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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Other Species Channelers?


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In LoC, page 948 (American paperback), when Perrin is coming to rescue Rand, Loial says that he thinks that there are more than six Aes Sedai guarding Rand. One of the books he talk about to support this idea is called "A Study of Men, Women and the One Power among Humans" (emphasis mine). Now, there are two ways the phrase "among humans" can be taken, the boring way and the interesting way. The boring way is that it could also refer to the One Power simply as the force that powers the Wheel. The other thing it could mean is that there is also the OP among other species, presumably Ogier, since an Ogier wrote the book. If that's true, it could mean that there could be Ogier, animal or even Shadowspawn channelers. Does anyone know if there are any quotes for/against this?

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In LoC, page 948 (American paperback), when Perrin is coming to rescue Rand, Loial says that he thinks that there are more than six Aes Sedai guarding Rand. One of the books he talk about to support this idea is called "A Study of Men, Women and the One Power among Humans" (emphasis mine). Now, there are two ways the phrase "among humans" can be taken, the boring way and the interesting way. The boring way is that it could also refer to the One Power simply as the force that powers the Wheel. The other thing it could mean is that there is also the OP among other species, presumably Ogier, since an Ogier wrote the book. If that's true, it could mean that there could be Ogier, animal or even Shadowspawn channelers. Does anyone know if there are any quotes for/against this?

 

well I do know Ogier cant channel.

 

Knife of Dreams book tour 30 October 2005 - Emma reporting

 

Q: In any Age, in any Turning, have the Ogier been able to channel?

RJ: No.

 

Shadowspawn cant channel either. At least not Trollocs, Myrddraal, Darkhounds, Drakghar. There could be some crazy blight-spawn that can, not sure.

 

As for others, like animals. I would say no to animals, but I suppose there is no supporting evidence that says 100% no, however, I doubt you could find anything to say a cow or such could channel . :biggrin:

 

As for other species, like the Finns etc. Well, the Finns themselves cant channel, but I suppose there COULD be some channeling species on another random world, or parallel world.

 

However, from what we have seen in the series, humans are the only known species able to channel the OP.

 

(I should note that the OP affects others, like the Finns, in different ways)

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Broadening the debate

 

Ogier can't channel but they can become warders (though they wouldn't want to). This implies they can also be placed under Compulsion. Maybe important if say, the GLoD has subverted the Seanchan gardeners or some Wotland ogiers.

 

Fades can sort of channel, or at least sense the source (they itch if somebody is holding the OP nearby) and be drawn into circles/links, which have strange effects, or become warders (though being bonded to a fade would drive anybody nuts).

 

The Finn live in a different world with different physical laws - we don't know how much of their powers are drawn from that set of different laws and how much is inherent to them. (I mean would a Finn of either species be able to use OP in WoTland or to "suck" OP, assuming that they can come to WoTland at all? Also would a human be able to suck OP in finnland, assuming the human knew how to do so?)

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Somewhere told that Shadar Haran could channel. Do not remember where.

 

At least 4 creatures can detect the One Power:: cats/dogs, myrddraal/gholam

Detecting does not necessarily mean able to channel.

I guess ogier can also detect; though am not entirely sure.

 

Do not remember anywhere telling any other non-human creature that could either channel or detect.

Edited by mb
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i think animals, following the Creator's plan without exception (lacking the illusion of free will, and being part of nature instead of opposing it, or trying to control it, as humans tend to do), would have a natural/instinctive channeling ability to some extent. the prey to hide, the predator to find. the ability to sense storms, earthquakes, etc. the ability to communicate with one another. not channeling by weaving elements of power in a mindful, conscious way, but rather by being inherently tapped into that power as a state of being.

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they probably have talents that sort of come from the true source but they cant channel it. Some sort of link to the true source that is different to the link used for channeling (where thats refered to as the one power), call channeling a talent in itself, and each different talent would link differently. The true source provides the source of the talent. So the talents come from the same source but work entirely apart, the tallents don't use any of the path that the one power uses.

