Discuss The Seanchan/Fortuona

[Erunion]

@Diederichos:

 

Da'covale are chattel slaves. There are some lucky Da'covale that are the "Hereditary upper servants of the Blood", and others who are chosen as Deathwatch guard/etc, but they are the minority. Most da'covale are basic slave labour, owned and operated by other people. Take for example the cupbearers, who run around half-naked and are beaten if they aren't properly submissive! Criminals aren't the only da'covale treated poorly, rather da'covale are all criminals, debtors or their descendants. The entire practice is morally corrupt, and downright evil. While I do not believe that Hereditary nobility is that great an idea either, at least there is some reason for it, as the nobles are basically major landowners with their children being the heir to that land. The fact that they are rulers as well as wealth landowners is messed up, but at least it's wealth and power that is inherited, rather than a criminal sentence.

A society where commoners are treated somewhat fairly, if moderately oppressed, where convicted criminals and rebels do hard labour for the rest of their lives and where there is a huge gap in power between the classes is understandable. Harsh, but still livable. However, Seanchan is a society where children are enslaved because their parents were slaves, where people who manifest certain genetic characteristics are treated as animals and kept chained, or outright murdered if they are male. This is a society that must be changed.

[Exy]

People need to stop using so'jhin as justification for their love of Seanchan society. Most da'covale are not so'jhin -- it's clear that so'jhin are a tiny minority.

[Jeangray]

 

Oh, so it's fair game to condemn an entire nation to being treated no different than an animal because of one screwed up ruler's actions? Who's whitewashing now?

 

Nobody. I don't like the Aiel xenophobia either, but it isn't something that they do habitually or even to Cahirienin that stay away from the Waste.

 

No, I disagree, the only chattel slavery we have seen from t he SEanchan is for condemned criminals, Suroth, the other type of da'covale are in functionary/soldier position.

 

Where do you get this from? All those cupbearers et al. in sheer white clothing are chattel. There are also property who have to do menial labor back in Seanchan - Karede's parents were weavers, for instance. Seanchan just didn't have any reason to bring such property along - after all, they expected to catch plenty fresh ones in Randland proper.

Suroth also had her property beaten when she was in a bad mood. I know that she was a DF, but it occasioned no comment, as it is a right that all Blood have towards their property. Egeanin made use of it too, IIRC.

 

look at how Beslan reacts to it,

 

Beslan seems to be wildly out of character in the last 2 books. I wonder if Graendal got to him. Also, I imagine that if the Kin aka Wise Women had remained in Ebu Dar and had been collared, the Seanchan would have had a rebellion on their hands.

Actually, now that I think about it - the SAS have recruited heavily in Altara, then the Kin have decamped and kept coming back via inverted gateways in secret to rescue the rest of their numbers from Seanchan-occupied territories. So, how many inhabitants of Altara could the Seanchan have possible collared? Very few, IMHO. And maybe that's one of the reasons why the Altarans have accepted them relatively easily.

 

From a 21st century perspective, it's horrifying thing, from a regular WoTlander perspective, not so much.

 

IIRC, all the POVed characters except for Whitecloaks were horrified. Also, those poor people at the Toman head did try to protest and were burned alive. Generally, the channelers are pretty rare, sparkers even more so. Unless they are prominent personalities, you wouldn't expect all that many people to risk everything to defend them, particularly when the world is going to hell in a handbasket anyway, like it was in Tarabon, for instance. Even so, there was a sizeable number of Taraboners who fought against Seanchan with Ituralde.

[Goramier]

At first blush, based on my dislike of the Seanchan people, I would say that they will be put in line somehow. That they will become quelled somehow and will just be a great help or simply defeated to cause no future problems. That would be what I would like. They are a power hungry, "we think we are all that," slave holders who are out of touch with reality in more then one way. Because of that, I would like to see them defeated or put in place.

 

I don't think so though. I suspect that the viewing Avi had was meant for a reason. I suspect that reason was to give us a heads up on a possible future where the Seanchan essentially go back to reclaiming Randland. In her viewing, the Seanchan had already started taking over the lands before the Aiel essentially went to war with them. I suspect that should we not hear any definative answer, then one can easily expect the peace, post-war, to only last until the Seanchan and their might start taking over. They may wait until Fortuana is gone but evenutally they will. It is kind of a bleak way to see it. That after its all said and done, a day will come where the Seanchan have essentially taken control of all of Randland.

