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A Memory of Light Speculation


Luckers

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Things that *maybe* highlight this idea: Elaida's foretelling of Caemlyn royal line being at the center of winning the Last Battle.

I thought that foretelling referred to Rand, considering he was technically of the Andoran royal line.

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I suspect Fain will in some way be used to seal the bore. Think about it. Flinn uses the wound from the Shadar Logoth dagger to counteract the effects of the shadow inflicted wound, then Rand uses the evil of Shadar Logoth to cleanse the taint from Saidin. I'm guessing that's all just foreshadowing. I think somehow when the new seal is made, Rand will somehow seal Fain in with the Dark One and the two evils will be locked in combat together for eternity, unable to effect the outside world.

 

 

You mean the whole Gollum into the fires of Mount Doom scenario?

Really?

I'd not be surprised, but I'd be disappointed.

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Boy, after the disappointment that was ToM, in many ways, I'm afraid to speculate. Indeed, I feel the end will be rushed and unsatisfying, despite some really nice moments, much like ToM was for me.

 

First, I better get some sort of explanation for what Rand and Egwene have been doing for the last month, and why both thought it was a good idea to basically let the BT and the 50 AS there, the Seanchan, Lan, and almost all of the Borderlands slide until the day before the Last Battle. Not to mention actually giving someone other than Min the task of actually trying to figure out how to win the thing.

 

When Bashere arrived at Maradon, he said "We should have been here days ago.." To what was he referring? Rand arrived with "large numbers" of Asha'man and Aes Sedai. Other than his sworn nine (who seem to be scattered), Caddy's group of what, five (who didn't appear to be there) and the sworn sisters from Cairhien, he doesn't seem to have any. Is 30 a "large number?"

 

OK, now that that is off my chest.

 

In terms of battles:

 

1) The Battle for Caemlyn is started, with half the Band and the mercs around town there, with Taim in control of the BT, and the Dreamspike preventing Gateways in (at least to the BT area. Elayne doesn't mention Gateways not working (she got to Cairhein OK after Gawyn left), so the forces of the Light should be able to Gate in to the Palacea area, if not the BT.

 

I'm already slightly ticked here (Verin should have done a LOT better), I hope the rescue/battle makes up for it. I think Elayne should find out immediately (during the night), since Gateways seem to be working for her. I'd assume all the FoM stuff will be postponed until Caemlyn is dealt with. If somehow they can't get messages out (via the Palace or Mat), then that is lame.

 

Personally, if Caemlyn is in danger, I'd assume Elayne (and Perrin, as her subject) would have to go back. And Mat would for the Band as well. Or he may stay in Caemlyn, and send Grady/Thom/Moiraine ahead with the message, if Elayne doesn't already know. And Rand does have responsibility for the BT, he should have to do something. And where is Logain?

 

2) Lan at Tarwin's gap.

 

Don't know where he is in the timeline, but it has to be fairly close. He noticed the Nynaeve had his bond when he was on the Kandori/Arafellian border, and now he's at the Gap. Criminal that he still has no help. Shame on Rand and Egwene. They had a month.

 

There had better be some Aiel there helping, or Dobraine. Or Logain. Or some sisters. Something.

 

3) Heethe Tower burning in Kandor, and likely battle raging in Arafel as well.

 

Hopefull Alanna did something. Again, it is criminal there has been no help from the Dragon or the WT. And explanation is needed. At a minimum, the Borderlander's need to be sent North immediately, and the Shienarran's to the Gap. With some channelers.

 

4) Imminent Seanchan attack on the WT.

 

Someone needs to kick Tuon's ass. And Elaida's. I hope it is Artur Hawkwing, with an assist from Mat. Maybe after Joline's message, Egwene had the sense to bring the Horn with her. But I doubt it. Don't know when the attack will occur. But I'm guessing the day of the meeting.

-----------------------------------

 

At a minimum, we'll need the Caemlyn/BT plots finished up for the LB. And probably the WT/Seanchan plot as well.

 

In terms of plots/personel:

 

1) We need to figure out the Dragon's Peace.

2) Aviendha need to come in with her info.

3) Multiple Moiraine reunions, we better find out her "wishes."

