Quick Question - Is Lan a Blademaster Bc He Killed Toram Raitin?

[dovien]

I don't remember Bryne being mentioned as a Blademaster before TGS. So far as I know he's a capable swordsman and no more.

 

Is Agelmar's sword ever described in his scenes?

Not that I can find.

 

No. It was Lan, in Far Madding, with the sword of the Malkieri kings.

It's like Wheel of Time Clue.

LOL

 

In Randland, I am not sure right now who can actually beat Lan in a sword fight even though he is an old man.

I don't think anyone living could beat Lan.

 

I'd suggest adding Ishamael to the list.

[Duskfire]

Darlin Sisnera is a blademaster. Mat fought and beat him in the Stone of Tear. Be`lal and Sammael are too, I believe, out of the Forsaken.

 

It wouldnt surprise me if some of the generals of the Borderlands are blademasters. Just seems like it would be a standard thing. Agelmar Jagad is pretty badass, he would almost certainly be one.

 

I don't think anyone living could beat Lan.

 

I'd suggest adding Ishamael to the list.

 

I actually believe if they had a reason to, Rand or Mat could give him a run. If Lan walked up to Olver or Tuon and stabbed them, Mat having a reason to fight would be scary indeed.

[Bob T Dwarf]

I'd suggest adding Ishamael to the list.

 

I actually believe if they had a reason to, Rand or Mat could give him a run. If Lan walked up to Olver or Tuon and stabbed them, Mat having a reason to fight would be scary indeed.

 

Doubt it re Ishy. If Lan laid a finger on her Butterfinger... err Tuon, Mat wouldn't have to do anything. Selucia would off Lan in a heartbeat.

[NetSlider]

Lan carries his ancestral power built sword. Obviously the ancestor who received it first wasn't Blademaster. In Randland, I am not sure right now who can actually beat Lan in a sword fight even though he is an old man.

 

Well, I think Gawyn can beat him now. I'm sure there are others but we just don't know about them (but very few). Hell, Mat might even do it with a quarterstaff

[dovien]

I don't think anyone living could beat Lan.

I actually believe if they had a reason to, Rand or Mat could give him a run. If Lan walked up to Olver or Tuon and stabbed them, Mat having a reason to fight would be scary indeed.

 

I was about to post and say "I meant '...beat Lan with a sword.'" but then I realised; I don't care who you pit him against - Lan just plain wins.

[Jon Paul]

I would wager that Demandred isn't, nor is Moridin...

 

Ishamael I can understand.. but Demandred? It's very likely that Demandred is Blademaster material.

 

Is Agelmar's sword ever described in his scenes?

 

A Great Sword after the Shienaran fashion, no Heron described on it, though he very well could be up to the standard.

[jdbond]

Lan carries his ancestral power built sword. Obviously the ancestor who received it first wasn't Blademaster. In Randland, I am not sure right now who can actually beat Lan in a sword fight even though he is an old man.

 

Well, I think Gawyn can beat him now. I'm sure there are others but we just don't know about them (but very few). Hell, Mat might even do it with a quarterstaff

 

 

I doubt it. Gawyn did beat 2 warders (prolly at the same time in tGS) and one of them was a blademaster who took Lan down once or twice. That doesn't actually give enough measure of Gawyn's skill against Lan. Gawyn probably can match Rand in skill. Ofcourse Rand is an Aiel and he can kill Gawyn with his bare hands;)

[jdbond]

LTT and Belal were true blademasters, probably better than anyone alive in Randland.

[Jon Paul]

LTT and Belal were true blademasters, probably better than anyone alive in Randland.

 

It helps that they sort of rediscovered the sport! Sammael was also an accomplished swordsman I believe, and I don think it's a stretch to include Demandred in there. Though I think their rankings would have been a lot more formal and organised than simply "Blademaster" in our current age, but I'd place those four in the top tier. I would even include Moridin with some form of rank in there, as the sword would have been seen as good exercise and there's no reason why Moridin would eschew exercise. We know he's good with a staff after all :D!

[NetSlider]

Lan carries his ancestral power built sword. Obviously the ancestor who received it first wasn't Blademaster. In Randland, I am not sure right now who can actually beat Lan in a sword fight even though he is an old man.

