Why is Ishamael not old and withered in this series?

[AdamPollard]

"The Forsaken," Mat said hoarsely, "are bound in Shayol Ghul-"

"Were bound." Aginor smiled; his ytellowed teeth had the look of fangs. "Some of us are bound no longer. The seals weaken, Aes Sedai. Like Ishamael, we walk the world again, and soon the rest of us will come. I was too close to this world in my captivity, I and Balthamel, too close to the grinding of the Wheel, but soon the Great Lord of the Dark will be free, and give is new flesh, and the world will be ours once more.

 

So this passage seems to suggest that Ishamael either hasnt been in captivity at all during the past 2000 years or that he was bound as close to the world and the grinding of the wheel as Aginor and Balthamel were. Why does he not show the same wear and tear of the years as those two?

[Mulk]

Ishamael's eyes and mouth are consumed in flame. I'm not sure how much wear and tear he could show in that state. Further, I believe he was partially bound, and during the years he was fully bound I think he was probably further away from the grinding of the wheel as it were. My take is that the Dark One was able periodically to pop him loose to wreak havoc for a bit, since he was and is the Dark One's best servant.

[randsc]

"The Forsaken," Mat said hoarsely, "are bound in Shayol Ghul-"

"Were bound." Aginor smiled; his ytellowed teeth had the look of fangs. "Some of us are bound no longer. The seals weaken, Aes Sedai. Like Ishamael, we walk the world again, and soon the rest of us will come. I was too close to this world in my captivity, I and Balthamel, too close to the grinding of the Wheel, but soon the Great Lord of the Dark will be free, and give is new flesh, and the world will be ours once more.

 

So this passage seems to suggest that Ishamael either hasnt been in captivity at all during the past 2000 years or that he was bound as close to the world and the grinding of the wheel as Aginor and Balthamel were. Why does he not show the same wear and tear of the years as those two?

 

 

No good reason. By all of the logic we have been give of how his binding worked, he should be old and withered.

 

That he isn't is just...one of those things.

[The Fisher King]

"The Forsaken," Mat said hoarsely, "are bound in Shayol Ghul-"

"Were bound." Aginor smiled; his ytellowed teeth had the look of fangs. "Some of us are bound no longer. The seals weaken, Aes Sedai. Like Ishamael, we walk the world again, and soon the rest of us will come. I was too close to this world in my captivity, I and Balthamel, too close to the grinding of the Wheel, but soon the Great Lord of the Dark will be free, and give is new flesh, and the world will be ours once more.

 

So this passage seems to suggest that Ishamael either hasnt been in captivity at all during the past 2000 years or that he was bound as close to the world and the grinding of the wheel as Aginor and Balthamel were. Why does he not show the same wear and tear of the years as those two?

 

 

No good reason. By all of the logic we have been give of how his binding worked, he should be old and withered.

 

That he isn't is just...one of those things.

 

 

Agreed. This was one of the very few issues where RJ used no real consistency. Look at the freed Third Age Forsaken: Demandred, Rhavin and Sammael (except for one scar that he COULD have removed) were all respun back out as super handsome dudes. ... Lanfear and Graendal were recycled as impossibly hot and Aginor and Balthamael came out ugly, old and withered.

 

No real pattern there.

 

 

- Fish

[Xader]

Well, 1st gen Ishamael could be old and withered, having been free for who knows how long. But I think he just permanently wove mist of mirrors over himself to give the illusion of a better looking / fiery dood.

 

This was my first thought as well.

 

But perhaps it has to do with the degree to which he was bound. Aginor and Balthamel were fully bound, but near the surface. Ishy was only partially bound. Perhaps not sealed away at all, but outside the bore, only unable to leave. Perhaps he just sat at Shayol Ghul brooding. Do we know for certain whether the FS are truly immortal or not?

 

It's a long shot, but who knows?

[A2597]

Well, 1st gen Ishamael could be old and withered, having been free for who knows how long. But I think he just permanently wove mist of mirrors over himself to give the illusion of a better looking / fiery dood.

[Sid]

Could be worth asking Brandon if there's any mention in RJ's notes pertaining to it, since I don't think it was mentioned in the interview database that theoryland keeps. As far as I know RJ never really went into detail about Ishamael's captivity other than that he was spun out from time to time. I think he wanted to be secretive about a few things at the time people asked questions related to that.

[Myrenna]

In the Eye of the World, we mostly only see Ishamael in Tel'aran'rhiod -- where one can change one's appearance merely by believing. I'd really like to be able to speculate with you, but, Ishamael has flames for eyes and a mouth: that's clearly not natural, so he must be weaving a mirror of mists.

