Big Unnoticed Things

[Jblaylock]

... because of balefire accidents

 

 

Love it. For some reason I read that ending bit in Borat's voice. Balefire accidents. Is there such a thing? ha ha ha. Makes me picture Moridin or someone looking over his shoulder with an "oops" face as a purpleish haze slowy dissapears in front of him, and whisps of smoke rise in its place.

[capuga]

Taim was Taim is Moridin

I have believed for some time that Taim was actually Demandred in disguise, but that RJ changed his mind when the Taimandred hype started.

After learning more about RJ and the WOT, I'm very sure RJ rarely changes his mind about the characters (if ever) and certainly not about something this big.

The one I still think RJ changed is Aviendha being pregnant back in LOC - the scene with her and the Wise Ones, where she says Rand makes her sick in her stomach and they laugh at what she thinks is the reason. I think it then got dropped for Elayne pregnant later in WH, due to timeline issues (with how much remaining in the story and Avi would remain around Rand, whilst Elayne is off-screen from him, so there wouldn't be a Rand/Pregnant girl moment until after Rand's epiphany).

 

I always took that to mean that she had butterflies in her stomach. She had never been in love before and did not understand why she felt the way she did. Couple other things:

- Did she actually say sick to her stomach? I thought it was something along the lines of feeling like Rand had taken a piece of her chest/heart when he wasn't around so he must be causing her to be sick.

- Wasn't she saying this to the Wise Ones before they slept together in the Far Snows? She admitted and was no longer confused by her feelings for him at that point.

[WTF]

Anyone know what happened to the wagon loads of ter’angreal from the city in the waste? Because they seem to have disappeared for the story there seems to be no mention of them any were and surly someone would have motioned it i mean come on several wagonloads of ter’angreal arriving at the white tower. So it can’t have arrived, i think mordin(sp) must have got them, which explains his large amount of ter’angreal or have i just missed rand deciding not to send them

[Guest Emu on the Loose]

Off-topic: That "98 percent of children under age 10 are sociopaths" figure originates from The Onion; it's not a real news story:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/new-study-reveals-most-children-unrepentant-sociop,2870/

 

On-topic: I've always thought that fans never paid enough attention to this line from Lews Therin's point of view in the Prologue of TEotW:

 

Because in his pride he had believed that men could match the Creator, could mend what the Creator had made and they had broken. In his pride he had believed.

 

Rand & Co. have spent much of the series matching the Creator, or at least "mending" the Creator's work. So, here's a contradiction: Either Lews was wrong and mortals can indeed play god successfully, or he was right and they fundamentally can't. If they can play god, then Lanfear was right all along (in that humanity could have seized control of the Wheel of Time and ruled their own destiny), and our Good Guys may very well be barking up the wrong tree as they head into the Last Battle with the expectation of merely resealing the Dark One in his prison. And if mortals can't play god successfully, if they fundamentally can't, then what are all these miraculous deeds the good guys have been doing--which now includes both destroying the Taint and reversing its effects, the only direct intervention on the world the Dark One has been able to make in the course of the story? So far Rand has shown equal destructive power to the Dark One (because he had the chance to destroy the world), and he and Nyn have shown power reminiscent of the Creator in their ability to unwork the Dark One's touch. I just don't see how anyone could deny that that kind of power could, as Lanfear once put it, supplant the Dark One and challenge the Creator.

 

Lews Therin had those thoughts about pride after learning that he had murdered his family. The thoughts reveal that his prior disposition used to be reminiscent of Mierin's. Perhaps, regardless of how he remembers it, Lews Therin spurned Mierin because she was too much like himself. I think that's where Rand's seething desire from the end of ToM comes from. It's not desire for her good looks--which aren't present in Cyndane. I think it might be desire for the kind of person she is, and who, ultimately, he is too.

 

If any of this is relevant at all, then it could give us a big hint as to how the Last Battle will play out.

[Terez]

Anyone know what happened to the wagon loads of ter’angreal from the city in the waste? Because they seem to have disappeared for the story there seems to be no mention of them any were and surly someone would have motioned it i mean come on several wagonloads of ter’angreal arriving at the white tower. So it can’t have arrived, i think mordin(sp) must have got them, which explains his large amount of ter’angreal or have i just missed rand deciding not to send them

Check out the interview database linked in my sig. RJ says they're in Cairhien and warded.

[Mandro]

"3. Olver is full of massive ownage"

 

that was just funny, thanks for that.

 

I think (don't know if it's been mentioned) is my opinion that "The three becoming one" thing that they are trying to describe about calendor doesn't have to do with 3 people, though there will be three people, but rather about the powers. Saidin, Saidar and the True Power. But I think there is another 3 that is necessary, maybe matt perrin and Rand, but that seems trite. I think he would want 3 on 3 on 3 for the last battle. But I'm confident that "the three becoming one" thing will apply to the powers as well as to the players.

[Mandro]

And Olver is Hawkwing.

