about Perrin's embrace of his duty towards the world. TCoS talks about Perrin's character-change, making him take up tasks which he hasn't been doing for long. TPoD talks about beginning of Perrin's ability to attract armies. WH talks about Perrin as a lover. CoT talks about Perrin's weakness of getting too much focused. KoD is one of the main books for Perrin's character upheaval. ToM talks about how Perrin closes up weaknesses to become a good leader and general. In all, RJ kept Perrin true, the sole character whom one can actually relate himself/herself with. With everyone else already having some history, it was remarkable from RJ to create and develop a character like Perrin. I respect RJ's character-development only because of Rand and Perrin.
  6. The Eelfinn are not beasts of the Shadow. That's a shame, because your assessment is deeply flawed. That Avi and Rand will have children does not mean that they will marry, still less that this will happen after TG. It requires only that Rand and Avi have sex at least once more. That's it. It has already been revealed that Aelfinn and Eelfinn are beasts of shadow, though not under DO's shade.
  7. That's a shame, because your assessment is deeply flawed. That Avi and Rand will have children does not mean that they will marry, still less that this will happen after TG. It requires only that Rand and Avi have sex at least once more. That's it. Plus Aviendha's only reason to hold back from being with Rand was that she was not his equal. She wanted to be a wise one in order to compare to his honor. Since she will return from Rhuidean, she will be a wise one. Man, you should know by now that according to Aiel customs, a Wise One HAS to marry to bear children. Avi is not a Maiden that will be impregnated with Rand's children without getting married.
  8. I have read WoT at least 6 times, and there are some glaring spots, combining which you can actually deduce the climax of the series. In this post, I'll be talking about Rand al'Thor. Basically, when the writer starts pointing out that the protagonist is going to die, die and die, you have to understand that it's going to be exactly the opposite. Even the greatest fantasy author - JRR Tolkien - used this device for Frodo Baggins. In the entire LoTR, there were talks of Frodo dying in the end, killed by Sam, committing suicide and likewise. But in the end, he survived. In Harry Potter series, Harry Potter was slated to die to kill Voldemort, but he survived to tell the tale of another day. Same is the case with Rand al'Thor. Unless the late RJ is really a cruel writer - which I feel he is not - he won't be heaping miseries over his protagonist only to die without reaping not even an ounce of a reward for a sacrifice. Each writer carries a sense of responsibility and RJ is no less. Till now, what we have seen so far about Rand is this: homeless, heartbroken, alienated, injured, maddened, imprisoned, tortured, guilty, mutilated ... all the negative things that no man will ever face in one lifetime. So, is it a good idea to kill him? That will really put an end to the entire series. The readers will not touch the books once the series will be over. Who wants to read the saga that is doomed for a horrendous ending. LoTR survived the ages not only because Tolkien wrote the masterpiece, but also because how the series ended on a positive note. Every protagonist survived and filled the reader with joy and inspiration. Yeah, I know it is not possible for this series - I mean, every protagonist surviving - but it will be a complete series-killer if Rand dies without any positive outcome for his own. Well, above was an author's perspective. Now back to the series. Following are the hints that tell me Rand won't die in the end: 1. Aelfinns' answer to Rand - they say that Rand will live when he dies first. As far as I have seen, unlike the foxes, the snakes have been too straightforward in their answers. Mat thinks they were sneaks, but they gave direct answers: marry Nine Moons, die and live again and give away half the light of the world to save the world. Rand's answer is also somewhat straight, and has no philosophical edge. Know that snakes are beasts of the shadow and no philosophers. 2. Min's viewing - She says three men will look at the pyre with Rand on it. But she says nothing about burning. Just a pyre. 3. Aviendha's children - Rand and Aviendha had an intimate relationship only once, and that relationship did not end in the girl's pregnancy. And Min has been sure that Avi will have 4 children. This means that Rand and Avi will marry, and it is not likely to happen before the battle, with Avi too far and everything too much on the edge. This is, by far, the biggest clue. 4. Rhuarc's son - Rhuarc's so, in ToM, says he saw Rand going to a Hold. As far as we have seen till now, children of Rhuarc or Bael aren't there now, otherwise they would have been revealed by now. Moreover, Rand doesn't seem to return to Aiel Waste until TD is over. This means, Rand will survive. 5. In TGS, Graendal sees Moridin similar to al'Thor in a certain position. As far as we have seen, Moridin has no looks like Rand. He's younger and prettier. Rand, on the other hand, has gained age on his face. This foreshadows RJ's element. 6. In TGS, Rand worries that he has to be careful, otherwise "there won't be anything of him for DO to kill". This comment actually is disheartening, filled with dark humor, but it also tells us that Rand will be switching bodies. 7. Min sees two men fusing into one in Rand's viewing. Lews Therin is Rand, and Rand is Lews Therin, so there arises no question of Dragonmount scene fulfilling the viewing. On the other hand, Moridin-Rand connection is more prominent, and with Moridin's insistence of Rand to be kept alive, I feel it will be Rand's blood that will spill on Shayol Ghul's rocks, but there won't be Rand in the body. This is my analysis so far. I feel, from pt 4, that Rand will become Car'a'carn of Aiel and will establish capital in Rhuidean. Tear will go to Darlin, Illian to Mattin, Caemlyn and Cairhien to Elayne and Arad Doman to Alsalam. Mat will become the King of Seanchan and Perrin will become King of Borderlands.
