ToM grammatical errors

[MichaelOfTheWhite]

I was disappointed by the frequency of errors in the printed text of this book. I understand that some errors will evade an editor's notice - it's inevitable that mistakes will appear; we humans are imperfect. However there are simply too many in this book. I also noticed that most errors seemed to be editorial errors.

For example, words were repeated often in the same or other nearby sentences. Concepts, usually best explained in a single sentence, were put into two disparate sentences with a conjuncted grammatical error that seemed to say 'I, the author, tried to mash two paragrahps together, but didn't patch it up properly afterwards' - in other words, a copy-paste error. That indicates speedy, inaccurate writing. A rushed job.

 

I wonder if BS really did do a lot of copy-paste from RJ's notes and that's what we're seeing? Or is it poor editing by Tor and its agents?

 

Shouldn't we be demanding a higher literary standard here? I can't recall many errors at all in previous WoT books. Why so many now?

 

I suspect that deadlines are a concern here.

[Ananta]

We, the fans, seem to want it all (and I suppose that's understandable). But if we want it all, then we also have to make the "sacrifice" of waiting longer for the book to come out.

 

This book is almost 900 pages long. And if they want to stay even remotely on schedule, they simply can't provide us with grammatically perfect book.

 

 

I, personally, would rather take shitload of typos and other grammatical errors than wait few extra months for the book to come out.

[JenniferL]

Due to the rushed production schedule, there wasn't time for a proper copy edit of the book. They will be correcting the typos in the next edition. It's regrettable, but it happens.

[nolirion]

You would be horrified with the translation French editor did with the Wheel of Time .

[daveq65]

That makes it awkward for me. Do I wait a few months extra for a new edit of the e-book or get it on January 31st. Just how bad is it? If it's too bad to read I'll wait I think.

[Ananta]

And then again, the grammatical errors don't bother me all that much because I'm from Finland, so English isn't my native language.

 

I guess I'd be more bothered if English was my mother language (although I'm fluent in English, I'm still not as good as native speaker would be).

[The Fisher King]

We, the fans, seem to want it all (and I suppose that's understandable). But if we want it all, then we also have to make the "sacrifice" of waiting longer for the book to come out.

 

This book is almost 900 pages long. And if they want to stay even remotely on schedule, they simply can't provide us with grammatically perfect book.

 

 

I, personally, would rather take shitload of typos and other grammatical errors than wait few extra months for the book to come out.

 

 

Me too. Does that make me a sellout, lol?

 

 

- Fish

[moratcorlm]

It's not like the previous first-edition books have been free of errors (I can remember several women embracing saidin, and so on), but this is probably the worst of the lot to date. As on these forums, extensive spelling and grammar mistakes become quite distracting and greatly interfere with my immersion in the story.

 

On the bright side, at least none of the grammatically correct sentences that I noticed made me throw the book at the wall, like the infamous "He seemed too shocked to move, but she shoved him into motion and he began to move." from TGS.

[yoniy0]

I can remember several women embracing saidin

No, silly, Halima is actually a male Forsaken transmigrated in a female body.

[moratcorlm]

No, not that. I'm pretty sure Rand seized saidar once, too.

[yoniy0]

[MichaelOfTheWhite]

We, the fans, seem to want it all (and I suppose that's understandable). But if we want it all, then we also have to make the "sacrifice" of waiting longer for the book to come out.

 

This book is almost 900 pages long. And if they want to stay even remotely on schedule, they simply can't provide us with grammatically perfect book.

 

 

I, personally, would rather take shitload of typos and other grammatical errors than wait few extra months for the book to come out.

With respect: speak for yourself. I'm a reader that is proud of the intelligence and attention to detail with which this series was orchestrated. Chief amongst RJ's concerns was good spelling and grammar, because of his masterful use of ambiguity and paradox. I like what BS is doing with the last three books, but Tor has a responsibility which I feel they are failing to meet: maintining standards in their projects.

 

Please also remember that we 'fans' keep Harriet and co in relative comfort, with a good standard of living. The production of further books and other projects will assist them further. My expectation is that, in return, they deliver the proper quality of goods. Poor quality now could turn into bankruptcy for them later. Have you asked yourself what happens when the last book is finished? I'm certain they have. It's in our best interests to complain about poor quality when it occurs; and theirs as well, because that helps assure a whole lifetime of quality WoT-universe stuff that we can look forward to.

[Muad Cheade]

We, the fans, seem to want it all (and I suppose that's understandable). But if we want it all, then we also have to make the "sacrifice" of waiting longer for the book to come out.