[Agelmar]

Off-topic: That "98 percent of children under age 10 are sociopaths" figure originates from The Onion; it's not a real news story:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/new-study-reveals-most-children-unrepentant-sociop,2870/

 

 

It is apropo, however. The story is funny because armchair psychologists are so quick to (mis)diagnose with only superficial details and a very limited understanding of how children actually think.

[coolpool]

Later we have Moridin in one of the Forsaken get together's claiming someone unknown, who he assumes to be Sammael has been ordering massive numbers of shadowspawn through the ways. None of the Forsaken present know what he's talking about. So the question is, is Sammael alive, or is there someone else passing themselves off as one of the Forsaken? It never says who this person is. I suppose it could be Taim if he is indeed one of the Forsaken from the Age of Legends that wasn't trapped in the bore, but survived in a stasis box/vacuole. But in any case, who was it that did these things?

 

RJ has confirmed that Sammael is dead, and due to the nature of Mashahadar's taint, cannot be transmigrated into a new body like the other Forsaken who have died. So it's not Sammael himself.

 

If it's not Demandred doing it for some reason, then I would say the most likely candidate is Taim. While I don't think he's one of the Forsaken from the AoL, he seems like the best candidate to be the Third Age's first new Forsaken.

 

umm, fain people..

 

i thought that obviously this must be fain.. our little phsyco friend.. he uses trollocs a lot (like in TSR) and the FS haven't really adressed him or know about him and so i thought straight away that it was fain.

[Callern]

Sociopathy is the lack of empathy. I am fairly certain 8-9 year olds are capable of sympathizing or empathizing with things, beings or people. 2-3 year olds however are not.

 

I remember Mat saying that Olver gives away his coats, no lack of empathy there.

[sfgiantsfanmike]

Heh, I am going through the series one last time, ending with AMotL next year, and have made it to the Great Hunt. I just got to the part where Rand and Egwene are going to visit our friendly neighborhood pedler, Fain, and totally had a "d'oh" moment as I finally realized why the guards and prisoners are acting suspicious, rude in the one guards chase. Bad Fain corupting those around him... bad Fain.

 

Totally should have been obvious on first or at least second read through (started with 8-9 books out already) but just got it on my... what 10th, 12th read through? :shakes head at self:

[Simo]

Are you sure the ashandarei was the whole BUT or maybe just part of it-

 

Mat asked 6 questions not 3, and got 6 answers

Q1-Should I go home to help my people?- (A)- You must go to Rhuidean

Q2-Why should I?- (A)- if you don't go to Rhuidean you will die.

Q3-Why will I die if I don't go to Rhuidean?- (A)- You will have sidestepped the thread of fate, left your fate to drift on the winds of time, and you will be killed by those who do not want that fate fulfilled.

Q4-What fate are you Talking about?- (A)- To marry the daughter of the nine Moons

Q5-What fate burn your hearts what fate?- (A)- to die and live again and live once more a part of what was.

Q6-What fate?- (A)- To give up half the light of the world to save the word.

 

Mat asked for 5 things and got 5 things.

 

To have the holes in his memory filled....his memories were filled with other dudes memories.

A way to be free of Aes.Sedai... Seanchan

A way to be free of the One power....Foxhead Medallion.

He wants to be back in Rhuidean... He got hung in Rhuidean

& a way out.... got the Ashandarei.

[Kalm]

There's surely more to the Book of Translation than this, but here is what I think.

With Ogier being the songmasters, and the Tinkers looking for the "Song", when the Book of Translation is opened, the Tinkers will find the song. The Tinkers are the Aiel who have held on to the past. I bet they have a part to play yet.

 

Segin

 

 

I'm pretty sure that the Song is mixed up in a Ter'angreal that Aviendha had read way back in one of the books.

 

Oh wait no, that was the Talisman of Growing. Or is it both? Can someone help me out here?

[Tel Asra Nejoar]

There's surely more to the Book of Translation than this, but here is what I think.

With Ogier being the songmasters, and the Tinkers looking for the "Song", when the Book of Translation is opened, the Tinkers will find the song. The Tinkers are the Aiel who have held on to the past. I bet they have a part to play yet.

 

Segin

 

 

I'm pretty sure that the Song is mixed up in a Ter'angreal that Elayne had read way back in one of the books.

 

Oh wait no, that was the Talisman of Growing. Or is it both? Can someone help me out here?

 

the Talisman of Growing was given to the ogier by male channellers in thanks for the refuge of the stedding. it grows an entrance to the ways. and has nought to do with "the song". i dimly remember the Ter your on about though, it was activated by Avi, and is an AoL library of sorts, containing books from that time in audio-descriptive format i hope, as not many can read the old tongue lol.

[Whizbang]

I posted this in one other thread' date=' but I shall post it here too:

 

I haven't seen any discussion about this; I skimmed through the 4 pages of threads and didnt notice anything about it.