  9. Thanks. Just wished to have him for TG. He had the brains that can only be rivaled by Demandred.
  10. White going through TCoS, I read the entire chapter related to Rand-Sammael confrontation. However, in the end, there has been no sign of Sammael alive or dead. Later on, Demandred speculates that someone "impersonating" Sammael has resurfaced in the Blight. As we know that many Ogier steddings have been engulfed by the Blight and Moiraine has mentioned Gateways there. Moreover, there was a gateway in Shadar Logoth, near which Sammael was standing before hell broke loose in the city. Among the Forsaken, I had liked Sammael, Lanfear and Rahvin (Demandred's like depends on AMoL). all these people have been intriguing and secretive, not to mention damaging. Sammael had used every chip in his closet wisely - Graendal, Shaido, statis boxes, Rand's weaknesses and fury. He was, till now, the only Forsaken that actually got under Rand's and the world's skin. Even Moiraine was scared when she realized that one of the Illian's Council-members was Sammael, and she had balefired Be'lal without much ado. I want to know whether RJ or BS has confirmed about Sammael's death, or is this man going to play a very significant role in the end?
  11. In TCoT, Elayne mentions many of her supporters' armies not reaching the gates of Caemlyn. I read through the entire series, but I did not find another mention of these armies, as they were masked by the attacks the city faces. I just want to know where these armies actually went. Have they been mentioned again, or has RJ slipped us a foreshadow?
  12. In ACoS, in Moghedien's PoV, RJ has revealed that Moridin lives outside the pattern. He loves to live there and travel through it. Now is it something that is too odd? As far as we know, the DO is capable of destroying and playing the patterns, but so far we haven't confronted a situation where there is absolutely no pattern at all, except in mindtrapping of Moghedien. After that scene, I don't think I ever heard of Moridin walking outside the pattern. What puzzles me right now is the significance of this fact. Rand tweeks the pattern to his purpose and Moridin lives outside the pattern. This means the prophecies do not actually exist here. This also means that there can be a different fate awaiting for Rand. Which brings me to the scene of confusion. How can you live outside the pattern in the first place, unless you are inside the Bore? Alright, if that is possible, then how will Rand manage to enter this area himself? Is the region Moridin is living in is actually a part of Tel'aran'rhiod that is still unknown?
  13. Please read this post before thinking why I am endorsing the Seanchan. When Seanchan came on Toman Head, it brought peace to the region. The people were scared because of the beasts, but that's alright. The rule was peaceful, everyone was allowed to do what he/she wants, wherever he/she wants to go, thieves, arsonists and murderers were given such judgement that the crime rate had gone down and the trade had started to prosper. In fact, in the end, people started to love them. The argument that Seanchan are aliens of the land is baseless; they are the legacy of Hawkwing who actually owns the world by right, unlike Andor, Tear etc nobles, who just want to play with gold. In TSR, Egeanin feels for the Taraboners even though they were not under the Seanchan. In TGS, Rand acknowledges that Seanchan were better rulers than he was, and had brought smiles on the war-torn countries of Tarabon, Altara and Amadicia. In ToM, Beslan gives his oath to Fortuona because he realises that his people were better under her than under his mother. Love for their empress was high in Seanchan, and so was their respect for her, something that is very difficult to earn. Even Suroth, the darkfriend, wished for her long life. It's clear that damane-attitude of Seanchan will end in AMoL, so why don't you think Seanchan-land is a better idea? Their idea of ruling is great, their love for people is genuine and their power is stable. If Aiel and Seanchan reach to some deal, I think that is the best world that can be possible after TG, allowing Rand to retire to his village, which he always dreamed of, Mat as a carousing king and Perrin as a normal blacksmith as he had wanted. (Who gives a damn to Egwene and Elayne). What do you feel?
