Rand's Newfound Ability/Power

[jemron]

I love the new Rand, but a BIG question I have is WTH is this newfound ability that Rand seems to have? Is it the True Power? Is Rand somehow more powerful in the One Power? Is this a new third, undefined "divine power?" (I call that the DP). Or is it something else?

 

First, the True Power:

 

I don't believe that this newfound Power/Ability/Awesomeness/Whatever it is, is the True Power. Not after how Rand was described in the book. Let's examine (based on what I can remember) why I think it is NOT the TP:

 

1. He seemed to somehow burn out the eyes of Darkfriends or cause them to shy away from his presence. Would the True Power have that seemingly "good" effect?
   
2. He was described as being a being of Light (again, doesn't seem like the TP would do this... the TP seemed to give him a dark aura in TGS, not a Light one- After Rand's epiphany in VoG, his aura is better).
   
3. He seemed to be able to see into others' souls. This is not definitive, but it seems like a "good" attribute, not a bad one (which I assume wouldn't come from the TP).
   
4. He was healing/fixing things around him (food, trees, sky, etc...). Isn't the TP only a destructive force? How could it fix apple trees or make the Pattern right?
   
5. His "insanity" was described as being held at bay by Light. Again, would the TP do that?
   

What arguments say that it is the TP?

 

1. Actually, Rand's seems to have been "healed" of his insanity. The fact that Nynaeve sees his insanity being "held off" by Light could possibly be because Rand may have received the same healing that Ishamael gave to Lews Therin (by way of the TP) back in the prologue of tEotW. This may be used as a valid argument to say that his "healing" or temporary "fix" against the insanity is TP caused. But would it create some sort of "Light barrier"? I'm not convinced that it is TP healing there, but I've been wrong before.
   
2. On that same note, could his link to Moridin/TP/DO be holding off his insanity because maybe now Rand has those black bars surrounding him (the same ones that protected Male Forsaken from the taint)? Would that "protection" from the DO actually give the sense of Light saving him from the insanity?
   
3. Rand is very confident even while being shielded by the Aes Sedai in the Tower, and later, while confronting the Borderlanders with 13 Aes Sedai in Far Madding (with the Guardian preventing OP channeling). Why would he be so confident unless he knew that he had access to the TP? Or some other Divine Power (DP)?
   

 

Second, bigger/better One Power:

 

Could this "newfound" power/ability just be increased One Power strength/ability? Rand seemed to almost be a living sa'angreal (maybe a result of destroying the CK by channeling back into it). Is it possible Rand somehow absorbed that Power into himself and became a living CK? Or, did Rand somehow tap into a better, more "pure" form of the OP (more on this below)?

 

Also, it seems as if Rand's DNA/genetics were effected by VoG, giving him a stronger OP ability. Remember his children (through Aviendha's visions of the future) were somehow so in-tune with the OP that it seemed to come as naturally to them as breathing to others.

 

If I remember correctly, an Asha'man or two witnessed Rand when he destroyed all of those Trollocs and he seemed to be sure that Rand was channeling the OP, not something else, right?

 

Third, a New Power (NP) or, as I call it, Divine Power (DP):

 

In general, I believe the OP would give this sense of Light (the aura, the surrounding protection from insanity, the burning of DF eyes, the brilliant Light that is seen as he destroys trollocs, etc.); however, this could also be attributed to something else that Rand may have tapped into (a counter to the TP) up on Dragonmount in VoG. This is out there, but could the Creator have some better Power, that is even better than the OP? Could Rand have access to that?

 

It seems a bit late in the game to bring in a whole new Power, but not completely impossible. We know so little of the Creator. We know the OP is neutral (not good or evil) and that it can be used to create and destroy. AFAIK, the TP is only destructive, right? Could there be a counter to that that the Creator uses which is only for good/creation? I seem to remember RJ describing the TP as just a corrupted form of the OP. Could this new DP be a "purified" form of the OP? This could be a topic all on its own. Discuss.

