Caemlyn battle

[Rufae]

If I'm not mistaken, sealing a waygate is by removing the trefoil leaf compltely from the gate. The only way I can think to get around that is for a channeler to blast it out although the ramificaitons of that could be dangerous considering the time-warping nature of the Ways.

[RandA lThor]

Don't you put all the leaves on one side and then someone can replace them? Also, can't the Ogier use that Talisman of growing thing?

[Barid Bel Medar]

I am not sure if Rand did this to the Caemlyn Waygate.

 

 

LoC,Ch10 - Rand has guards stationed at the Waygates in Caemlyn, Cairhien and Tear, but he worries about all the rest of them.

 

LoC,Ch21 � Rand takes Elder Haman, Covril, Erith and a bunch of Maidens to Shadar Logoth. Haman takes Rand to the Waygate and Rand weaves a deathtrap for Shadowspawn.

 

KoD,Ch20 � Rand sealed the Waygates at Caemlyn, Cairhien, Illian and Tear.

 

 

I am assuming "sealed" means permanently taken the two leaves out. But I find it strange that 1. He first only puts a guard on the Waygates, 2. He doesn't take the leaves out of the the SL Waygate.

 

Eh! I am not sure. I think that you are correct in saying that it has been fully sealed up by removing the two leaves.

 

I suppose this means that someone would have to Blast through the Waygate. Whatever it is, the Shadow knows how to do it, according to Verin.

[Aulduron]

Moirane cut her way through a gate.

[Rufae]

You know, you are right Aulduron. I looked back and yes, she cust through the Fal Dara gate with Fire because the leaf was missing. I guess it can be done. Makes me wish Rand put the anti-Shadowspawn ward on the Camelyn gate as well.

[Barid Bel Medar]

I wonder if that's why Rand did it in the first place. Does he even remember that it has been done? Also, was the second leaf removed on the Fal Dara gate? Not that it would make much difference, I suppose.

 

Now the question is, how are they getting large forces of Shadowspawn through the Ways without Machin Shin killing all of them?

 

It has been hinted at, like the Manor attack, and Moridin saying someone is moving heaps of Shadowspawn through the Ways pretending to be Sammael.

 

Any ideas? My bet is that Demandred has also been "cleansing" the Ways, at least, making it safe for Shadowspawn, which could be very different from any cleansing.

[Kaznen]

Rand laid a "nasty trap" on all the waygates he found by laying a weave on them that wouldn't kill shadow spawn immediately. That is what the problem with the Caemlyn gate is. The trollocs could still enter Caemlyn, burn and pillage for a while before they dropped dead.

 

Or they could get a hold of the dragons, move them into the waygates and the "reinforcements" (trollocs who didn't pass throught the gate) could collect them and take them back to the blight.

[Suttree]

Rand laid a "nasty trap" on all the waygates he found by laying a weave on them that wouldn't kill shadow spawn immediately. That is what the problem with the Caemlyn gate is. The trollocs could still enter Caemlyn, burn and pillage for a while before they dropped dead.

 

IIRC he used a different ward at Caemlyn. Most likely it was disarmed in some way per Verin's letter.

[Rufae]

I would think having a delay would be better than instant kill. If it was instant kill, then the trollos waiting to enter the gate would turn around and survive. With a few minutes delay, you can lure the whole army across the ward and kill them all.

[Durinax]

I would think having a delay would be better than instant kill. If it was instant kill, then the trollos waiting to enter the gate would turn around and survive. With a few minutes delay, you can lure the whole army across the ward and kill them all.

yes but then you also incite riots and mass panic among your population due to shadowspawn walking and their corpses being found

[Trey]

Bah to all this.

 

Olver will lead the band into battle.

[FarShainMael]

Whoopee!!

 

[Trey]

crackpot theory from his last pov....he dashed out of the tent got his horse and gallops for the city....the band races after to protect him= he "lead" them lol

[Maleshub]

I hope Olvar makes it through the battle!

[RandA lThor]

He probably will, I don't think they would kill off Olver, too young and innocent.

[FarShainMael]

He probably will, I don't think they would kill off Olver, too young and innocent.

 

Is that remark tongue-in-cheek..

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/13616-olver-little-bit-creepy/

[RandA lThor]

OK, I mean that everyone loves him, it just doesn't seem like a character to kill off.

[FarShainMael]

Could that be that GRRM-esque moment that was mentioned, I wonder?

[Maleshub]

OK, I mean that everyone loves him, it just doesn't seem like a character to kill off.

 

But imagine Mat's devastation if he comes back from rescuing Moiraine only to find Olvar gone! To avenge him he would take Fortuona by the scruff of the neck and take command of her armies (channelers included); then go to Rand and take command of his armies (Ashaman included); and then he would cleanse the Blight of every last Trolloc and Fade he could find.

