Most under-rated book in series

[sandoz12]

Ok, here I am interested in which book you think is the most under-rated in the series by the general fandom. I don't expect to see Lord of Chaos or The Shadown Rising score highly since they are both so highly rated that they can't really be regarded as under-rated - but you may beg to differ and if so go for it just explain your rationale.

 

I am going for The Fires of Heavan. I think this is a great book with many epic scenes eg. the battle of Cairhien, Lanfear/Moiraine at docks, Rand's fight with Rahvin. The one draw-back to this book is the whole stupid wondergirl circus sideshow. If it weren't for that I think it would in general be rated higher. But as it is I think it deserves to be rated higher than it generally is.

 

So now I want to hear from you. Which books do you think fans don't give due credit to?

[Southpaw89]

I'm gonna go for Winter's Heart because I've seen some people bash it before. I thought it was a great book with the cleansing at the ending, Mat's story is always interesting, Far Madding was a very fascinating city, Taim being his interesting self, etc.

[sandoz12]

I'm gonna go for Winter's Heart because I've seen some people bash it before. I thought it was a great book with the cleansing at the ending, Mat's story is always interesting, Far Madding was a very fascinating city, Taim being his interesting self, etc.

Yeah good call. WH gets a lot of (unfair imo) bashing - though actually saying that I didn't particularly enjoy first time around. Maybe I should have made the poll multiple-selection and allowed users to pick two or three if they wished. Cause WH would definitely be second on my list and TGH third. TGH is a superbly plotted story that moves non-stop - ideal for hooking people into a series, yet I know a lot of people rate it quite lowly.

 

TGS is interesting because I have seen a lot of people rate it highly and also people rate it lowly. I definitely think of it as one of the best books in the series but don't think I can call it under-rated when so many people do rate it highly.

[Sid]

I voted WH, I really liked it when it came out. Mat's plotline was great, and then the Cleansing was even better. If I could vote again, it would be for ACoS (again mostly for the stuff that happens in Ebou Dar).

[David Selig]

The circus is the best part of TFOH. It's so funny (most hilarious sequence in the series by far IMO) and provides plenty of character development for Nynaeve especially.

[sandoz12]

The circus is the best part of TFOH. It's so funny (most hilarious sequence in the series by far IMO) and provides plenty of character development for Nynaeve especially.

Each to their own I guess - I hated it and thought it was just a sideshow. Didn't you prefer the battle for Cairhien? Lanfear and Moiraine? Mat beginning to come to terms with his destiny?

[David Selig]

On the first read I liked them about equally, but the circus gets better with each reread, while for example Lanfear at the docks scene just makes me ever more annoyed at how much of a moron Rand was at the time each time I reread, so I can't enjoy it much. And as much as I like Mat, I don't like that he tried to abandon Rand and only the Pattern's intervention kept him where he was needed to do his part in the battle against the Shadow. I am really not fond of the "reluctant leader" trope, which unfortunately Jordan loved so much.

[sandoz12]

On the first read I liked them about equally, but the circus gets better with each reread, while for example Lanfear at the docks scene just makes me ever more annoyed at how much of a moron Rand was at the time each time I reread, so I can't enjoy it much. And as much as I like Mat, I don't like that he tried to abandon Rand and only the Pattern's intervention kept him where he was needed to do his part in the battle against the Shadow. I am really not fond of the "reluctant leader" trope, which unfortunately Jordan loved so much.

Fair enough and I do agree with you about Mat. But that was what I kind of liked about it was that he couldn't 'escape' even though he wanted to which Rand had already come to terms with.

 

Good point about Rand that scene was infuriating plus how he was trying to hunt Couladin with a sword was totally moronic. His refusal to let the maidens see battle was also annoying and he learnt a cruel form of justice when they died defending him where he thought they would be safe. His treatment of Moiraine in general did annoy me - she would try so hard to help him and he would be so rude to him. I think that is one thing Cadsuane will have done - allow him to appreciate Moiraine (as he did after her death) and I look forward to seeing their future role. He always accused him of trying to manipulate him and yet of all the people in the life she was one of the most straightforward and honest about what she wanted from him.

 

So what book do you think is the most under-rated?

[David Selig]

I'd say PoD. It's not great by any means, but I think it gets too much hate just because there's no Mat in it. Rand's campaign against the Seanchan is really good and "A Time for Iron" is one of the high points of the series for me. The Bowl plotline starts really slowly, but then gets quite good when they finally use it, the Gateway unravelling and the explosion, etc. Egwene's plotline in PoD also nice.

