Nakomi

[didymos]

I can't remember reading about any trained dreamer which did not know whether she was in T'A'R or not. I find it a little fishy that Avi should not recongnize the dream world.

 

Well, Aviendha is neither dreamwalker nor a Dreamer. I think she's only been in T'A'R once or twice. The one time I can remember is when she meets Egwene in CoT because Elayne's pregnancy made it so she couldn't use the ter'angreal. Still that one time and the fact that she's heard enough about it ought to be sufficient for her to recognize it.

[WhiskyJack]

Dead Verin is not going to end up in TAR. I am pretty sure wheel will gobble her up and recycle into a new body (unborn child). TAR is not meant for human beings even though they like to hang out in TAR.

[mbuehner]

One of the Jenn 'heroes' waiting in TAR like Birgette was?

[Sharaman]

I can't remember reading about any trained dreamer which did not know whether she was in T'A'R or not. I find it a little fishy that Avi should not recongnize the dream world.

 

Well, Aviendha is neither dreamwalker nor a Dreamer. I think she's only been in T'A'R once or twice. The one time I can remember is when she meets Egwene in CoT because Elayne's pregnancy made it so she couldn't use the ter'angreal. Still that one time and the fact that she's heard enough about it ought to be sufficient for her to recognize it.

She does notice oddities of time passage - microwave cooking, the mysterious appearance of coals, etc.

The weird thing is that she doesn't seem to think too hard about it.

Nor does her spidey sense of danger tick off - very odd for an Aiel trained as MotS who has just been thinking the 3-fold land is dangerous.

It does make me wonder if she was under mild hypnosis (aka Compulsion) or experiencing a Dream where her sense of reality was skilfully manipulated.

[Caedn of the Taardad]

I don't recall if it was here or Theoryland, but someone offered the possibility of Nakomi being a dead Verin, speaking to Aviendha in T'A'R. Ironically this also makes her a ghost, and she could've been Jenn Aeil once too, but that's not really the point.

 

It might not violate the Hero precepts, since Birgitte's quote about it in TSR is "According to the precepts, we may speak to none who know they are in Tel'aran'rhiod." And Aviehdna certainly doesn't think she's in T'A'R.

 

 

I like this... Verin Sedai: Hero (perhaps even newly) bound to the wheel of time, spun out time and again to infiltrate the dark one's followers.

 

A tad more on the unlikely side, but I could see it. I'll have to share this one with my local fan group.

 

May you find Water and Shade.

[WhiskyJack]

One of the Jenn 'heroes' waiting in TAR like Birgette was?

 

 

There is no such thing..There are heroes of Horn and that's about it.

[Coltsfan]

If Nakomi was a wetlander in disguise, then why would she ask if the wetlands were as glorious as so many say? That part alone eliminates, all the Aes Sedai, the Wise Ones who crossed the dragon wall, and all the Foresaken.IMHO

[f3llyn]

Well if you're pretending to be someone you're not you're not going to ask questions the obvious way..

[didymos]

If Nakomi was a wetlander in disguise, then why would she ask if the wetlands were as glorious as so many say? That part alone eliminates, all the Aes Sedai, the Wise Ones who crossed the dragon wall, and all the Foresaken.IMHO

 

Yeah, because people in cover identities always make sure people are aware that they know things the cover ID shouldn't, and they never feign ignorance to aid the deception.

[nolirion]

If it was Verin , why did she do it ?

[mbuehner]

One of the Jenn 'heroes' waiting in TAR like Birgette was?

 

 

There is no such thing..There are heroes of Horn and that's about it.

 

Who's to say one of the Jenn couldn't be a Horn Hero?