 

Fourth, something else:

 

Maybe the problem here is that I'm assuming Rand's newfound confidence, or his ability to see into people's souls, or his ability to fix what is wrong comes from either the OP or the TP. Maybe this is nothing more than him being "one" with the Pattern and his Ta'veren-ness finally. Maybe Rand always could've tapped into this zen-like powerful state, but because he fought the Pattern, he couldn't. Maybe influences of the DO (like the TP and the taint) were preventing him from reaching this newfound Ta'veren oneness. So many maybes.

 

I think it is very possible that Rand is just the same old OP wielding guy, but the Pattern is now totally on his side when he needs it and he's free of evil influences (does anybody know if his wounds have been healed?). He is confident now that he'll make it to the Last Battle to fight the DO, so he's not worried about being captured by Aes Sedai or Borderlanders. Maybe, because he's at this higher level of understanding, he also has newfound power/abilities?

 

Whew, that was long. I hope this is as interesting to discuss to ya'll as it is to me. This, to me, is the coolest part of what we learned from ToM. I predict we'll see the Creator before the end of all this. Crazy theory (if the above wasn't enough): What if Rand really is the Creator incarnate? Chills guys. Chills.

[Hadilmir]

It's option 4.

 

Done.

[jemron]

It's option 4.

 

Done.

 

Nice. Reasons? I was hoping for a discussion.

[maradon]

we saw that Moridin has a link to the DO through Graendals POV (although it wasnt proved), perhaps this is a similar thing.

[Elend]

Personally, I prefer the Light to Divine Power. But that's just me.

[RedVanilla]

It makes sense that if the Dark One has True Power, then the Creator should have the opposite, Divine Power. If he could use one, then why not both? Perhaps Saidar and Saidin are simply the power embtween both. I think he's using both DP and OP.

[moratcorlm]

The things he does which cannot be explained by the One Power must be explained otherwise. I don't know if the reaction Darkfriends now have to his presence is granted by the Creator or the Wheel; either way, this is not just an extended ta'veren attribute but something unique to the Dragon. The True Power is a most unlikely explanation.

 

That needs to be separated from what he does at Maradon, which is at least partly of the One Power and which, except for the blinding Light seen by the Torkumens, might not be beyond what Lews Therin Telamon was capable of doing: he's the most powerful channeler ever and now remembers his full training in how to use it.

[haloun]

i agree that it is number four, and for the discussion, i believe it to be his T'A'R link, perrin sees him in T'A'R, about the same time that rand starts exhibiting the "warp" in the air, the warp continues, the warp was originally very strong, and there was a storm in T'A'R, that blocked out the sun, now there is no storm, and the warp is extremely light. rands darkness effected the land whenever and he was having dark thoughts, it was worse. now that he is light rand, with light warp, we see things happening in the real world around him that could be described as mirror images of T'A'R, the grain on the boats, and the apple trees, and when the warp officially started rand had just defeated the domination band, he used the TP to do it (or did he?), but it may have just been his belief that he needed to channel something else, and that the domination band wouldnt stop him from channeling. these are some of my arguments for a T'A'R link/conection.

[meeker]

One thing that I have thought about was a comment by Ituralde after the battle at Maradon.

 

"It was as if al'Thor's attacks had somehow affected only the Shadowspawn." pg 503

 

 

We know from his borderland test that Lews Therrin was not this precise. Does this mean that he has finally remembered what he did in Tear when he made the weave that singled out Shadowspawn? Or is he is simply that overwhelmingly amazing at everything now?

[jmikea]

I believe that now that he made his fateful choice on Dragonmount and picked correctly, he's being sheltered by the hand of the Creator. Call it Divine Power or whatever you like. He went through his temptation period and came out stronger, and now the Creator has claimed what is his. Lots of Jesus parallels there, I suppose.

[Hadilmir]

There are really three major sides to this eternal struggle.

 

Creation (The Creator)

Existence (Humanity, the Wheel, the Pattern, the One Power)

Destruction (The Dark One)

[Corruption (Shadar Logoth Effect)]?

 

Both Creation and Destruction only happen once, they are singularities, one that happened at the beginning of eternity and the other to define eternity's end. Destruction can't destroy Creation because they are mutually inclusive, as two singularities that can't be defined without the other. It can, however, mark an end to the continuation defined by a beginning point and an end point. That continuation is Existence, which is defined by the refusal of Creation to give into Destruction, in other words, everything that was created is fighting against its end.

