A Memory of Light Speculation

[Astus]

Mat's medallion stops Saidin as well. Arangar tries to channel at him in one of the books and her weave falls apart. I can't recall the book atm, it was during a dance or something in Salidar.

As I can recall, the lightning was a byproduct of whatever Rahvin was doing and not that he was actively shooting out lightning bolts. Mat affected in the same way when Adeleas and Vandene were chucking rocks at him with the power.

[f3llyn]

Mat's medallion stops Saidin as well. Arangar tries to channel at him in one of the books and her weave falls apart. I can't recall the book atm, it was during a dance or something in Salidar.

As I can recall, the lightning was a byproduct of whatever Rahvin was doing and not that he was actively shooting out lightning bolts. Mat affected in the same way when Adeleas and Vandene were chucking rocks at him with the power.

Interesting. I don't recall that ever happening. Not doubting you I just don't remember that particular scene.

[Astus]

I just checked to find the chapter. It was in LOC, Chapter 44.

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/books/loc/ch44.html

[FossMaNo1]

Six month lurker, first time poster...

 

Wow, a lot of really good ideas for how the book will go! Only one thing troubles me: the Dark One.

 

We know that the Dark One's ultimate goal is to separate the Wheel from the Pattern (or vice versa). With Jordan's use of duality throughout the series, we can see the Dark One as the opposite of the Creator. The Creator made the pattern--an idea of order, structure, and planning--therefore with the idea of duality in mind we can see the Dark One as a force that wishes to get rid of the pattern (get rid of order, structure, and planning). He wishes the Wheel gone so He can escape this endless cycle of struggling for freedom--from being oppressed. With the idea of the Dark One as a force opposite of the Pattern, he is in essence of force for chaos. To me, this explains the actions of his "minions." Although each of the Chosen plan and scheme, they can never seem to truly unite, and in so doing constantly trip over one another. The Chosen may become frustrated with this, however I wonder if the Dark One is secretly very happy with it.

 

I guess my biggest problem with the Dark One stems from the way we mere mortals perceive Him: we try to make Him fit into a box of our own design so we can attempt to understand him. We tend to think (and so does probably Egwene at the very least) that if the Dark One is freed from the Seals, the world will be destroyed. But when the Dark One's prison was initially bored into, and freed for the most part, we don't find evidence that He took much of a direct hand in the world's affairs. Instead, He became more available to those with dark impulses (though war was new, it quickly became common practice and was mastered). And even with the formation of the Chosen and the creation of those things associated with the Shadow (trollocs, etc.), we don't find evidence that the Dark One actually did anything. He is, based on my own understandings of the WoT's history, a force of dark influence that without anything to oppose it will eventually corrupt man's heart--corrupting man into a species of Darkfriends (natural born trollocs anyone?)--forming what we affectionately call a "post apocalyptic" world.

 

Essentially I see Rand's struggle--the Dragon's struggle--as one of a choice mankind must make. The Dragon represents mankind. He is the ultimate avatar of man's impulses. Rand has to unite the world in order to defeat the Dark One. Without a united front, the Dark One can reach out a sow the dissension of chaos in man's heart. For man to choose to unite, he is essentially choosing order over chaos. If he instead chooses to maintain his internal bickering a squabbling over power and control, he is essentially choosing the Dark One's chaos.

 

The only problem, however, with my idea that the Dark One has no actual physical impact on the world is one character: Shadar Haran. I can see no other possible reason for him to be except as the Dark One's avatar. Still, I get the impression that Shadar Haran is "lower" than Morridin (although this could still be an effort to sow chaos as teh rest of the Chosen probably don't know who has more power: Morridin or Shadar Haran). The other problem I have with my idea that the Dar One has no physical interaction is the idea that a large part of Jordan's world comes from Norse mythology. In Norse mythology the gods were very "human," and so could be placed in a box of our own aforementioned understanding.

 

I think I'm just rambling now...

[Tom Sawyer]

Ya, Jordan's fit in a bunch of stuff from a bunch of different mythologies and philosophies into the series, so the exact nature of the Last Battle will be very dependent on which of those he decided to throw into the final scene. I don't think the DO will be a physical manifestation that Rand stabs with Callandor and the whole plotline about Rand making a choice between good and evil was wrapped up at the end of TGS, so that won't really be involved.

