The Black Tower

[Cut Strand]

Kash.

[graendalzooescapee]

I really don't see how Taim and Moridin can be the same person.

 

#1: They look nothing alike. Moridin is blond and looks rather like Rand. Taim is dark. Way too many people are in close contact with Taim for him to get away with Mask of Mirrors. He's not aloof the way Semirhage's alter ego was.

 

#2: Their personalities are nothing alike. Moridin is an intellectual, quite cool-headed, and we've never seen evidence of a Taim-sized ego in him either.

 

So, working for Moridin, pretty obvious. IS Moridin, unlikely.

[Second Chance]

We also have a POV from a rogue Asha'man claiming to recieve orders from both Demmy and Taim to kill Rand.

This is not an issue from ToM, but this strikes me as wrong (even though RJ wrote it) given Demandred being all 'Nobody kills al'Thor but me' to the point of threatening to kill another Forsaken who does so.

 

P.S. Foreshadowing for Demmy 'protecting' Rand from Moridin in some way, so he can try to get the kill?

[dwn]

Taim must have gotten the dream spike after Grady visits his family and Ny gets Lan's bond. they both traveled there. what i dont understand is why didn't Ny ask Myrella about them not communicating w/ the WT? she totally blanked out on that.

 

Grady wasn't able to open a gateway to the Black Tower (ToM, A Teaching Chamber, 693).

 

Nynaeve either Travelled there before the dreampike was set up (most likely), or Myrelle's camp was outside the effect.

 

-- dwn

[Phariah]

Taim must have gotten the dream spike after Grady visits his family and Ny gets Lan's bond. they both traveled there. what i dont understand is why didn't Ny ask Myrella about them not communicating w/ the WT? she totally blanked out on that.

 

Grady wasn't able to open a gateway to the Black Tower (ToM, A Teaching Chamber, 693).

 

Nynaeve either Travelled there before the dreampike was set up (most likely), or Myrelle's camp was outside the effect.

 

-- dwn

i am not talking about that attepmt to go to the BT. i am saying before that when he asked to visit his family and there were no problems in the camp. nothing was said if he did or didn't go. so my take on it is that he did till i am told different.

 

Grady had asked way before that on the road before the Whitecloaks. they were sending out scouts to Cairhainen an Caemlyn. if he wasn't able to get to BT than he would have said something. there was no trouble and he had just regained his health. seems plausible he could have gone and come back.

 

especially since Perrin's timeline is far behind Ny's at this point. Tam hasn't been brought to speak w/ Rand yet. also Pg 678 Androl is formin tiny gateways to cut leather. if the dreamspike was up it would prevent the weave from even forming.

[alexander234]

When was Logain last seen? Disappointed that he didn't make an appearance in ToM.

[seasnake]

Man I'd like someone to get the timeline's up to date for each POV, learning where the characters are in relation to one another, time wise, would be so useful before AMoL

[Sharaman]

Taim must have gotten the dream spike after Grady visits his family and Ny gets Lan's bond. they both traveled there. what i dont understand is why didn't Ny ask Myrella about them not communicating w/ the WT? she totally blanked out on that.

 

Grady wasn't able to open a gateway to the Black Tower (ToM, A Teaching Chamber, 693).

 

Nynaeve either Travelled there before the dreampike was set up (most likely), or Myrelle's camp was outside the effect.

 

-- dwn

i am not talking about that attepmt to go to the BT. i am saying before that when he asked to visit his family and there were no problems in the camp. nothing was said if he did or didn't go. so my take on it is that he did till i am told different.

 

Grady had asked way before that on the road before the Whitecloaks. they were sending out scouts to Cairhainen an Caemlyn. if he wasn't able to get to BT than he would have said something. there was no trouble and he had just regained his health. seems plausible he could have gone and come back.

 

especially since Perrin's timeline is far behind Ny's at this point. Tam hasn't been brought to speak w/ Rand yet. also Pg 678 Androl is formin tiny gateways to cut leather. if the dreamspike was up it would prevent the weave from even forming.

Graendal was given the D-Spike and Slayer's aid the day after Natrin's Barrow. At that stage, Moridin had apparently handed out the other one as well.

The D-Spike was activated by Slayer around 3 days before Veins of Gold when Slayer started experimenting with it on the Jehannah road.

Grady was given permission to go to BT before that.

Nyn went out to the BT on VoG+2 with no apparent problems. However, we've been told (WH prologue) that the BT is very large. Myrelle may be outside the limit.

[dwn]

Taim must have gotten the dream spike after Grady visits his family and Ny gets Lan's bond. they both traveled there. what i dont understand is why didn't Ny ask Myrella about them not communicating w/ the WT? she totally blanked out on that.