 

This book is almost 900 pages long. And if they want to stay even remotely on schedule, they simply can't provide us with grammatically perfect book.

 

 

I, personally, would rather take shitload of typos and other grammatical errors than wait few extra months for the book to come out.

With respect: speak for yourself. I'm a reader that is proud of the intelligence and attention to detail with which this series was orchestrated. Chief amongst RJ's concerns was good spelling and grammar, because of his masterful use of ambiguity and paradox. I like what BS is doing with the last three books, but Tor has a responsibility which I feel they are failing to meet: maintining standards in their projects.

 

Please also remember that we 'fans' keep Harriet and co in relative comfort, with a good standard of living. The production of further books and other projects will assist them further. My expectation is that, in return, they deliver the proper quality of goods. Poor quality now could turn into bankruptcy for them later. Have you asked yourself what happens when the last book is finished? I'm certain they have. It's in our best interests to complain about poor quality when it occurs; and theirs as well, because that helps assure a whole lifetime of quality WoT-universe stuff that we can look forward to.

I believe he did speak for himself.

 

Yes, you are entitled to your opinion as is Ananta. As previously noted, grammatical errors were a result of the rushed delivery which was a result of fans clamoring for aMoL. The books are being corrected as per custom. What more could you ask for? A perfect book I suppose, but I doubt there is such a thing. Do I wish there were no errors? Yes. Do I accept that human beings are fallible and are bound to make mistakes, grammatical or otherwise? Yes. As long as the mistakes are acknowledged and rectified, I have no issue with it.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by bankruptcy. Tor is one of the most profitable publishers and I would probably be right in guessing that the sales alone of the previous ten books made the Jordans wealthy. I wouldn't jump the gun and imply that money is the only reason they are making the books. I would think they've come to love and appreciate the fans in the 21 years since tEotW.

[ajfurst]

We, the fans, seem to want it all (and I suppose that's understandable). But if we want it all, then we also have to make the "sacrifice" of waiting longer for the book to come out.

 

This book is almost 900 pages long. And if they want to stay even remotely on schedule, they simply can't provide us with grammatically perfect book.

 

 

I, personally, would rather take shitload of typos and other grammatical errors than wait few extra months for the book to come out.

With respect: speak for yourself. I'm a reader that is proud of the intelligence and attention to detail with which this series was orchestrated. Chief amongst RJ's concerns was good spelling and grammar, because of his masterful use of ambiguity and paradox. I like what BS is doing with the last three books, but Tor has a responsibility which I feel they are failing to meet: maintining standards in their projects.

 

Please also remember that we 'fans' keep Harriet and co in relative comfort, with a good standard of living. The production of further books and other projects will assist them further. My expectation is that, in return, they deliver the proper quality of goods. Poor quality now could turn into bankruptcy for them later. Have you asked yourself what happens when the last book is finished? I'm certain they have. It's in our best interests to complain about poor quality when it occurs; and theirs as well, because that helps assure a whole lifetime of quality WoT-universe stuff that we can look forward to.

I believe he did speak for himself.

 

Yes, you are entitled to your opinion as is Ananta. As previously noted, grammatical errors were a result of the rushed delivery which was a result of fans clamoring for aMoL. The books are being corrected as per custom. What more could you ask for? A perfect book I suppose, but I doubt there is such a thing. Do I wish there were no errors? Yes. Do I accept that human beings are fallible and are bound to make mistakes, grammatical or otherwise? Yes. As long as the mistakes are acknowledged and rectified, I have no issue with it.

A book can only be late once, it can be bad for eternity. Whilst I expect the typo's to be fixed up in later releases (no help for those who have 1st editions of all hardcovers), I doubt much of the poor grammer from joining RJ and BS's work, plot continuity problems (e.g. Grady re-telling Perrin about the Cleansing) or ones that just needed more passes through the editing / review process to make more readable will get fixed.

 

The announcement I'd like for AMOL is them to announce the date it could be out to the fans if BS/Team Jordan/TOR put it out as fast as TGS and TOM, then they announce it will come out 3 months later so there can be more beta-reading for continuity issues, less typo's, more seamless joining of BS's and RJ's parts and the whole thing flow more smoothly in general. Nothing that can't be accomplished, if they are just willing to give us the best possible AMOL rather than the one that will placate some fans and get them money the quickest.

[Fains nose]

i couldnt care less about those little typos, or rand embraced saidar errors, they are a result of the book being rushed so we could all read it sooner. and if you look at the early edidtions of all the other books theres errors like what people mentioned, Saidin and Saidar getting mixed up, typos, my copy of The Great Hunt even has Lan sharpening his sword under a tree (even though his sword is power-wrought) an error that was corrected in later editions of The Great Hunt, just like all the errors and typos etc. in ToM will be changed later on. just be grateful we got to get the book as soon as we did

[samataim]

No, not that. I'm pretty sure Rand seized saidar once, too.

