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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Toughest of the Tough


Hotncold
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I had thought after reading TGS and TOM that Gawyn was the toughest of the tough having taken down three bloodknives at the same time. However, upon a re-read of the series, I see in TDR that Mat opened up a very large can of whoop ass on both Gawyn and Galad at the same time. And he did that right after he got up from his deathbed and could hardly be considered at his best. Bottom line Mat's the toughest of the tough.

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In my opinion:

 

Lan

Mat

Gawyn

Everyone else

 

Galad is still ahead of Gawyn according to BS.

Really? I'm quite surprised, I thought someone had said that Gawyn was the best now.

 

I stand corrected.

 

Yeah, there was a big hoopla about it and BS made it clear from RJ's notes that it was Lan>Rand before losing a hand>Galad>Gawyn as far as the Blademasters go.

 

Basically, we shouldn't confuse more screen time involving Gawyn's prowess as him being better than Galad now.

Edited by Finnssss
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Rand would probably own Lan if he got his hand back, now that he has LTT's Blademastery in his head to complement his own.

 

 

Anyhow, I think Mat could possibly beat Lan. Wasn't it said that greatest swordman of a time got buttraped by farmer with a stick. And these days Mat is a tad bit more than a farmer with a stick.

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Ah... So as it boils down...

 

 

Truthfully, if they were to fight one on one... I think we'd see the winners would come like this.

 

 

In a one on one against any of them, Mat would win. We've already seen how a quarterstaff goes up against a sword.

 

Lan vs. Gawyn: This is a hard one. I think Gawyn would win, but just barely. Iirc, Gawyn beat Sleete more than Lan did.

 

Lan vs. Galad: Again, if Galad is better than Gawyn, especially with his possible link to Saidin, Galad would win. Poor Lan.

 

Gawyn vs. Galad: Honestly, I think Gawyn would win. Would be one epic fight though.

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Lan would down Gawyn and Galad with swipes of his fingers.

 

 

Yeah if there's one thing that was always confirmed by both RJ and BS is that Lan is the top dog, no question asked.

Right now I would go Lan over Mat but it would be close.

However, if Tuon does start to channel and Bonds Mat, I would have to put my money on Mat from that point on.

 

When Sleet practiced with Lan, that was almost 20 years ago when Lan was only in his mid 20's

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Where does Rhuarc fit? He always gets skipped over in these discussions. IMO he is probably the best or just a little behind Lan. Mat may have the skill with the staff but the real reason he beat the male Elayne's in Tar Valon was because he bet on the match and had to win or go broke.

 

Rhuarc > Lan > Galad > Gawyn > Mat > rest.

 

edit for epic spelling failures

Edited by trench
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Rhuarc is definitely up there with Lan, I'd give Lan the edge though due to his warder bond. Can't remember who thought it Rand or Mat but it was along the lines of he couldn't tell which of them was the most dangerous, but he suspected a mouse would starve on the difference.

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In a one on one against any of them, Mat would win. We've already seen how a quarterstaff goes up against a sword.

 

Well, that is just in RJ's head. He gives much credit to the quarterstaff, but in fact, if you google and find pages with Sword vs Staff 1v1, the sword is superior. Not in mass combat tho (thats probably why the Death Watch Guard uses shield and spear).

 

Does anyone remember how Gawyn did against Sleete, when they sparred? I can't say I remember Gawyn being by far the best one?

Sleete is/was? the second best blademaster, and he once bested 2/7 vs Lan.

I must agree with the ones saying that Lan is the best 1v1 fighter.

However, if we agree with RJ saying that the quarterstaff is better then the sword, I believe Mat would have a good change against the lot of them.

 

Edit; Rhuarc is a beyond doubt a dangerous man, but he would have a disadvantage vs Lan because of his choice of weapons i think. I am not an expert on weapons, but from what I have understood, a shield and spear in a 1v1 fight, is not the best solution.

Edited by Zlith
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In a one on one against any of them, Mat would win. We've already seen how a quarterstaff goes up against a sword.

 

Well, that is just in RJ's head. He gives much credit to the quarterstaff, but in fact, if you google and find pages with Sword vs Staff 1v1, the sword is superior. Not in mass combat tho (thats probably why the Death Watch Guard uses shield and spear).

 

Does anyone remember how Gawyn did against Sleete, when they sparred? I can't say I remember Gawyn being by far the best one?

Sleete is/was? the second best blademaster, and he once bested 2/7 vs Lan.

I must agree with the ones saying that Lan is the best 1v1 fighter.

However, if we agree with RJ saying that the quarterstaff is better then the sword, I believe Mat would have a good change against the lot of them.

 

Edit; Rhuarc is a beyond doubt a dangerous man, but he would have a disadvantage vs Lan because of his choice of weapons i think. I am not an expert on weapons, but from what I have understood, a shield and spear in a 1v1 fight, is not the best solution.