[Durinax]

OK, I mean that everyone loves him, it just doesn't seem like a character to kill off.

 

But imagine Mat's devastation if he comes back from rescuing Moiraine only to find Olvar gone! To avenge him he would take Fortuona by the scruff of the neck and take command of her armies (channelers included); then go to Rand and take command of his armies (Ashaman included); and then he would cleanse the Blight of every last Trolloc and Fade he could find.

which would be incredibly stupid, which mat is not.

 

it is one thing to force a battle but like the shienarians say that going into the blight to force battle upon trollocs would be a slaughter

[rand4747]

if you have several thousands channelers and armies of well over a million...

[Deadsy]

if you have several thousands channelers and armies of well over a million...

 

this thing that you wrote definitely isn't a...

[Maleshub]

OK, I mean that everyone loves him, it just doesn't seem like a character to kill off.

 

But imagine Mat's devastation if he comes back from rescuing Moiraine only to find Olvar gone! To avenge him he would take Fortuona by the scruff of the neck and take command of her armies (channelers included); then go to Rand and take command of his armies (Ashaman included); and then he would cleanse the Blight of every last Trolloc and Fade he could find.

which would be incredibly stupid, which mat is not.

 

it is one thing to force a battle but like the shienarians say that going into the blight to force battle upon trollocs would be a slaughter

if you have several thousands channelers and armies of well over a million...

 

This is all fantasy and wild thought; but what the heck; let's make a discussion of it:

 

What Rand4747 said!

 

The Shienarians can muster 50-100K troops without channelers. Sending those into the Blight would be suicide.

 

But this is different:

- Seanchan: 400K soldiers + 1000 - 2000 damane (battle damane)

- Tear: 100K troops

- Illian: 100K troops

- Andor: 100K troops

- Cairhien: 50K troops

- Perrin's army (Ghealdan, Mayene, Two-Rivers): 70K troops

- Unity of the Border: 200K troops

- Black Tower: 1000 Ashaman

- Aiel: 300K spears + 1000 - 2000 Wise Ones

- Sea Folk: several hundred windfinders

 

In this "fantasy" setting, Mat would have nearly 1.5 million soldiers and 3000 - 5000 channelers (all of them battle channelers). And I've left the WT out of it.

 

Putting that force in a campaign to cleanse the Blight would be an epic bloodbath; but Mat would achieve his objectives.

[aunt_pol]

Silly question this, but I'll plead baby brain and press on regardless.

 

Why does everyone assume Olver's a raging psychopath? Ok he's annoyed with Mat for going without him, but it's a long way from annoyance to betrayal and/or murder. His POV read, to me, as perfectly regular child's fantasy rambling, not a huge desire to harm the closest thing he has to family.

 

From the incredibly awkwardly written jacket blurb, we learn that Mat is headed off to meet up with Tuon, presumably after all the shouting t the Fiemd of Merrilor. It seems like Talmanes and Olver are Caemlyn's best hope.

[Durinax]

OK, I mean that everyone loves him, it just doesn't seem like a character to kill off.

 

But imagine Mat's devastation if he comes back from rescuing Moiraine only to find Olvar gone! To avenge him he would take Fortuona by the scruff of the neck and take command of her armies (channelers included); then go to Rand and take command of his armies (Ashaman included); and then he would cleanse the Blight of every last Trolloc and Fade he could find.

which would be incredibly stupid, which mat is not.

 

it is one thing to force a battle but like the shienarians say that going into the blight to force battle upon trollocs would be a slaughter

if you have several thousands channelers and armies of well over a million...

 

This is all fantasy and wild thought; but what the heck; let's make a discussion of it:

 

What Rand4747 said!

 

The Shienarians can muster 50-100K troops without channelers. Sending those into the Blight would be suicide.

 

But this is different:

- Seanchan: 400K soldiers + 1000 - 2000 damane (battle damane)

- Tear: 100K troops

- Illian: 100K troops

- Andor: 100K troops

- Cairhien: 50K troops

- Perrin's army (Ghealdan, Mayene, Two-Rivers): 70K troops

- Unity of the Border: 200K troops

- Black Tower: 1000 Ashaman

- Aiel: 300K spears + 1000 - 2000 Wise Ones

- Sea Folk: several hundred windfinders

 

In this "fantasy" setting, Mat would have nearly 1.5 million soldiers and 3000 - 5000 channelers (all of them battle channelers). And I've left the WT out of it.

 

Putting that force in a campaign to cleanse the Blight would be an epic bloodbath; but Mat would achieve his objectives.

that is assuming all those people would fight to cleanse the blight and the shadow had no channellers