 

However it has happened before. Hawkwing had done it before and these are his people, or at least are under his name. So it isn't as if there is no precedent for it. Also, based on the complexity of the books, one can hardly expect it to be happily-ever-after, post war. Based on the people and the characters it is realistic to expect people to start gunning for power right after the light wins, should they win. The Seanchan are a very powerful force that would be much farther along, much closer to realizing their ambitions if not for powerful people like Rand having stepped in. It is more realistic to expect they would ultimately end up with supreme rule over say, them just sitting back idly, honoring some pact of peace.

 

Who knows. Perhaps the future books with Matt would have evolved this part of the story further. Perhaps things will happen or change that will make this outcome less reasonable but in the end, where we stand. I consider the Seanchan to be the ultimate rulers of Randland post-war.

[Tom Sawyer]

I think that in the next book, Rand's going to have to face a choice. Either he accepts the Seanchan as the lesser of two evils against the Shadow and makes a strategic decision to not worry about the damane issue and just bows to Tuon in order to get her to send her armies up to the Last Battle, which leads to the dystopian future which Avi saw or he'll realize that he doesn't just want to win the Last Battle, but leave behind a world worth living in, which means taking the time to bind Tuon to his service and break the damane's chains, despite how that means that they'll be less effective against the Trolloc hordes.

 

He's probably leaning towards the former now, because he simply doesn't have the time to deal with the Seanchan, but then Avi's going to convince him to leave a world worth living in and deal with the Seanchan before the Last Battle.

[f3llyn]

Well if the Seanchan attack the WT someone is going to have to deal with them. Rand needs the Aes Sedai so he won't be able to leave it alone if that happens.

[Viperswhip]

People who enter any country illegally in our modern world are subject to detention and may even be returned to a country that is suffering civil unrest or outright rebellion. The Waste belonged to the Aeil, there is no disputing that, it was their country and the policy for entering it was apparently well known to wetlanders. Entering the Waste without permission was the equivalent of trying to mule drugs through Thailand or something. You are going to a scummy prison for the rest of your life.

 

Now, I think drugs should be legal and I've never even smoked a freaking cigarette, I am thinking about it from an economic perspective but maybe you get my point. The Aiel don't keep slaves themselves, but ya, they did sell people into slavery, but they don't have prisons in the Waste. It was a strong deterrent that some people obviously thought they could avoid.

 

The Seanchan contain all sorts of evil behaviour...

 

1) Slavery of all sorts, for criminals and apparently anyone not willing to voice their oaths, how did Domon go from owning 10 ships to being a slave? I will have to read that again.

 

2) Stupid rules about meeting nobles' eyes and apparently having to practically lay on the floor anytime one came anywhere near you.

 

3) Dueling like behaviour over insults, even to common soldiers and the like, look how hard Musenge had to restrain himself during the search for Tuon.

 

4) Seekers are the equivalent of Questioners (super evil) and have major power throughout the Seanchan civilization; they aren't simply restrained to one screwed up country and organization.

 

5) The damane are not just slavery, they are a complete destruction of all humanity; reducing teenage girls, in their own country, and any age channeler over here to no more than talking dogs they use to wage war. Just think of how some of the Seanchan think of how useless the Aes Sedai are because they can't be made into weapons...ummm, isn't that why you started chaining the women up in the first place, because they could use their power to rule? Meanwhile they take Windfinders, who previously only helped their ships get around, and Kin, who were just healers, and turn them into weapons of war. It's worse than stripping away humanity, it's a complete betrayal of everything these women stood for in their former lives.

 

I don't like absolute monarchies at all, read Robin Hood or some real history to see how bad the common folk could be mistreated whenever it struck the fancy of a noble. I am not saying they are good, only that they are better, by quite a long ways, than the Seanchan. You could rebel against the High Lords of Tear, they wouldn't use the power to blow you to pieces. Look in Avi's vision to the miners that are too scared to trade with an Aeil because it might piss off the Raven Empire, doesn't sound like the Seanchan get any better over time.