4) Rand finds out he's a daddy, and meets his half brother.

5) Mat needs to head to the Tower and get the Horn of Valere.

6) Tuon needs to be confronted by Rand AND Mat. And get her ass kicked.

7) The WT (and Siuan/Leane/Moiraine) needs to figure out that stilling can be completely healed, lets try it on those three, shall we?

8) Loial and the Ogier need to make an impact.

9. Is that whole Seeking the Song thing going to come to a head

 

 

You are quite right that with huge armies at their disposal, Rand etc. is just letting the Borderlanders fight against massive odds.

And how big are these areas of the blight? What do millions of Trollocs feed on?

I thought there was little life in the blight?

 

I know I'm picking plot-holes, but come on. Where are they getting hundreds of thousands of Trollocs from? All fully grown, all marching to fight, all seemingly fully fed. Yeah, after wins they can eat the dead, but before that? When the armies are massing?

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It would be totally awesome if instead of the We-must-be-leaf-eaters self flagellation that is being forced down the throats of the Aiel, Aviendha were to return and be all like "I saw that Queen Tovarla's future bitchery resulted in the doom of my people" and stabs Elayne through the heart.

The Aiel doomed themselves, Queen Whats-her-name (definitely not Tovarla), Elayne's granddaughter, had nothing to do with it. Avi herself thought it was her descendants who were to blame, not Elayne's. Whwen the Aiel tricked Andor and the other Westland countries to enter the war against the Seanchan, that eventually turned the war in Seanchan's favor because it allowed them to capture many more damane. Before that, the Aiel were holding the Seanchan to a draw.

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The Aiel doomed themselves, Queen Whats-her-name (definitely not Tovarla), Elayne's granddaughter, had nothing to do with it. Avi herself thought it was her descendants who were to blame, not Elayne's. Whwen the Aiel tricked Andor and the other Westland countries to enter the war against the Seanchan, that eventually turned the war in Seanchan's favor because it allowed them to capture many more damane. Before that, the Aiel were holding the Seanchan to a draw.

 

Meh, I'm not that interested in laying blame, but rather in speculating how awesome IT WOULD BE if Elayne WERE stabbed through the heart.

 

As for the rest, firstly, it still hasn't been established if the "viewing" was Minagesque unavoidable viewing of the future, a Rhuideanesque possible viewing of the future, or White-Toweresque fake concern put into vision form viewing.

 

Secondly, Queen Tovarla (I really am not interested in learning the names of quaternary peripheral characters who may or may not even come into existence) really did behave like a raging bitch to the Aiel delegation.

 

And finally I just want to restate my opposition to the forced "pacification" of an entire culture as the only way to salvage them. It really isn't about the "War is BAD Peace is GOOD" 2nd grade morality that is being espoused here, but rather about more fundamental concepts of free will and individuality. While we may argue from hither to yon about how the tinkers are the only "True" Aiel, their behaviour, the behaviour of the Aiel as seen in the age of legends, and even the Amayar, is complete anathema to me. The concept that there is only one TRUE ("Jenn" if you will) way of existence and anyone who disagrees must be burnt as a witch is just so...so-rage inducing.

 

Didn't Sulin lay this out for us like 50 books ago ? There are those among the maidens who feel they have had enough, or they want to raise a family, or they are called to be wise ones, or what have you and they do it. But the ones who remain are the ones who CHOOSE it because they WANT to, not because they HAVE to.

Ask yourself the question she posed then - "Would you have us break our spears, and wear skirts, and tend hearth, and wait for scraps from your hand" - because this is exactly the future that is being shaped for them at the moment - and then ask how is this even remotely fair, or acceptable, or morally justified ?

 

You said the "Aiel doomed themselves" but I don't see the Andorans, or Seanchan, or whoever else lay down their arms and sing songs of leaves in this future. Why the double standard ?

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I certainly agree that the Aiel becoming ultrapacifists will be disappointing and a bit stupid, I just commented on how it was presented in the visions.

 

I personally don't want the Aiel to become the Aiel of AoL again, because this would feel like a totally unnatural 180 degree shift in a whole culture almost overnight. So their ancestors were such, big deal, this was 3000 years ago, now the situation is completely different. Besides, I find the extreme pacifist stand, which doesn't allow even for self-defense,ridiculous, especially in a world which would be even after the Shadow is dealt with, full of danger.

