What is the Big Unnoticed Thing? (spoilers)

[didymos]

Except:

 

-- The ashandarei is apparently something from one of those past lives Mat partially remembers. But he has no recollection of the ashandarei nor anything special about it. Birgitte is the one who recognizes it, and even she doesn't have anything more to offer.

 

Not sure where you're getting the idea it's from those memories from, and also not sure how this is at all relevant to it being the unnoticed thing.

 

-- The ashandarei doesn't do anything to clue Mat or us in about a special nature. It doesn't land point down on a "foxes and snakes" board. It doesn't point to the Tower like a compass points north. It doesn't hum or vibrate when near the tower.

 

-- It has an inscription apparently added by the 'finns. "Thus is our treaty written; thus is agreement made. Thought is the arrow of time; memory never fades. What was asked is given. The price is paid." I don't see anything in that inscription about special features, or escape, or fending off the 'finns. Do you?

 

Yeah, because it makes so much sense for the 'Finns to provide him with a glaringly obvious means of escape: "In Case Of Emergency, And If No Suitable Exit Is Available, Please Insert Into Nearest Wall." You know: 'cause they so obviously wanted him to succeed.

[haloun]

there are hints about the ashanderei though, and i think it has more to play than just escape from the tower. it parts steel easily. the first time we actually see it in battle we see him stab or slash at a trolloc and the trollocs breastplate opens up in front of the spear, the tower of ghenji is made out of steel that never rusts. there could still be a HUGE part to play in the final book with the ashandarei, and its very special properties.

[Kestrel]

Yeah, because it makes so much sense for the 'Finns to provide him with a glaringly obvious means of escape: "In Case Of Emergency, And If No Suitable Exit Is Available, Please Insert Into Nearest Wall." You know: 'cause they so obviously wanted him to succeed.

My whole point is that we were given no clues or hints that the thing was THE OBVIOUS TOOL we should have recognized in advance. The 'finns gave Mat the memories of men from the past and a tool from the past, but no clue about that tool having any special anti-'finnland qualities.

 

Consider also: The 'finns left Mat hanging from a tree, and it wasn't with a spear shaft wrapped around his neck. No, the 'finnland thing wrapped around Mat's neck was a rope. Maybe the Big Unnoticed Obvious Escape Tool the 'finns gave Mat was supposed to have been that rope? Whatever happened to that rope anyway? IIRC, it was cast aside and forgotten.

[r2debo]

I know everyone has been saying the Big Unnoticed Thing deals with the revelation that Mat's ashanderei would lead him out of the Tower. I get that and it is likely true this was it.

 

However, before Moiraine's rescue I kept thinking the Big Unnoticed Thing was what Aviendha was experiencing in the Waste. What was going to happen to the Aiel after the Last Battle? I simply had not thought of it so to me that was "unnoticed" and "big". What will become of them? The columns told a tale that indicates they will die off because they stick to their Way which will no longer have meaning after the LB. Aviendha struggles with this realization as well. What is the point of carrying on a tradition that no longer had any meaning? It was tradition for the sake of tradition. This to me was the Big Unnoticed Thing.

 

The Aiel are going to be vastly different after the LB. They will no longer be the People of the Dragon, in preparation for the LB. They may still be the People of the Dragon but in a more honorarium perspective, memorializing Rand. However, their lifestyle will be different. If not, according to the columns, they die. If they do change, they are no longer Aiel as we know them. What would they change to? Who knows but they can't go back to the Waste and be any different, so that won't work. They'll have to find a way to incorporate themselves into the lives of the main land. This reminds me of the plight of the American Indian, which I know was an interest of RJ's.

[didymos]

People are taking a fan nickname, BUT, too literally. It's just that: a nickname. It is not how Brandon himself described it. He did not call it "the big unnoticed thing".

[GYLD]

I agree with r2debo, for the most part. The columns were the BUT, I think. Mat's ashandarei I suppose fills the criteria as well, but what Aviendha discovered is an absolute game changer.

