Book 13 - A Rating

[magnutz]

Ok, ladies and gentlemen, I have finished the story - FINALLY! - and here are my thoughts and my rating. (Everything is from my opinion and not to be taken as a generally held opinion - also, you might be offended by my post since I do not like the way Brandon Sanderson writes. I apologize for that in advance but I feel like I have to let some of my disappointment steam out of my system))

 

My thoughts - in general

 

The story really feels like a new story with borrowed content. There are a lot of story lines that get solved/ended - quickly, which is nice.

This is also the first novel in the series which feels like a completely new story/book. Jordan has, in my opinion, really and utterly departed when this story takes its first steps. The layout, the characters, the names, the number of times a character is called by name, the way the story moves "fragmentischly" from one POV to another and then back again. Jordan has left the building. Really.

 

In my opinion the book could have been reduced to 40-50 pages dealing ONLY with Mat & gang going to the frikkin towers of Midnight. The stuff that happens before that - I just flipped through them after a while because it .. was bad. The story itself is fine but the way it is told grates on my nerves. If you can't get around a character's name and you use it 30+ times on three pages... that is just too bad and sloppy writing and I won't waste my time reading it. I, for one, can keep track of the characters in a story without being reminded of what they are called every fourth line.

 

So, since I only accept the last portion of this The Towers of Midnight I give this book a score of 1 on a 1-10 scale. The rest is just scaffolding to support the last scenes and that, my dear fellow readers, is an insult to me as a reader. I'd really like a refund on this book.

 

End note:

 

I know that I'm not being very constructive!! but I can't gather my wits to perform a clinical dissection of the story since it is not to my liking. I will re-read it and see if I can do some constructive cricisism later..

 

Magnutz out.

-----------------------------

Regarding names.

 

Rule of thumb: If you can't frikkin pronunce the name you have come up with what are the chanses of someone actually naming someone Xtchacltarch or something close to it? (I made the example up myself) Stick to names that can be formed by a human mouth. This is only OK when writing about Inka/Maya tribes or aliens from the Weirdname Dimension.

 

Don't over-use the names. If you mention your character in the key sentence of a paragraph please be sure not to use the name of said character again before it is necessary, feel it.

[Kara]

Maybe you read a little too fast...neither Mat nor anyone else actually goes to the "Towers of Midnight"

[magnutz]

Maybe you read a little too fast...neither Mat nor anyone else actually goes to the "Towers of Midnight"

 

;) My bad. They go to the Tower of genji.. ;) Typed a liitle too fast.

[RedVanilla]

I think there were some definite differences between RJ and BS, but I liked the book, and the previous one, and think BS is doing the best he can with the notes. In fact, I think BS actually made Mat even funnier than he already was, and I like that Perrin FINALLY stopped complaining! I know RJ would have done a fantastic job with the story, had he lived, but BS is finishing the story that RJ began for the fans...however much you dislike BS's writing, can you imagine how horrible it would have been had the rest of the story died with RJ?!

[Fel]

While you are totally entitled to your opinion and I'm sorry you hated it, i can't disagree with you more. The only scenes in the book that I did not really like were Matt's scenes at the end in the tower. They were incredibly rushed and obviously were written when jordan was going to cram the entire book into 1 volume come hell or high water. I wish we had about 2x-3x as much of that and less of the political crap (i.e. elayne), but the overall book was fairly strong in the WoT spectrum.

 

A bunch of things were wrapped up, some rushed, some done very well. The plotline moved well. He wrote Rand's transformation into Zen rand fairly well (I have to assume the idea of Zen Rand came from Jordan, not sanderson). Matt's arc was far better than the last book and wrapped up the Gholam question and the Dragons. Perrin's arc was very well done for me and enjoyable to read. Egwene and Elayne...well, let's just say I am not a fan. Avienda's visions were just wonderful. Inturalde's scenes in maradon were terrific.

 

Overall, the book did what it was supposed to do - get us ready for a Memory of Light with the last battle started and everyone prepared.

 

I have no idea what you mean about the grammatical/writing issues of using names over and over again, but it never once occurred to me in the read. The jumping of timelines was annoying until people caught up to each other, but that was a remnant of the split of the books into 3 and I can accept the inelegance there.