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And finally I just want to restate my opposition to the forced "pacification" of an entire culture as the only way to salvage them. It really isn't about the "War is BAD Peace is GOOD" 2nd grade morality that is being espoused here, but rather about more fundamental concepts of free will and individuality.

 

Personally, I'm more upset by the Two Rivers' giving up a workable democracy for the sake of the idiocy of feudalism. That's a lot worse than a society of warriors having to learn how to do something other than wage war. What indication do we have that the Aiel must return to the Way of the Leaf in order to survive? What we do know is that the Aiel of this Age will go the way of the Jenn Aiel if they attempt to hold on to their identity as a warrior society. The Jenn's way of life no longer made sense after the Breaking, and the Aiel's way of life will no longer make sense after Tarmon'Gaidon. The Wheel turned the Aiel into a tool, a weapon, for the Dragon, and what we saw is that once he uses them they will not survive if they do not become something else. Despite the aesthetic appeal of Aiel culture to readers, a culture geared entirely toward war is extremely one-sided and hardly manifests the variety of human life. That way of life will no longer be viable in the Fourth Age, and they will be destroyed if they don't change.

 

Robert Jordan is hardly espousing a "War is bad, peace is good" morality, which would be absurd coming from him, but is rather showing the fatal flaw of the Aiel's "War is good, peace is bad" code.

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Robert Jordan is hardly espousing a "War is bad, peace is good" morality, which would be absurd coming from him, but is rather showing the fatal flaw of the Aiel's "War is good, peace is bad" code.

 

But when have they ever espoused that code at all ? My opposition to the upcoming pacification stems not from that fact, but from the idea that the Aiel must need change at ALL.

They are a militaristic society, sure, but so is everyone else - what they definitely are NOT is a monolithic society.

As we saw when we went to Clan Two Spires (more made-up-names, I apologize) they have quite a substantial portion of their populace who lives quite happily as artisans, craftsmen, food-producers, what have you - after all there must be people who produce the spears and weave the veils as well the people who use them. There was no indication that Rhuarc's second wife (lets call her TwAmys since I doubt she will ever appear again) - who specifically did NOT bear arms - was any less respected than, or spat upon, in comparison to the warrior womyn. In fact quite the song and dance was made of her authority and the respect that must be accorded to a hold mistress.

 

Is there any indication, really, that the Aiel live for war and nothing else, compared to anyone else ? Sure they had their clan raids and territorial spats, but whither then Tear and Illian and Mayen ? What about the periodic warfare between Arad Doman and Tarabon over Almoth Plain ? Other than the great war, which really wasn't about conquest but more about punishment, the Aiel to me seemed quite happy to live within their nation and leave everyone else alone. As opposed to say, the SEANCHAN. Why have they suddenly been singled out as a warmongering horde of malingers who need reformation ?

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  • 3 weeks later...

I'm just going to focus on one thing: the use of Callandor.

 

I am of the opinion (and have been since book 7 or so) that through various circumstances Rand, Alivia ("she will help you die" prophecy), and Moridin (explained shortly) will be the circle wielding Callandor. This fits in very nicely with "the three shall be one" because each of the powers is used. To those who say that the true power shouldn't be used, please read the following paragraph.

 

Rand, at the moment, believes that at least one of the things that went wrong with Lews Therin's attempt to reseal the bore was not using saidar. He thinks that maybe this is what allowed the DO to retaliate and taint saidin. Whether this is true or not, I don't know, but I believe that if the TP (through Moridin) is used as a buffer between the DO and saidin/saidar. Essentially it would look like this:

 

(Dark One)(TP)(Saidin/Saidar weaves)

 

This way, the DO cannot retaliate directly at Saidin and Saidar. I refuse to speculate about how the "rubble" will be cleared away before Rand can rebuild, though. I want to be surprised. =)

 