[Sigur]

I'm with everyone here on that it is more than likely Matts ashanarei, and that we are looking too deeply into this.

 

However I was though the big unnoticed thing was the last line in Herid Fels letter to Rand about clearing the rubble before you build. He says "ps Don't bring the girl. Too Pretty" Obviously it was taking by Rand and the reader as Herid saying she was a distraction for him, etc. But what if it was a warning? Something to do with Min and the last battle? Something along the lines of Min being the catalyst for the last battle?

 

Don't Bring the girl.

 

I know this is an instance of looking way to deep into something but how cool would it be to hide such an important clue into something like that?

 

(please don't flame me, I know it's ridiculous. Also sorry for bad spelling)

[AutomatedTeller]

I'm with everyone here on that it is more than likely Matts ashanarei, and that we are looking too deeply into this.

 

However I was though the big unnoticed thing was the last line in Herid Fels letter to Rand about clearing the rubble before you build. He says "ps Don't bring the girl. Too Pretty" Obviously it was taking by Rand and the reader as Herid saying she was a distraction for him, etc. But what if it was a warning? Something to do with Min and the last battle? Something along the lines of Min being the catalyst for the last battle?

 

Don't Bring the girl.

 

I know this is an instance of looking way to deep into something but how cool would it be to hide such an important clue into something like that?

 

(please don't flame me, I know it's ridiculous. Also sorry for bad spelling)

 

it's ridiculous, but quite awesome ;)

 

Maybe Herid is just worried that Min won't survive if she goes - she's just too pretty to die.

[Two_Rivers_Tabac]

Burn you Didymos, lol!

 

I'd been reading and re-reading since soon after tEotW was published, but only recently started reading fansites, so learned of tBUT. I'd my money on the Ashanderei (stillthink it's that mind you!), and it being not us but Mat who'd never thought to question it! After all, soon enough in tSR I was thinking, I can add to 3, the Asharanderei makes 4, and where does it come into their foxy equation? But Mat never did question it himself. But now I see how the issue was raised, it is quite clear he was talking about the fans' cluelessness. So that's how it's disappointing for me.

 

Now, as for discussing the actual ToG encounter itself, I think Mat sells himself short. Where he berates himself for saying "you foxes", I doubt the Eelfinn would actually have the authority to bind the Aelfinn anyway, so I think that deal would not have been available. And definitely Farstrider's sacrifice was necessary and meaningful. And I do so much hope that Mat will have the chance to deliver his message, tho I fear the last living Malkieri will be Nynaeve, to whom it may not mean very much.

[Duskfire]

To be fair, when the list was made earlier, one of them was "a previously unknown way for Shadowspawn to Travel." And Lo and Behold, we now have Portal Stones. So while it may not have been the unnoticed thing from the writers viewpoint, it fulfilled the criteria that Dragonmount set forth :P

[didymos]

To be fair, when the list was made earlier, one of them was "a previously unknown way for Shadowspawn to Travel." And Lo and Behold, we now have Portal Stones. So while it may not have been the unnoticed thing from the writers viewpoint, it fulfilled the criteria that Dragonmount set forth :P

 

No, because those were introduced in tGH. The one Brandon spoke of, which acquired the nickname "BUT", appeared first in books 4-6...

 

...and was the ashandarei.

[Duskfire]

To be fair, when the list was made earlier, one of them was "a previously unknown way for Shadowspawn to Travel." And Lo and Behold, we now have Portal Stones. So while it may not have been the unnoticed thing from the writers viewpoint, it fulfilled the criteria that Dragonmount set forth :P

 

No, because those were introduced in tGH. The one Brandon spoke of, which acquired the nickname "BUT", appeared first in books 4-6...

 

...and was the ashandarei.

 

But the dodgy travelling scenerios didn't appear until Book four (the Trollocs in Tear and the Shadowspawn in the Waste) thus while Portal Stones themselves were introduced earlier, the very concept that Trollocs could use them didn't appear until the Shadow Rising :P Regardless, it was the ashandarei, but I just find it interesting that because of what Sanderson said about the Big Unnoticed thing, some of us were correct about Trollocs travelling through Portal Stones.