 

The Seanchan may have started chaining women up who tried to use their power to rule, but it should have been a bucket of fresh water to the face when they came to the Randland and not a single country was ruled by a One Power user. The Wise Ones kind of jointly rule with the Chiefs, though in RJ's universe the women are nagging harridans (except Min), so get whatever they want; the Windfinders are very respected but subject to the Captains and maybe the trading guy on the ship. The Seanchan would only have history as a guide to Aes Sedai, but they didn't even pause in trying to chain them up. It's xenophobic idiocy, and the Tinkers only have a good life there because they live the Way of the Leaf and the Seanchan scare anybody too much to be a criminal. Let's see, would you steal a loaf of bread if the punishment for being caught was a life of enslavement? I don't think so.

 

Oh, and to be clear, both my Mother and myself think the Seanchan are worse than the Shadow. Shaitan just wants to kill you and destroy the pattern. Big Whoop, you are dead; it's better than being treated like a dog for the rest of your life (and ya, I don't own any pets).

[Crael123]

What I am most afraid of is that Aviendha will turn out to be some sort of a parallel to Cassandra... Seeing the future and nobody believing....

[bjsm]

Berelain's name (remember she calls herself something something Paendrag)

 

This one is actually sort of interesting. The Firsts of Mayene claim to be descended from Hawkwing's grandson, although it's controversial because everyone thought his grandson had died at the same time his daughter did until suddenly someone showed up claiming to be his grandson right at the beginning of the War of the Hundred Years. The implication is that he was just a fake, but that's why the hawk is the symbol of Mayene.

 

I actually think it's a little odd that no Seanchan have put this together yet. It didn't even occur to the Seanchan working with Perrin to wonder why there was a hawk flag flying above his camp, or why Berelain introduced herself as Berelain sur Paendrag Paeron.

 

http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/Tyrn_sur_Paendrag_Mashera

[dwn]

Berelain's name (remember she calls herself something something Paendrag)

 

This one is actually sort of interesting. The Firsts of Mayene claim to be descended from Hawkwing's grandson, although it's controversial because everyone thought his grandson had died at the same time his daughter did until suddenly someone showed up claiming to be his grandson right at the beginning of the War of the Hundred Years. The implication is that he was just a fake, but that's why the hawk is the symbol of Mayene.

 

I actually think it's a little odd that no Seanchan have put this together yet. It didn't even occur to the Seanchan working with Perrin to wonder why there was a hawk flag flying above his camp, or why Berelain introduced herself as Berelain sur Paendrag Paeron.

 

http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/Tyrn_sur_Paendrag_Mashera

 

Tylee specifically asked about it when first introduced to Berelain. She acknowledged Berelain may be distantly related to the Seanchan royal family, then warned Berelain off pressing any claim to the Crystal Throne.

 

-- dwn

[Kestrel]

If this series were to to go on for several more books, or there were to be a sequel series underway, we could have time to establish and develop a whole "Seanchan rule Randland for a while" plot line. And it may be that RJ originally intended to go there.

 

Now we're faced with a different real-world scenario. Whereas we all know that Brandon will finish AMoL, we haven't been given any hints that he may delve into a sequel WoT series. No, Brandon has to wrap it up all neat and pretty. Well, maybe not pretty, but I sincerely doubt anyone will let him leave the world completely trashed and hopelessly overrun by the Evil Empire. You don't end an epic like the WoT in complete despair if you expect to have a future as an author; even if you leave the world in ashes, any intelligent author will still have redemption and hope rising like a phoenix.

 

So how DO we deal with the Seanchan problem? I think one of the keys to unraveling the whole Seanchan mess will be Hawkwing himself. We know that Mat is going back to the White Tower to reclaim the Horn of Valere. Doubtless he will blow it again, summoning Hawkwing back from the grave once more. I forsee Hawkwing confronting his Seanchan descendants and taking some serious corrective action to set them back on track.