  14. Asmodean has been one of the most underplayed Forsaken in WoT so far. He appeared in book 4, when Lanfear mentioned him as Rand's teacher, and was wiped out in book 5. Of all the Forsaken, he has been given the least spotlight; even Be'lal got more than him. It may be because RJ wanted it. However, of all the Forsaken, Asmodean has proved to be more destructive. He brought Trollocs in the Three-Fold Land for the first time, nearly snatched the Aiel from Rand by branding Couladin's arms and created the rift in Aiel that continued to play havoc till Book 11. On the other hand, following was what other Forsaken did: 1. Graendal - Trying to snare Perrin, but failed; 2. Aginor - Tried to steal clean Saidin, and then tried to create rift in Aes Sedai, but failed in both accounts; 3. Balthamael - Tried to steal clean saidin, and then tried to bring rift in Black Tower, but failed; 4. Be'lal - Tried to get Callandor, but failed; 5. Ishamael - Tried to turn the ta'veren, but failed; 6. Lanfear - The biggest failure; 7. Semirhage - Apart from traumatising Rand, did nothing noteworthy; 8. Mesaana - Tried to take on White Tower, but failed to leave a long-lasting impact; 9. Moghedien - Another underplayed Forsaken, she tore Birgitte off TAR, tormented Nynaeve and did crimes that have long-lasting impact on the victims' minds. 10. Sammael - Tried to snare Rand, but failed; 11. Rahvin - Tried to control Andor and Cairhien, and left long-lasting impact in Civil War that ensued; 12. Demandred - No idea From the above list, it is quite clear that Asmodean has been most effective in his tactics than others; he virtually reduced the Aiel-numbers till the end. This brings me to his relationship with Lanfear. In TSR, when he was defeated, he said something very interesting to Lanfear: '... I came here for you.' Later on, when Lanfear decided to leave him in Rand's hands, he said this: '... Please Mierin! Please!' As far as I have seen in the entire series till now, no Forsaken mentioned the other by his/her old name, but by the names he/she donned after going over the dark. These words are too less, and made in a situation that rendered them nearly insignificant, but the fact remains. Asmodean named Lanfear almost like a lover and a friend, rather than a Forsaken asking another Forsaken for help. Even Demandred and Sammael knew each other, but they never mentioned the other but by their Forsaken name. This brings us to the dark prophecy in TGH: "Daughter of the Night, she walks again. The ancient war, she yet fights. Her new lover she seeks, who shall serve her and die, yet serve still. Who shall stand against her coming? The Shining Walls shall kneel. Blood feeds blood. Blood calls blood. Blood is, and blood was, and blood shall ever be. The man who channels stands alone. He gives his friends for sacrifice. Two roads before him, one to death beyond dying, one to life eternal. Which will he choose? Which will he choose? What hand shelters? What hand slays? (refrain) Luc came to the Mountains of Dhoom. Isam waited in the high passes. The hunt is now begun. The Shadow's hounds now course, and kill. One did live, and one did die, but both are.3 The Time of Change has come. (refrain) The Watchers wait on Toman's Head. The seed of the Hammer burns the ancient tree. Death shall sow, and summer burn, before the Great Lord comes. Death shall reap, and bodies fail, before the Great Lord comes. Again the seed slays ancient wrong, before the Great Lord comes. Now the Great Lord comes. (refrain)" Check the bold part. It says that Lanfear seeks her "new lover" who shall serve her and die, and serve her still. Asmodean served her in the Waste, died and, I believe, he'll return to serve her again. DO won't leave Asmodean to death alone, like he didn't let Lanfear die. Asmodean's treachery was worse, having handed Rand weapons DO never wanted. This makes me believe that either DO has lied to the Forsaken about not ressurecting Asmodean, or he'll be resurrecting him in AMoL for the last act. In short, from what I have seen so far, Asmodean is all set to play an important role still, as he's the only Forsaken who has not been killed by Balefire and is not ressurected. Moreover, he's the one who has made the biggest impact in the series so far, something even Mesaana can't compete with. What do you think? Is Asmodean done, or is there anything left for him to do yet?
  15. There are many good moments in WoT, but following are the moments I have segregated as the best - in my opinion - in terms of emotions: 1. Mystery - Rand, Loial and Hurin in the alternate world in TGH, and all the Forsaken scenes. 2. Anger - Treatment faced by Egwene in TGH, and Rand's imprisonment in LoC. 3. Sorrow - Lan's departure in TFoH. 4. Humor - Nynaeve's PoV in Samara in TFoH and Mat's scenes with Tuon 5. Loss - Verin's death in TGS and Asmodean's death 6. Emotional - Forging of Perrin's Hammer in ToM, wolves coming to Perrin's aid in EoTW and TDR, Aviendha's viewing in ToM, Rand's viewing in TSR, Cleansing of Saidin, Rand's scene on Dragonmount in TGS, Perrin's scene of Dragonmount in ToM and Rand in Maradon in ToM 7. Horror - EoTW prologue and Rand's treatment of Tam in TGS 8. Strong scenes - Rand after reincarnation in ToM 9. Adrenaline scenes - Rand-Sammael in TCoS, Nynaeve-Moghedien in TFoH, attack on WT in ToM and scenes in the last of TSR. 10. Pity - Liandrin's shielding Only a small list, but there are scenes I liked the most. I know many will disagree with me on Asmodean, but his death really gave me a sense of pity and loss, as he was one of the Forsaken whom I had started to like because of his sense of humor and timing.
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