 

Olver beat the Snakes and Foxes game. Now, I wonder if this is because:

 

1. They miscounted and thus ended up winning the game

2. Mat beat the tower -> The game mechanics somehow magically changed

3. Olver is full of massive ownage

 

 

I can't come up with any other reasons for that to have happened, but if it's simply because Olver miscounted and ended up winning, then it seems sort of redundant to even write about. He might as well have lost yet another time. Or not have played the game at all.

 

[/quote']

 

At one point Mat was playing Snakes and Foxes with Olver. BUT, Mat refused to touch the dice so that his luck wouldn't interfere with the outcome. This, to me, means that he felt that his luck would somehow allow him to win. So, winning the game is a possibility, even if only a one in a billion chance. I agree that this was just an analog to Mat's win in the tower, but if you need a "reason" he won, other than miscounting, then this would be the one for me.

 

Winning isn't impossible, just very, very, very unlikely.

[FarShainMael]

I had a really weird thought about Snakes & Foxes..

 

How often did Olver play that game, with Mat and others? The one time he wins, by 'coincidence' (yeah, right) someone (Mat) manages to escape from the 'finns. Did every other time he play coincide with someone failing to make it out of finnland..

 

..yeah, I said it was a weird thought

[Callern]

I had a really weird thought about Snakes & Foxes..

 

How often did Olver play that game, with Mat and others? The one time he wins, by 'coincidence' (yeah, right) someone (Mat) manages to escape from the 'finns. Did every other time he play coincide with someone failing to make it out of finnland..

 

..yeah, I said it was a weird thought

 

Then Olver would be a mass murderer

[FarShainMael]

Well, some on this board are calling him a sociopath.. but technically, murder involves knowledge and intention. You have to know that your action will kill and want it to happen.

 

But I said 'does it coincide with', not 'does it cause'; in other words, does the game reflect what is happening in finnland?

[maddface]

Well, some on this board are calling him a sociopath.. but technically, murder involves knowledge and intention. You have to know that your action will kill and want it to happen.

 

But I said 'does it coincide with', not 'does it cause'; in other words, does the game reflect what is happening in finnland?

 

Unless the finns lied when they told Mat in his first encounter that it has been a long time since anyone has visited them or Olver is the only person to play Snakes and Foxes since the last time someone visited the finns, I think that the connection between the game playing and people in the Finnland is not likely.

[blazetheearth]

There's surely more to the Book of Translation than this, but here is what I think.

With Ogier being the songmasters, and the Tinkers looking for the "Song", when the Book of Translation is opened, the Tinkers will find the song. The Tinkers are the Aiel who have held on to the past. I bet they have a part to play yet.

 

Segin

 

 

I'm pretty sure that the Song is mixed up in a Ter'angreal that Elayne had read way back in one of the books.

 

Oh wait no, that was the Talisman of Growing. Or is it both? Can someone help me out here?

 

the Talisman of Growing was given to the ogier by male channellers in thanks for the refuge of the stedding. it grows an entrance to the ways. and has nought to do with "the song". i dimly remember the Ter your on about though, it was activated by Avi, and is an AoL library of sorts, containing books from that time in audio-descriptive format i hope, as not many can read the old tongue lol.

 

Among the items Elayne and Co took from Ebou Dar there were a couple of ter'angreal that fit these descriptions. One was a leaf-shaped ter'angreal that made Avi think of growing, but that it didn't require the OP to activate, only that someone sing the right song near it. This, I took to be a Talisman of Growing that had been lost to the Ogier.

 

There was also a "library statue" which was referred to also as "RJ's Cameo" that Avi channeled into in order to activate, which caused the words 'Fiction' and 'Non-Fiction' to pop up in the air above the statue.

 

2 different ter'angreal.

[OptimusPrime]

Towers of Midnight. Pevaras PoV. Taims hand. That is all.

[juztin_tyme]

Towers of Midnight. Pevaras PoV. Taims hand. That is all.

 

 

Chapter or page number please?

[Callern]

 

But I said 'does it coincide with', not 'does it cause'....

Still, imagine every child playing that game since the day it was made. The game has probably been played multiple times more then the number of people that have visited the finns.

 

And about sociopathy, I don't believe we can tell anything from that one POV. There are many indications from earlier books that Olvers behavior is anything but sociopathic.

[OptimusPrime]

Towers of Midnight. Pevaras PoV. Taims hand. That is all.

 

 

Chapter or page number please?

 

Chapter 53, page 771.

 

Ok I will elaborate. Look at how directly your attention is drawn to it. Then continue reading on to see how Pevara describes Taim. She "knows" who he is, but she describes someone else a lot better. And then think who elses hands are significant.

 

And while we're on it also remember that Egwenes Dream of thirteen midnight towers was a reference to the Chosen and if Taim was a Third Age Chosen there would have been a fourteenth midnight tower in that dream.

[Terez]

Ok I will elaborate. Look at how directly your attention is drawn to it.

Kinda like a red herring?

 

Then continue reading on to see how Pevara describes Taim.

No chin. That's important. ;)