[Diederichos]

The point about the cupbearers and in particular the shea dancers just reinforces what I'm saying. The only in-screen example we have of someone being made either is to Amathera and the threat by Tuon to Mat. Look at Amethera's case, she was a rebel leader that would not bend to the Throne, ergo she was made into a menial servant. And Mat just kidnapped Tuon, again a criminal. What we are seeing, at least on screen, is that the people who get made into the equivalent of chattel slaves are criminals, Amathera, Suroth, etc..., not regular people. As for the da'covale system, I think the ultimate worth of that system to the actual people in the Empire is found when it says that some people try to get themselves made da'covale. And beyond that, da'covale do have right, not the same as commoners, but they have right and above all there are strong societal pressures on treating their da'covale fairly. That does count in WoT, and that especially counts in societies like the Aiel and the Seanchan that do place such huge emphasis on proper behaviour and personal honour.

 

As for those denying that to the average Taraboner, Altaran doesn't really give a crap about damane unless they're directly involved, well look at it, that's exactly what's happening. Beslan, not the most Seanchan friendly person, clearly doesn't give a rat's ass about these damane. Hell, even the Tinkers aren't bothered by it since they won't protest the system unless one of their girls is involved. The only WEstlanders who care about the damane are those who have a teeth in the game. Fundamentally, the way average Westlanders who have dealt with the Seanchan extensively and live under them view the damane is they see an Empire that has brought to heel channelers that were until then responsible only to themselves and accountable to the WT or no one. That the Seanchan are rabidly anti-channeler is understandable, there was no WT there, no Wise Ones/WIndfinders holding honoured positions in their society. Channelers used and abused their ability to accumulate power, I think the guide even says something that before Luthair one could go to sleep uncertain they would wake up. I mean, people, you don't have to agree with the Seanchan's stance on damane and channelers without agreeing that there are very valid reasons why they are so gung-ho about this.

 

A few minor points. Someone said something about Seanchan killing men who channel, everyone does that. Someone said that Seanchan should have learned since their arrival that channelers don't necessary go all manipulative, 1. the WT is really not a good example of this 2. you expect centuries to be changed in a matter of months?

 

To repeat what I said in an earlier post, from a 21st century perspective I disagree with da'covale, damane, their politics, but then I disagree with nobility, with having your birthstation be the greatest determinant of what you do with your life. From a Westlander and specifically from a SEanchan perspective, what they do is perfectly legitimate. The only fault I find them is not granting the damane some degree of rights as with the da'covale, even if they are still leashed.

[Jonn]

I disagree with any system that predetermines what someone must or can do with their life. When people lack the ability to determine their own limitations and aspirations...it's oppression, plain and simple.

 

A channeler must be leashed. A High Blood must plot against their own for power or die. Whatever order you might find in that, it's still a bond of slavery.

 

Just because you have a place to sleep and food to eat, does it mean you should see the right in being treated as a pet? Does it mean that you simply cannot meet someone's eyes? You can't even speak to some people?

 

I feel Jordan created the Seanchan as an example that people can justify any evil. The south on the United States could justify their position of Jim Crow. The French and British could justify their unapologetic imperialism of the past. The Germans could justify their eradication of Jews, Gypsies and homosexuals. The list goes on and on.

 

The Seanchan are a warning. When Aviendha went through the columns again it was a warning that the darkest times were still ahead even if the Shadow is defeated. The world would have to find a way to overcome the shadow within themselves.

[Goramier]

I agree with the idea that the Seachan eventually taking over Randland is distressing. I don't perticularly like them for many reasons. It makes the future seem bleak indeed. But based on what we have so far, that is essentially the future of Randland as it is. That can change based on the last book, however. I also agree that had RJ done more novels or follow up novels that perticular scenerio would have been fleshed out more. But he isn't doing more, nor is BS. Although we can hope BS addresses this in some way...from where I am standing, I look at it as basically the inevitable future. Hopefully BS (or prethought via RJ) includes something to change this. Mayhaps this was what the avi scene was for. It seemed odd to myself and many others the way it was put in there. It could definately be the basis to change this future but from where we are now, I think its only reasonable to conclude that this is in fact, the future of Randland should the good guys win.

[Jack Shaftoe]

I disagree with any system that predetermines what someone must or can do with their life. When people lack the ability to determine their own limitations and aspirations...it's oppression, plain and simple.