[Suttree]

I'd say PoD. It's not great by any means, but I think it gets too much hate just because there's no Mat in it. Rand's campaign against the Seanchan is really good and "A Time for Iron" is one of the high points of the series for me. The Bowl plotline starts really slowly, but then gets quite good when they finally use it, the Gateway unravelling and the explosion, etc. Egwene's plotline in PoD also nice.

 

+1

 

not to mention the attack on Rand and "A Cup of Sleep"

[Terez]

I am going for The Fires of Heavan. I think this is a great book with many epic scenes eg. the battle of Cairhien, Lanfear/Moiraine at docks, Rand's fight with Rahvin. The one draw-back to this book is the whole stupid wondergirl circus sideshow. If it weren't for that I think it would in general be rated higher. But as it is I think it deserves to be rated higher than it generally is.

I tend to think that most people, like me, consider 4-6 to be the best books of the series, in terms of being packed with goodness.

 

I picked TPOD because there is soooo much hate for that book, particularly among the old-timers who had to wait years for it and even previous books. The biggest complaint is usually that Mat isn't in it, but the Elayne chapters in the beginning of the book also inspire a lot of bitching, and the dark, frustrating ending. Rand's madness draws a lot of gripes.

 

Anyway, I think it's an awesome book, particularly because of Rand's increasing madness, and the drama of the Lews Therin return, the strangely balanced war against the Seanchan in Altara, the POVs of their officers, etc., the Weiramon clues, and I loved the fact that the end wasn't a huge victory for once. I loved the fact that Elayne showed up at the gates of Caemlyn worn out and disheartened, paranoid because of the death of Adeleas. Egwene's bits were awesome, too; the scene where she gains control of the rebel Hall was one of her best moments, and even the Talmanes bit was quite well-played toward future events. And the book ends with her making a gateway for Tar Valon, which is nice drama. And the scene with Fedwin Morr was one of the best in the series; the attack by the renegades helped to give the ending that air of 'oh shit' that I think makes it so good. A very dark book overall, and I dig that.

[capuga]

I voted for Winter's Heart. It's a book that usually ranks pretty high in the least favorite polls but I really enjoyed it. It had plenty of Mat goodness. I liked the Far Madding scenes with Rand (see my sig) and especially like having Rand and Lan together again as I've always liked their dynamic. And the Cleansing was epic. Lots to enjoy. Never really been sure why so many people dislike it.

[sandoz12]

I am going for The Fires of Heavan. I think this is a great book with many epic scenes eg. the battle of Cairhien, Lanfear/Moiraine at docks, Rand's fight with Rahvin. The one draw-back to this book is the whole stupid wondergirl circus sideshow. If it weren't for that I think it would in general be rated higher. But as it is I think it deserves to be rated higher than it generally is.

I tend to think that most people, like me, consider 4-6 to be the best books of the series, in terms of being packed with goodness.

Perhaps you are right (I certainly think books 4-6 are great) - its just that I never see TFoH rate when people list best books or see it mentioned that often so that is why I have come to feel it is underrated, my perception may well be wrong.

[David Selig]

I voted for Winter's Heart. It's a book that usually ranks pretty high in the least favorite polls but I really enjoyed it. It had plenty of Mat goodness. I liked the Far Madding scenes with Rand (see my sig) and especially like having Rand and Lan together again as I've always liked their dynamic. And the Cleansing was epic. Lots to enjoy. Never really been sure why so many people dislike it.

Perrin's chapters are terrible, that would be my guess. ;)

 

Most people disagree, but I find the Cleansing of saidin disappointing. It's really rushed, with little set-up, and the Forsaken are shown to be even bigger buffoons than usual.

[OptimusPrime]

I voted Winters Heart. I think there is a whole lot of stuff in that book that doesnt get anywhere near as much discussion as it deserves.

 

Fires of Heaven would get my second vote. Rahvin himself is underrated in my oppinion. Nobody ever talks about how much he was kicking Rands ass. Best Forsaken death by far IMO.

[Sleeper]

I voted Winters Heart. I think there is a whole lot of stuff in that book that doesnt get anywhere near as much discussion as it deserves.

 

Fires of Heaven would get my second vote. Rahvin himself is underrated in my oppinion. Nobody ever talks about how much he was kicking Rands ass. Best Forsaken death by far IMO.

