Toughest of the Tough

[Sleeper]

Perrin's judgement is totally irrelevent anyways.

 

Personally I think he can easily take on either of them. He would beat Mat with no problem.

Wait, Perrin could beat Mat no problem?

 

I gotta disagree with you. Perrin's good at what he does, but Mat is better.

[Ashandarei]

Perrin's judgement is totally irrelevent anyways.

 

Personally I think he can easily take on either of them. He would beat Mat with no problem.

 

Perrin's judgement is in no way "irrelevant." He's a warrior and has already taken a Myrdraal out 1 on 1 in TDR:5 by that point. So when he calls Lan and Rhuarc deadly... it means they're deadly.

 

As for Perrin v. Mat, that's less certain. I know for sure he couldn't beat Mat "no problem." It comes down to whether the ashandarei can take an axe/hammer blow directly on the shaft and not break. We know it can burn or at least smolder as of ToM(during Mat's fight with the Gholam) so the wood isn't invulnerable even if the blade and shaft are Aes Sedai work. If it can take the hit and not break, I'd say Mat would take Perrin straight up, he's just too fast with the ashandarei for Perrin to keep up with the hammer, we saw how much trouble Perrin had with Aram and all Aram had was a sword, which has only one fighting end.

 

The ashandarei has two deadly ends(don't need a blade to kill a man, as Mat shows us with the quarterstaff when escaping Tar Valon with Thom). So yeah, if the ashandarei can take the hit and flex instead of breaking, Perrin's done for. If Mat has to avoid direct hits because the ashandarei will break, Perrin has more of a chance. Either way, Perrin's situation is far from "no problem."

 

I don't think it needs even be explained why Perrin taking on Lan or Rhuarc would be a bad idea for Perrin, especially Lan. (just read previous posts in the thread)

[Entreri]

Lan is the best blademaster, according to both RJ and BS. Lan is better than Rand according to RJ, Lan is better than Galad and Gawyn according to BS. The younger Lan that fought Ryne and Sleet was probably at Galad's level now. Fighthers generally peak at 30. Warders in general stay on top longer.

 

Gaul is the leader of the Stone Dogs and probably as good as Rhuarc. Gaul defeated about 8 armed Whitecloaks bare handed. Aiel are the best fighters in the world, through 3000 years evolution only the strongest Aiel has survived the Waste. Moraine said there was no difference between Lan and Rhuarc. However, after her death, Lan is in a league of his own.

 

Based on fighting abilities (not who has won, would win...one has to consider luck, ta'avern, weapon/armor one has):

 

Lan > Rhuarc and Gaul > Rand > Valda > Galad > Gawyn.

 

Ryne was likely as good as Valda. Riatin was probably Galad level.

 

Mat and Perrin? Mat and Perrin ability wise they would be right there with Valad/Ryne. Quarterstaff weapon Mat's would give him an edge in WoT, so he would be equal to Rand, and with his insane luck he would there with Rhuarc and Gaul. Perrin could be at Rand's level. All the 3 ta'averen are incredible fighters.

[Entreri]

In my mind, it's between Lan and Matt. Lan's personality oozes death and his practice sessions, not to mention his fights, back this observation. Matt abilities, including fights, usually leave my mouth hanging open. Catching knives, disarming people without a thought, and who could forget his education of Galad and Gawyn, at the same time. If I remember correctly, Rand got pwned by the Noble man who was hanging with Padan Fain(CoS or PoD).

 

He only got nailed by Toram Riatin because Rand turned his attention to the bubble of evil that appeared and Toram took advantage. Up till that point they were pretty evenly matched.

 

Lan later killed Toram 1v1 in WH but it wasn't completely one sided either, Lan definitely took some hits as well.

 

Rand was toying with Riatin, which is dangerous. Rand wore gloves and was taking the fighting as a game. If anyone tried doing task X wearing gloves, a considerable disadvantage.

Only when Rand got distracted did he get hit.

 

Galad while a little less than Valda, is still young, and fighters generally peak around 30. With his natural abilities, I have no doubt Galad will be at least a good as Valda and if not better given time.