For the body swap theorists, I will describe how I imagine this above theory working with the body swap theory. Once the DO is sealed (or maybe as he is being sealed), Moridin will lose access to the TP. He will then open himself to saidin and activate the balefire link with Rand. As they will both be channeling saidin, WHAM body swap. Alivia perhaps feels it happen because she is in the circle, or maybe Min pops up and uses her visions to figure out that they switched. Alivia runs "Rand" through with Callandor or maybe helps Min or Rand (in Moridin's body) run "Rand" through... something like that. Perhaps it is even at this point that we get Rand's blood on the rocks of shayol ghul. Then those cool paper puppet dreams come into play because it will be given out that Rand is dead and then Aviendha/Elayne/Min can all go live in a hovel somewhere. Not really, just Rand will live there, but they will visit regularly. Perhaps nightly. Hehe... o.o

 

Don't bash me too hard. ;)

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  • 3 weeks later...
Guest akates3

I'm a first time poster, but I had an idea while reading the predictions about how the Bore might be sealed. Not really sure if anyone has already said this but here it goes.

 

We know from Lews Therin when he was in Rand's head in an earlier book, not sure which one at the moment, that something has to actually touch the Dark One for the Bore to be sealed, and that this was how Saidin was tainted in the AoL. We also know from ToM that Rand's presence alone now will push back the Dark One: like the clouds splitting when he arrives, finding stores of unspoiled food when he is around, or apples miraculously growing. What if this characteristic is what is used to reseal the bore? What I mean is, what if by touching the Dark One himself at ShayoL Ghul (basically standing in the hole in the Dark One's prison), Rand pushes the Dark One back into his prison, and thus allows the Bore to be sealed over safely. Rand wouldn't even have to be the one to do the sealing, and I'm not sure that he would be able to having his hands full with keeping the Dark One at bay and what not. The circle holding Callandor would be the obvious choice to do the sealing and would probably contain Nynaeve for her strength, healing ability, and promise to Rand to help, Alivia also for her strength and the prophecy to help him die, and one of the more powerful Asha'man (maybe Logain).

 

I have always been of the opinion that Rand is a sacrifice needed to win the Last Battle and that he will not live through it. When Saidin was tainted by touching the Dark One, the magnitude of the taint was enormous. Assuming that the same thing will happen to Rand if he touches the Dark One himself to push him back through the Bore, I believe that this is the way that Rand will die, and he will only live long enough to see the sealing safely done.

 

It's just a rough outline of a theory, so let me know what you think.

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Here's how it will end.

 

Elayne and Neald will work together to try and create a super ter'angreal, but they will actualy accidentaly make a PS3 instead.

 

 

Then, Rand, Moridin, Mat, and Demandred will battle it out on a free-for-all deathmatch in COD Black Ops to decide the fate of the world. Mat and Demandred, being the military geniuses they are, will hold the top two spots for the entire 10-minute match. Rand and Moridin will spend most of the match dying from headshot one-hit-one-kills, until each of them lose their controller to balefire out of frustration. Without controllers, they will be unable to respawn. Mat and Demandred will go into a one on one sudden death, and Mat's techniques will win out, if barely, over Demandred's.

 

The DO will quietly shrink back into his hole, embarrassed at the fact that his minions were beaten.

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Robert Jordan is hardly espousing a "War is bad, peace is good" morality, which would be absurd coming from him, but is rather showing the fatal flaw of the Aiel's "War is good, peace is bad" code.

 

But when have they ever espoused that code at all ? My opposition to the upcoming pacification stems not from that fact, but from the idea that the Aiel must need change at ALL.

They are a militaristic society, sure, but so is everyone else - what they definitely are NOT is a monolithic society.

As we saw when we went to Clan Two Spires (more made-up-names, I apologize) they have quite a substantial portion of their populace who lives quite happily as artisans, craftsmen, food-producers, what have you - after all there must be people who produce the spears and weave the veils as well the people who use them. There was no indication that Rhuarc's second wife (lets call her TwAmys since I doubt she will ever appear again) - who specifically did NOT bear arms - was any less respected than, or spat upon, in comparison to the warrior womyn. In fact quite the song and dance was made of her authority and the respect that must be accorded to a hold mistress.

