Perrin & Faile

[Sakaea]

I didn't find a topic specifically for this, and I'm curious.

Why do so many of you seem to hate Faile? I always rather liked her, and the relationship she has with Perrin. But it seems like she's just about the most hated character in Randland. So, please, explain. *waits patiently*

[jemron]

In my opinion, Perrin was cool until Faile came a long. Although, he was actually quite cool in TSR. After that... not so much.

[Pilz]

I like her OK. But Perrin's personality is not very compatible with the way Saldeans like their men to act.

 

But mainly, when she was captured, Perrin got obsessive and annoying. Then it took about 3 books to get her rescued, and even then things weren't right until ToM.

[Tiinker]

Cos she needs to stop sticking her big ass nose where its not wanted. It's always hard to find reasons why you don't like someone without sounding a bit like a whiny sod :p

 

I think the overall opinion is that she killed Perrins character and that we're all pissed because we were forced to read about her boring rescue for about four books..

[Tiinker]

I got ninja'd

[Kidicaris]

For me it's a mix of the fact that Faile was insufferable and that it's hard to read chapters filled with Perrin being perpetually confused. That whole love triangle Perrin walking on nails thing got old fast and then Faile managed to get kidnapped and became a huge liability for the Light, because now Perrin has to jump through flaming hoops to save her when we all have been told he's a key figure in the war against the Shadow. Perrin's chapters highlighted his personality in negative ways and for me Faile was to blame.

 

Perrin's single minded mission to save her--at face value, should have been heroic, but it just came off irritating and boring. Factor in that idiocy of Maighdin (seriously woman? you've caused so much trouble for Rand by running off to serve tea), Sevanna (no way the Wise ones would have followed you and your b***h dead hubby) and Galina (because RJ decided to throw in the kitchen sink too) into those Perrin-Faile chapters and what you have is a perfect storm of liability, incompetence and pointless plot thread.

 

I just kept asking myself, "why am I reading this part?"

[Guest cindy.]

in thinking about this, i realized i don't hate her. i just really hate the story arc. it went on forever and ever, and it was repetitive, and boring. and did i mention it went on forever? i love perrin, and i don't mind faile on her own, really. but i totally zone out on that story when i re-read.

[Sakaea]

Ok, that I get. It did take Faile way too long to get rescued, I agree. So, I think I understand more now.

[HighWiredSith]

In terms of actual length of time, I didn't figure Faile was a prisoner more than a month. The events that take place from the Battle of Dumai's Wells to the beginning of Tom (which is where I am now), cover, roughly from my estimate, about five months. I found the whole speed up of events annoying for a number of reasons, the least of which is it made many things seem unrealistic.

 

But as for Faile - she's one of the few main female characters I like. For one thing, she seems to suffer from the same imperfection that all of the male characters suffer from. I get so sick of Egwene, Elaine, Avienda, and to a lesser extent Nynaeve presented as utterly righteous, completely wise, unbending, heroic figures whose every decision is unquestioningly the right one despite the fact that they are making decisions and moving forward events that would confound even the wisest of men and women. Faile seems to struggle with her position and with her new relationship and doesn't seem above making a brash decision or two.

[Guest cindy.]

(the speed up may have been less annoying to people who had loooooong waits for books)(but, ya, it's a little disconcerting)

[David Selig]

But as for Faile - she's one of the few main female characters I like. For one thing, she seems to suffer from the same imperfection that all of the male characters suffer from. I get so sick of Egwene, Elaine, Avienda, and to a lesser extent Nynaeve presented as utterly righteous, completely wise, unbending, heroic figures whose every decision is unquestioningly the right one despite the fact that they are making decisions and moving forward events that would confound even the wisest of men and women. Faile seems to struggle with her position and with her new relationship and doesn't seem above making a brash decision or two.

You really think the main female characters in this way? They've managed to commit a whole bunch of blunders, get themselves captured a zillion times and made plenty of other mistakes.

 

As for Faile, I don't exactly hate her, but there are some things about her that I dislike a lot. Her extreme jealousy for example. Not so much towards Berelain, since at least there she had a good reason for it, and Perrin provoked her intentionally at the start, but towards other women. One particular incident that comes to mind was when Perrin met Min and Rand in Caemlyn in LoC. Faile immediately took Min aside and told her to stay away from Perrin, without either of Perrin or Min having given a reason to be jealous.

 

The way she tricked Loial to give his word and used his honesty to torment Perrin during the travel through the Ways from Tear to Two Rivers was another point against her. This whole sequence is one of the few I usually skip in the early books, it's cringeworthy due to the thickheadedness and petty pride of both Perrin and Faile.

 

The way she tried to distance Perrin from rand at a time when Rand needed a close friend who see him as a human, not as the Dragon and someone you can exploit for favours,just so Perrin may get his supposed due as Lord, also rubbed me the wrong way.

 

And of course, it doesn't help that Faile is involved in by far the most annoying major plotline in the series. Though for that I mostly blame her husband, his extreme emo and his "Only Faile mattered" mantra repeated 10 times per page.

Edited April 11, 2011 by David Selig

[negativejuan]

Why I dislike Faile. Hm.

 

She has no personality. It's that simple. She's one of those characters that I wonder what her motivation is or what her actual grand plan is. We met her and she was trying to prove her independence and running away from her father or whatever, and then takes it upon herself to wind Perrin up. She finally gets her talons into him and bullies him around trying to control him.