 

This has been heavily debated in other threads. At one point a martial arts master who participates in competitions of swords (wooden practice swords I assume) and staffs (staves?) said that the staff is clearly superior to the sword when you have enough room to work it. He seemed to be very knowledgable so I'll take his word for it. Especially when it makes sense because the staff has more reach and versatility (all points on the staff can be used to strike from any position).

 

In terms of blademasters - Lan>Rand>Galad>Gawyn. Per RJ and Brandon. Period.

 

In a one on one fight I'll take Lan over anyone because he is a badass and just refuses to lose. However, I would put Mat at a very close second (without factoring in his luck) because of his choice of weapon. Rhuarc is certainly near the top also. I would put him and Rand (pre losing a hand) at a tie for 3rd most dangerous in a one on one fight.

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As far as Rhuarc goes it should be noted from Aviendha, in tPoD chapt 1.

 

Aviendha had grown up around dangerous men, but never one to match Aan'allein. Had death been a man, she would of been him.

 

Considering that Rhuarc is/was Aviendha's clan chief and no stranger to fighting and battle herself, her opinion would prolly be the best you could get on the two of them.

Edited by Finnssss
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Where does Perrin rank, especially with spoiler that can't be mentioned on this board?

 

Full powered Rand was the most dangerous man alive because of his channeling, swordsmanship and epic Ta'veren factor. The fire sword would kick ass even with his missing hand. I'd say Mat and Perrin next because of Ta'veren factors.

 

Pure skill I'd go with Lan>Rand with Hand> Mat = Perrin> Galad> Valda> Gawayn. I give Lan general he's death walking and warders bond and Rand the edge with Warder bond and OG Blademaster status. I think Mat's weapon and patch work combat experience and Perrins build, weapon, berserker style and wolfbrother power over the rest. I think Galad barely beat Valda and he's better than Gawayn. I don't really know how to place the Aiel because they're supposed to be the most elite killers in the realm with unmatched endurance, physique and combat prowess but lose to main characters and dominate everyone else.

 

I suspect Shaidar Haran would be quiet deadly with the blade as well considering most fades are pretty tough and he's a superfade. The Gholam seemed pretty vicious as well but I don't know if we're counting shadowing

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Mat is probably the most lethal as he is undoubtedly a blademaster due to his memories and is very proficient with a ashanderei/quarterstaff. Seems like cheating to me however. Haha.

 

Sanderson has said that Gawyn is luckier than he knows so I wouldn't necessarily put him at the top.

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The thing is, with a sword, you have to follow through with the blade and point. You swing the sword, bringing up the handle as an offensive or defensive weapon is just not as good as the other end of the quarterstaff. The quarterstaff has two business ends, you can block a thrust or a swipe from a sword with one end and then bring up the other end to the chin, guts, knee, crotch, etc. Sword has one business end, quarterstaff has two provided you have enough room to spin the quarter staff. In a tight hallway perhaps a sword is the weapon of choice, but if you're out in the open, where you can dodge and dance and spin, and spin the quarterstaff, I think the quarterstaff wins hands down. Not to mention the fact that Mat's Asharandei is like a combo spear/sword/quarterstaff where he has the best properties of both.

 

I see it as Mat>Galad and Gawyn at the same time (2 vs 1)Lan>Rand with two hands>Galad=Gawyn=Rhuarac>bloodknives> everyone else.

 

How many in Randland could go toe to toe with the Gholum and come out ahead? I think only Mat. Lan vs Gholum = one dead Lan. Galad and Gawyn vs Gholum = two dead male Elayne's. Rand with two hands vs Gholum = one dead Dragon Reborn.

 

I see the all time as:

Mat

Gholum

Lan

Rand with two hands

Gawyn tied with Galad tied with Rhuarac

 

But I would entertain other arguments other than the top two, that being Mat as on top, Gholum 2nd. I think that Lan is either still on the plateau of his prime or past his prime now and was peaked either now or a few years ago, while Gawyn and Galad are still too young to be at their prime. Mat is still improving also and getting better with age. Rhuarac is at his prime or going downhill.

 

10 years from now in Randland, Mat will still be on top, then Lan might fall below Gawyn and Galad as he ages and they get older.

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All this talk of weapons and blademasters...

 

What I want to know is who would win if it came down just bare hands.

 

I'll stand open to correction but in Randland people are very fond of their weapons and I think only really the Aiel have anything like a formalised approach to hand to hand fighting. Not quite to the level of our own martial arts but certainly far more than the rest of Randland whose default setting for weaponless fighting is 'brawl'.

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All this talk of weapons and blademasters...

 

What I want to know is who would win if it came down just bare hands.

 

I'll stand open to correction but in Randland people are very fond of their weapons and I think only really the Aiel have anything like a formalised approach to hand to hand fighting. Not quite to the level of our own martial arts but certainly far more than the rest of Randland whose default setting for weaponless fighting is 'brawl'.

Rhuarc would win hand-to-hand for sure.

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