The north and east must be as one...

[BLKNIGHT18]

If Aviendha's vision is what will occur, it could still be that the WT and BT are unified for the Last Battle, and following that they go back to being separate. The question Rand asked the Aelfinn was

* "How can I win the Last Battle and survive?"

* "The north and the east must be as one. The west and the south must be as one. The two must be as one. If you would live, you must die."

 

It could still be that unification of both sides of channellers is the an agreement made just until after the Last Battle.

[Pinzarn]

Personally, I like this idea.

 

The geographical interpetation was too easy. It appeared to be a slam dunk once Mat became the Prince of Ravens. Since Tuon did not cooperate, it has shed more light on what the Aelfinn answer could be. I too am thinking that teh geographical interpetation is a red herring.

[A Rant Lord]

We had a part of this Aelfinn answer explained already IMO. "The north and the east must be as one. The west and the south must be as one. The two must be as one.`

Why see that as 1 big thing? In my opinion, "The two must be as one" Already was finished in TGS when Rand and LTT came to agree that they were actually ONE.

As for the North and east and South and west, maybe they are both geographicall, maybe not, maybe that is something else as well.

[BLKNIGHT18]

We had a part of this Aelfinn answer explained already IMO. "The north and the east must be as one. The west and the south must be as one. The two must be as one.`

Why see that as 1 big thing? In my opinion, "The two must be as one" Already was finished in TGS when Rand and LTT came to agree that they were actually ONE.

As for the North and east and South and west, maybe they are both geographicall, maybe not, maybe that is something else as well.

 

From the phrase it looks like the first two sentences are clearly connected to the third, so unless you have an explanation for how they connect to Rand vs. LTT I don't think this development, while obviously important, is what this Aelfinn answer is referring to.

[plague fiend]

I don't know if everybody already figured this out, but I just realized it today rereading KoD.

 

"The north and the east must be as one. The west and the south must be as one. The two must be as one." That's referring to the symbol of the aes sedai. The north and the east is the male side, what's known as the dragon's fang, and the west and the south is symbol of the female side, the flame of Tar Valon. So the Black Tower has to be there, a unification of male channellers,the White Tower has to be whole, and the two towers must be joined as one.

 

Perhaps this has to do with the Aes Sedai and Asha man bonding each other?

[randsc]

North and East - the Blight and Shara.

 

West and South - Seanchan and Randland.

 

The Two must be as One - Rand and Moridin? White Tower and Black?

[Ananta]

I know this is sort of off-topic, but I've always seen Elaida's building product ending up as new 'Black Tower'. So BT and WT will unite at some point.

 

 

 

And on topic, I think that the prophecy refers to geographical locations, not what you suggest.

[FarShainMael]

North and East - the Blight and Shara.

 

West and South - Seanchan and Randland.

 

The Two must be as One - Rand and Moridin? White Tower and Black?

 

Caemlyn and Cairhien would be consistent with a geographical interpretation. But then, it doesn't have to be geographical, of course..

[randsc]

North and East - the Blight and Shara.

 

West and South - Seanchan and Randland.

 

The Two must be as One - Rand and Moridin? White Tower and Black?

 

Caemlyn and Cairhien would be consistent with a geographical interpretation. But then, it doesn't have to be geographical, of course..

 

And would have the advantage of making Elayne's play for Cairhein seem less like a gratuitous power grab. I like it.

 

North and East - the Blight and Shara

West and South - Seanchan and Randland

The Two - Andor and Cairhein

 

I'm going to go with that, for now.

[FarShainMael]

It would also explain why Rand was so keen on giving Cairhien to Elayne.

[yoniy0]

It would also explain why Rand was so keen on giving Cairhien to Elayne.

I think not. He's made his will known in this matter since before KoD, and as of then he still thought that answer meant he should reach an alliance with the Seanchan.

[FarShainMael]

It would also explain why Rand was so keen on giving Cairhien to Elayne.

I think not. He's made his will known in this matter since before KoD, and as of then he still thought that answer meant he should reach an alliance with the Seanchan.

 

Isn't that covered by 'West and South' as randsc says?

[yoniy0]

Isn't that covered by 'West and South' as randsc says?