 

I think that the key to what the Last Battle will be about will involve a line from the prologue of book one when Lews Therin was thinking about his failures just before he killed himself. It was along the lines of "In his pride he had believed that men could match the Creator and mend what the Creator had made and men had broken." That tells me that breaking the seals is the right idea, because they were a flawed notion from the start and the solution isn't some kind of new and better seal that uses saidar as well or any other version of duct taping up the Bore. I don't know what form the actual solution will take, but I do think it will somehow reference back to what Lew Therin was talking about.

[johthohar]

* Gawyn will get in a tight spot and will put on one of the bloodknife rings. It is revealed that warders can survive while wearing the rings.

 

* Androl to learn the trick of making gateways explode, which he will use to great effect in the Last Battle.

 

* There will be a battle at the Fields of Merrilor. (I'm just guessing that the people dressed up as farmers are not actually farmers but channelers.)

 

I doubt Gawyn can survive using one of the rings. Possible but unlikely. More likely that he will use all three at once or distribute them between himself and a couple others who agree to make the sacrifice in order to save Egwene and Co or counter Seanchan bloodknives at some crucial moment.

 

As for the gateway theory, the explosion was a random result that occurred when Aviendha started to unravel her gateway and stopped partway through letting the weaves collapse back together in a random pattern. It could just as easily have neato fireworks or pink cuddly fluffy stuffed animals. It's not something that can be replicated except by chance.

 

Army of dreadlords disguised as farmers is interesting but I think its the people who began gathering in the prologue of tGS and they were redirected to FoM at some point.

[DemandredFO]

I like the idea of the woman dead and gone being Lanfear; it would be a good twist since we all think it's Moiraine. Lanfear being probably the only one still living who knows what was sensed that led her to drill the bore.

I like the idea of Rand sheathing the sword, especially since min saw a black hand clutching Callandor.

Everyone thinks Mat will be important in resolving the Seanchan issues but what of Perrin. Perrin made alliance with Tylee before and he now carries a powerforged hammer and is the wolf-king.

As per egwene's dream of AS calling lightning against the tower I believe the seanchan will start the attack. They may even win and start collaring a long line of women when an army or armies of shadowspawn show up. This forces the seanchan and AS to work together. I like the idea in another thread of Tuon instinctively channeling to save either Mat, if he is there, Karede or Selucia. As we know from Bethamin you can't stop channeling once you've begun.

The final showdown with Slayer may take place at the BT around the dreamspike; don't know if anyone else will interfere.

Overall, I want shadowspawn, worms and the things they're afraid of.

[babuada]

I have a theory about the last fight. It originates from the battle Rand fought in TEoTW. DO wanted to blind the eye and he succeeded. Rand was given a choice of using the Eye to defeat DO. But he wasted it by burning Ishy as per Ishy's plan. The good thing he did is severing a connection to DO. That resulted in a backout of blight. But with the threat of Eye gone, Ishy started to make his move for DO. I think the last battle would be like first one where Rand would try to severe all connections to DO and banish him. But this time he will not fight with any human being anymore and I doubt he will kill any human being anymore. At least he would try very hard not to. His fight would be literrally eradicating the dark and heeling the pattern by presence and work. He will lead by example.

[Majsju]

Six month lurker, first time poster...

 

Wow, a lot of really good ideas for how the book will go! Only one thing troubles me: the Dark One.

 

We know that the Dark One's ultimate goal is to separate the Wheel from the Pattern (or vice versa). With Jordan's use of duality throughout the series, we can see the Dark One as the opposite of the Creator. The Creator made the pattern--an idea of order, structure, and planning--therefore with the idea of duality in mind we can see the Dark One as a force that wishes to get rid of the pattern (get rid of order, structure, and planning). He wishes the Wheel gone so He can escape this endless cycle of struggling for freedom--from being oppressed. With the idea of the Dark One as a force opposite of the Pattern, he is in essence of force for chaos. To me, this explains the actions of his "minions." Although each of the Chosen plan and scheme, they can never seem to truly unite, and in so doing constantly trip over one another. The Chosen may become frustrated with this, however I wonder if the Dark One is secretly very happy with it.