[Entreri]

As for Rand vs. Gholam. Why would Rand die? He can use the True Power to destroy the gholam or an army of gholam's. And his "Light" power may affect it as well. Not to mention it is very likely that LTT has dealt with the gholam's before. Rand would fare far better than Mat because of this. The gholam would be stupid to face the DR.

[yoshinobu]

People who are bringing up Perrin. He is a nice guy and all, and in the story he is a great fighter. But hammers are not all that useful in dueling. They are slow, only have one point with which to strick, and have little range. That said they are useful in battle, they can break through armor and you can use the spiked end to bring down a horsemen. Sorry for any misspelling and hope this helps.

[Mats Spare Hat]

Pff, the answer of course is Solid Snake.

[Elan Tedronai]

solid snake is not even the best snake in the trilogy. That honor goes to liquid. It took a virus to kill the bloke.

 

Anyways the gholam destroys everything in wheel of time universe. Hand to hand or no hand to hand. One poster was saying how bout ogiers? LOL give me a break.

 

They should have a mma tournament in randland.

 

Rand vs lan.

 

Gawyn vs galad

 

rhuarc vs mat

 

Gholam vs anybody. Though someone has to convince it that ripping throats is not part of the rules

[capuga]

One poster was saying how bout ogiers? LOL give me a break.

 

Because you think they couldn't win or because it wouldn't be fair to the humans? Loial was as strong as a Trolloc when he fought one in Caemlyn and he's a scholar. The Ogier Gardeners should be a force to be reckoned with. I would say that their strength advantage would give them an edge against any of the human fighters, especially in hand to hand.

[Elan Tedronai]

One poster was saying how bout ogiers? LOL give me a break.

 

Because you think they couldn't win or because it wouldn't be fair to the humans? Loial was as strong as a Trolloc when he fought one in Caemlyn and he's a scholar. The Ogier Gardeners should be a force to be reckoned with. I would say that their strength advantage would give them an edge against any of the human fighters, especially in hand to hand.

 

i was referring to an ogier vs a gholam match up. Ofcourse it were against human fighters then yeah an ogier is a force to be reckoned with.

[Mooka]

Bottom line Mat's the toughest of the tough.

There's something about being Ta'veren with his luck that doesn't say tough.

 

 

When I think tough, I'm thinking Aiel. They live in the most extreme conditions and they seem to have little or any domestic members of their society using slaves instead. (ironically Mat also took down Couladin)

[plague fiend]

solid snake is not even the best snake in the trilogy. That honor goes to liquid. It took a virus to kill the bloke.

 

Anyways the gholam destroys everything in wheel of time universe. Hand to hand or no hand to hand. One poster was saying how bout ogiers? LOL give me a break.

 

They should have a mma tournament in randland.

 

Rand vs lan.

 

Gawyn vs galad

 

rhuarc vs mat

 

Gholam vs anybody. Though someone has to convince it that ripping throats is not part of the rules

The gholam is a bad @ss, but with a silver inlaid weapon, a few of the top could beat it. I recall Lord Luc saying he had killed a Gholam in the White Tower, and we all saw what Perrin did to him. My money is on Matt.

[capuga]

solid snake is not even the best snake in the trilogy. That honor goes to liquid. It took a virus to kill the bloke.

 

Anyways the gholam destroys everything in wheel of time universe. Hand to hand or no hand to hand. One poster was saying how bout ogiers? LOL give me a break.

 

They should have a mma tournament in randland.

 

Rand vs lan.

 

Gawyn vs galad

 

rhuarc vs mat

 

Gholam vs anybody. Though someone has to convince it that ripping throats is not part of the rules

The gholam is a bad @ss, but with a silver inlaid weapon, a few of the top could beat it. I recall Lord Luc saying he had killed a Gholam in the White Tower, and we all saw what Perrin did to him. My money is on Matt.

 

? Are you sure you're not think of a Gray Man?

[Finnssss22]

solid snake is not even the best snake in the trilogy. That honor goes to liquid. It took a virus to kill the bloke.