[OptimusPrime]

Did Brandon say the BUT would definitely be revealed it ToM? The Ashandarei being the BUT has about as much impact as Lans sword killing Shadowspawn, or the fact that people only blink when surprised.

[Frostmuse]

Considering how much hype us fans created around the BUT, there was really no way we wouldn't have been let down. It's like the kid at christmas that keeps wishing for the Most Awesome Toy Ever, and when she finally gets it it turns out to not be so fun after all.

 

It fits. The math didn't add up, he got something he didn't ask for that we knew, and still no dots were connected. It's even kind of neat, in a circular-thinking kind of way.

 

And for the one complaining it was talked about "10-15 years ago", no, it wasn't. I was at r.a.sf.w.r-j for ages, the ashandarei was noted on occasion as an oddity, but no tangible conclusions were drawn. Ironically enough, newbies even got chewed out for asking about it since there was no satisfactory answer to it and that was it. (Then again, newbies got chewed out for posting anything that had been previously discussed in the group, and if they did have an original theory, it was very... assertively shot down if it wasn't a perfectly credible and possible theory. "Good old days"? I don't know, but the fandom is a lot friendlier these days.)

[jsbrads]

IMO it was bigger than Asmodean. But I never cared about Asmodean either. I thought it was cool, but in some ways it still doesn't make sense to me. Mat said he wanted to be away from them, but he didn't use the ashandarei to get away from them in Rhuidean. So it's like they granted that particular request twice.

He said he wanted 'a way out' if memory serves. To the best of my knowledge, they can't draw blood if you come in through the doorway. It stands to reason that they can't take you prisoner as well (else it would've been known that you might not return, and - more likely than not - the same would hold for the Aelfinn). So, he already had a way out assured to him by the terms of the 'governing bargain'. Thus, they had to give him something else, and they went with the Ashandarei. It sits well with me, though I don't know why we should've assumed the Ashandarei came from them and wasn't just something they found this side of the doorway to hang him with.

 

Yeah the inscription on the ashandarei implied it was the third piece of the set

[jsbrads]

The red veiled Aiel appeared significant as well. If they are the Aiel channelers that went to the blight, their may be more dreadlords than we could possibly imagine.

 

Ooo! I wrote a prologue short story for this... I want to post it, where? I don't know

[jsbrads]

It's so annoying how obvious it was as Id been thinking to myself for almost 10 bloomin years "why did they just give him that? The Eelfinn are tight buggers with their bargains why?" Lol

 

If you recall he got more than three answers too

Never bothered me, they made him a soldier, free spear

[jsbrads]

I dont get it. If you ask for something, does it always have to work? If the Eelfin knew that he was going to come back why did they give him the Ashandarei. They could have just let him out the first time, but tehy gave him a permanent way out, that will always work. If they werent always trying to twist the rules then they would have captured him.

 

This is speculation, but I think he was guaranteed a way out by the treaty governing entrance by the redstone doorway. So, when he asked to be away from them, asked them to open a door, the Eelfinn were bound to fulfill that demand in a different way, even if it was redundant.

 

-- dwn

 

(Edited for clarity.)

 

Moiraine and Lanfear entered through the redstone doorway, and they weren't guaranteed a way out. Thought, maybe the destruction they caused to the door negated that, i dunno.

 

How did the doorway melt? That bothered me

[jsbrads]

I don't know why you guys are focusing on the Ashendorai (sp?). I thought it was pretty clear that the tBUT was NOT something about Mat's trip to Finnland and what he got there. I thought that was specifically on the list of things to be eliminated from consideration.

 

It was revealed that someone said it wasn't when it actually was.