 

Well, I think Gawyn can beat him now. I'm sure there are others but we just don't know about them (but very few). Hell, Mat might even do it with a quarterstaff

 

 

I doubt it. Gawyn did beat 2 warders (prolly at the same time in tGS) and one of them was a blademaster who took Lan down once or twice. That doesn't actually give enough measure of Gawyn's skill against Lan. Gawyn probably can match Rand in skill. Ofcourse Rand is an Aiel and he can kill Gawyn with his bare hands;)

 

Taking two warders at once and one of them was close behind Land when he was younger! Rand, as good as he is, never really faced a true blade master since tGH, for all we know he wouldn't stand chance against Tam. All i'm saying that the only one we saw fight that looks to be the best right now is Gawyn. Even Brin said that he was always the talented one.

[NetSlider]

LTT and Belal were true blademasters, probably better than anyone alive in Randland.

 

I dont think that. They picked up tame sport of swordplay that old books described. They might have been good I they didn't have thousands of years of tradition to perfect. So, I don't think they would be that great in comparison to today's blade masters.

[jdbond]

LTT and Belal were true blademasters, probably better than anyone alive in Randland.

 

I dont think that. They picked up tame sport of swordplay that old books described. They might have been good I they didn't have thousands of years of tradition to perfect. So, I don't think they would be that great in comparison to today's blade masters.

 

 

In tDR, Rand goes against Belal and gets thoroughly humiliated. And then he says that Belal was a true Blademaster, which means so was LTT.

The idea of "sword fight" being a tame sport was in a age where power ruled every aspect of society and powerful channelers were dime a dozen. Compared to power based fight, sword fight indeed was very tame.

[Jon Paul]

Taking two warders at once and one of them was close behind Land when he was younger! Rand, as good as he is, never really faced a true blade master since tGH, for all we know he wouldn't stand chance against Tam. All i'm saying that the only one we saw fight that looks to be the best right now is Gawyn. Even Brin said that he was always the talented one.

 

And what is Toram Riatin, how is he not a true Blademaster? Lan is the best swordsman of his time. He is consistently ranked as the best of the warders which means the best of the best. Toram Riatin duelled Lan in Far Madding and wounded Lan. Before Rand chased Fain he noted that both Toram and Lan flowed into the sword-forms gracefully so I doubt it was a lucky shot, Toram is no slouch with a sword.

 

And Rand held his own against him, though he was eventually put on the back leg.

 

I would say that without a doubt Lan is the top dog with the sword, followed by a tie between pre-KoD Rand and Galad. I don't know who I would place third because I don't know how good Gawyn really is. Did he not stab warders in the back during the fighting in the Tower? No doubt he can use his sword to an exceptional degree, I just don't think he really ranks with the likes of Galad, Ituralde and Lan.

[Jon Paul]

I dont think that. They picked up tame sport of swordplay that old books described. They might have been good I they didn't have thousands of years of tradition to perfect. So, I don't think they would be that great in comparison to today's blade masters.

 

They themselves had centuries of their own personal lives to perfect it. And yes the sport was tame in that it wasn't to the death. Their forms however should be no less effective as not only did they have centuries to figure it all out, it was all put into practice in the most destructive war in human history: the War of Power that brought the Age of Legends crashing down.

 

Lan's 47. Lews Therin was 500+. Who's going to perfect their swordsmanship, really?

 

In tGH, Rand goes against Belal and gets thoroughly humiliated. And then he says that Belal was a true Blademaster, which means so was LTT.

 

It was in The Dragon Reborn actually :D!

[jdbond]

Lan carries his ancestral power built sword. Obviously the ancestor who received it first wasn't Blademaster. In Randland, I am not sure right now who can actually beat Lan in a sword fight even though he is an old man.

 

Well, I think Gawyn can beat him now. I'm sure there are others but we just don't know about them (but very few). Hell, Mat might even do it with a quarterstaff

 

 

I doubt it. Gawyn did beat 2 warders (prolly at the same time in tGS) and one of them was a blademaster who took Lan down once or twice. That doesn't actually give enough measure of Gawyn's skill against Lan. Gawyn probably can match Rand in skill. Ofcourse Rand is an Aiel and he can kill Gawyn with his bare hands;)

 

Taking two warders at once and one of them was close behind Land when he was younger! Rand, as good as he is, never really faced a true blade master since tGH, for all we know he wouldn't stand chance against Tam. All i'm saying that the only one we saw fight that looks to be the best right now is Gawyn. Even Brin said that he was always the talented one.