[Maji]

It seems rather unlikely that Aviendha is in Tel'aran'rhiod when Verin visits. She is familiar enough with the World of Dreams that she would most likely recognize if she were in there. She's no expert by any means but her time with the wise ones and with Elayne, it just doesn't seem to plausible. Verin was very adept at leading others down the path they needed to take all the while appearing to be oblivious to the world around her. She's already notorious in the books (even if the characters are unaware save Egwene) for her letters and using her last few days to give the Light a chance against the forces of the Dark One. Verin has already shown quite a bit of interest in the Aiel, Terez wrote a wonderful and well thought out theory on Nakomi, summarizes many reasons why she is possibly Verin

 

http://theoryland.com/theories.php?func=5&rec=144&theo=2771

[cgilbertmc]

Just listing some possibilities.

Who is she?

1) She's a channeler. In that case, she's masking her ability and she may also be using MoM to conceal her appearance.

She could have Travelled, solving the mysterious appearance/disappearance

If she is actually a "he", or a saidin channeler, Avi would not notice channeling ability anyway

Against that, she performs various physical actions, that would disturb a MoM unless it was very close to her actual appearance.

This assumes we're not seeing it all in TAR.

 

2) She's a manifestation of Avi's mind - unlikely because Avi isn't nuts

3) She is one of the many ghosts that are now walking around - indeterminate, we've never seen them interact with people

 

How did she appear?

1) Portal stone - Avi camps next to a "tremendous stone". Against that Avi does know portal stones - she found the one in Tear.

2) TAR - no sign that Avi was asleep and the sky didn't go weird as it seems to for other TAR visitors in ToM

3) Travel - see above

 

Is she Aiel? She doesn't give sept or clan name, which is unusual.

But Avi doesn't seem to question Nakomi's Aiel-ness.

So she's probably Aiel or certainly knows Aiel well enough to pass for one.

Very difficult to do.

 

She could be a Shaido WO - they are heading for Rhuidean as well to shepherd Benduin.

We've seen Melindhra conceal her clan. Another Shaido might.

Against that, she doesn't dress like WO. She is also alone.

 

Nakomi may also be from the distaff side of the mysterious red-veiled lot, assuming they're Aiel.

 

Are her motives benign?

Most difficult to judge.

She tries to force Avi to think about the Aiel future.

No overt hostility in any event.

She may be trying to influence Avi to take some sort of long-term decision that will have negative consequences.

 

Was she waiting for Avi?

Tough to imagine she wasn't. Too much of a coincidence otherwise for them to meet.

 

My theory is that she is a DF but I have little to go on.

 

To me it hearkens back to the earlier books. Nakomi poses philosophical questions to get Avi to think, not react. Could she be a Jenn Aiel ghost?

[aan'allein]

My initial thought was that Nakomi was related to the Jenn Aiel in some way shape or form. Possibilities include "thelast of the Jenn" that has been waiting for her, something to do with a portal stone or soem manifestation of Rhuidean.

 

Verin isn't something I considered because I don't recall her and Aviendha having any significant interaction, Nakomi has a great deal of intimiate knowledge of Aiel culture that may be beyond Verin and Verun was more concerned more "physical" concerns liek the BA and attack on Caemlyn.

 

I also don't buy the DF/Forsaken angle because it seems to farfetched.

 

Wise ones may be a possibility but some of the oddities about Nakomi are not consistent with that theory.

[Caedn of the Taardad]

It seems rather unlikely that Aviendha is in Tel'aran'rhiod when Verin visits. She is familiar enough with the World of Dreams that she would most likely recognize if she were in there. She's no expert by any means but her time with the wise ones and with Elayne, it just doesn't seem to plausible. Verin was very adept at leading others down the path they needed to take all the while appearing to be oblivious to the world around her. She's already notorious in the books (even if the characters are unaware save Egwene) for her letters and using her last few days to give the Light a chance against the forces of the Dark One. Verin has already shown quite a bit of interest in the Aiel, Terez wrote a wonderful and well thought out theory on Nakomi, summarizes many reasons why she is possibly Verin

 

http://theoryland.com/theories.php?func=5&rec=144&theo=2771

 

It does seem to detail my own thoughts rather nicely, and the direct references are quite useful. Thank you Terez, for a wonderful and well thought out summation indeed. Of particular interest was the comparison between Nakomi's and Egwene's initial meetings with Avi, I hadn't seen that before.