 

I think mostly it's the stupid Saldean women. She wants Perrin to fight back to show he's a man but she wants to control everything. They have this burning conscious desire to be dominated but control everything at the same time. It's to me. She really annoys me.

 

I was hoping that when she got kidnapped she'd meet a grisly death and Perrin would be in a rage and turn to the darkside. Instead he had to rescue her when Rand needed him. Bleh.

[UncleButcher1980]

Faile is simply awesome. Only the Creator stands above her. Maybe.

[yoniy0]

I think it's because she's 16. Immature girls just tick me. She gets better though, and I don't really dislike her after ACoS (though I hate the fact that their plot line took an epilogue and two whole books to reach a culmination. Was it '99-'05? It sure felt like years).

[nojnomad]

Sakaea,

Everyone needs someone to hate.

 

Some readers are not in a place in life where they can appreciate a strong and confident character. Many of the leading female persons in Jordan’s world are infuriatingly confident sometimes while the male characters are shown through POV to be less self assured. The fact that most of the strong (this is only the case for the strong) female characters often not shown to have any self doubting introspection is threatening. I find this chafing in any character male of female and the characters become more real when we get to see moments of indecision or self doubt. Even the forsaken get more fail/doubt time that some of RJ's girls.

 

If is wasn't Faile it would be Egg. or Nyn.

 

Fixing bad spelling so my mother would be proud.

Edited April 12, 2011 by nojnomad

[Zentari]

Sakaea,

Everyone needs someone to hate.

 

Some readers are not in a place in life where they can appreciate a strong and confident character. Many of the leading female persons in Jordan’s world are infuriatingly confident sometimes while the male characters are shown through POV to be less self assured. The fact that most of the strong (this is only the case for the strong) female characters often not shown to have any self doubting introspection is threatening. I find this chafing in any character mail of female and the characters become more real when we get to see moments of indecision or self doubt. Even the forsaken get more fail/doubt time that some of RJ's girls.

 

If is wasn't Faile it would be Egg. or Nyn.

It never get's old,that argument.Despite the fact that it has been blasted out of the water again and again, it just get's re-heated and applied again like wonderglue to whatever argument you may be having.

[yoniy0]

Oh no. There was a time I got easily crossed with Nyn and Egg, but I could never hate them. Nynaeve, because she's awesome. Egwene, well, you get to know her through Rand's eyes, and he loved her. She earned it by the way she accepted his channeling (Nynaeve earned a few points there as well). Whatever she does next, I can't forget that.

 

BTW I think it's strange the way Elayne and Min just take it in stride. They didn't even struggle with it. It makes it less real, somehow, and therefore less impressing.

[Luckystrike]

The Randland women are the most hated characters in the world it seems. And for reasons which to me makes the character. All that thinking men are stupid etc...

 

I always keep thinking that RJ lived in my town and went to my school. The women in Randland (and men) feels incredibly real; all the "flaws" and manners - bullseye. All my experiences with them, but deep and shallow is written in WoT.

Then I came to this board and every female character is hated. I was very confused. I understood about being irritated by them, but even to feel that made it feel real.

 

Now about Faile; I really like her. Tricking Loial and giving Perrin a hard-time somehow defined Failes wild and manipulative side. Then the "wives can do things their husband can't"-thing make her much more interesting, and more mature; we see her taking on some real responsibility.

 

About the love thing; the only relationship that has real depth. The almost-cheating-thing between Faile and the Aiel guy, was great writing.

 

But the rescue-plot went on too long.

Edited April 12, 2011 by Luckystrike

[Seeker Matt]

Sakaea,

Everyone needs someone to hate.

 

Some readers are not in a place in life where they can appreciate a strong and confident character. Many of the leading female persons in Jordan’s world are infuriatingly confident sometimes while the male characters are shown through POV to be less self assured. The fact that most of the strong (this is only the case for the strong) female characters often not shown to have any self doubting introspection is threatening. I find this chafing in any character male of female and the characters become more real when we get to see moments of indecision or self doubt. Even the forsaken get more fail/doubt time that some of RJ's girls.

 

If is wasn't Faile it would be Egg. or Nyn.

 

Fixing bad spelling so my mother would be proud.

 

For someone who is apparently “not in a place of life where can appreciate a strong and confident character” at least I don’t make the mistake of speaking for others or baselessly judging them.

 

Strong and confident I appreciate. Self-assured but often wrong and hypocritical with little-to-no introspection I find quite irritating and rather weak.

 

Naturally many of those who “hate” some of the female protagonists in the WoT are male chauvinists.

Edited April 12, 2011 by Seeker Matt

[yoniy0]

@Seeker Matt I don't know how you read that to be a personal criticism of you. Regardless, wildcards or not, I won't let this devolve into a name-calling contest. You were the first to go there, but it ends here (and I mean everyone).

[Duskfire]

Failes awesome. I didnt like her at first, but on my re-reads of the series she has grown on me, much like Cadsuane. I especially liked how she was in ToM. She is maturing along with Perrin and now, they are good together.

[Sakaea]

I found this very interesting. And I've agreed with, or at least understood most of the points that have been made. Thanks for contributing, everyone.

[mb]

I also have liked Faile and her relationship with Perrin.

She has treated Perrin badly in her first several books, but she seems to have improved since then.

[Guest cindy.]

the first years of marriage, i've heard, are the most difficult.

[MierinWru]

I've always liked Faile to be honest. I was very surprised when I started reading about WoT on the Internet and found out that most people don't like her.

 

The whole competing with Berelain thing went on for way too long, though. But then again: Did any theme in WoT not go on for way too long already?