 

I guess my biggest problem with the Dark One stems from the way we mere mortals perceive Him: we try to make Him fit into a box of our own design so we can attempt to understand him. We tend to think (and so does probably Egwene at the very least) that if the Dark One is freed from the Seals, the world will be destroyed. But when the Dark One's prison was initially bored into, and freed for the most part, we don't find evidence that He took much of a direct hand in the world's affairs. Instead, He became more available to those with dark impulses (though war was new, it quickly became common practice and was mastered). And even with the formation of the Chosen and the creation of those things associated with the Shadow (trollocs, etc.), we don't find evidence that the Dark One actually did anything. He is, based on my own understandings of the WoT's history, a force of dark influence that without anything to oppose it will eventually corrupt man's heart--corrupting man into a species of Darkfriends (natural born trollocs anyone?)--forming what we affectionately call a "post apocalyptic" world.

 

Essentially I see Rand's struggle--the Dragon's struggle--as one of a choice mankind must make. The Dragon represents mankind. He is the ultimate avatar of man's impulses. Rand has to unite the world in order to defeat the Dark One. Without a united front, the Dark One can reach out a sow the dissension of chaos in man's heart. For man to choose to unite, he is essentially choosing order over chaos. If he instead chooses to maintain his internal bickering a squabbling over power and control, he is essentially choosing the Dark One's chaos.

 

The only problem, however, with my idea that the Dark One has no actual physical impact on the world is one character: Shadar Haran. I can see no other possible reason for him to be except as the Dark One's avatar. Still, I get the impression that Shadar Haran is "lower" than Morridin (although this could still be an effort to sow chaos as teh rest of the Chosen probably don't know who has more power: Morridin or Shadar Haran). The other problem I have with my idea that the Dar One has no physical interaction is the idea that a large part of Jordan's world comes from Norse mythology. In Norse mythology the gods were very "human," and so could be placed in a box of our own aforementioned understanding.

 

I think I'm just rambling now...

 

You miss a few things in your theiory that the DO can not directly affect the world.

First of all, even at the height of the Shadowspower in the AOL, the DO was not free. And things like Shaidar haran suggests that he had even less ability to touch the world back then than he has now in the 3rd Age.

Second, we have seen him able to directly affect the world by messing around with the weather. He can transmigrate souls (granted, he could do that in the AOL as well, he just did not have much reason to do it, since he had thousands of Chosen to play with).He can physically move around in the world through SH (who, according to RJ is a shadowy form of the DO, only without full access to the DOs powers. And that is just mentioning the biggest things.

[f3llyn]

I doubt Gawyn can survive using one of the rings. Possible but unlikely. More likely that he will use all three at once or distribute them between himself and a couple others who agree to make the sacrifice in order to save Egwene and Co or counter Seanchan bloodknives at some crucial moment.

 

As for the gateway theory, the explosion was a random result that occurred when Aviendha started to unravel her gateway and stopped partway through letting the weaves collapse back together in a random pattern. It could just as easily have neato fireworks or pink cuddly fluffy stuffed animals. It's not something that can be replicated except by chance.

 

Army of dreadlords disguised as farmers is interesting but I think its the people who began gathering in the prologue of tGS and they were redirected to FoM at some point.

It was Elayne not Aviendha.

 

I like the idea of the woman dead and gone being Lanfear; it would be a good twist since we all think it's Moiraine. Lanfear being probably the only one still living who knows what was sensed that led her to drill the bore.

I like the idea of Rand sheathing the sword, especially since min saw a black hand clutching Callandor.

Everyone thinks Mat will be important in resolving the Seanchan issues but what of Perrin. Perrin made alliance with Tylee before and he now carries a powerforged hammer and is the wolf-king.

As per egwene's dream of AS calling lightning against the tower I believe the seanchan will start the attack. They may even win and start collaring a long line of women when an army or armies of shadowspawn show up. This forces the seanchan and AS to work together. I like the idea in another thread of Tuon instinctively channeling to save either Mat, if he is there, Karede or Selucia. As we know from Bethamin you can't stop channeling once you've begun.

The final showdown with Slayer may take place at the BT around the dreamspike; don't know if anyone else will interfere.