 

 

What you are stating is not in the books. Neither Lan's age is mentioned nor they were "close". Glimpse of WT (Mat's POV) shows us that warders practiced all the time and out of 100-200 engagements, if this guy bested Lan once, thats just luck. Lan, as Gawyn's statement kind proofs it, was a legend in WT. Besides, I am pretty sure Lan is better swordsman now than he was when he was young. Being a warder, he is still strong and fast and he has unbelievable amount of experience now.

 

Yes, Rand didn't face true Blademaster Toram Riatin in one of the book tat came after tGH!;) All I know about Gawyn is that Mat took down both brothers (Galad/Gawyn) alone. I bet he can do it again.

[jdbond]

I dont think that. They picked up tame sport of swordplay that old books described. They might have been good I they didn't have thousands of years of tradition to perfect. So, I don't think they would be that great in comparison to today's blade masters.

 

They themselves had centuries of their own personal lives to perfect it. And yes the sport was tame in that it wasn't to the death. Their forms however should be no less effective as not only did they have centuries to figure it all out, it was all put into practice in the most destructive war in human history: the War of Power that brought the Age of Legends crashing down.

 

Lan's 47. Lews Therin was 500+. Who's going to perfect their swordsmanship, really?

 

In tGH, Rand goes against Belal and gets thoroughly humiliated. And then he says that Belal was a true Blademaster, which means so was LTT.

 

It was in The Dragon Reborn actually :D!

 

 

Oops!

[Durinax]

What you are stating is not in the books. Neither Lan's age is mentioned nor they were "close". Glimpse of WT (Mat's POV) shows us that warders practiced all the time and out of 100-200 engagements, if this guy bested Lan once, thats just luck. Lan, as Gawyn's statement kind proofs it, was a legend in WT. Besides, I am pretty sure Lan is better swordsman now than he was when he was young. Being a warder, he is still strong and fast and he has unbelievable amount of experience now.

 

Yes, Rand didn't face true Blademaster Toram Riatin in one of the book tat came after tGH!;) All I know about Gawyn is that Mat took down both brothers (Galad/Gawyn) alone. I bet he can do it again.

well I would like to say that you can say teh same thing about gawyn in his fight (early in his training) and lan when he was young. gawyn now has the benefit of some experience so there is potential for him to be better than mat but how they would measure up is incredibly murky

[NetSlider]

Lan carries his ancestral power built sword. Obviously the ancestor who received it first wasn't Blademaster. In Randland, I am not sure right now who can actually beat Lan in a sword fight even though he is an old man.

 

Well, I think Gawyn can beat him now. I'm sure there are others but we just don't know about them (but very few). Hell, Mat might even do it with a quarterstaff

 

 

I doubt it. Gawyn did beat 2 warders (prolly at the same time in tGS) and one of them was a blademaster who took Lan down once or twice. That doesn't actually give enough measure of Gawyn's skill against Lan. Gawyn probably can match Rand in skill. Ofcourse Rand is an Aiel and he can kill Gawyn with his bare hands;)

 

Taking two warders at once and one of them was close behind Land when he was younger! Rand, as good as he is, never really faced a true blade master since tGH, for all we know he wouldn't stand chance against Tam. All i'm saying that the only one we saw fight that looks to be the best right now is Gawyn. Even Brin said that he was always the talented one.

 

 

What you are stating is not in the books. Neither Lan's age is mentioned nor they were "close". Glimpse of WT (Mat's POV) shows us that warders practiced all the time and out of 100-200 engagements, if this guy bested Lan once, thats just luck. Lan, as Gawyn's statement kind proofs it, was a legend in WT. Besides, I am pretty sure Lan is better swordsman now than he was when he was young. Being a warder, he is still strong and fast and he has unbelievable amount of experience now.

 

Yes, Rand didn't face true Blademaster Toram Riatin in one of the book tat came after tGH!;) All I know about Gawyn is that Mat took down both brothers (Galad/Gawyn) alone. I bet he can do it again.

