Demandred

[mb]

The Land of the Madmen can be ruled out.

How?

[Cybertrolloc]

Thinking about it a little more.

 

Dem with a handlebar mustache and a translucent veil, that's just too awesome not to happen. "You'll pay Lew MMPHerin!!!"

[Leyrann]

The Land of the Madmen can be ruled out as a place where Dem lives, because the person he assumes to be, is mentioned somewhere in book one til ten. NO ONE of the Land of the Madmen is mentioned.

[mb]

Demandred's alias mentioned in first 10 books?

Where is that told?

[Leyrann]

Ruhira Sedai: We know who almost all the Forsaken are, except maybe Mesaana and Demandred. Should we be able to work out who they are?

 

RJ: Ummm.. Yeah.

 

Marcon, Columbus, OH, May 2001 - Sorilea reporting

 

A quote from 2001. How can we figure out who he is, if he isn't mentioned? And because the date, we know he is mentioned between book 1 and 9. So before CoT.

[Leyrann]

It seems I ruled out the Asha'man. I looked on the Wheel of Time Wikia page of the Asha'man, and if the list on this page is up to date, and I think so (because there are people of Two Rivers in the list, and I'm sure these only appear in ToM), then no one of them who is mentioned did not appear, or (only) appear in TGS. If I have seen no evidence against this in around 12 hours and 30 minutes (when I will be here again), I'm going to delete the Asha'man from the possibilities.

[Finnssss22]

We have been told that there are clues to Demandred's identity or maybe his where abouts would be a better was of putting it.

We have been told that it is possible to figure it all out but also that it would be much harder than figuring out who killed Asmo or who Messaana was.

[Southpaw89]

King Roedran not showing up at the Fields of Merrilor at the end of ToM raises enough red flags alone

[Durinax]

King Roedran not showing up at the Fields of Merrilor at the end of ToM raises enough red flags alone

especially for a leader who is trying to make murandy into a truly unified country with more power

[Leyrann]

I summed up all nations of Randland, and it seems there is only one someone who did not appear has power - Murandy. And because the "my rule is secure" and the (hinted) uniting of Murandy, it seems the only place where Demandred can be. Here the nations which are known who is in charge:

 

The borderlands - Ethinelle, Tenobia, Easar, Paitar.

Cairhien, Andor - Elayne.

Tear - Darlin (beneath Rand).

Illian - Gregorin (beneath Rand).

Ebou Dar - Beslan (Beneath Fortuona).

Amadicia, Tarabon (Fortuona).

Arad Doman - No one/Rand/Alsalam (is he in charge already?).

 

So only Murandy is left. All those countries have someone in power who appeared on screen, in most cases, much, too much to not know if someone is using them.

 

Anyone disagree?

[SylvanFox]

I summed up all nations of Randland, and it seems there is only one someone who did not appear has power - Murandy. And because the "my rule is secure" and the (hinted) uniting of Murandy, it seems the only place where Demandred can be. Here the nations which are known who is in charge:

 

The borderlands - Ethinelle, Tenobia, Easar, Paitar.

Cairhien, Andor - Elayne.

Tear - Darlin (beneath Rand).

Illian - Gregorin (beneath Rand).

Ebou Dar - Beslan (Beneath Fortuona).

Amadicia, Tarabon (Fortuona).

Arad Doman - No one/Rand/Alsalam (is he in charge already?).

 

So only Murandy is left. All those countries have someone in power who appeared on screen, in most cases, much, too much to not know if someone is using them.

 

Anyone disagree?

 

Sounds good. Just to add to it, Roedran is mentioned in LoC as being unambitious, yet later he suddenly wants to rent the Band of the Red Hand and unite Murandy? Doesn't that seem VERY ambitious considering Murandy hasn't ever really had a strong central government?

[mb]

The Land of the Madmen can be ruled out as a place where Dem lives, because the person he assumes to be, is mentioned somewhere in book one til ten. NO ONE of the Land of the Madmen is mentioned.

repeating my response::

 

Demandred's alias mentioned in first 10 books?

Where is that told?

 

 

First 10 books, I recall a similar comment but for Mesaana and not for Demandred.

[Leyrann]

Ruhira Sedai: We know who almost all the Forsaken are, except maybe Mesaana and Demandred. Should we be able to work out who they are?

 

RJ: Ummm.. Yeah.

 

Marcon, Columbus, OH, May 2001 - Sorilea reporting

 

Does this quote make it clear, mb? To know who he is, he has to be mentioned in the first nine books. Not even ten, nine. This quote was from before CoT.

 

O, and indeed, Sylvan Fox, it sounds very ambitious. I think it is one of the strongest reasons.

[Leyrann]

Is there a consensus, or is everyone just too lazy to discuss further? I'm sure there are more characters not ruled out already. And I'm also pretty sure I'm not the only one who wants to be sure who Demandred is. So if anyone knows another possibility...