Overall, I want shadowspawn, worms and the things they're afraid of.

Didn't Min have that viewing specifically about Moiraine though? I'm pretty sure she did say that it is specifically about her when they meet Caraline Damodred in book 6.

[Randommer]

So I notice that most people think Rand's going to try to reseal the Bore... But from some of his PoVs in TGS didn't it seem like he was thinking of trying to actually destroy the DO? I mean TWoT is this big circular universe where everything repeats, so wouldn't it make sense for the end of the series to be a change from that? Or is there some big reason I've forgotten about why killing the DO couldn't happen..?

[Mazerom]

You miss a few things in your theiory that the DO can not directly affect the world.

First of all, even at the height of the Shadowspower in the AOL, the DO was not free. And things like Shaidar haran suggests that he had even less ability to touch the world back then than he has now in the 3rd Age.

Second, we have seen him able to directly affect the world by messing around with the weather. He can transmigrate souls (granted, he could do that in the AOL as well, he just did not have much reason to do it, since he had thousands of Chosen to play with).He can physically move around in the world through SH (who, according to RJ is a shadowy form of the DO, only without full access to the DOs powers. And that is just mentioning the biggest things.

I'm with you here. The bore was open for well over one hundred years before LTT sealed it and the DO still didn't "get free". I'm not sure I see a physical fight between Rand and the DO because he isn't a creature so much so as a force.

[f3llyn]

So I notice that most people think Rand's going to try to reseal the Bore... But from some of his PoVs in TGS didn't it seem like he was thinking of trying to actually destroy the DO? I mean TWoT is this big circular universe where everything repeats, so wouldn't it make sense for the end of the series to be a change from that? Or is there some big reason I've forgotten about why killing the DO couldn't happen..?

I had this thought as well. But now I'm thinking that was Rand before his realization and he thought that he really could kill the DO with the access key.

[Majsju]

You miss a few things in your theiory that the DO can not directly affect the world.

First of all, even at the height of the Shadowspower in the AOL, the DO was not free. And things like Shaidar haran suggests that he had even less ability to touch the world back then than he has now in the 3rd Age.

Second, we have seen him able to directly affect the world by messing around with the weather. He can transmigrate souls (granted, he could do that in the AOL as well, he just did not have much reason to do it, since he had thousands of Chosen to play with).He can physically move around in the world through SH (who, according to RJ is a shadowy form of the DO, only without full access to the DOs powers. And that is just mentioning the biggest things.

I'm with you here. The bore was open for well over one hundred years before LTT sealed it and the DO still didn't "get free". I'm not sure I see a physical fight between Rand and the DO because he isn't a creature so much so as a force.

 

I have never been a fan of a physical fight between Rand and the DO.e ven as powered up as he is now, Rand is still just a human, whereas the DO is a god. It is simply impossible to come up with an actual confrontation between the two that can result in both a good ending and Rand victorious.

 

I amstill trying to connect a number of random observations and thougts, but I am very much leaning towards Rand being far less important for the outcome than a lot of people here will like. (This ties in with my old theory that the battle at Falme was a huge foreshadowing for what would happen at TG).

[johthohar]

It was Elayne not Aviendha.

 

Are you sure? I thought I remembered Aviendha doing it because she talks about how much difficulty she has with gateways. Or was it her that opened the gateway from the city to the Kin's little village and then Elayne after that? One moment... Will check.

 

EDIT: Okay. You were right.

 

When was it Aviendha was all frustrated about her gateway difficulties?

[Majsju]

It was Elayne not Aviendha.

 

Are you sure? I thought I remembered Aviendha doing it because she talks about how much difficulty she has with gateways. Or was it her that opened the gateway from the city to the Kin's little village and then Elayne after that? One moment... Will check.

 

EDIT: Okay. You were right.

 

When was it Aviendha was all frustrated about her gateway difficulties?

 

Earlier in the same book, when she opened a gateway to the Kins farm. Same time she gets all freaked out because she thinks someone is watching her, someone who we as a reader finds out is moridin.

[johthohar]

It was Elayne not Aviendha.

 

Are you sure? I thought I remembered Aviendha doing it because she talks about how much difficulty she has with gateways. Or was it her that opened the gateway from the city to the Kin's little village and then Elayne after that? One moment... Will check.