Rahvin's one of my favorites, that guy would have won the battle against the Light almost single-handedly if it wasn't for Nynaeve.

 

Personally, I voted PoD, because I found the Seanchan campaign to be fascinating. Winter's Heart was good too.

[sandoz12]

I voted for Winter's Heart. It's a book that usually ranks pretty high in the least favorite polls but I really enjoyed it. It had plenty of Mat goodness. I liked the Far Madding scenes with Rand (see my sig) and especially like having Rand and Lan together again as I've always liked their dynamic. And the Cleansing was epic. Lots to enjoy. Never really been sure why so many people dislike it.

Perrin's chapters are terrible, that would be my guess. ;)

Totally agree with this. Didn't enjoy WH that much on first read but on re-reads have really enjoyed it but that is because I always skip the Perrin storyline on re-reads - turns an average book into a good one.

[Cybertrolloc]

Any ideas on how 1st release APoD compares to subsequent? It was pretty bad on typos and misused words, the first book to get the hurried editing process.

[OptimusPrime]

Personally, I voted PoD, because I found the Seanchan campaign to be fascinating. Winter's Heart was good too.

 

Yeah I like it too, I love it how Rand lost to them, and I love how THEY felt like they lost as well. I like pretty much everything involving the Seanchan, they bring a lot to the game. I find that Tuon is creeping up on my list of favorite female characters.

[Shimmer]

I quite liked PoD. Sure there was no Mat - who is my favourite character - but there were some awesome highlights like the Seanchan-Rand battle campaign and possibly one of the best chapters in the whole series was in PoD - 'A Cup of Sleep'.

[Lupy]

I picked TPoD, for reasons mentioned above. I really enjoy crazy-Rand, and this book was some of the best of that.

[Terez]

Most people disagree, but I find the Cleansing of saidin disappointing. It's really rushed, with little set-up, and the Forsaken are shown to be even bigger buffoons than usual.

I was also unfamiliar with this opinion until I found the online fandom. I loved the Cleansing; it was awesome and a half - on my first few re-reads I always made sure to smoke one before reading so as to fully appreciate - and the fact that the Forsaken were buffoons didn't surprise me in the slightest. When I see people complaining about that, I think, 'Really? It took you that long to figure that out?' I loved that we got POVs from so many of them; there were a lot of good tidbits in that, like Demandred's admiration for Rand's 'brilliant' plan, and Verin vs Graendal was badass in a dowdy-old-woman kind of way (like, oooh, Verin is going to throw down!), and Cyndane vs. Alivia, etc. The Eben Hopwil thing might be a foreshadowing for something that happens at the end.

[David Selig]

IIRC I loved the Cleansing on my first read too, but with every reread I find more disappointing. There was so much potential there for a really great scene, but it was mostly wasted IMO.

 

It didn't surprise me the Forsaken were buffoons either (how could it after 9 books of incompetence from them) but I still find it annoying. That's minor problem though. I am far more disappointed that this epic event only got one chapter and the actual battle at Shadar Logoth was described in something like 5 pages in total. Yet we get whole chapters of way less important things described in great detail in the same book.

 

Also I dislike that apparently the Aes Sedai and Asha'man became instant experts at linking with each other and using the part of the power they aren't familiar with - so much so that some of the Aes Sedai kicked the butts of the Forsaken using saidin. Explaining this would've been much better use of the pages than Perrin brooding for 2 chapters or 10 pages describing the streets of Caemlyn, to name two examples.

[Sid]

Also I dislike that apparently the Aes Sedai and Asha'man became instant experts at linking with each other and using the part of the power they aren't familiar with - so much so that some of the Aes Sedai kicked the butts of the Forsaken using saidin.

 

Well, of the three Forsaken using Saidin at the Cleansing, Osan'gar never ran into anyone and got blasted from afar by a large circle including Callandor, Demandred happened upon a circle of one man and two women, with the man leading, and Aran'gar was overconfident. She was planning on the element of surprise and lost it, finding herself up against a circle of three women and a man, which was likely more than she could handle flat-footed. Also, each group contained an Asha'man that was bonded with one of the Aes Sedai in the group, and they had been practicing linking with each other before they went to Far Madding.

[Kadere]

Crossroads of Twilight of course. Is there a more hated book that actually has plenty to offer? Didn't think so.