Brandon's Easter Egg Comments

[Luckers]

Only Ishamael and Lanfear have the Talent of sensing the ta’maral’ailen around a ta'veren, and that's only around ta'veren. Perhaps Rand does as well, but it doesn't explain a universal ability to identify or sense souls.

 

Actually, based on KoD it seems that it just a skill, not a Talent. Moridin implies anyone can do it, and Graendal seemingly agrees, for all that she states that its tricky.

 

"Perrin Aybara and Mat Cauthon are ta'veren, easily found. Find them, and kill them."

 

Graendal laughed, a mirthless sound. "Finding ta'veren was never as simple as you made out, and now it's harder than ever. The whole Pattern is in flux, full of shifts and spikes."

[threadnecromancer]

The more Brandon talks, the more I want Jordan back.

 

Can you elaborate a little? You don't like him spoiling things? You don't like what he says? You don't like how he says it? Or you just wish RJ would give us the answers rather than BWS? I'm confused by your statement.

 

I'm more and more convinced as we discuss here and in the "Rand's Newfound Abilities" thread that Rand and all other AoL powerful channelers had the ability to sense threads (or people) in the Patterns. Whether or not they were channelers. Rand uses that power now at maximum capacity because of his integration with Lews Therin.

 

I would think they'd have to be able to see threads. I mean they created Nym, and we were told by Jordan that Nym have "borrowed" souls in them. That means in the AOL the Channelers knew how to get access to souls and also manipulate them, else they'd never be able to put a soul into the Nym.

 

Do you know where he mentioned that? It sounds interesting (and disturbing).

[Agelmar]

Only Ishamael and Lanfear have the Talent of sensing the ta’maral’ailen around a ta'veren, and that's only around ta'veren. Perhaps Rand does as well, but it doesn't explain a universal ability to identify or sense souls.

 

Actually, based on KoD it seems that it just a skill, not a Talent. Moridin implies anyone can do it, and Graendal seemingly agrees, for all that she states that its tricky.

 

"Perrin Aybara and Mat Cauthon are ta'veren, easily found. Find them, and kill them."

 

Graendal laughed, a mirthless sound. "Finding ta'veren was never as simple as you made out, and now it's harder than ever. The whole Pattern is in flux, full of shifts and spikes."

 

That comment doesn't seem to support a skill of finding ta'veren, or at least not a Skill. It seems to me that Moridin was merely noting that ta'veren cannot pass unnoticed (although perhaps unrecognized). Moraine, et al. easily tracked Rand in The Dragon Reborn by the ripples in the Pattern he created. As Graendal aptly notes, the dramatic increase in Bubbles of Evil also serves to obscure the ta'veren effect--what they cause just isn't that abnormal in a world where the abnormal is becoming commonplace.

[jemron]

Only Ishamael and Lanfear have the Talent of sensing the ta’maral’ailen around a ta'veren, and that's only around ta'veren. Perhaps Rand does as well, but it doesn't explain a universal ability to identify or sense souls.

 

Actually, based on KoD it seems that it just a skill, not a Talent. Moridin implies anyone can do it, and Graendal seemingly agrees, for all that she states that its tricky.

 

"Perrin Aybara and Mat Cauthon are ta'veren, easily found. Find them, and kill them."

 

Graendal laughed, a mirthless sound. "Finding ta'veren was never as simple as you made out, and now it's harder than ever. The whole Pattern is in flux, full of shifts and spikes."

 

That comment doesn't seem to support a skill of finding ta'veren, or at least not a Skill. It seems to me that Moridin was merely noting that ta'veren cannot pass unnoticed (although perhaps unrecognized). Moraine, et al. easily tracked Rand in The Dragon Reborn by the ripples in the Pattern he created. As Graendal aptly notes, the dramatic increase in Bubbles of Evil also serves to obscure the ta'veren effect--what they cause just isn't that abnormal in a world where the abnormal is becoming commonplace.