 

Thinking of Verin tied to the Wheel is certainly better then imagining her caught in the DO's claws, though I think that possibility seems rather less likely then the scene occurring before Verin's death.

May you find Water and Shade.

[Shoulderthumper]

Forgive me if I am way off base here, as I certainly am not as familiar with all the minutiae as many of you are, but here a question I have, that I think may be related.

 

Do we ever figure out who the old woman is that helps Egwene early on in TAR in the Stone of Tear? She seemed to be a character that arose out of nowhere and then was never discussed further, very similar to Nakomi, only now she appears in the flesh.

 

Obviously this can be dispelled by the explanation for who that original character was, and clearly I missed that one.

"Sylvie" reappears in the epilogue of ToM. Nowadays she's called Cyndane.

 

Sorry I missed that. That was Lanfear? Why was she being so helpful to Egwene or was that simply part of the trap?

[pattikins]

I am probably just revealing my ignorance here, but my first reaction to Nakomi was that she was Rand's birth mom.

 

I just keep expecting to see her pop up, and she would have an interest in helping Avi and all the Aiel.

 

Any reasons this could not be?

[Terez]

It seems rather unlikely that Aviendha is in Tel'aran'rhiod when Verin visits. She is familiar enough with the World of Dreams that she would most likely recognize if she were in there. She's no expert by any means but her time with the wise ones and with Elayne, it just doesn't seem to plausible. Verin was very adept at leading others down the path they needed to take all the while appearing to be oblivious to the world around her. She's already notorious in the books (even if the characters are unaware save Egwene) for her letters and using her last few days to give the Light a chance against the forces of the Dark One. Verin has already shown quite a bit of interest in the Aiel, Terez wrote a wonderful and well thought out theory on Nakomi, summarizes many reasons why she is possibly Verin

 

http://theoryland.co...c=144&theo=2771

 

It does seem to detail my own thoughts rather nicely, and the direct references are quite useful. Thank you Terez, for a wonderful and well thought out summation indeed. Of particular interest was the comparison between Nakomi's and Egwene's initial meetings with Avi, I hadn't seen that before.

 

Thinking of Verin tied to the Wheel is certainly better then imagining her caught in the DO's claws, though I think that possibility seems rather less likely then the scene occurring before Verin's death.

May you find Water and Shade.

I'm glad you guys liked it! I agree that it's more likely to have happened before Verin's death.

[Cirin]

Hmm... I'm afraid I can't necessarily say for sure who she is or where she comes from, although when Aviendha asks her what sept she's from, her answer is interesting. "'I am far from my roof,' the woman said, wistful, 'yet not far at all. Perhaps it is far from me. I cannot answer your question, apprentice, for it is not my place to give this truth."

 

I don't really see her as being Verin, since I think that would be assigning to Verin things that weren't really intended to be played by her, if that makes any sense. She has done her part with those she must. I think Nakomi, in some way, is very much tied to the Aiel and their way of life. Indeed, the questions she poses in many ways reflect upon the later visions of Aviendha in the pillars. She speaks of an end to the fighting, of the toh they had incurred for picking up weapons finally paid off by their part in the Last Battle. I would say it almost sounds like she thinks the Aiel should return to the lifestyle they knew before. Aviendha's visions also seem to suggest that it is the Aiel's desire to keep fighting, to keep being Aiel, that lead to trouble in the future. I think these two ideas are linked.

 

Who is she? Not sure. But I don't think she's a Darkfriend or Forsaken, or even Verin. I think she is something different, in some ways. Something to do with the Aiel, Avendesora, the Way of the Leaf... maybe even the Song that the Tinkers are looking for. I think the conclusions that Aviendha arrives at from the questions that she posed will have lasting consequences on the Aiel and the future.

[didymos]

Any reasons this could not be?

 

Yeah: she's dead.

 

Also: giant Comic Sans is never a good idea.

[JakeBarnes]

I didn't get the feeling that was Verin at all. In fact, after reading the passage a second and third time, I get a very strong feeling that Nakomi is NOT Verin.