 

Anyways the gholam destroys everything in wheel of time universe. Hand to hand or no hand to hand. One poster was saying how bout ogiers? LOL give me a break.

 

They should have a mma tournament in randland.

 

Rand vs lan.

 

Gawyn vs galad

 

rhuarc vs mat

 

Gholam vs anybody. Though someone has to convince it that ripping throats is not part of the rules

The gholam is a bad @ss, but with a silver inlaid weapon, a few of the top could beat it. I recall Lord Luc saying he had killed a Gholam in the White Tower, and we all saw what Perrin did to him. My money is on Matt.

 

? Are you sure you're not think of a Gray Man?

 

That's all I could think of as well and I always wondered who killed the other one and put her in Sheriam's bed.

Maybe it was revealed but I can't remember off hand.

[plague fiend]

solid snake is not even the best snake in the trilogy. That honor goes to liquid. It took a virus to kill the bloke.

 

Anyways the gholam destroys everything in wheel of time universe. Hand to hand or no hand to hand. One poster was saying how bout ogiers? LOL give me a break.

 

They should have a mma tournament in randland.

 

Rand vs lan.

 

Gawyn vs galad

 

rhuarc vs mat

 

Gholam vs anybody. Though someone has to convince it that ripping throats is not part of the rules

The gholam is a bad @ss, but with a silver inlaid weapon, a few of the top could beat it. I recall Lord Luc saying he had killed a Gholam in the White Tower, and we all saw what Perrin did to him. My money is on Matt.

 

? Are you sure you're not think of a Gray Man?

 

That's all I could think of as well and I always wondered who killed the other one and put her in Sheriam's bed.

Maybe it was revealed but I can't remember off hand.

Yeah, a Grey Man. WH pg448

[ajfurst]

In my mind, it's between Lan and Matt. Lan's personality oozes death and his practice sessions, not to mention his fights, back this observation. Matt abilities, including fights, usually leave my mouth hanging open. Catching knives, disarming people without a thought, and who could forget his education of Galad and Gawyn, at the same time. If I remember correctly, Rand got pwned by the Noble man who was hanging with Padan Fain(CoS or PoD).

 

He only got nailed by Toram Riatin because Rand turned his attention to the bubble of evil that appeared and Toram took advantage. Up till that point they were pretty evenly matched.

 

Lan later killed Toram 1v1 in WH but it wasn't completely one sided either, Lan definitely took some hits as well.

 

Rand was toying with Riatin, which is dangerous. Rand wore gloves and was taking the fighting as a game. If anyone tried doing task X wearing gloves, a considerable disadvantage.

Only when Rand got distracted did he get hit.

Rand was on the back foot (but not yet hit) when distracted by the bubble of evil. However he also had his coat on IIRC. So he's got a less then ideal grip AND restricted movement in comparison to Riatin. If he hadn't needed to hide he was The Dragon Reborn, I think he would have won.

[dholm]

Mat, Rand when he had his left hand, Lan, Perrin, Rhuarc, Gawyn and Galad could all kill one another in a battle one-on-one.

 

It is not always the more skillful who wins, and all of them are more than deadly enough.

 

The loss of a hand is a severe disability, however, so Rand is not even in the top tier of fighters anymore.

[Kidicaris]

As for Rand vs. Gholam. Why would Rand die? He can use the True Power to destroy the gholam or an army of gholam's. And his "Light" power may affect it as well. Not to mention it is very likely that LTT has dealt with the gholam's before. Rand would fare far better than Mat because of this. The gholam would be stupid to face the DR.

 

I was thinking the same thing. If LTT had dealt with Gholam in the AoL than he would have plenty of ways to attack one indirectly with the Power, more even than Teslyn throwing furniture at the one attacking Mat with Air. Who can know what weaves LTT would use that would shred a Gholam, or capture one, or hurt one. That unending explosive barrage of ice shards he used to kill Drakhar at Malden would be pretty effective if faced forward instead of upward. Hell, Rand could create the weaves directly under it. What if he turned the ground into lava and the Gholam sank in Terminator style. This makes me wonder if the Gholam could also be frozen with weaves that indirectly effected the temperature around it? Imagine a huge Power wrought perfectly airtight and incredibly fortified sphere of stone growing around the Gholam, Rand could roll that demented pokeball out of his way and still have time to talk jewelry with Cadsuane.