[Frostmuse]

Normally, character names are kind of neutral in a text, they fade into the background in the narrative, just like using he and she does. It's usually a good idea to use character names often, since a reader that does lose track of he-said-she-said-then-she-said is a lot more likely to get thrown out of the story than someone re-reading a name for the twentieth time. (and bad writing over-uses phrases like "the raven haired woman said" instead). And the more characters in the scene, the more important it becomes.

[ajfurst]

Rating TOM isn't easy. There's how the book as a stand-alone book stands, and then how it fits into the WOT as a whole.

 

As a stand alone book, there's a mass of continuity and spelling errors that show it should have come out a month later after decent checking and editing. Otherwise I would have enjoyed it, except for:

1) The continued 'info-dumps' instead of accepting the readers don't need everything spelled out like they hadn't read the preceeding 12 books.

2) The re-revelations (Grady informing Perrin about the Cleansing, Aviendha realising the Aiel need to change etc.).

3) Elayne in general. At least no baths this time.

4) Mat's reversion 15 years in his literacy skills.

 

I could live with those, and although they lessened my enjoyment, they didn't wreck it.

 

THAT was wrecked by TOM showing what a monumentally massive stuff up splitting TGS and TOM by plotlines instead of chronologically was. Rand's epiphany at the end of TGS completely wrecked the sense of despair (A MEMORY OF LIGHT!) RJ was obviously working towards in Towers of Midnight. Aviendha's vision, the assumption Moraine was critically vital to return Rand from dark Rand and Mat having to wait to save her, Perrin trapped by Dreamspike, looking like forced to fight the Whitecloaks, the wolves worried no Last Hunt to occur, all should have combined with Egwene being imprisoned and Rand going mega-dark, before his epiphany. One book wasn't practical, but two, with it split after Veins of Gold, but all the stuff in TOM that chronologically takes place before then should have been in TGS. Other then wanting their money as quickly as possible, I can not fathom how Brandon or anyone at Team Jordan could possibly have figured this was the best decision when they had the outline and notes?!?!

 

For the way TGS and TOM have been split I have to give TOM a fail and retrospectively drop my rating for TGS down a few notches. AMOL, at least all timelines (except the Black Tower) are on the same page, so I have better hopes for that.

[moratcorlm]

I thought it was better than TGS largely because it was more clearly Sanderson's work in most areas. While I'm, to say the least, no fan of Sanderson's skill or technique as a prose writer, TOM flowed a lot better than the clumsy integration/imitation of two styles in the previous book.

 

That said, the plot errors are annoying and once the entirety of the AMOL trilogy has been released, I look forward to editing my e-books into a more seamlessly constructed sequence.

[TheAngryDruid]

Let me comment it is odd to be rating a book you admit you did not read.

 

And I have to question how many you did read, because most would have picked up by now that Mat & Co were going to the Tower of Ghenji, which is a gateway to the land of the Finns, where we've all known Moiraine has been since book 5, and NOT the ToM. How did you miss that? Not to mention the ToM are literally in Seanchan via the opening, so that was hard to miss. As was Egwene's dream, in Chapter three, where the ToM are revealed to be the 13 Forsaken.

 

And the story jumping from POV and back and forth is something you just noticed? While the Perrin/Galad chapters may have been the most extreme example, but we've had multiple POV's within chapters many times (Battle outside Cairhien, the Cleansing, etc).

 

While I was not a huge fan of ToM, I DID read it. And it was far superior to say, CoT, which you might have realized had you actually bothered to read it.

[magnutz]

Let me comment it is odd to be rating a book you admit you did not read.

 

And I have to question how many you did read, because most would have picked up by now that Mat & Co were going to the Tower of Ghenji, which is a gateway to the land of the Finns, where we've all known Moiraine has been since book 5, and NOT the ToM. How did you miss that? Not to mention the ToM are literally in Seanchan via the opening, so that was hard to miss. As was Egwene's dream, in Chapter three, where the ToM are revealed to be the 13 Forsaken.