 

Is there any indication, really, that the Aiel live for war and nothing else, compared to anyone else ? Sure they had their clan raids and territorial spats, but whither then Tear and Illian and Mayen ? What about the periodic warfare between Arad Doman and Tarabon over Almoth Plain ? Other than the great war, which really wasn't about conquest but more about punishment, the Aiel to me seemed quite happy to live within their nation and leave everyone else alone. As opposed to say, the SEANCHAN. Why have they suddenly been singled out as a warmongering horde of malingers who need reformation ?

 

No other people are ddicated to the Way of the Leaf bone deep. The Aiel are, and only the recent Aiel seem to think that it was a promise to the Aes Sedai. They are Daishan, it's who they are.

 

When Toh is met, it is as if the transgression never happened. If they believe they met their Toh, then according to their own culture, it must return to how it was before.

 

It's not something Rand should force on them, it's a decision they need to come to on their own. Otherwist they have no Ji.

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rambling

 

Haha... See how I'm funny? Anyway.....

 

To say that the introduction of the Three Oaths stabilized society after the breaking is naive in the extreme. And the fact that they are giving up half of their natural life span is pretty stupid. Retarded may have been a bad choice of words but I've never been a very PC person.

 

Philosophy is all well and good but whether or not 300 years is enough versus 600 years isn't the point. Their primary concern should have been about preserving knowledge. Which they did a piss poor job of. Half the lifespan means twice the number of generations between Age of Legends Aes Sedai and modern Aes Sedai. More generations of Aes Sedai means more knowledge lost. Not to mention it cut in half the time the AoL Aes Sedai had to record or impart all that knowledge to the next generation. Of course that is assuming that the Three Oaths were instituted before all the AoL Sisters were dead. They knew that if the Forsaken ever escaped from the bore that they would have all the knowledge of the previous age. They should have been making sure whatever weaves and artifacts that survived the breaking were saved if they could have been used against the Shadow. Now they did collect a pretty good stockpile of angreal and ter'angreal but modern Aes Sedai have no idea how most of the ter'angreal work. Again, failure to preserve knowledge. So, instead of preparing to defend against the Shadow should it rise again, they decided to eliminate male channeling and take all the piss out of the women. And if you think about it, the Three Oaths do nothing but impede the forces of the Light. The oath against lying is nothing short of completely pointless. The Aes Sedai of today have found every possible way to be dishonest without actually lying. Because of the oath against using the power as a weapon none of the Sisters are very well practiced at fighting with Saidar. Swearing off making power wrought weapons was beyond stupid. Nothing is going to stop dreadlords from arming the Shadow's armies but you deny the same advantage to the armies of the Light. Egwene thought about abolishing the Oaths but oh no! Siuan thought it would give the Sisters an identity crisis. Aes Sedai are an exaggerated version of what is wrong with modern governments. They think they know what is best for everyone but in reality they are only screwing us all.

 

[/rant]

 

You are right to rant. Especially since I doubt the Ashanman will submit to the three oaths, even if they did find a binding chair.

 

And it's not 600. The Jenn Aiel built Rhuideen about 1000 years after the breaking? They had an AOL Aes Sedai with them. Assuming that on average they were around 200 at the time of the breaking... I think 600 is a low estimate.

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Here's what I think.

 

A Memory of Light

 

A Memory of Light

 

 

I think a certain Prophecy hasn't been forfilled. Yet.

 

TEotW,Ch40

"This I Foretell and swear under the Light that I can say no clearer. From this day Andor marches toward pain and division. The Shadow has yet to darken to its blackest, and I cannot see if the Light will come after. Where the world has wept one tear, it will weep thousands. This I Foretell." Then to Rand, "This, too, I Foretell. Pain and division come to the whole world, and this man stands at the heart of it."
(emphasis mine)

 

 

A Memory of Light will start with a heavy Darkfriend / Dark Side focused prologue.

Then well see the F.o.M. and the Dragons Peace. They will charge in and confront the Dark One, where Rand will break the seals. He will loose and die (but somehow still live). Everthing will spiral downward. The Dark One will be free, and be gaining more power the longer he is free (as he was before the bore was sealed). Randland will be overrun on a huge scale. Almost overun. Brealy surviving. Resistance will be fickle as a flame in the wind. All will seem lost.

 

 

Light itself will become but a Memory.

 

 

Enter he who is dead yet lives.

Somehow he saves the day.