 

Unfortunately, I have no alternate idea to put forward at this time.

[Bob T Dwarf]

As I said somewhere, maybe earlier in this thread, reality is breaking down. In the words of a prophecy, "The veil of parting is pierced."

 

That might only mean the division between the living and the dead, which we have seen examples of, but it could mean the division between the waking world and the world of dreams. It could even mean the divisions between the "real world" and the mirror worlds.

 

IOW, you may no longer require a Portal Stone or dream ter'angreal to get from there to here or vice versa.

 

Since the mirror worlds reflect all possible outcomes, there must be one where the Jenn did not die out. If the boundaries or borders are being pierced, it could be a Jenn from that mirror world. Possibly not even realizing she's not in her own reality, although the "it may be far from me" implies that she knows something isn't right.

 

The way Aviendha perceives the encounter is reminiscent of how Verin compelled the sisters after Dumai's Wells, though.

 

If her identity is important the next and last book should tell us who she is. Otherwise it's going to remain something to speculate about for all time.

[didymos]

Sorry I missed that. That was Lanfear? Why was she being so helpful to Egwene or was that simply part of the trap?

 

You have to pay attention to her dialogue. The giveaway line is:

 

"Plots," [silvie] said, as if to herself. "All of them pretending to serve the Great Lord, all the while plotting and planning to regain what they lost. Each one thinking he or she is the only one plotting. Ishamael is a fool!"

 

Especially her apparent familiarity with the Forsaken and her use of "Great Lord". Just before that, talking about "her" face, she says:

 

"It serves me, when I need it, as good as a prettier."

 

Put that together with Lanfear's fondness for disguises (Selene, "Else", Keille Shaogi), which often look nothing like her, and her in-disguise meddling with other Rand-connected folk in the same book (Mat). That and the fact that she boots Egwene out of T'A'R by grabbing the stone ring and ripping it off its cord. Not knowledge you'd expect some random old woman to have.

[pattikins]

Any reasons this could not be?

 

Yeah: she's dead.

 

Also: giant Comic Sans is never a good idea.

 

I was just determined to appear ignorant, I guess.

 

Now wait a minute. . . are we really positively sure that Tigraine/Shaiel died on Dragonmount? Cold climate, loss of blood, possible temporary loss of consciousness, slowed heart rate. . . and you must admit that WOT characters have come back to life with much more evidence of being dead, really and truly dead, than this. And Shaiel is very intriguing.

 

I begin my research in tEoTW: ch. 6

Tam: ". . . gave birth there alone, before she died of her wounds. . ." Never describes making sure she was dead.

ch. 16

Rand: "He said he found me."

 

Not conclusive, but this (ch. 16) is where I must have begun my kooky expectation of reading about Tigraine in the flesh wandering somewhere in the waste someday. Like her brother Luc in the Blight, but with good intentions. This is the only truly offbeat theory I have ever latched onto. I think we each get one, right? I will not push this point again until/unless it proves to be true, so relax. And then, oh boy. . . .

 

In addition, Nakomi comes across as motherly to me, wears non-Aiel clothing but identifies with Aiel, calls the Dark One Sightblinder (so she's probably not a darkfriend), has furrowed skin like she has maybe been out in the elements for years, is the right age, is traveling far (wandering?) and seems eager for the Aiel to serve the Dragon and not return to the Waste. She cannot channel saidar. These are all clues, and I'm sure the last book will divulge all about her. Great mystery!

[f3llyn]

If she wasn't dead why would she have left her son without seeking him out, especially since she already left one behind before? And this one from a husband she actually loved. Not that she could have had any idea where he was taken off to, I guess. And then let her husband go off to the blight to die? It doesn't fit to me. Unless there was more to the foretelling that Gitara told to her than we've heard..?

 

And then why would she feel the need to hide her identity from Aviendha? But on the other hand she might be one of the few people that actually has the knowledge and foresight to confront Aviendha in this manner. But it still doesn't take into consideration the other oddities.