 

I think I remember reading somewhere that Moridin and Forsaken do in-fact have the ability to somehow "track down" ta'veren. Like it is a skill, not just something "easy to do." As a matter of fact, I get the impression that the only reason they haven't been able to very successfully track down the three ta'veren is because the Pattern is protecting, meaning, their ta'veren natures and the effects thereof may be easy to spot if you're in the same city, but may also help to protect them or keep them from being found by evil-doers.

[TheAngryDruid]

@Jemron - That's pretty much the same thing I've been thinking since TOM. Rand is bluffing. That doesn't mean his ta'verenness isn't in turbo-mode, but a lot of what he does in TOM stinks of Jesus parallels, which is of course why everyone is calling him Jesus Rand. Part of that is true miracles - I mean, just using the Power makes for true miracles, and he's got uber-ta'verenness on top of that. So of course it's not all swagger. But part of it is sort of along the lines of the Jefferson Bible IMO.

 

The biggest clue IMO was the letter from Verin (via Tiana), followed by the scene with Weiramon and Anaiyella. I'm not saying there wasn't a real effect of his Lightgaze. I just don't think he can tell Darkfriends by sight. There was a tip in the letter, perhaps with names, perhaps not, and Rand decided to put all the High Lords and Ladies on the spot. He wasn't sure until Weiramon couldn't meet his gaze.

 

While I understand where you are coming from, we have a fundamental disagreement here. As you point out, Weiramon cannot meet his gaze, nor Anaiyella (sp?). Does it really matter if he "senses" they are are DF by something he sees in their eyes or something else, or the fact that they can't meet his gaze. In either case, they are busted, and it ain't no bluff.

 

As Rand says when he confronts Weiramon, "It IS you." Or some such. He wasn't sure until he looked into his eyes, and/or Weiramon couldn't meet his gaze. And we know from Maradon Rand does have a very real effect on DF's who view him. That certainly isn't a bluff, he wasn't even aware they were watching him.

[mossman87]

The more Brandon talks, the more I want Jordan back.

 

Can you elaborate a little? You don't like him spoiling things? You don't like what he says? You don't like how he says it? Or you just wish RJ would give us the answers rather than BWS? I'm confused by your statement.

 

I'm more and more convinced as we discuss here and in the "Rand's Newfound Abilities" thread that Rand and all other AoL powerful channelers had the ability to sense threads (or people) in the Patterns. Whether or not they were channelers. Rand uses that power now at maximum capacity because of his integration with Lews Therin.

 

I would think they'd have to be able to see threads. I mean they created Nym, and we were told by Jordan that Nym have "borrowed" souls in them. That means in the AOL the Channelers knew how to get access to souls and also manipulate them, else they'd never be able to put a soul into the Nym.

 

Do you know where he mentioned that? It sounds interesting (and disturbing).

 

Sure, here you go:

 

 

Wotmania/Dragonmount Q&A - 9 December 2002

Q: How does the idea of souls apply to constructs such as Nym and Trollocs? Could either of them be reborn?

RJ: To whoever put this one forward, this is one of the best questions I've ever gotten! Nym and Trollocs both have souls, and either could be reborn, but since Nym were a pure construct (i.e. each of them was individually made, like hand-crafting) a Nym would not be reborn as a Nym. You might say that a Nym's soul was borrowed temporarily from the supply of souls awaiting rebirth. A Trolloc, however, bears a twisted, or corrupted soul, and would be reborn as a Trolloc. Though frankly, a Trolloc's soul is such a pitiful thing, it hardly seems worth calling a soul.

 

[Terez]

@Angry Druid - Try not to get too particular about things that I'm obviously not even trying to imply.

 

Brandon has been hinting today that Lews Therin was also 'one with the land', and that he knew it. That could be a big clue as to what he's getting at with the 'Easter egg'. It feels a bit like retcon, but whatever.

