Prince of the Ravens

[Lews Therin Telamon]

What exactly has Mat gained/will Mat gain through his new title?

 

Ive noticed that the Deathwatch Guards have tattoos of ravens; does this mean Mat will lead the Deathwatch Guards? That would make sense as their purpose is to protect the Empress of Seanchan, which of course Tuon will be soon

[Luckers]

It occurs to me that Mat will not retain his title for long. He got it for marrying the Daughter of the Nine Moons, and she will soon be the Empress.

 

The Raven is the symbol of the Seanchan royal family. Thats why the deathwatch guard and the like where it (remember the seeker mor has it also). Prince of the Ravens has more to do with marrying into that family, i suspect, then any control over the property of that family.

[Rumor]

We've not really been told too much in the books about the roles of the men who marry Seanchan Blood aside from the fact that the marriages are politically strategic in nature or "for the good of the Empire" at least...but he at least appears to hold a high degree of command given the behavior of the bloodwatch guards left behind with him in KoD. I wonder who, besides Tuon, outranks him in Seanchan society now. Would a high lord/lady outrank him by virtue of having been born to the Blood?

[Lews Therin Telamon]

Quote "It occurs to me that Mat will not retain his title for long. He got it for marrying the Daughter of the Nine Moons, and she will soon be the Empress"

 

What makes you think he wont have the title for long? The fact that shes going to be Empress and that they are married surely means he will have the title for a while?

[Rumor]

I think Luckers meant that Mat will get a new title when Tuon becomes Empress...

[algspkr]

I'm with Luckers, Mat will have a new title as husband to the emporess.

 

I wonder who, besides Tuon, outranks him in Seanchan society now. Would a high lord/lady outrank him by virtue of having been born to the Blood?

I doubt that any besides Tuon will out rank Mat. Seanchan law is somewhat odd. Tylin/Beslan where Suroth's equal in the law. Egeanin, and Khirgan were both raised to the blood, and are not looked down on for not having been born nobles. I also doubt that Seanchan law ever took into account the possibility of the emoress or her heir marrying a commoner violently opposed to the empire.

[Luckers]

Mmm. I agree. Though i suspect there will be some who are Mat's equals--Galgan, Beslan, etc.

 

That being said it may be that Mat doesn't have much political power, though Tuon did tell him that he had a gloried place in the Empire now.

[Rational_Solutions]

That gloried place in the empire might be only that he is married to the Daughter of the Nine Moons/Empress.

[algspkr]

Does anyone else see minor sparks flying when Tuon tells Mat he needs to pick a new name upon her becoming emporess, or Mat using Tuon's current name in ignorance of her new one?

[Xeonicus]

Does anyone else see minor sparks flying when Tuon tells Mat he needs to pick a new name upon her becoming emporess' date=' or Mat using Tuon's current name in ignorance of her new one?[/quote']

 

I see sparks flying all the time between them, but its not the cliche way most romances happen. I love reading the Mat/Tuon parts of the story, they're very unique. Tuon is one of my favorite characters, and I'm silently rooting for Mat to obliterate Tuon's seanchan view of the world. Though perhaps Tuon will do the same sort of thing to Mat... he is already fighting alongside the same people he is fighting against, albeit to protect Tuon.

 

I really want to see more development between Mat and Tuon after she takes the throne officially.

[Luckers]

I wish we had been exposed to more of Setelle and Tuon's conversations. I wonder if we are going to see her healed, and that causing problems. Its easy to chain women you've convinced yourself are dogs, but try a women you've genuinely grown to respect.

[Lews Therin Telamon]

Satelle was burnt out i think, so i dont think she should be able to be healed

[Luckers]

We have no evidence one way or another, but i too have wondered whether it would be possible, since the ability was burned out, as oposed to cut. It sounds more complete.

 

That being said, the three sisters Rand stilled were not still in the normal manner, they were 'crushed in fists of spirit' which sounds equally effective.