 

EDIT: Okay. You were right.

 

When was it Aviendha was all frustrated about her gateway difficulties?

 

Earlier in the same book, when she opened a gateway to the Kins farm. Same time she gets all freaked out because she thinks someone is watching her, someone who we as a reader finds out is moridin.

 

Okay so I corrected myself. Good deal. Anyway the original point I made still stands.

[blazetheearth]

I hope that Mat does blow the HoV at least once, for a couple of reasons.

 

1. Just to see what will happen w/ Brig - will she be teleported to the other heroes or will nothing at all happen - signifying that her connection to the HoV had been severed?

 

2. I'm curious to see if Jain and/or Verin show up.

 

I really liked Hopefire's summary on page 1 of the thread. That was actually the first place that I put together Mat getting the HoV from WT with the timing of the upcoming 2nd Battle of the White Tower. I thought the entire summary was very well thought out and well presented.

 

Kudos, Hopefire.

[Majsju]

It was Elayne not Aviendha.

 

Are you sure? I thought I remembered Aviendha doing it because she talks about how much difficulty she has with gateways. Or was it her that opened the gateway from the city to the Kin's little village and then Elayne after that? One moment... Will check.

 

EDIT: Okay. You were right.

 

When was it Aviendha was all frustrated about her gateway difficulties?

 

Earlier in the same book, when she opened a gateway to the Kins farm. Same time she gets all freaked out because she thinks someone is watching her, someone who we as a reader finds out is moridin.

 

Okay so I corrected myself. Good deal. Anyway the original point I made still stands.

 

Not really, since the impression vi gives in the book is that there is no way to predict what effect a failed unraveling will have. Elayne was extremely lucky to get an effect that not only damaged then enemy, but also did not have any nasty "bonus" like burning her and Avi out.

Also, how would Androl even know that this is something that is possible to do? The only group we know who have this ability is the Aiel, and there are no Wise Ones at the BT. And frankly, Androl is too tiny a character to gain yet another super ability, to even give him one was stretching it a bit.

[Majsju]

I hope that Mat does blow the HoV at least once, for a couple of reasons.

 

1. Just to see what will happen w/ Brig - will she be teleported to the other heroes or will nothing at all happen - signifying that her connection to the HoV had been severed?

 

2. I'm curious to see if Jain and/or Verin show up.

 

I really liked Hopefire's summary on page 1 of the thread. That was actually the first place that I put together Mat getting the HoV from WT with the timing of the upcoming 2nd Battle of the White Tower. I thought the entire summary was very well thought out and well presented.

 

Kudos, Hopefire.

 

 

Regarding Birgitte, I would say that Mins viewing have already given us at least part of the answer. According to the viewing, Birgitte will for the first time be older than Cain, so wither she is still bound, or her current inc arnation will be rebound. So my guess is that Mat can toot till he is blue in the face, Birgitte will still stay where she is.

 

 

[johthohar]

I hope that Mat does blow the HoV at least once, for a couple of reasons.

 

1. Just to see what will happen w/ Brig - will she be teleported to the other heroes or will nothing at all happen - signifying that her connection to the HoV had been severed?

 

2. I'm curious to see if Jain and/or Verin show up.

 

I really liked Hopefire's summary on page 1 of the thread. That was actually the first place that I put together Mat getting the HoV from WT with the timing of the upcoming 2nd Battle of the White Tower. I thought the entire summary was very well thought out and well presented.

 

Kudos, Hopefire.

 

My understanding was that when a Hero of the Horn is in the real world they aren't connected to the Horn. I mean what if Gaidal Cain had been reborn a month earlier when the Horn is blown. He wouldn't just disappear from his crib and suddenly reappear on horseback in armored booties brandishing a spiked rattle and cooing a war cry. My take on it is that even though Birgette got the boot from TAR and wasn't spun out she won't regain her connection to the HoV until she kicks the bucket again. And I'm gonna go on record now saying I think she'll croak protecting Elayne's dumb pregnant ass in aMoL. Done.