 

Here's a diagram of the completed cycle-

 

(--------------------...----------------------------)

 

 

( = Creation

- = Existence

) = Destruction

 

Destruction will never affect Creation, they cannot be in conflict. It is Existence that Destruction will end, but no one knows when, hence the ellipsis representing however long Existence lasts. It may be that Existence is eternal even though it is defined by its own ending, but that's irrelevant.

 

By drilling the Bore, Mierin allowed Destruction to stop being a singularity and directly affect Existence as a continuation. Now Existence and Destruction are at war.

 

 

 

 

*Shortened version: It isn't the Creator versus the Dark One, it is all of existence versus the Dark One.

[jemron]

Good stuff. I think if the Creator uses his/her/its own sort of Power, that it is a more purified form of the OP, since we know the TP is a corrupted form of the OP.

 

Interesting to bring up the fact that maybe Rand didn't ever touch the TP, and both Lews Therin and Semi were just confused or they both misunderstood what was happening. I think he did touch the TP, and maybe that is what later gave him access to the NP (New Power, since I realized "Divine Power" does sound too God-like)?

 

I also really like the idea that it is a separate power from T'A'R. We know there are 3 "constants" in the world of the Wheel of time (according to Verin). The Creator, the DO, and T'A'R.

 

Maybe this NP is just as simple as his being "one with the land and the land one with the Dragon." It also feels to me like what Rand had (a purified form of the OP) that he got from the Eye of the World.

 

Remember, the only time when he seemed to contact the Creator (or possibly the DO) was at the Eye.

 

Good discussion. I also like what was brought up about all existence vs. DO. Surely he will win in one existence some day??

 

 

So, does Rand have access to a New Power? Does he have access to the TP? Or, does he STILL have access to the TP (assuming he ever did)? What is it about T'A'R that we're not understanding? How is it linked to Rand and his link with the land?

[Erunion]

Rand and what he does seems to be reflected in Tel'Aran'Rhiod. Is it possible that he, being the dragon, is now capable of controlling the real world, much as a dreamer controls Tel'Aran'Rhiod? Crazy theory, and even if it's true he is likely far more limited than a dreamer would be, but still.

Very, very interesting thought.

[doomsgate]

i dont think its anything other than the true source. he is just using saidin to its fullest potential. remember padra's pov

saying only the children of the dragon fully understood the true source. so to rand saidin is a part of him now so he can instinctively use it better than any other male channeler. he isnt more powerful he's just using it better more elegant.

[Lacanos]

Pretty sure we know he was channeling the power at Maradon from the comments of that asha'man.

It's likely a combination of incredible dexterity at channeling the power and skill from his knowledge of previous life.

Added to that, the anti-Darkfriend thing is probably some gift he has as the Dragon Reborn, quite possibly based upon his ta'veren-ness, but certainly not due to direct divine intervention.

[Express]

I would like to throw this out there, Why wouldn't the 'Creator' be able to use the TP? The Creator is ALL powerful. Yes the TP is the Dark One but that had to be created too.

 

Rand is the Creator's champion, why wouldn't he also have the same characteristics as the Creator? Hence, walking by the apple trees and correcting the corrupted pattern that caused the first season of apple's to rot, walking in to see Egwene and getting her to let him go but also NO other Aes Sadai was able to talk and we know one of them would've said something and at Maradon(from 'meeker') "It was as if al'Thor's attacks had somehow affected only the Shadowspawn." Rand has 'a power' that negates the TP. I don't think it's 'new' as he used it with Callandor in Tear. The One Power and the True power cannot exist in the same place at the same time and Rand can use both though I doubt he ever uses the TP again. I know this is a off topic but maybe the One Power is the buffer that keeps the DO and his power away from the Wheel?

 

I think that Rand is a combination of #2, One Power, and #4, one with the pattern with a twist. He has always been able to use the One Power and the twist is that he can correct the pattern, maybe even control it! I don't think that Rand will become the Creator.