 

Okay, how exactly are the Seanchan so much different than a random Randland country in that respect? Remember when the nobles in Tear and Cairhien were shocked when Rand came up with laws that forbid them from abusing commoners? The very idea that that they could be held accountable for something done to commoners was alien to them. Oppressive forms of government are the norm for the time period RJ recreates in a fantasy form in his books.

 

Yes, the Seanchan do try hard to top everyone in brutality and are mean bastards in general but I believe the point of the story is for everyone to move on in their societal developments, not the Seanchan emulating Andor and that is it.

 

Oh, and to be clear, both my Mother and myself think the Seanchan are worse than the Shadow. Shaitan just wants to kill you and destroy the pattern. Big Whoop, you are dead; it's better than being treated like a dog for the rest of your life (and ya, I don't own any pets).

 

Of course, if you die in WoT you are reborn. If the Dark One wins, you won't be reborn, so this is a massive difference. And in the books even Egwene doesn't seem to view the Seanchan as worse than the Shadow.

 

I don't like absolute monarchies at all, read Robin Hood or some real history to see how bad the common folk could be mistreated whenever it struck the fancy of a noble. I am not saying they are good, only that they are better, by quite a long ways, than the Seanchan. You could rebel against the High Lords of Tear, they wouldn't use the power to blow you to pieces.

 

Yes, commoners can be mistreated by an absolute ruler but they also can and often are mistreated by local lords who aren't tightly controlled by the nominal ruler. A strong ruler who can check the power of the regional nobles is generally a good thing, not a sign that the Empire or Kingdom in question is evil for sure. In WoT, Altara, Arad Doman, Ghealdan and the likes don't seem to enjoy the lack of strong central power too much. Having an absolute ruler is better than every local lord thinking he is the absolute ruler because his sovereign is too weak to rule in anything but name over much of the country. It's a choice between two evils, really and considering there are people who willingly go to live in Seanchan controlled territories, I don't think things are simple as "Seanchan bad, everyone else except the Shadow good". If Jordan really intended the Seanchan to be seen as an Empire of Pure Evil, I doubt he woudl have planned to follow WOT with a series of books set in an empire in the mould fo Seanchan.

[Plato]

On Seanchan Prophecy:

 

I forget which book it's in exactly, but its specifically stated by one of the forsaken, at one of their meetings, that the idea that the "dragon reborn will bow to the Crystal Throne" was planted in the Seanchen version of the Karaethon Cycle while one of the forsaken was free (probably Ishy). Not only do the Seanchan have this prophecy, but they also have "The prophecies clearly showed that the Empress would defeat those who served the Shadow, and then she would send the Dragon Reborn in to duel with Lighteater" (TGS ch19). From what we can tell of ToM, the Seanchan are basically left in the south scheming, while everyone else goes to war with the Dark One.

 

Basically, every prophecy we hear Tuon utter is just sun-blinded wrong and corrupted. And the way Tuon is written, we're led to believe nearly everything she does is misguided... The Seanchan are like the perfect tool of the shadow, constantly giving chaos to the Light's plans. Binding up the channelers in a neat little package of control. Their arrogance lends them for a CRUSHING defeat down the line...

 

On Avi's vision:

 

Which is why I think Avi's vision was basically the pattern itself showing her one of many possibilities (or something like that). She was seeking wisdom, what to do with ji'e'toh now that the Aiel fulfilled their toh. Should they still follow it? What to do with Rhuidian now? And then she entered the columns. They merely obliged her with visions of what would happen if that DID happen. She admitted herself that she doesn't know what the pillars did, and that maybe the Aes Sedai who made them didn't even know, so immense was their power. The future she saw was also one where Perrin, Mat, Rand, Elayne, Avi, Egwene, Min, Nyn, Lan and many other clever main characters weren't around to manipulate and control the events and basically "set things right" as those characters have been for the past 13 books. Egwene herself should still be alive by the time Avi's grand daughter brings Andor into the war. No master politician Amyrlin of mine would allow that!