[Mandro]

With regard to Rand's apparent ability to sense darkfriends.... You'll recall that certain powerful servants of the Shadow, such as Fain specifically, and most certainly the Forsaken, can look at someone and tell if they've sworn to the Shadow. Fain says in his POV once that he can even tell if someone had THOUGHT about swearing to the Shadow. He could see something like a sooty mark on these people's forhead and tell that they served the Shadow. I don't think it's too far fetched to believe that the champion of the Light could in some way sense darkfriends in the same way, maybe by simply looking people in the eyes.

 

Another thing, speaking of Travelling, in the EoTW prologue, when Lews Therin Travels, it simply says he travels and then appears somewhere else. No mention of a Gateway. Then we see Elan Morin basically "fade into view" in some way, again with no mention of a Gateway. Is it possible there's another form of Travelling that is simply like self teleportation? Or was this simply the way RJ wrote the scene?

 

I also believe that when rand traveled from the EotW to Tarwins Gap he "folded in on himself." Been a while since I read TEotW but I think I'm pretty close. I think it was the same description in The Crown of Swords.

[moratcorlm]

In the EOTW prologue Ishamael Traveled using the True Power. Lews Therin presumably used the ordinary method, and there was simply no need to describe it. What Rand did in EOTW51 is unclear, partly because the writing is trippy, partly because Rand is "stunned", and partly because Rand has absolutely no idea what he's doing; this is true to a lesser degree in TDR55, after he's begun to be better attuned to saidin and can sort of sense what a weave is doing, even if he can't really differentiate between the threads yet. It isn't until after TSR that he's able to weave consciously instead of just waving his hand and performing magic.

 

For those reasons, I would be very careful about ascribing new powers based solely on what's described in Rand POVs in EOTW.

[Terez]

I'm not convinced that Rand even channeled there. It was very odd. It seemed to come in response to the IT IS NOT HERE conversation. The only thing speaking for it is the steps, since we are given the impression in TSR that this is an overly complicated way of Skimming. But if someone else made the weave for him they might have wanted to make him work for it a little bit.

[blazetheearth]

With all the talk about the "borrowed souls" of the Nym's and the idea of tracking or "sensing" threads in the Pattern, I have to wonder why Brigette has not been brought in to this discussion. Moggy cast her soul from TAR and gave it flesh. This was a pretty spec-damn-tacular in and of itself. We saw Moridin/Ishy pull items from TAR (Rand's splinter) before, but casting a soul out and giving it flesh is on a completely different level. My question is could LTT do this also? We know he can enter TAR in the flesh like the Chosen can. Did Moggy's ability to do this to Brigette indicate that she has some special affinity for souls that others don't? If so, it would establish precedence for LTT having an affinity for them. Lanfear showed the ability to "track" Rand by following his 'ta'verenistic nature' through the Pattern, it might be a simple refinement of this skill to track any individual (not just ta'veren) within the Pattern.

[KrisAnton]

I always found it odd that Ishamael "shimmers" and appears, he doesn't step out of a gateway. LTT later opens a gateway, so it is a different way of traveling?

[Incom]

It's TP traveling IB.

[OptimusPrime]

It's TP traveling IB.

 

In ToM Moridin weaves a True Power gateway for Graendal. She can see the flows. So I think theres more than one way of doing it with the True Power. Either that or the phase-out thing Moridin did was the same thing a Fade does.

[Terez]

Nope, it's the same thing. It wasn't a gateway:

 

He opened a portal for her with a wave of the hand; her faint ability to touch the True Power - that hadn't been removed from her - allowed her to see twisted weaves stab the air and rend it, ripping a hole in the fabric of the Pattern. The air shimmered there. It would lead back to her hidden cavern, she knew.

Interestingly, this confirms that Moridin's guards are Asha'man (or channelers anyway). No surprise there.

[Nooska]

Nope, it's the same thing. It wasn't a gateway:

 

He opened a portal for her with a wave of the hand; her faint ability to touch the True Power - that hadn't been removed from her - allowed her to see twisted weaves stab the air and rend it, ripping a hole in the fabric of the Pattern. The air shimmered there. It would lead back to her hidden cavern, she knew.

Interestingly, this confirms that Moridin's guards are Asha'man (or channelers anyway). No surprise there.