 

Grady wasn't able to open a gateway to the Black Tower (ToM, A Teaching Chamber, 693).

 

Nynaeve either Travelled there before the dreampike was set up (most likely), or Myrelle's camp was outside the effect.

 

-- dwn

i am not talking about that attepmt to go to the BT. i am saying before that when he asked to visit his family and there were no problems in the camp. nothing was said if he did or didn't go. so my take on it is that he did till i am told different.

 

Grady had asked way before that on the road before the Whitecloaks. they were sending out scouts to Cairhainen an Caemlyn. if he wasn't able to get to BT than he would have said something. there was no trouble and he had just regained his health. seems plausible he could have gone and come back.

 

especially since Perrin's timeline is far behind Ny's at this point. Tam hasn't been brought to speak w/ Rand yet. also Pg 678 Androl is formin tiny gateways to cut leather. if the dreamspike was up it would prevent the weave from even forming.

Graendal was given the D-Spike and Slayer's aid the day after Natrin's Barrow. At that stage, Moridin had apparently handed out the other one as well.

The D-Spike was activated by Slayer around 3 days before Veins of Gold when Slayer started experimenting with it on the Jehannah road.

Grady was given permission to go to BT before that.

Nyn went out to the BT on VoG+2 with no apparent problems. However, we've been told (WH prologue) that the BT is very large. Myrelle may be outside the limit.

 

As I read it Grady was not given permission until after they arrived in Andor.

 

First they had to wait for Seonid, Balwer, etc. to return from Cairhien. Then the standoff with the Whitecloaks became tense and Perrin would have needed him nearby. Then the dreamspike blocked all gateways. Then they saved Galad and Travelled to Andor. Then Perrin dealt with Elayne. Finally, with everything stable, Perrin gave Grady permission to return to the Black Tower, yet the gateway wouldn't open.

 

If I've missed a passage stating that Grady went to the BT, though, please cite it.

 

-- dwn

[Sharaman]

Taim must have gotten the dream spike after Grady visits his family and Ny gets Lan's bond. they both traveled there. what i dont understand is why didn't Ny ask Myrella about them not communicating w/ the WT? she totally blanked out on that.

 

Grady wasn't able to open a gateway to the Black Tower (ToM, A Teaching Chamber, 693).

 

Nynaeve either Travelled there before the dreampike was set up (most likely), or Myrelle's camp was outside the effect.

 

-- dwn

i am not talking about that attepmt to go to the BT. i am saying before that when he asked to visit his family and there were no problems in the camp. nothing was said if he did or didn't go. so my take on it is that he did till i am told different.

 

Grady had asked way before that on the road before the Whitecloaks. they were sending out scouts to Cairhainen an Caemlyn. if he wasn't able to get to BT than he would have said something. there was no trouble and he had just regained his health. seems plausible he could have gone and come back.

 

especially since Perrin's timeline is far behind Ny's at this point. Tam hasn't been brought to speak w/ Rand yet. also Pg 678 Androl is formin tiny gateways to cut leather. if the dreamspike was up it would prevent the weave from even forming.

Graendal was given the D-Spike and Slayer's aid the day after Natrin's Barrow. At that stage, Moridin had apparently handed out the other one as well.

The D-Spike was activated by Slayer around 3 days before Veins of Gold when Slayer started experimenting with it on the Jehannah road.

Grady was given permission to go to BT before that.

Nyn went out to the BT on VoG+2 with no apparent problems. However, we've been told (WH prologue) that the BT is very large. Myrelle may be outside the limit.

 

As I read it Grady was not given permission until after they arrived in Andor.

 

First they had to wait for Seonid, Balwer, etc. to return from Cairhien. Then the standoff with the Whitecloaks became tense and Perrin would have needed him nearby. Then the dreamspike blocked all gateways. Then they saved Galad and Travelled to Andor. Then Perrin dealt with Elayne. Finally, with everything stable, Perrin gave Grady permission to return to the Black Tower, yet the gateway wouldn't open.

 

If I've missed a passage stating that Grady went to the BT, though, please cite it.

 

-- dwn

I don't think Grady actually went - you're right. But he did have a window when he could have gone.

[Astus]

It was nice to finally get to see some BT action. I mean, we've got some slice of life action from Samitsu but we've yet to really get one from an Ashaman (or Dedicated. Whatever lol.)

Some creepy stuff is going down and Taim is still a douche.

[nolirion]

The Asha'man and Aes'Sedai being turn to the shadow are puppet moving with the will of the DO and that's frightening .

[rambling]

I have a feeling that the BT timeline we're shown is earlier than the Caemlyn assault. But I need to re-read once.

 

It would be convenient if the moment Olver wins his game of Snakes & Foxes is the same moment that Mat & Co get out of the tower.