 

Has anyone thought of the fact that the key may also work with the Towers of Midnight in the Seanchan Empire? We have been given glimpses of the surrounding area of the TOG is ... and some of the scenery has been very different than the area it is in.It has been said it is in another world/dimension, could there be access to it from the TOMs? If so he has a key... and if he has to enter or exit them from the telrhanriod the ashandorai and the amulet keep the Forsaken, the Dreadlords, the Aes Sedai and others from harming him. I think he is going to enter the dream with Tuon or to get Tuon, he is the Prince of Ravens ... and isn't one of the towers the Tower of the Ravens?

 

Yeah, but that's not one of the towers you visit, that's were they hang royalty

[jsbrads]

Also ashandarei doesn't need to be a terangreal to open a doorway, clearly the laws are different in their world, they ate moraine's ability, they feed on emotions, iron is their kryptonite, music an opiate, fire... hurts their eyes? or something...

They don't channel

Random item generator makes some sense (well not really (no insult intended) but) it fits with the way the way out is now a long straight line, before a short zig zag away and because someone wanted it that way...

[bsmnt23]

Long time lurker, here. The "little Unnoticed thing" people keep referencing is something I was able to pry out of BS at a signing in Alexandria, VA when ToM came out. I was asking him about Rand's new sword he was given when he had taken Bandar Eban. I had thought it was Turok's sword from when Rand had killed him to death back in Falme, but BS shook his head and gave me another guess. The only other significant sword I could remember from the series was Hawkwing's Justice and he told me I'd hit it on the second swing.

It really is just a little, almost insignificant thing, but the markings of the dragons on the sheath would indicate the blade might as well had been LTT from back in the WoP, bringing it full circle to the Dragon Reborn at the LB. So many harkenings back to the Fisher King mythos its funny, but this is probably the main one.

[RedRaider]

The BIG Unnoticed thing was the properties of the dagger from SL that was in Mats pants for a time. Even Angior or whoever called it an old enemy. Maybe We didnt consider the properties it had to combat the shadow from the wounds in Rands side. So what is it and can they harness it and use it effectively again against the DO?

[chinnma]

Regarding Mat's three wishes, am i the only one who got the impression that him being hung was an attempt to free him of aes sedi and the power? sort of a way to say "the only way to be free of them is to be dead" lol

 

Regarding the BUT i always thought it was Narishma pulling callendor out of the stone of tear, effectively naming him as one who would follow after him. Ive searched through a lot of posts recently looking for one on the topic and as far as i could find Luckers was the only one who ever brought it up and it was in an interview with sanderson. Im not going to actualy quote it because honestly i dont have time to find it again (its fight night lol) but it was something like "has Narishma fullfilled his role of following after Rand? RAFO". If there are people discussing it i would appreciate being directed to those posts, if not i guess ill have to start a thread.

[Ananta]

I acknowledge the fact that the ashandarei is the BUT, so no need to dwell on that D:

 

 

 

Now, on a completely different topic that I see is big unnoticed thing. I haven't seen any discussion about this; I skimmed through the 4 pages of threads and didnt notice anything about it.

 

Olver beat the Snakes and Foxes game. Now, I wonder if this is because:

 

1. They miscounted and thus ended up winning the game

2. Mat beat the tower -> The game mechanics somehow magically changed

3. Olver is full of massive ownage

 

 

I can't come up with any other reasons for that to have happened, but if it's simply because Olver miscounted and ended up winning, then it seems sort of redundant to even write about. He might as well have lost yet another time. Or not have played the game at all.

[luftstark]

The weird is that if it was possible to win by luck (like trowing 6 strait), Mat would have won the game, since luck is his realm. If there were a winning strategy, Thom or maybe Talmanes would have seen it. And if there were a trick, Noal would have spotted it.

 

The game is not an object of the power (since it was made by his father. No reason to lie there), so there is little chance it "magically changed".

 

So Olver's victory does sound strange. I have no clue. Maybe it was a miscalculation by Olver, but them, why show us?? Specially with his POV (he thought "finally, i was beginning to think it was impossible to win", or something), so he did not cheated knowing.