 

And the story jumping from POV and back and forth is something you just noticed? While the Perrin/Galad chapters may have been the most extreme example, but we've had multiple POV's within chapters many times (Battle outside Cairhien, the Cleansing, etc).

 

While I was not a huge fan of ToM, I DID read it. And it was far superior to say, CoT, which you might have realized had you actually bothered to read it.

 

Dude, I have read the first 11 books multiple times since 1995 so - Hush.

 

I have also read Towers of Midnight and it sucks. The story that lies behind the writing is great but the actual writing is crap. So, there, I've said it. I really dislike Mr Brandon Sanderson's way of writing. He feels awkward and does things that I thought a published author didn't do.

 

Some parts are better than others but, those I guess RJ had a hand in writing. The Rand-parts are quite nice and also parts of the last section where Mat & Gang goes to play with the Finns and Aelfinns (spelling?!) - it does feel a smidge easy though. The "You will lose half the light of the world" and whoop, one of the creepy things pulls one of Mat's eyes out... Then jain Farstrider/Noel/santa? saved the day by doing a frikkin Ingtar-sacrifice-.. Like when the Gods of Ancient Greek dramas take part and solve the problem by stomping somebody out of existance - Too easy.

 

No, no, no, this was a let down. I will read it one more time and perhaps I will realize that I read the book while being in a foul mood the first time. Maybe.

 

Rating remains 1 out of 10. For now. I am not pleased.

[Elend]

The eye has been foreshadowed since the first book, IIRC, so complaining about it seems a bit weak.

 

But I tend to agree. The writing in this particular book seemed extremely rough. I've read other works by BS and its not nearly been as difficult to get through; I blame the speed the book has to be produced.

 

ZenRand and the Borderland scenes were most definitely the strongest of the book, along with Mat's in the ToG.

 

The politics are what got on my nerves the most. This book is not something you read after you've just finished Game of Thrones for a second time and are starting on A Clash of Kings again. WoT's politics have never been the best developed (though more so than most other fantasy I've read) but I felt like it all took another step down in this book. Which is strange because Brandon is capable of it, at least to an extent. WoK somewhat showed this.

 

However, the epic OMG moments that WoT is so famous for and always will live near my heart... he got those. They worked for me by and large.

 

The skipping back and forth on PoVs isn't exactly unusual for published works and I've encountered it before. If I'm honest I found that somewhat refreshing and enjoyable.

 

Highlights-

 

Aviendha and the columns. Loved it and the fact that its caused so much argument is interesting.

 

Mat. Need I say more?

 

Ituralde. Most awesome minor character chapter sequence I've ever seen in WoT. I might need to go back and read it, stand-alone, again.

 

Rand. ZenRand was perfectly shown, particularly the hiding of his point of view from us.

 

I kinda feel like this stuff was so awesome I'm willing to overlook the obvious need of another month or five of revision and just embrace it as a WoT fan.

 

So as a WoT fan I give it a 9/10 for the awesomeness that happened.

 

My inner writer is inclined towards the less charitable 5/10, keeping in mind that's its a lot better than a lot of crap out there but had obvious flaws.

 

Overall, 7/10.

 

My Sanderson book of the year? The Way of Kings.

[AutomatedTeller]

Funny - the only thing about this book I didn't much like was a lot of the Perrin stuff - I thought it advanced too slowly.

 

Everything else was great.

[T00thbrush]

The only scenes in the book that I did not really like were Matt's scenes at the end in the tower. They were incredibly rushed and obviously were written when jordan was going to cram the entire book into 1 volume come hell or high water.

 

I could not agree more. I waited for Mat to go into that bloody Tower for most of the book, and as I could see I was getting closer and closer to the end, I started thinking we had been tricked and the rescue would actually take place in the next book. I thought "no way can he go in that tower and rescue Moiraine in so few pages". But he did. It was quite disappointing to have waited that long (since TFoH!) for an event and have it suddenly solved in a few quick chapters stuck at the end of the volume, as if on an afterthought. Yes, Noal/Jain did have to sacrifice himself, but apart from that the rescue seemed incredibly easy, maybe also a little cheesy.