 

On Seanchan society/culture:

Sure the peasants LOVE the Seanchan, but that's only because they were from nations that were previously in chaos. Could you see ANY Andoran humbly acting de'cavle, or Borderlander, or Two River's folk? Having people become property goes against everything THOSE peoples stand for. There would be uprisings everywhere constantly. The southerner's might live well in Seanchan society, only because their lord's trampled all over them, and the burden of a Seanchan lord would be significantly lighter. In Andor we know for sure, common people had rights, and lords couldn't trample the peasant without proper cause. There was a legal system in place in Andor. Peasants could demand a trial. If the Seanchan conquered Andor, they would basically have to grind the nation to dust... I want to say the borderlanders are of similar stock to Andor, but we haven't seen enough of their society other than utter devotion to defending one's land. But that could easily lend itself to the peasant having rights there as well.

 

On damane as an edge in battle:

Also, the Seanchan only use their channeler's as weapons, which might be great when conquering tribes and un-organized kingdoms out west in Seanchan, but what about fighting against Aes Sedai who learn healing, traveling, shields that block fire balls (Dumai's Wall's), forming a circle, using angrael, forming circles with men, Aes Sedai spending their lives in scholarly pursuit discovering tons of other weaves mere Damane can only dream of. To this I say the Seanchan are at a serious dis-advantage, their channeler's only learning a fraction of the weaves everyone else learns. Not too mention the damane is only as clever as the woman in blue and red lightning...

 

So using that evidence, I seriously doubt Avi's vision has any substance to what WILL happen.

 

But I could be wrong... :seanchan: We're all doomed!!! :seanchan:

[shaiel]

About the seanchen propecy:

first time i read it, i though it was really, really stupid, because of ishy and all that seanchan crap. but at the end of TGS there is a part from a seanchan propecy and it's true!

that made me think that maybe the other propecy is true too.

Plus, that propecy is about the dragon bowling to the crystal throne, not to the emperess and that could be a compromise. but the crystal throne is a seandar, so i think seanchan are coming back home before TGD

 

About avis vision

It just doesnt seem "right" to me.

In that future, nobody cares about the suldam-can-channel thing, and thats really strange.

plus whats happened to avi? to elayne? are them both dead? and what has happened to tuon? she cant be dead after only 17 years, and we know she'll survive TGD. i really cant believe to this future, i don't think its likely

[Dunedain Fal]

What he said, ditto.

 

I find some posters's defenses of Seachan to be very something sort of an "apologist" like in the same way some people would gloss over the crimes and atrocities that invaders and conquerors and colonizers did in our real world.

[RUSH]

I disagree with any system that predetermines what someone must or can do with their life. When people lack the ability to determine their own limitations and aspirations...it's oppression, plain and simple.

 

Okay, how exactly are the Seanchan so much different than a random Randland country in that respect? Remember when the nobles in Tear and Cairhien were shocked when Rand came up with laws that forbid them from abusing commoners? The very idea that that they could be held accountable for something done to commoners was alien to them. Oppressive forms of government are the norm for the time period RJ recreates in a fantasy form in his books.

 

It IS similar, and I think that's part of the point. Throughout the series, we are specifically shown scene after scene of Rand coming in and trying his darndest to make things right, the way he sees it (which is very 21st century-ish, equal rights, etc.). He's a good guy with a good heart and a good head, and he's using his position of power to make things better. He's at the forefront of serious social change that will leave Randland a much better place, eventually.

 

The Seanchan represent regression, compared to Rand's progress. Back to the way things were, except even worse. Better for Rand to have gone through with his "nuke them all" plan at the end of TGS than to let the Seanchan spread.

[FarShainMael]

About the seanchen propecy:

first time i read it, i though it was really, really stupid, because of ishy and all that seanchan crap. but at the end of TGS there is a part from a seanchan propecy and it's true!

that made me think that maybe the other propecy is true too.

Plus, that propecy is about the dragon bowling to the crystal throne, not to the emperess and that could be a compromise. but the crystal throne is a seandar, so i think seanchan are coming back home before TGD

 

About avis vision

It just doesnt seem "right" to me.