 

Then theres the fact that RJ could gain greatly from Setelle being able to channel in the meeting between her and Tuon... but meh.

[Guest Winespring Brother]

One reason why people like Galgan or Beslan probably don't outrank Mat is the terms of adress the DW guards give him. As soon as they marry he bacame "highness", which is what Karede calls Tuon once she announces she is no longer under the viel and merely a high lady.

[DemandredFO]

Luckers, I think Setelle can be healed because I remember someone saying in one of the books that stilling/gentling is when it's done on purpose and burnt out is by accident but it's all severing. So they are essentially the same. I'm pretty sure accidental severing can be healed but I could be wrong

[KellySedai]

I don't think RJ would make such a big deal out of him being named "the Prince of Ravens" without that title sticking for quite awhile if not forever. Just because she's Empress now probably will not change that.

 

I never thought about the military implications of that title either, but I think that it does mean he will be the top commander of the Deathwatch Guard. It makes sense.

[Luckers]

Thats only in terminology Demandred. The Aes Sedai likely felt a need to differentiate terms becuase of the need to gentle men, and moreover the need for that to be different. If anything that just made then pay more attention to the nature of it, hence the third name.

 

Nynaeve's descriptiong of Suine and Leane deffinately described something cut, and that understanding was needed for her to build the bridge. Being Burned out would not, i dont think, reuslt in a clean cut.

 

I doubt it about Mat commanding the Deathwatch guards. They ebar the double Raven's because its the sigil of the Seanchan royal family, which they are the property of. Other people connected to the royal family are similarily marked... such as Seekers. Or Mat. The title merely indicats he is a Prince of the Ravens... as in a man who holds a title because of his familial connection to the Ravens.

[ArieBombarie]

Mat and Tuon are also my favourite characters, I take it that Mat will make the connection between the Seacan and Rand (needed for the last battle).

 

Likely Mat will have a major role as general in the last battle and lead also the Seacan (who have all kind of battle gadgets that Mat will know to use).

 

Probably the last battle will have Mat and Perin both lead a large part (maybe both flanks) and has Rand in the main body with Perins father in law(although good chance he dies before to make way for Perin) or another of the great captains.

[Luckers]

I really doubt that there will big one big climactic battle. Fare more likely given numbers and force distribution there will be three. One near Tar Valon, one near Arad Domon and one up north at Shayol Ghoul. There very likely will also be one in the south in Seanchan held lands--an attack out of a waygate.

 

I also dont see Mat leading the Seanchan. Tuon knows where his loyalties are, and she has her own generals. He may offer them suggestions that they will take, but no, he wont be in charge.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Do the Ways go to Seanchan? I don't recall any Wagates being mentioned there, and the Ogier experince on that side of the ocean since the Breaking seems to have been very different ... (no Wandering, no Longing). The Ways, clean and tainted, are a post-Breaking phenomenon ...

[Gentled Ben]

I don't think there's any indication that they go to Seanchan, but they surely go to Seanchan-held lands in the south, such as Ebou dar/Barashta, and that's what I understood Luckers to mean.

[RobertAlexWillis]

:oops: Duh, my bad. I'm still working on this whole "reading" thing ... :roll:

[Luckers]

Yeah... thats totally why your on a site discussing the Wheel of Time... because your bad at reading.

 

Heh. Yeah i did mean ebou dar and the like... specifically i think it will be Amadacia that gets attacked... merely coz that land hasn't featured much.

[grump]

As Empress Tuon not only has Rand to deal with but a full scale revolt back home. It may be a while until she has time to worry about names and such

[DemandredFO]

I have a suspicion that a one-eyed Mat(as seems most likely) will be a great omen to Tuon and allow her to trust him. I believe that will lead to him getting a new name(possibly something close to Odin) and become commander of Seanchen forces. Other names have been corrupted by the turning of the Wheel(Anla, Elzbet, etc.) and I believe that Mats new Seanchen name will become Odin with the turning of the Wheel. Well that's my opinion, feel free to agree or disagree with it :)