 

I thought they would spend most of the book in the Tower, and I expected to read more about their hardships in there - being lost, fighting, etc. I didn't feel it.

[Mr Ares]

I really dislike Mr Brandon Sanderson's way of writing.

I have some criticisms of his writing abilities as well. I was given a copy of Elantris for Christmas, and found the prose to be utterly unreadable, and showed no real grasp of the English language. Just terrible. And I don't consider the fact my edition was written in German to be an adequate defence. But one out of ten for Towers of Midnight? Seriously? I know it's not exactly War and Peace, but that's rather harsh.

[Razor]

the rescue seemed incredibly easy, maybe also a little cheesy.

 

FWIW RJ wrote TOG.

 

I loved the book. There are so many awesome scenes...

 

Apples/Zen Rand

 

Perin and the Hammer

 

Borderland fighting

 

Lan

 

Avienda

 

Gawain vs bloodknives

 

Egwene vs Messana

 

etc

[akira.taylor]

THAT was wrecked by TOM showing what a monumentally massive stuff up splitting TGS and TOM by plotlines instead of chronologically was. Rand's epiphany at the end of TGS completely wrecked the sense of despair (A MEMORY OF LIGHT!) RJ was obviously working towards in Towers of Midnight. Aviendha's vision, the assumption Moraine was critically vital to return Rand from dark Rand and Mat having to wait to save her, Perrin trapped by Dreamspike, looking like forced to fight the Whitecloaks, the wolves worried no Last Hunt to occur, all should have combined with Egwene being imprisoned and Rand going mega-dark, before his epiphany. One book wasn't practical, but two, with it split after Veins of Gold, but all the stuff in TOM that chronologically takes place before then should have been in TGS. Other then wanting their money as quickly as possible, I can not fathom how Brandon or anyone at Team Jordan could possibly have figured this was the best decision when they had the outline and notes?!?!

 

So, if you put everything in The Gathering Storm and Towers of Midnight into The Gathering Storm, how long would the book be? If you split it at an earlier point (before Veins of Gold), what would the climax of the book be? I presume those two points are what determined the split. Now, while I enjoyed the book for the most part, it could have used some more editing, and it would really have helped to organize it chronologically (the switching points of view wasn't an issue, the fact that the chronology was messed up was). I would note that this wasn't the first time that a Wheel of Time book was split by plot line (I don't really recall how the chronology was handled).

[moratcorlm]

So, if you put everything in The Gathering Storm and Towers of Midnight into The Gathering Storm, how long would the book be? If you split it at an earlier point (before Veins of Gold), what would the climax of the book be?

It wouldn't be the first time a WOT book had no particular climax. And Sanderson himself recognized that at least one of the books would not contain one, though he made it TOM. That was for publishing reasons, and understandably; with a new author, the fanbase might revolt if another "COT-like" book was the first thing to be delivered. But in terms of the overall structure of the story, it would've been far better handled if TGS were the set-up book and TOM began the conclusion for AMOL.

 

As for where the split would be, probably just beforehand. It would require more thought to pull it off well; I'll try to work on a reorganization schema sometime, but off the top of my head you could leave it on a cliffhanger with a quick succession of chapters with Rand balefiring Natrin's Barrow, Tuon sending the strike on Tar Valon, perhaps Aviendha's vision, Perrin's agreement to fight Galad, the jailbreak in Caemlyn, and then finally Egwene being released from prison to hear "I am, after all, of the Black Ajah."

I would note that this wasn't the first time that a Wheel of Time book was split by plot line (I don't really recall how the chronology was handled).

Take a look.

[RedVanilla]

I think Brandon is doing a great job, and I can't wait for the final book!

[GB]

i thought the book was a good one, and I think its among my top in the series.

[RahulSingh]

The story was GREAT!!! As a WOT Fan that was enough to make me happy with the book.

 

I hope AMoL is better :D

[akira.taylor]

So, if you put everything in The Gathering Storm and Towers of Midnight into The Gathering Storm, how long would the book be? If you split it at an earlier point (before Veins of Gold), what would the climax of the book be?