Sleete bested Lan either 2 out of 5 or 2 out of 7 (i don't have the book with me). That's not even close to 100-200. That was when Lan was younger because it is stated it happened when Lan still dueled with other warders (which sound like a while ago). Now Gawyn defeated Sleete and another warder which of itself says a lot (remember how Brin felt more strong and a lot faster after bonding). Let's also remember that Rand is bonded as well, so he does get benefit of a warder. Gawyn does not and once he is warder I don't see anyone besting him in dueling (like fighting 5 times in a raw or something)

Mat did take down both of them with a quarterstaff. The greatest blademaster in history, Jearom, was beaten by a farmer with a quarterstaff. So, that does not prove much plus Gawyn had a lot of training since and practice.

In regards to stabbing warders in the back - where is that from? (i know you didn't post it). He faced them during revolution against Suan from what I remember.

And last thing, how did you come up with LTT was 500+ years old. I really don't recall ever reading that. I know he was over 100 maybe over 200 but 500+? Sound a bit excessive.

[capuga]

Darlin Sisnera is a blademaster. Mat fought and beat him in the Stone of Tear. Be`lal and Sammael are too, I believe, out of the Forsaken.

 

Actually, Darlin is not a blade master. After Rand and Toram's duel the group is hit by a bubble of evil and the Aes Sedai wish their warders were there and Cadsuane looks at Rand, Toram, and Darlin and says something like "We have three fine blades here, two of them heron-marked" refering to Rand and Toram's swords.

 

 

Lan carries his ancestral power built sword. Obviously the ancestor who received it first wasn't Blademaster. In Randland, I am not sure right now who can actually beat Lan in a sword fight even though he is an old man.

 

Well, I think Gawyn can beat him now. I'm sure there are others but we just don't know about them (but very few). Hell, Mat might even do it with a quarterstaff

 

I think the way the series as been written indicates that Lan is clearly the best swordsman living. Gawyn has become very good but I do not think he is better than Lan at this point.

 

Even though Rand has not technically reached blademaster status according to the "rules" I still consider him at that level. He kills Turak who is a blademaster. In tSR or tFoH he thinks to himself that Lan said he was almost at blademaster level and that Lan is stingy enough with compliments that he is likely there. He fights Toram, who is a blademaster, to a draw until he is distracted by the bubble of evil. I believe that a previous similar thread mentions a quote from RJ where he says that Rand would beat Galad in a sword fight and we know that Galad is now a blademaster. So he may not technically be a blademaster but I believe his skills are on that level.

 

It would also seem that Aram was likely at the skill level also.

[Sid]

I guess I mentioned that Demandred wasn't likely because of his thoughts in WH:

 

"But Generals did not have to fight alongside the men they commanded!"

 

I cannot recall if the BWBOBA mentioned his skills with a blade, but it did say that he was second only to LTT as the most honored and influential man of his age. It could be that he was a great dueler and swordsman, but hated being in the midst of the chaos of battle melee.

 

 

Another thought: After Rand lost his hand he said to Bashere that he'd have to learn the sword all over again. Has he had time to do anything like this? If not, if he does come up against a blademaster without his ability to channel to aid him he might get hurt very badly or worse.

[Jon Paul]

Another thought: After Rand lost his hand he said to Bashere that he'd have to learn the sword all over again. Has he had time to do anything like this? If not, if he does come up against a blademaster without his ability to channel to aid him he might get hurt very badly or worse.

 

Rand should pick up the rapier-style of sword. I believe Blademasters should be able to apply the sword forms to any sword. Lan should be as good with his Malkieri sword as with a Shienaran Broadsword or a Tearan (sp?) sabre. A little practice should see Rand capable with the sword again, as it was not his primary sword hand he lost, was it?

[Jon Paul]

In regards to stabbing warders in the back - where is that from? (i know you didn't post it). He faced them during revolution against Suan from what I remember.

And last thing, how did you come up with LTT was 500+ years old. I really don't recall ever reading that. I know he was over 100 maybe over 200 but 500+? Sound a bit excessive.

 

In regards to Gawyn, I apologise. I misremembered his monologue from A Crown of Swords when he was ambushed by the Aiel. In regards to Lews Therin's age.. I think it's a fair assumption. Not only was he described as being in his late middle ages during the prologue to the Eye of the World, but he was also the First Amongst the Servants, a career channeller. I doubt they would choose a whippersnapper at 200 for such an important office.