[killuliu]

I was thinking the same thing. If LTT had dealt with Gholam in the AoL than he would have plenty of ways to attack one indirectly with the Power, more even than Teslyn throwing furniture at the one attacking Mat with Air. Who can know what weaves LTT would use that would shred a Gholam, or capture one, or hurt one. That unending explosive barrage of ice shards he used to kill Drakhar at Malden would be pretty effective if faced forward instead of upward. Hell, Rand could create the weaves directly under it. What if he turned the ground into lava and the Gholam sank in Terminator style. This makes me wonder if the Gholam could also be frozen with weaves that indirectly effected the temperature around it? Imagine a huge Power wrought perfectly airtight and incredibly fortified sphere of stone growing around the Gholam, Rand could roll that demented pokeball out of his way and still have time to talk jewelry with Cadsuane.

 

But we saw that Gholam's ability to absorb waves doesn't effect gateways, so wouldn't a single Death Gate do pretty well agains Gholam? I think it wuoldn't recover well if half of it is sent to some random location.. But isn't this a bit offtopic, as it was stated that no channeling :)

 

But I think Mat would beat nearly anybody, but somehow it doesn't seem that "tough", more like darn skilled fighter with loads of luck. So my vote for most "tough" (and maybe badass) goes for Lan. (good second is Perrin and Rhuarc, third Rand before losing his hand and Galad)

[TheAngryDruid]

Lan is the best blademaster, according to both RJ and BS. Lan is better than Rand according to RJ, Lan is better than Galad and Gawyn according to BS. The younger Lan that fought Ryne and Sleet was probably at Galad's level now. Fighthers generally peak at 30. Warders in general stay on top longer.

 

Gaul is the leader of the Stone Dogs and probably as good as Rhuarc. Gaul defeated about 8 armed Whitecloaks bare handed. Aiel are the best fighters in the world, through 3000 years evolution only the strongest Aiel has survived the Waste. Moraine said there was no difference between Lan and Rhuarc. However, after her death, Lan is in a league of his own.

 

Based on fighting abilities (not who has won, would win...one has to consider luck, ta'avern, weapon/armor one has):

 

Lan > Rhuarc and Gaul > Rand > Valda > Galad > Gawyn.

 

Ryne was likely as good as Valda. Riatin was probably Galad level.

 

Mat and Perrin? Mat and Perrin ability wise they would be right there with Valad/Ryne. Quarterstaff weapon Mat's would give him an edge in WoT, so he would be equal to Rand, and with his insane luck he would there with Rhuarc and Gaul. Perrin could be at Rand's level. All the 3 ta'averen are incredible fighters.

 

I like some of your reasoning, but no way Valda > Galad. We saw that movie, 1 v. 1. Valda is dead. Galad isn't. End of story.

 

As many have said, with the sword: Lan, Rand (both hands), Galad, Gawyn. And I read the quote from BS as meaning more than Gawyn was lucky, but that we was unknowingly using a trait that runs strong in his family (Elayne, Rand) to help him get "lucky."

 

Throwing different weapons in makes it more complicated, but I'd definitely rate Matt the best or the rest, he killed Couladin one v. one. I'd bet he was as good as Rhuarc or Gaul, though I'd think either would give Mat a run. Don't think Perrin is on the same level, though who knows what that hammer can do?

 

As for bare hands, easy. My money is on Loial.

[dholm]

Mat has far too many memories of fighting not to be one of the best alive. I'd certainly put him as better than Rhuarc. Not Lan, but definitely Rhuarc -- and I only give Lan that edge because of the Warder bond. If Mat were to gain that... he would be the best fighter alive, period. His reflexes are already almost superhuman.

 

Thing is, Mat doesn't have many scenes of fighting one-on-one. Most of his memories are of battles, so it makes sense that his hand-to-hand fighting skills aren't quite up there, and I believe that the last one-on-one fight we saw Mat participate in was against Tuon in Winter's Heart (and Noal interrupted that fight).