[Moon Sedai]

It would be convenient if the moment Olver wins his game of Snakes & Foxes is the same moment that Mat & Co get out of the tower.

 

 

I think that is implied.

Actually, now that the real Snake/foxes have been defeated, i wouldn't be surprised if more kids start beating the game.

 

 

[Lynander]

First off, Taim is not Moridin. THey don't look alike or act alike. Also, Rand knows what Moridin looks like. He also knows what Taim looks like. I think he'd have figured taht out already.

 

Felt bad for Tarna and Logain's Asha'man. Although, I was hoping it'd be used on characters a little more impactfull - like Alivia or something like that.

 

When is the last time we've seen Logain? is it when he's talking to the Sea Folk? Or helping rand kill a bunch of Trollocs?

[Maji]

 

As I read it Grady was not given permission until after they arrived in Andor.

 

First they had to wait for Seonid, Balwer, etc. to return from Cairhien. Then the standoff with the Whitecloaks became tense and Perrin would have needed him nearby. Then the dreamspike blocked all gateways. Then they saved Galad and Travelled to Andor. Then Perrin dealt with Elayne. Finally, with everything stable, Perrin gave Grady permission to return to the Black Tower, yet the gateway wouldn't open.

 

If I've missed a passage stating that Grady went to the BT, though, please cite it.

 

-- dwn

 

Myrelle and co are outside the gates of the Black Tower, I do not know if it specifies how far outside the gates they are camped but I know the camp is much larger than the one sent from Pevara and friends. They may even be outside sight from the tower walls, I don't have the book handy to double check. I'm thinking that their camp is just beyond the range of the dreamspike plus the group is pretty small compared to how many men are in the BT. Taim probably isn't too threatened by just leaving that group alone for now.

[Lightseeker]

Nasty scenes to say the least. I'm a big fan of both Pevara and Tarna and the latters fate was really sad. The subject of weather turned chennelers can be turned back will probably find a new life around this place...

 

I'm as baffled by the Logain absence as anyone else. He should play a role in the last book though. Specially considering Mins viewings.

[JSSheridan]

My theory about the 2nd dreamspike is that it gets captured while Rand cleans up the BT. Then draw the Seanchan into a battle. Drop the dreamspike on them and spring a surrender or die trap. The Seanchan have no vision on how to use the OP; they only see it as a cudgel.

[1eejit]

Having forgotten where Myrelle was located I was sure Nyn was heading to the BT to try and teach sisters there to cure the Madness. No such luck. Sigh.

[capuga]

The Black Tower scenes were creepy and tension filled. It was a bit terrifying and I loved it. One of the plots I'm most looking forward to in AMoL.

 

I'm also glad to see that the Shadow is starting to build up a good force (it seems the majority of Asha'man are for the Shadow now) of channelers. Seeing how easily a small group of channelers can destroy a Trolloc army made me think the fight should be easy for the light since their channelers far outnumbered the Shadow's. Glad to see that balance shift a little so we can get some crazy battles in the next book.

[Cut Strand]

*cough* *hack* *wheeze* *flem* Kash *cough cough*

 

Pardon me.

 

As Androl wondered: "Where did Taim find Kash, and how did he [Kash] get so strong so fast?"

[1eejit]

*cough* *hack* *wheeze* *flem* Kash *cough cough*

 

Pardon me.

 

As Androl wondered: "Where did Taim find Kash, and how did he [Kash] get so strong so fast?"

 

A pre-cooked Dreadlord possibly, rather than a Chosen.

[Loophole]

*cough* *hack* *wheeze* *flem* Kash *cough cough*

 

Pardon me.

 

As Androl wondered: "Where did Taim find Kash, and how did he [Kash] get so strong so fast?"

 

A pre-cooked Dreadlord possibly, rather than a Chosen.

 

Remember the red veiled Aiel at the end in the epilogue, I believe these are channelers and proves the idea that the aiel men that started channeling and going to the blight were getting turned.

 

Also makes the "there is a ______ in the blight" thing likely to be a city, where these turned men, their offspring and DF's would be living. They may have a lot of turned Aiel channelers and their offspring.

 

Also this is where Damandred is ruling! :D

[1eejit]

 

Also this is where Damandred is ruling! :D

Heh. However 'my rule is secure' seems rather redundant if taking over a colony of dyed in the wool Dreadlords.

[Loophole]

 

Also this is where Damandred is ruling! :D

Heh. However 'my rule is secure' seems rather redundant if taking over a colony of dyed in the wool Dreadlords.

 

You think? most dark friends and channelers are very selfish and they arent really team players. I cant imagine they would of just fallen into line at the drop of a hat.