Oh, I don't contest that, though that interpretation's not my cup of tea. But "The two must be as one" could not have been the reason Rand wished Elayne to ascend to the Sun Throne, since we know he didn't interpret it as such, at least not back then.

[mb]

North and East I have counted as Borderlands and Waste respectively.

West and South I have counted as Toman Head "bending" around to Altara; perhaps Arad Doman & Illian being added sometime before the end.

Two becoming one, I have counted as these and the enclosed countries.

[BLKNIGHT18]

All of the arguments over what countries represent the directions makes it seem much more simple if it's the symbol of aes sedai. It would also go with the fact that the physical representation of the seals for the Dark One's prison are that same symbol.

[FarShainMael]

Isn't that covered by 'West and South' as randsc says?

Oh, I don't contest that, though that interpretation's not my cup of tea. But "The two must be as one" could not have been the reason Rand wished Elayne to ascend to the Sun Throne, since we know he didn't interpret it as such, at least not back then.

 

Could you establish that for me, please?

[yoniy0]

Could you establish that for me, please?

Sure, though I doubt I can say anything you don't already know. First we have this, indicating that Rand was set in his intention that Elayne should ascend to the Sun Throne as early as in LoC:

"Ten?" Dobraine said. "I had only one visit. I thought she was disappointed when I made it clear I had sworn fealty to the Lord Dragon. But whether ten or one, Colavaere is the key. She knows as well as any that the Lord Dragon means the Sun Throne for Elayne Trakand."

And then five books later Rand tells us what he (still) believes the Aelfinn's answer to mean:

Rand dropped back into his chair, stretching his legs in front of him and crossing his ankles. "It doesn't matter how unpopular it is. I went through that doorframe ter'angreal in Tear, Cadsuane. You know about that?" Golden ornaments bobbled as she nodded impatiently. "One of my questions for the Aelfinn was 'How can I win the Last Battle?'"

"A dangerous question to pose." she said quietly, "touching on the Shadow as it does. Supposedly, the results can be quite unpleasant. What was the answer?"

"'The north and the east must be as one. The west and the south must be as one. The two must be as one.'" He blew a smoke ring, put another in the middle of it as it expanded. That was not the whole of it. He had asked how to win and survive. The last part of his answet had been 'To live, you must die.' Not something he was going to bring up in front of Min anytime soon. In front of anyone except Alivia, for that matter. Now he just had to figure out how to live by dying. "At first, I thought it meant I had to conquer everywhere, but that wasn't what they said. What if it means the Seanchan hold the west and south, as you could say they already do, and there's an alliance to fight the Last Battle, the Seanchan with everybody else?"

Naturally, when he mentions an alliance, he can't be thinking that "The north and the east must be as one" is the part of the answer which suggests it, so it must be that his interpretation (at least at the time, which is again long after he's made his mind to give the Sun throne to Elayne) of the line "the two must be as one" is that the Seanchan must enter an alliance with the rest of Randland.

[FarShainMael]

Thanks, I see what you're getting at. I just read that differently, that's all, that he'd changed his mind aboout the interpretation over those 5 books.

[Sharaman]

Could be a bit of both actually ? He was puzzling about the Finn statement, while getting more and more interested in Elayne and also clear that he wanted her to have Carhein. Then he decided it would work reasonably well if she was there as ruler since he knows she's pretty good at the whole diplomacy thing.

[FarShainMael]

Could be a bit of both actually ? He was puzzling about the Finn statement, while getting more and more interested in Elayne and also clear that he wanted her to have Carhein. Then he decided it would work reasonably well if she was there as ruler since he knows she's pretty good at the whole diplomacy thing.

 

Hedging his bets? Makes sense.

[Val Mickey]

The problem with the geo-political solution is that Arad Doman, inarguably west, is now with the north and the east. And with the south, as Tear and Illian are.

 

However you cut Randland, the alliances are never symmetrical.

 

The yin-yang thing sounds good, though I fail to understand why the Finns would require the Dragon Fang (pre-BT, wasn't it?) to be en-joined. It was never two. And the WT and the damane and the Windfinders and the Wise Ones and the Sharawomen becoming one is a tall list.

 

But I vaguely remember Ailron being the Guardian of the South or some such, and (was it) Tenobia or Ethenielle a Guardian of the north...