 

Perrin is the least skilled of the three ta'veren, but he has his senses to make up for it, as well as a berserker rage which probably is enough to frighten off most people.

[Sleeper]

 

Thing is, Mat doesn't have many scenes of fighting one-on-one. Most of his memories are of battles, so it makes sense that his hand-to-hand fighting skills aren't quite up there, and I believe that the last one-on-one fight we saw Mat participate in was against Tuon in Winter's Heart (and Noal interrupted that fight).

 

Kinda wish Be'lal hadn't been balefired, so we could've seen a Mat v. Be'lal 1v1 in AMoL. Would've been epic.

[Sharaman]

Mat pasted both Galad & Gawyn together, while he was almost fainting from hunger and weakness.

He killed Couladin who was supposedly awesomely good even by Aiel standards.

He has issues about hitting women.

He can fend off the gholam.

On the evidence he's very good indeed.

[Entreri]

Lan is the best blademaster, according to both RJ and BS. Lan is better than Rand according to RJ, Lan is better than Galad and Gawyn according to BS. The younger Lan that fought Ryne and Sleet was probably at Galad's level now. Fighthers generally peak at 30. Warders in general stay on top longer.

 

Gaul is the leader of the Stone Dogs and probably as good as Rhuarc. Gaul defeated about 8 armed Whitecloaks bare handed. Aiel are the best fighters in the world, through 3000 years evolution only the strongest Aiel has survived the Waste. Moraine said there was no difference between Lan and Rhuarc. However, after her death, Lan is in a league of his own.

 

Based on fighting abilities (not who has won, would win...one has to consider luck, ta'avern, weapon/armor one has):

 

Lan > Rhuarc and Gaul > Rand > Valda > Galad > Gawyn.

 

Ryne was likely as good as Valda. Riatin was probably Galad level.

 

Mat and Perrin? Mat and Perrin ability wise they would be right there with Valad/Ryne. Quarterstaff weapon Mat's would give him an edge in WoT, so he would be equal to Rand, and with his insane luck he would there with Rhuarc and Gaul. Perrin could be at Rand's level. All the 3 ta'averen are incredible fighters.

 

I like some of your reasoning, but no way Valda > Galad. We saw that movie, 1 v. 1. Valda is dead. Galad isn't. End of story.

 

As many have said, with the sword: Lan, Rand (both hands), Galad, Gawyn. And I read the quote from BS as meaning more than Gawyn was lucky, but that we was unknowingly using a trait that runs strong in his family (Elayne, Rand) to help him get "lucky."

 

Throwing different weapons in makes it more complicated, but I'd definitely rate Matt the best or the rest, he killed Couladin one v. one. I'd bet he was as good as Rhuarc or Gaul, though I'd think either would give Mat a run. Don't think Perrin is on the same level, though who knows what that hammer can do?

 

As for bare hands, easy. My money is on Loial.

 

Sure, Galad won. However, going by the fight scene, we are clearly see Valda was a bit better and even his mother appeared surprised that Valda was killed. Valda appeared to be right near THE TOP of the blademaster hierarchy (top 3 in the world).

 

However, I have no doubt that Galad will become better than Valda, if not already. Fighters peak around 30. Ryne was probably as good as Valda, and at the time he fought the young Lan, Ryne was a hair better. Lan would completely destroy Ryne now.

 

When abilities are that close, either fighter can win.

 

Rand is that good because of who is he is...Lights Champion = it's greatest warrior.

 

 

Toughest non challener warrior amongst the Light is unquestionably Lan.

 

Toughest challener warrior is of course Rand, the rest are weaklings beside him, including the likes of Nyaneve, Cadsuane and Egwene.

 

 

Amongst the Dark, non-'challenger' is Fain.

 

Given that he can destroy armies of Trollocs, Fades and Worms etc...and turn most into zombies, it is likely he can kill the Gholam (it is still Darkspawn and the gateway killed it). Fain's touch (those tendrils) should kill it.

 

Moridin of course amongst the OP users of the Dark. It is not LTT almost/Demandred, although he is second.