 

 

This I fortell!

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First post here, long time lurker.

 

Perrin dies as per the Shadow prophecy. He dies of his wounds after smashing Shaidar Haran in the head with his hammer. Rather than the forces of the Light be completely demoralized, they rise up and smash the armies of the Shadow.

 

Demandred kills Moridin. Demandred is angry and jealous. Moridin has made no secret of his intention to be the one to face Rand on that fateful day. Demandred's only goal is to kill Rand. I don't see how leading armies fighting the forces of the Light or conquering cities who's armies have departed to the FoM contribute to killing the Dragon Reborn. Rand isn't even going to be on the battlefield, much less directing armies......he has Mat, Perrin, Ituralde, Bashere, Bryne, and the Aiel to do that. I think Demandred would betray the Dark One himself if he saw a decent chance to kill Rand.

 

Lanfear is a tool used in another attempt to lure Rand to side with the Shadow. I don't know how, but I think it will be a closer attempt, even moreso than the turn in TGS.

 

Mat betrays Rand. Yes, I went there. I think Rand does get near to siding with the Shadow and makes demands of the Seanchan that are not to be considered. Siding with his wife, Mat as the Prince of Ravens leads the Seanchan forces under the impression that Rand must bow before the Crystal Throne. I always thought Mat would put Tuon on a higher pedestal than he would with Rand.

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I will not speculate as to how it ends, there is plenty of that and by default someone will be close or right on and the rest will be off.

 

As for me, I am excited for the final book. BS is something like a quarter of the way through the reread and has begun writing. I think his website lists the writing part at 1%. Anyways, for me, I am just excited to read how this all ends. I have been reading for many, many years and am definately ready for the conclusion. I know many here would love more books to come out and possibly expansions of the series but not so much for me. RJ is gone now and I personally feel that any such endeavors wouldn't be true to the series. If BS wrote them I would probably read them but maybe not. I am personally ready to read the ending and move on.

 

I personally have come to understand that the last book is going to leave alot unsaid. I am sure there will be many threads in the story that are simply blown off quickly to resolve them or are left untouched. I just have a hard time imagining how BS could possibly resolve it all and still write a good ending. I have always envisioned the final battle to be about half of the last book. I guess personally I would like to see warfronts all over, lots of battles being faught, lots of deaths from characters we know, lots and lots of dead shadowspawn, meeting the dreadlords and reading how they fall, and of course the conclusion revolving around Rand.

 

With that said, I just HOPE the last book is tons of battles and fighting leading into the conclusion of the story and the final reveal of Rands future one way or the other.

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I will not speculate as to how it ends, there is plenty of that and by default someone will be close or right on and the rest will be off.

 

As for me, I am excited for the final book. BS is something like a quarter of the way through the reread and has begun writing. I think his website lists the writing part at 1%. Anyways, for me, I am just excited to read how this all ends. I have been reading for many, many years and am definately ready for the conclusion. I know many here would love more books to come out and possibly expansions of the series but not so much for me. RJ is gone now and I personally feel that any such endeavors wouldn't be true to the series. If BS wrote them I would probably read them but maybe not. I am personally ready to read the ending and move on.

 

I personally have come to understand that the last book is going to leave alot unsaid. I am sure there will be many threads in the story that are simply blown off quickly to resolve them or are left untouched. I just have a hard time imagining how BS could possibly resolve it all and still write a good ending. I have always envisioned the final battle to be about half of the last book. I guess personally I would like to see warfronts all over, lots of battles being faught, lots of deaths from characters we know, lots and lots of dead shadowspawn, meeting the dreadlords and reading how they fall, and of course the conclusion revolving around Rand.

 

With that said, I just HOPE the last book is tons of battles and fighting leading into the conclusion of the story and the final reveal of Rands future one way or the other.

 

 

I've got a bad feeling that it'll go the way of LOTR book 1 - 90 pages of the conference at the field of merrilor, with quick breaks to gather up the Seanchan from Tar Valon before concluding in another 90 pages.

 

Of course, since there's no journey involved (gateways) they'll have to have a chapter or two on Lan or Talmanes or Tuon to keep you interested, but mostly it'll be all talking, travel to Shayol Ghul, then game over.

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