 

Anyway animals may have some tallents that humans don't and humans ones that animals don't, sam applys for other beings like Ogier, shadowspawn are hard to place because they are made from/with the one power so anything they are capable of doing is probably something that the one power is doing for them or talents that the animals that make them up (in the case of trollocs and parheps others) have.

 

So its possible that only humans have the talent for channeling, again trollocs fit in odd because they are also part human and the myrdraal aswell) They may have so little human left that they are incapable of manifesting that talent or it just does not exist in their genes.

Edited by rand4747
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Shaidar seems to have displayed channeling ability a couple of times. He burns a spears in ACoS and he produces a black light globe somewhere in TPoD, I think. Plus he also shields Darkfriends and Forsaken.

But SH is not a "normal" Fade.

We do know that normal fades can link both with trollocs and human channelers.

So there's something there.

Many animals seem to be able to detect channeling ability - dogs, cats, wolves. That doesn't mean they can channel.

Insofar as I've thought about this, it might be a plot device that gives Perrin in "Young Bull mode" some sort of radar versus hidden channelers. Also I've wondered whether the wolf ability to detect channelers works even on a woman who has deliberately masked her channeling ability?

The Ogier abilities are mysterious - Loial ids the three as ta'veren - we don't know how he does this exactly. The ogier seem to have some ability to "see" souls perhaps.

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I think the book just distinguished 'among humans' because they were making a point of it being a study of humans (as opposed to Ogier, not that Ogier can channel), rather than making a point of studying the talent only among humans and not among other species. It's funny because Team Moiraine brought up dolphins channeling on Twitter in preparation for the loony theories panel.

Edited by Terez
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i think animals, following the Creator's plan without exception (lacking the illusion of free will, and being part of nature instead of opposing it, or trying to control it, as humans tend to do), would have a natural/instinctive channeling ability to some extent. the prey to hide, the predator to find. the ability to sense storms, earthquakes, etc. the ability to communicate with one another. not channeling by weaving elements of power in a mindful, conscious way, but rather by being inherently tapped into that power as a state of being.

 

Contradictions in bold.

Edited by FarShainMael
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i don't see those things as contradictions, but please, feel free to do so yourself.

 

The contradictions arise from talking about free will as an 'illusion' and then granting people the ability to 'oppose', to 'control', or to 'do', in a 'mindful, conscious way'. Without free will none of that is possible. Things would just happen, without the person's control, because they would not have any.

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'k, i just typed way too may way off topic words responding to your post, FSM, and trying to explain my personal beliefs re free will and the impossibility of opposing the ultimate will of the Creator, but i have to delete them all because the off topic bus will drive off the cliff if i don't. let's just agree to disagree, and feel free to think me a silly twit.

 

and, what Enteri says. the answer to the topic is, "possibly."

Edited by cindy
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I actually think that myrrdraal are channellers (or would be if they where human)

They can't.

tehy do have characteristics of channellers

1) they can do abnormal things

2) lower birth rate

3) appear at random from normal breeding stock

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I think the topic of dogs and cats is simply that they can sense the source. Dogs are more attuned to Saidin, however, and Cats to Saidar.

Both sense both halves of the Source just fine, as evident by their treatment of channelers of both kinds.

 

I actually think that myrrdraal are channellers (or would be if they where human)

They can't.

tehy do have characteristics of channellers

1) they can do abnormal things

2) lower birth rate

3) appear at random from normal breeding stock

But it's not the same breeding stock. Channelers are born from humans, Myrrdraal from trollocs. For that matter, Min does abnormal things, as does Perrin (an Mat, really). None of them channel the True Source, though.

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Of course there is :wink:

Female channelers know how to control something by yielding to it (as you have to do with a cat - it doesn't respond well to lording), while dogs are more naturally submissive to their human masters, thus more comfortable to saidin wielders.

 

No, you didn't read that one wrong. I'm full of it. :tongue:

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