 

He is The Dragon Reborn. I see what you mean though, he would be embracing it, not seizing it.

[Iriath Zhul]

I'm with the others who've been saying that it'd be better to get the book sooner rather than later, even if that means it's going to have a few more typos and such. Just so long as it's polished in terms of the plot and everything, I'm fine with not waiting two months while some poor editor goes over all 1200 pages or whatever with a fine-toothed comb.

 

Although I must confess I did exclaim aloud at one point at all the typos I was seeing. Maybe it's just 'cause I read an 850-page book in the space of three days, something I don't often do.

 

Meanwhile...is it just me, or does "seizing" saidar sound like rape? I mean, maybe Rand could do that. I forget the instance in which this alleged incident occurred. If it was [mini-spoiler!] before the end of TGS, I could see it fitting into his character.

[Muad Cheade]

No, not that. I'm pretty sure Rand seized saidar once, too.

 

He is The Dragon Reborn. I see what you mean though, he would be embracing it, not seizing it.

 

 

Meanwhile...is it just me, or does "seizing" saidar sound like rape? I mean, maybe Rand could do that. I forget the instance in which this alleged incident occurred. If it was [mini-spoiler!] before the end of TGS, I could see it fitting into his character.

 

The typo is that Rand, like all men, channels saidin while women channel saidar. That error occurred in one of the earlier books, possibly tEotW.

[Mr Ares]

Have you asked yourself what happens when the last book is finished?

We get, at most, five more WoT novels (the two prequels and three outriggers RJ had planned), an encyclopaedia, and Tor goes on to try and make Stormlight Archive their new cash cow franchise. After AMoL, we might not get any more novels. As for quality, Tor publishes Terry Goodkind. Quality of product is therefore not their primary concern. You can kick up a fuss about some errors that they were planning to fix in later printings anyway, if it makes you feel any better, but I doubt it will make any appreciable difference to Tor, how much money it makes or its business practices.

 

Meanwhile...is it just me, or does "seizing" saidar sound like rape?

I think it probably is just you. On the other hand, surely this could serve as inspiration for some really bad WoT erotica?

 

And given this is a thread about grammatical errors, surely I can't be the only one tempted to clear up some of the mistakes various posters have made in the thread?

"less typo's" should be "fewer typos". I feel much better now.

[Guest laasser]

Why do we all have to keep complaining about errors, once said is enough.

Why not list them & help instead, so reprints come out correctly.

Use page numbers also.

Be positive & not negative people.

Regards Laasser

[Feral]

I'm not too bothered by typos, unless they're so bad I can't understand what it is supposed to be. But I do find it quite strange that so many typos slip through. I mean, if your average reader can pick up so many errors, why can't an experienced professional editor who's getting paid for it? Talking about books in general, btw, not just WoT.

[samataim]

No, not that. I'm pretty sure Rand seized saidar once, too.

 

He is The Dragon Reborn. I see what you mean though, he would be embracing it, not seizing it.

 

 

Meanwhile...is it just me, or does "seizing" saidar sound like rape? I mean, maybe Rand could do that. I forget the instance in which this alleged incident occurred. If it was [mini-spoiler!] before the end of TGS, I could see it fitting into his character.

 

The typo is that Rand, like all men, channels saidin while women channel saidar. That error occurred in one of the earlier books, possibly tEotW.

 

Indeed, I should have ladled a tad more sarcasm on my post. I was attempting to joke that being The Dragon Reborn allows him to access saidar as well as saidin...

[mrmadness]

This would appear to many to be targeting MichaelOfTheWhite specifically as an angry rebuttal. Keep in mind that this is just me speaking to many about something that appears to keep resurfacing. No offense is intended and I'm not looking for a fight, just some thought. Apologies to MOTW if any offenses are conveyed. You just happen to be the one I noticed that wrote it, leaving your post as the only one I could bounce off of. This is just something for people to chew on before they post stuff about authors specifically and not the world they write about.

 

I'm a reader that is proud of the intelligence and attention to detail with which this series was orchestrated. Chief amongst RJ's concerns was good spelling and grammar, because of his masterful use of ambiguity and paradox.

 

That may be true, but where does the element of humanity enter the picture? RJ is still human, as are his editors. The nice thing about the human brain is it can take rough spots in reading and smooth them out enough to make sense.