In that future, nobody cares about the suldam-can-channel thing, and thats really strange.

plus whats happened to avi? to elayne? are them both dead? and what has happened to tuon? she cant be dead after only 17 years, and we know she'll survive TGD. i really cant believe to this future, i don't think its likely

 

And what about Mat? What has he been up to all those years? Can you really see him submitting to being made da'covale, or being executed?

[Duskfire]

What he said, ditto.

 

I find some posters's defenses of Seachan to be very something sort of an "apologist" like in the same way some people would gloss over the crimes and atrocities that invaders and conquerors and colonizers did in our real world.

 

I am not an apologist; what they do is bad. However they also have some good points about their society. Its not as if they are a horrible inhumane race bent on wiping everyone out. Except for channelers, they seem content for people to do as they did prior to them coming in. There are much much worst situations for people to be in then invaded by the Seanchan. Whitecloaks (prior to Galad), the Prophet, even Logain, committed worst against the "common" people then the Seanchan ever did. The channeling thing is horrible, as is the secret police thing to some extent, but in general I think they have potential.

[Dysaster]

My personal thoughts on what will happen with the attack on the WT.

 

Matt has sent a message - through - joline and co. that the WT has something of his that he is going to come for.

 

Matt & a small company of the Band will use the wise ones/kin there to travel to the White Tower to claim the Horn.

 

"Coincidentally" Just after Matt arrives/Gets the Horn...the Seanchan Forces Arrive.. no blowing needed of the horn

 

Matrim Cauthon, the Prince of the Ravens, will just Co-Opt the entire army to go fight the last battle, no arguments allowed.

 

as to how avi/the damane issue will occur.. not quite sure, i have a few possibilities for that, one of which is Galgan? finds out that all sul-dam can channel somehow and Collars Tuon, declares himself emp, Matt goes in, and all sorts of awesomeness occurs

[wvlr2]

I really like the WoT series, but I really have trouble understanding the logic of how the Seanchan can be considered a threat to the Randlands. It just does not add up. But in the future it would be even worse!

 

2 - Randland = 2 Potential Channeler fighters. 2 - Seanchan channelers = 1 Sul'dam/Daemain combo. Basically cuting 1/2 power

 

Randland Channelers can link - creating super Channeler - Seanchan Channelers can not - Big handicap!

 

Randland Channelers can use Angrel and Sa'angrel - Seanchan Channelers can not - Another Big handicap.

 

 

 

Sul'dam/Daemain combo requires two people two people making concious decision to channel. The Sul'dam must release the damain to channel. Resulting in potentially slower reaction time.

 

If you kill/disable either the Sul'dam or the Damaine - you disable the entire weapon. 2 people (adam link) creates twice the exposed target. That represents two potential targets to any Archer or Channeler or Cannoner.

 

Not only that, but since since the Damaine are programmed to submit immediately to whoever "holds" their leash, you can kill the Sul'dam & give the Damaine immediately to any week channeler so that they can immediately be turned their former rulers.

 

 

 

With Randlander Channelers if you kill / disable one - it still leaves the other Channeler fighting.

 

 

Aiel in particular, are experts at stealth / gurilla warfare. WOs normally do not participate in fighting but for the Seanchan I think that they will change. WOs & archers can easily sneek up on Seanchan camps & take out the channelers 2 at a time. WOs now have advantages of having many AS weaves (masking, MoM, inverted weaves, traveling ++.

 

 

Between the Aiel, Black Tower, Sea Folk and White Tower, I just do not see how the Seanchan can represent the threat that they are given in the books. That is as long as these forces established a united front.

[RedVanilla]

I am really hoping that at some point Tuon gets collared and is forced to release all the damane, even if what they do is put a necklace that looks like a collar on them and the marath damane. But if the Seanchan and their Empire take over, I will be upset, their society as a whole needs to be broken, and I hope Setalle gets Healed and can help Tuon see that.

[shaiel]

plus whats happened to avi? to elayne? are them both dead? and what has happened to tuon? she cant be dead after only 17 years, and we know she'll survive TGD. i really cant believe to this future, i don't think its likely

 

And what about Mat? What has he been up to all those years? Can you really see him submitting to being made da'covale, or being executed?

Yeah, thats the point. I cant believe this vision.

(and then a don't care so much.. avi's evil grandaughter started the mess, its her fault!!)