[Raap]

Odd thing though, as Rand was destroying the Trollock army, that 'light' thing which burned darkfriends definitely intensified greatly, working at a much greater distance. In the earlier parts of the book it only had a strong effect when he came very close to the darkfriend.

 

That would hint that there's at least some connection between whatever power he was using and that ability of his to find and hurt darkfriends.

[moratcorlm]

The Creator is ALL powerful. Yes the TP is the Dark One but that had to be created too.

Source? This would seem to contradict you:

I envision the Dark One as being the dark counterpart, the dark balance if you will, to the Creator carrying on the theme, the yin yang, light dark, necessity of balance theme that has run through the books . . . it's somewhat Manichean I know, but I think it works.

Rand is the Creator's champion, why wouldn't he also have the same characteristics as the Creator?

Why would he? And is there actual proof he's the Creator's champion and not simply the Wheel's?

[Erunion]

I like your thoughts Express, but Moratcorlm is right.

 

@Raap;

Good point. When I first read that passage, I thought something was odd because of that, that Rand had a new power. I guess we'll just have to RAFO.

[Crashy]

I'm almost finished with TOM now so I will address a couple of points as I see them.

 

1.He seemed to somehow burn out the eyes of Darkfriends or cause them to shy away from his presence.

 

This from the book.

 

Lord Torkumen's eyes were gone. He appeared to have put them out with a writing quill; the bloodied implement lay on the ground beside him.

 

 

As for his words in Far Madding when he talked about balefire:

If he had gone to them the first time, before he "repaired himself" and became one, then he would have still been dark Rand who was under heavy influence of the shadow and taint with access to the True Power.

After the incident at Dragonmount I do not believe he would have or want access to the True power anymore.

 

 

In Eye of the world, Rand had a dream where Thom said "The Dragon is one with the land and the land is one with the Dragon".

In order to become the Dragon, he needed to fully understand and accept what he is and why, which he never did until he went to Dragonmount.

[jemron]

I'm almost finished with TOM now so I will address a couple of points as I see them.

 

1.He seemed to somehow burn out the eyes of Darkfriends or cause them to shy away from his presence.

 

This from the book.

 

Lord Torkumen's eyes were gone. He appeared to have put them out with a writing quill; the bloodied implement lay on the ground beside him.

 

 

 

That's right. Still, why did Lord Torkumen "put out" his own eyes? Because it was too bright or something, right? So, I stand corrected, Rand doesn't necessarily have the ability to burn out a DF's eyes, but for whatever reason, this newfound power/zen-ness DOES make him seem bright or made of Light by DF's. I get the feeling just Rand's current state/presence is enough to make DF's and Chosen tremble. But WHY?

[Raap]

But will it work on the Forsaken?

 

I think not.

[babuada]

But will it work on the Forsaken?

 

I think not.

I think we saw it working against Forsaken already once. What Rand is channeling currently is Light, i.e. essence of One Power. Only once we saw him channeling this, in TEoTW. And Aginor got burned to ash.

[babuada]

I think none of the abilities we see in Rand is new. He is somehow channelling Light (the essence of One Power). He did that once in TEoTW. I also think his channeling at Maradon reminds exactly of Tarwin's Gap fight. Somehow he got access to a well like the Eye. All effects he is showing now was already there in LTT. We know LTT was called Lord of the Morning, my guess is because he brought sunlight. And he played part in seed singing crop growing, etc. So, growing apples is nothing new to him. Most of all he was loved by people. I can easily see people loving him if he brought this kind of effect.

[rand4747]

I think none of the abilities we see in Rand is new. He is somehow channelling Light (the essence of One Power). He did that once in TEoTW. I also think his channeling at Maradon reminds exactly of Tarwin's Gap fight. Somehow he got access to a well like the Eye. All effects he is showing now was already there in LTT. We know LTT was called Lord of the Morning, my guess is because he brought sunlight. And he played part in seed singing crop growing, etc. So, growing apples is nothing new to him. Most of all he was loved by people. I can easily see people loving him if he brought this kind of effect.

 

He was as destructive as he was at tarwins gap, something he had never repeated elsewhere. Maybe at that time he was integrated and after that he split himself.