 

I like what BS is doing with the last three books, but Tor has a responsibility which I feel they are failing to meet: maintining standards in their projects.

 

Possibly. However, keep in mind that a schedule could also be considered a "standard". True, for some it would be nice to have a book that was perfect is all essences of the english literary standard, but for others it would be nice to have a book that didn't go through 10 years of editing and revisions before it was published.

 

Please also remember that we 'fans' keep Harriet and co in relative comfort, with a good standard of living. The production of further books and other projects will assist them further. My expectation is that, in return, they deliver the proper quality of goods. Poor quality now could turn into bankruptcy for them later. Have you asked yourself what happens when the last book is finished? I'm certain they have.

 

I've never met a writer yet that started writing with the goal of a paycheck in mind. It usually starts with a story. The royalties are just a nice kickback. Authors get rich because people like us buy the books they write. If we didn't like them, they wouldn't be rich. And just as a thought, I think any author that was told they appeared to be "all about the Benjamins" would be insulted.

 

It's in our best interests to complain about poor quality when it occurs; and theirs as well, because that helps assure a whole lifetime of quality WoT-universe stuff that we can look forward to.

 

I completely agree with this. My only addition is to allow a small amount of revision to occur before complaining. Look at how many times the wheel has been revised. Before the revision, call it a suggestion. After, call it a complaint. In the mean time, suggest a lot of prequels, sequels and side stories to keep our reading habits happy. Very happy.

[MichaelOfTheWhite]

Apologies to MOTW if any offenses are conveyed.

None taken! Thans for your diplomacy.

 

That may be true, but where does the element of humanity enter the picture?

I mentioned the humanity factor in my first post.

 

Possibly. However, keep in mind that a schedule could also be considered a "standard". True, for some it would be nice to have a book that was perfect is all essences of the english literary standard, but for others it would be nice to have a book that didn't go through 10 years of editing and revisions before it was published.

True enough. But none of this detracts from the fact that a hardback edition of ToM was released which was of an improper standard of quality - that's all I'm saying.

 

I've never met a writer yet that started writing with the goal of a paycheck in mind.

Yes; it was probably just one goal amongst many.

 

It usually starts with a story. The royalties are just a nice kickback. Authors get rich because people like us buy the books they write. If we didn't like them, they wouldn't be rich. And just as a thought, I think any author that was told they appeared to be "all about the Benjamins" would be insulted.

Remember that 'humanity' aspect we spoke about? It's fair to say that there is some percentage of writers that are 'all about the benjamins' (a phrase I've not heard used before, by the way). That doesn't mean that RJ or BS are all about the benjamins. It also doesn't mean that I implied they were, either. It does mean that writers maintain their standard of living primarily by writing more books - otherwise they'd be writer/entrepeneurs, or writer/astronauts should they travel regularly to the moon and back. Most writers hire other people to handle such things for them, so that they can continue to focus on producing writing of a specific standard.

My point is that BS is now but one small part of the Jordan enterprise. Perhaps I should've made my point clear earlier - I often leave a lot unsaid, assuming that the reader will come to the same conclusions as I do - an arrogant assumption.

So: there is but one more book to be made (and a couple side books) before Jordan's original source material is exhausted. I imagine that the Jordan Co witnessed the success of Star Wars and other universes where fan-fiction and/or authorised fiction is produced decades after the original source material was exhausted. I can imagine that they then decided this was a reasonable way to proceed with the WoT universe.

It is, therefore, in their best intersts to maintain high standards of quality; because they are probably already well beyond the planning stage of the final book. More is to come. The creation of graphic novels and the work of Red Eagle indicate this.

Based on our previous experience (the quality of the last two book releases), what sort of quality, in general, can we expect from them in future? The answer: Rushed and incomplete; yet delivered on time.

I don't like the conclusion I've drawn. Do you?

 

I completely agree with this. My only addition is to allow a small amount of revision to occur before complaining. Look at how many times the wheel has been revised. Before the revision, call it a suggestion. After, call it a complaint. In the mean time, suggest a lot of prequels, sequels and side stories to keep our reading habits happy. Very happy.

That's very forgiving, but you are already a fan. You are pretty much guaranteed to purchase more WoT when it comes out. New customers might be attracted by whatever comes next from Jordan Co.

 

Lastly: to anyone that will post their opinion that I'm just complaining - feel free to do so. Saying that I am does not mean that I am, however.

[Arani Lepenque Aes Sedai]

No, not that. I'm pretty sure Rand seized saidar once, too.

 

Well, he DID do that in my version of Lord of Chaos, several times in the entire book.