It wouldn't be the first time a WOT book had no particular climax. And Sanderson himself recognized that at least one of the books would not contain one, though he made it TOM. That was for publishing reasons, and understandably; with a new author, the fanbase might revolt if another "COT-like" book was the first thing to be delivered. But in terms of the overall structure of the story, it would've been far better handled if TGS were the set-up book and TOM began the conclusion for AMOL.

 

As for where the split would be, probably just beforehand. It would require more thought to pull it off well; I'll try to work on a reorganization schema sometime, but off the top of my head you could leave it on a cliffhanger with a quick succession of chapters with Rand balefiring Natrin's Barrow, Tuon sending the strike on Tar Valon, perhaps Aviendha's vision, Perrin's agreement to fight Galad, the jailbreak in Caemlyn, and then finally Egwene being released from prison to hear "I am, after all, of the Black Ajah."

 

Okay, I can see how that could work. I agree that the fan base would probably revolt if they had done that, though.

I have for a while felt that the ideal way to write the Wheel of Time (given the currently planned length and amount of material) would have been 13 books (nicely symbolic, don't you think?). This of course would have required things to be planned differently at the beginning, which is a reminder of the ideal method (from a literary perspective, ignoring such petty details as "the author needs to eat") for writing series (write the whole thing, then publish it). (This also means that when you go "oops, that should have been handled differently, because I see here six books later that it was wrong" or "ah, I want to change this," you can still change it.)

 

I would note that this wasn't the first time that a Wheel of Time book was split by plot line (I don't really recall how the chronology was handled).

Take a look.

 

Yeah, I actually had looked at that, but it looked to complicated to reference. In retrospect I should have referenced it anyway. I wish he would update for Towers of Midnight, but I guess he has a real life (which for some reason he prioritizes, can't imagine why ^_^).

[Vambram]

I give Towers of Midnight a rating of 9 of 10.

 

The chronology of the book is the only really negative criticism I have for ToM.

[Suttree]

Instead of giving the book a rating, I'm going to rank all thirteen in order of my favorite. While I enjoyed the overall ToM story I have issues with BS's writing similar to what others have noted. The prose at times is just awful and his characterization of Mat(see 7 Striped Lass)is cringeworthy. I have come to realize he has no idea how to write that cool rogue type. Rushing the books through the editing process hasn't helped him at all. I am very thankful BS is stepping up to finish AMoL, this is just how I see things in relation the series as a whole.

 

1. The Shadow Rising

2. Lord of Chaos

3. The Dragon Reborn

4. The Great Hunt

5. Eye of the World

6. The Fires Of Heaven

7. Knife of Dreams

8. Winters Heart

9. A Crown of Swords

10. The Path of Daggers

11. Towers of Midnight

12 The Gathering Storm

13. Crossroads of Twilight

 

Thanks for that Elmandarb!

[bysomy]

Where's The Dragon Reborn?

Mine would go

 

1The Dragon Reborn

2The shadow rising

3The great hunt

4Lord of Chaos

5Fires of Heaven

6The gathering storm

7Eye of the World

8Knife of dreams

9Towers of Midnight

10A crown of swords

11path of daggers

12winters heart

13crossroads of twilight

[ajfurst]

Rating the books - always fun :)

 

Within 1 - 13 I'd group as to how good they are - both as books in themselves and within the WOT.

 

Brilliant

The Shadow Rising

 

Excellent

The Great Hunt

The Eye of the World

The Dragon Reborn

 

Very Good (drop down due Elayne and Nynaeve circus antics and never ending quest for the throne)

Lord of Chaos

Knife of Dreams

The Fires of Heaven

 

Good (too much was re-hashing the end of LOC, the start of the slowing of the series)

A Crown of Swords

 

Average (too little happens)

The Path of Daggers

The Gathering Storm (due to the TGS/TOM chronology issues, otherwise would be in the very good group)

Winters Heart

 

Poor

Towers of Midnight (due to the TGS/TOM chronology issues and woeful lack of editing, otherwise would be in the good group)

 

Lets just pretend it was never written (The prologue and Egwene captured at the very end aside - skip the rest and you lose nothing from understanding the story as a whole)

Crossroads of Twilight