[fikkie77]

The fire in eyes and mouths are a direct consequence of a long and intens use of the True Power.

 

I guess Ishy hasn't aged, because he's the only one really given immortality by the Dark One. That's why he didn't age. The other explanation is dat Ishy was released earlier than Aginor and Belthamol and that the Dark had enough time to rejuvinate him, but he didn´t have enough time for the other two.

[Myrenna]

I thought it was just the saa that were the effects of the True Power. Sorry if I was wrong, I'll go read up on that one.

[The Fisher King]

In the Eye of the World, we mostly only see Ishamael in Tel'aran'rhiod -- where one can change one's appearance merely by believing. I'd really like to be able to speculate with you, but, Ishamael has flames for eyes and a mouth: that's clearly not natural, so he must be weaving a mirror of mists.

 

Excellent Points.

 

 

- Fish

[ImNoBloodyHero]

He used a lot of Oil of Olay.

[moratcorlm]

Ishamael's body rotted almost instantly when he finally died. In addition to the fact that he was exposed to less time than Aginor or Balthamel, we know that the True Power has restorative properties, in a sense: we see Aginor's body becoming stronger as he uses the True Power in EOTW (per Jordan's explanation), and we see the scars from the burns Rand inflicted at the end of EOTW healing themselves through the second book. There was a lot of work going into keeping him reasonably presentable.

[Finnssss22]

It is mentioned quite a few times early by various Forsaken how the healing preformed by the AS of this age is crude and would be considered quick battlefield patching at best. It is also mentioned that true healing comes from the power not the patient.

In Graendal's POV in Chpt 6 of LoC she relays to us that Semirhage could take Sammael's facial scar away even after all this time.

 

I have no doubt that Nynaeve, Sumeko and Flinn could do it as well as it appears that they definitely practice true healing.

 

On another note, I do find it interesting that some things can only be healed by the opposite sex properly in the other like Stilling/Gentling.

[Majsju]

I thought it was just the saa that were the effects of the True Power. Sorry if I was wrong, I'll go read up on that one.

 

Burning eyes and mouth is a later stage of the Saa.

[coolpool]

i think it was because the DO and ishy were like sperate but joinned in books 1-3.. like, the DO was Ishy but Ishy wasn't the dark one if you get what i mean...

 

since we don't know alot about what their link entailed, the link with the DO could cause his non decaying (though he was healing in books 2-3ish but i think this was a side affect to the vastness of the TP or the DO with his joinning thing with ishy which is a thing against nature and the vast immenceity of the DO essence (entity) within ishy was too much for a mortal being and could have caused the burntness.. as ishy does say that something about too much 'power' causing his burns) and even though he was free-ish to act on the world as a DO-ishy blend thing.. the DO was influencing ishy and given him power.. and we don't know alot about the DO's TP and so it could have sustained ishy throughout the 3000 years ishy was trapped..

 

and like someone said above, he rotted immediatly sugesting he has been sustained or preseved for a long time causing time to catch up on him when the body is no longer sustaining...

 

see.. the DO needed ishy to be sustained so that he could carry on infleunceing the world through him as that is why he must have mead the link thing... as a desperate attempt to lay a finger on the pattern, but it would be had to do as he would need someone both in the bore so he can touch them and someone also outside the bore so that he could touch the pattern through them as the prizon seals the DO of from the pattern. SO ishy was the only one he could use for this purpose and if ishy died then no more manipulating the pattern untill the seals weaken enough... so he needed ishy to stay alive so he forced ishy to stay alive so that he can carry on causing chaos and grief.. and to carry on mainupulating things in the pattern

 

i hope i explained that properlly..

[AdamPollard]

yea I suppose that mkaes sense...I figured it probably had something to do with the power because as you said aginor seemed to be growing more and more healthy...so maybe since ish was able to come out from time to time each time he did he rejuvinated.

[randsc]

yea I suppose that mkaes sense...I figured it probably had something to do with the power because as you said aginor seemed to be growing more and more healthy...so maybe since ish was able to come out from time to time each time he did he rejuvinated.

 

 

I find your user name disturbing. You are just the kind of person who is poisoning political discourse, and causing nutjobs to shoot politicians.

 

 

/sarcasm

[Xader]

yea I suppose that mkaes sense...I figured it probably had something to do with the power because as you said aginor seemed to be growing more and more healthy...so maybe since ish was able to come out from time to time each time he did he rejuvinated.

 

 

I find your user name disturbing. You are just the kind of person who is poisoning political discourse, and causing nutjobs to shoot politicians.

 

 

/sarcasm

 

Really? Because the networks give me the impression that the Glock corporation is causing it all.

[AdamPollard]

wait a minute....my names isnt sarah palin...