[Viperswhip]

I have read a lot of people speculating, or having done so before ToM that channeling would disappear from Randland after the Last Battle. I always thought that was a little nuts and if Avi's walk through the columns has any truth to it, then channeling survives. However, I was thinking last night before bed that it kind of has to, or everyone evil who can channel has to die and none reemerge for a thousand years or so. Despite the fact that the bore was sealed three thousand years or so ago there seems to be a pretty decent understanding in Randland of how the War of Power got started. I am not saying there is a guide to drilling a bore out there, but knowing something is possible is half the battle of making it an actuality. So if a few dark Ashaman and Aes Sedai survive they could theoretically spend some of their several centuries of life figuring out how to rip a new hole in Shaitan's prison.

 

This may be overlooked by the author's but I don't think the answer "well nobody knows how to drill the bore" is an answer I would accept given that Rand and Nynaeve keep doing things nobody thought was possible even in the AoL. I am not a super imaginative person which is one of the reason I love fantasy so much, so I don't have much in the way of speculative theories on what will happen. I hope the pacing is better than it was in ToM because we still have a lot to get through.

[johthohar]

Okay so I corrected myself. Good deal. Anyway the original point I made still stands.

 

Not really, since the impression vi gives in the book is that there is no way to predict what effect a failed unraveling will have. Elayne was extremely lucky to get an effect that not only damaged then enemy, but also did not have any nasty "bonus" like burning her and Avi out.

Also, how would Androl even know that this is something that is possible to do? The only group we know who have this ability is the Aiel, and there are no Wise Ones at the BT. And frankly, Androl is too tiny a character to gain yet another super ability, to even give him one was stretching it a bit.

 

Meant to include this in my last post. Stupid cut&paste fraking up.

 

Actually, if you look back, it was the guy I was quoting who suggested Androl could learn this. I made pretty much the same point you did just now. Thank you very much!

[Corvinus]

OK, so here are my predictions for AMOL without any influence from the other posts since I haven't read any.

The Field of Merillor

Not much will happen here except for a short debate about the seals, short because it will be interrupted by dire news from Caemlyn, and possibly the White Tower. And also maybe by Demandred attacking the camp (fingers crossed). So then all the armies will scramble about to get where they are needed. There will be great shouting and gesticulating, and some threats thrown back and forth, all ending with Rand using his super ta'veren powers to restore order and take command (after all, Lewis Therin was commander of all the forces of the Light, so why not?) He will then send appropriate armies to deal with Trollocs and maybe the Seanchen. Now if Rand learns about how the Trollocs attacked Caemlyn, he will realize that probably all the Waygates are unguarded and virtually all the major cities are in peril. Rand himself will go to Tarwin's Gap to help Lan.

SIDE NOTE: Long ago on the forums of wotmania I predicted massive Trolloc attacks through the waygates.

I also predicted that the Ogier will come into play here. For example, Stedding Shangtai, where the Stump is taking place is fairly close to Tear. Would be awesome that right when the Trollocs move in to besiege the Stone, and King Darlin (or Rand) is desperately trying to break the siege, the Ogier come to the rescue led by Loial. Also, since Ogier can be transported through gateways, Rand can then send them to guard or defend all the places where there are Waygates.

But here is something that would blow people's minds. What if Rand goes into the Ways destroys the Black Wind and heals them, thus allowing the Ogier to use them and fight Trollocs right there, where numbers might not mean much because of the allowable space.

 

The Black Tower

Really not sure about this one. I suspect Pevara and Androl will organize an escape attempt, which I think will fail, thus allowing the readers to finally see what this 13x13 conversion to the Shadow is about from Pevara's POV. However, the survivors will be rescued at the last moment by a combined effort involving Logain and his buddies, Aes Sedai, and Perrin, and maybe Rand. The Black Tower is destroyed, Taim is killed, and Rand gives Logain command of all the remaining Asha'man.

 

The Seanchen

Mat needs to reign in his wife. Enough said.

 

There will be an epic three-way battle at Shayol Ghul between Rand, Moridin, and the wild card formerly known as Fain.

[dshirey09]

I liked the idea about Lanfear's demands from the Finns, but I guess we have no idea whether they are still valid if you "die" and then are brought back to life by DO...

 

Anyone have any verification? Its really the ONLY case that we know of in the book that this happens.