How does the quoted section in any way say anything about whether or not Moridin's guards are Asha'Man or channelers? I agree that they are, but I see no confirmation or indication in that quote of that - We already know Moridin prefers using the TP over the OP, so that he makes a TP portal says nothing about the channeling ability of his guards.

[Terez]

Because the men who always come to fetch her weave actual gateways for her.

 

There were other reasons to suspect that, though. Such as the fact that channelers would probably be required to guard the fortress from the nasty things that live so far north in the Blight.

[General Cauthon]

For those who have been following @BrandonSandrson on Twitter as he does the WoT re-read, you may have noticed that he mentioned something very interesting about the prologue of tEotW. He said:

 

WoT Easter Egg: there's an easily overlooked line in the EotW prologue which gives huge foreshadowing of things Rand can do in TofM. #wotrr

 

Then later there was some speculation on Twitter by Theoryland members and others, and he eventually confirmed that the easter egg had to do with Lews Therin sensing that nobody was around for miles:

 

The Easter egg in the prologue has to do with Lews Therin sensing the lack of people around him for miles and miles. #wotrr

 

So... my theory: This relates to Rand's "newfound" abilities to "lock on" to Darkfriends and/or Trollocs, "see" into people's souls, and, as someone mentioned on Twitter, it also probably explains why Rand and also the Forsaken are able to Travel so closely to people (like into there homes or tents) without cutting them in two, while other more "primitive" channelers can't do that.

 

I have a long thread that I created awhile back that you can find here about my theories on Rand's new powers, but I don't think there is anything new or special about them now, except that he now just knows everything that Lews Therin knew right before he died. Lews Therin was not only a highly experienced channeler with hundreds of years experience, but he was the MOST powerful channeler of his Age afaik, and he was (and still is as Rand) the most powerful ta'veren ever.

 

So, I have several questions about this easter egg. Did other channelers of the AoL have this same ability that Lews Therin (and now Rand) had to sense "threads of the Pattern" or people? Or is this just limited to ta'veren? Is this ability related to Rand being able to "single out" DFs and Trollocs and such?

 

What am I overlooking? Discuss!!

 

When Lanfear visited Mat in Tar Valon, she suddenly decided to leave, right before Siuan and Leane arrives. I don't have the books with me, so I can't give you a quote, but either a weave alerted Lanfear that someone was coming, or she can sense people like LTT.

[moratcorlm]

Don't forget that embracing saidar enhances your senses. She may simply have heard them; we don't know how busy that particular hallway was.

[blazetheearth]

 

When Lanfear visited Mat in Tar Valon, she suddenly decided to leave, right before Siuan and Leane arrives. I don't have the books with me, so I can't give you a quote, but either a weave alerted Lanfear that someone was coming, or she can sense people like LTT.

 

While I could see it interpreted this way, the way I always read that scene was that Lanfear could sense the ability to channel in Suian and Leane as they approached, and left before they would have been able to see her. They wouldn't have been able to sense her because of the weave that hides the ability to channel.

[jemron]

 

When Lanfear visited Mat in Tar Valon, she suddenly decided to leave, right before Siuan and Leane arrives. I don't have the books with me, so I can't give you a quote, but either a weave alerted Lanfear that someone was coming, or she can sense people like LTT.

 

While I could see it interpreted this way, the way I always read that scene was that Lanfear could sense the ability to channel in Suian and Leane as they approached, and left before they would have been able to see her. They wouldn't have been able to sense her because of the weave that hides the ability to channel.

 

Agreed. This could be used to argue for the fact that Forsaken can sense individuals, but it is by no way conclusive. She may have also just heard them, or sensed their ability, or something else. Correlation is not causation... or something like that.

 

The more I think about it, the more I'm sure that Lews Therin and Rand both, as the Dragon, have a "special ability" that no one else has (except maybe Moridin BECAUSE of his link with Rand.) Who knows?, maybe Ishy and Lews Therin had a simiilar strange link with each other back in the AoL??