 

O, and I don't have time to edit the poll before 28 or 29 July.

[Cybertrolloc]

"Ummm, yeah?" Marcon...Q&A session? Hardly something you'd want to hang your hat on, even if it turns out 120% right.

 

Wikia.com clears all ashamen of being Dem? Yay!

 

Wake me up when the discussion actually starts. And maybe take it here http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/8065-wheres-waldi-mean-demandred/

[mb]

Working out who he is does not necessarily need a mention of his alias.

One way could be through a process of elimination.

[Leyrann]

If his alias isn't mentioned, every person in Randland who did not appear could be Demandred. It could be Kari al'Thors brother (if she had one). Because he did not appear. It could also be some blacksmith in Illian. As long as he did not appear. So he has to be mentioned. We have no evidence, so we have to eliminate all possibilities except for one. We can't do this with every person in Randland.

[Elan Tedronai]

does it really matter who he is? what the hell has he done for the better part of 6 books? The biggest disappointment of the forsaken. Even lowly asmodean has done something of worth. whereas Mr 'Almost, nearly man' was hiding behind aliases throughout the series

[UGAShadow]

does it really matter who he is? what the hell has he done for the better part of 6 books? The biggest disappointment of the forsaken. Even lowly asmodean has done something of worth. whereas Mr 'Almost, nearly man' was hiding behind aliases throughout the series

 

 

 

He has to have done some big things. The Dark One was too pleased with him at the end of LoC for him not to have done something spectacular.

[True Source Creator]

does it really matter who he is? what the hell has he done for the better part of 6 books? The biggest disappointment of the forsaken. Even lowly asmodean has done something of worth. whereas Mr 'Almost, nearly man' was hiding behind aliases throughout the series

You're very redundant.

[Bluedust9]

does it really matter who he is? what the hell has he done for the better part of 6 books? The biggest disappointment of the forsaken. Even lowly asmodean has done something of worth. whereas Mr 'Almost, nearly man' was hiding behind aliases throughout the series

You're very redundant.

 

Trolls have to be, to be effective in annoying and enraging people.

[Tainayndra]

I was such a Taimandred fan —so much so that I used to think RJ changed the story so Demandred sometimes impersonates (instead of is) Mazrim Taim. Heh. But Taim's a main character; hardly someone who wasn't mentioned directly through most of the series.

 

...so now I'm thinking Dem. has been some random dude in the Whitecloaks. Amadicia's definitely in the south of the main continent; and the Whitecloaks are a ready-made army.

 

I've always wondered what Dem. could do with knowledge of Rand/Elayne early in the series. It's funny how Morgase's capture by the Children gave Elayne the throne, and eventually raised Galad to Lord Commander. Essentially, the Whitecloaks have raised two Damodreds to positions of importance which influence Rand. Pretty amazing given how ineffective Whitecloaks seem.

 

But mainly, I don't see Demandred's secret "army" throughout the series coming from the outside (Seanchan; Madmen; red-cloaked Aiel) and being effective against the DR. It's plausible, but I think a trojan horse strategy would be way more effective (and more like Demandred's supposed "style"). Plus it would allow Dem. to have close proximity to Rand & Co (unlike being off-continent).

 

(Not to mention, it's funny to think of "Children of the Light" unknowingly serving the DO — they've always reminded me of the KKK.)

[Asbrodean]

what if hes one of the Aiel........

[Elan Tedronai]

does it really matter who he is? what the hell has he done for the better part of 6 books? The biggest disappointment of the forsaken. Even lowly asmodean has done something of worth. whereas Mr 'Almost, nearly man' was hiding behind aliases throughout the series

You're very redundant.

 

Trolls have to be, to be effective in annoying and enraging people.

 

 

and yet people cannot even muster one thing Mr nearly man did in the space of 6 books. Like i said once and i will say it again. It's not trolling if its the truth.

 

and the poor sod of a forsaken will meet his end in an equally pointless fashion. Barid bel maidar, the real forsaken died 3,000 years ago. The current one is just an imitation.

[Cybertrolloc]

Having a brain, I know your claim can't be directly refuted. However, can you think of a better way to portray Demandred? What would you have had him do to make the series better?

 

I'm no RJ/BS apologist, there's plenty of missteps in WoT.

 

We have accounts that he's competent and has done big things back in the day (LTT memory). We have PoV to know he's egotistical if not a mono-maniacal narcissist (that's probably redundant). We have his LoC bookend pieces where he's in favor but then Moridin comes in and takes the limelight (and we're not sure of what he did in LoC). He didn't put in a stellar performance at the Cleansing, but not horrible.

 

So what makes you so sure that this can't be salvaged at all? It's certainly possible to bring him in at the end for good light side oh shit moments and suggest that it was knowable beforehand by referencing some small background details.