[jdbond]

Lan carries his ancestral power built sword. Obviously the ancestor who received it first wasn't Blademaster. In Randland, I am not sure right now who can actually beat Lan in a sword fight even though he is an old man.

 

Well, I think Gawyn can beat him now. I'm sure there are others but we just don't know about them (but very few). Hell, Mat might even do it with a quarterstaff

 

 

I doubt it. Gawyn did beat 2 warders (prolly at the same time in tGS) and one of them was a blademaster who took Lan down once or twice. That doesn't actually give enough measure of Gawyn's skill against Lan. Gawyn probably can match Rand in skill. Ofcourse Rand is an Aiel and he can kill Gawyn with his bare hands;)

 

Taking two warders at once and one of them was close behind Land when he was younger! Rand, as good as he is, never really faced a true blade master since tGH, for all we know he wouldn't stand chance against Tam. All i'm saying that the only one we saw fight that looks to be the best right now is Gawyn. Even Brin said that he was always the talented one.

 

 

What you are stating is not in the books. Neither Lan's age is mentioned nor they were "close". Glimpse of WT (Mat's POV) shows us that warders practiced all the time and out of 100-200 engagements, if this guy bested Lan once, thats just luck. Lan, as Gawyn's statement kind proofs it, was a legend in WT. Besides, I am pretty sure Lan is better swordsman now than he was when he was young. Being a warder, he is still strong and fast and he has unbelievable amount of experience now.

 

Yes, Rand didn't face true Blademaster Toram Riatin in one of the book tat came after tGH!;) All I know about Gawyn is that Mat took down both brothers (Galad/Gawyn) alone. I bet he can do it again.

Sleete bested Lan either 2 out of 5 or 2 out of 7 (i don't have the book with me). That's not even close to 100-200. That was when Lan was younger because it is stated it happened when Lan still dueled with other warders (which sound like a while ago). Now Gawyn defeated Sleete and another warder which of itself says a lot (remember how Brin felt more strong and a lot faster after bonding). Let's also remember that Rand is bonded as well, so he does get benefit of a warder. Gawyn does not and once he is warder I don't see anyone besting him in dueling (like fighting 5 times in a raw or something)

Mat did take down both of them with a quarterstaff. The greatest blademaster in history, Jearom, was beaten by a farmer with a quarterstaff. So, that does not prove much plus Gawyn had a lot of training since and practice.

In regards to stabbing warders in the back - where is that from? (i know you didn't post it). He faced them during revolution against Suan from what I remember.

And last thing, how did you come up with LTT was 500+ years old. I really don't recall ever reading that. I know he was over 100 maybe over 200 but 500+? Sound a bit excessive.

 

Not in the book, again! Lan became warder at the age of 27 or so. Lan never was a "young" warder per se.

 

Rand is more stronger than woman who has bonded her (making warder bond rather pointless) and he is same age as Gawyn. What could that bond possibly do for DR? I don't know what you think being warder has to do with sword skill? Especially being a blade master? Do you think warders are physically the best men around or sword fight is some kind of muscle game?

 

By the way, Gawyn probably has been practicing with sword since the day he was born. Remember unlike sword, Rand picked up bow very early and I think he can even give Birgitte run for hes money.

 

And yes, LTT was 400 plus years old. Most forsaken were 300 or older. Semirhage was young and then she was 200 or more.

[The Fisher King]

Blademaster Vs Jedi: GO!

 

Fish

[jdbond]

What you are stating is not in the books. Neither Lan's age is mentioned nor they were "close". Glimpse of WT (Mat's POV) shows us that warders practiced all the time and out of 100-200 engagements, if this guy bested Lan once, thats just luck. Lan, as Gawyn's statement kind proofs it, was a legend in WT. Besides, I am pretty sure Lan is better swordsman now than he was when he was young. Being a warder, he is still strong and fast and he has unbelievable amount of experience now.

 

Yes, Rand didn't face true Blademaster Toram Riatin in one of the book tat came after tGH!;) All I know about Gawyn is that Mat took down both brothers (Galad/Gawyn) alone. I bet he can do it again.

well I would like to say that you can say teh same thing about gawyn in his fight (early in his training) and lan when he was young. gawyn now has the benefit of some experience so there is potential for him to be better than mat but how they would measure up is incredibly murky

 

 

 

I am not saying that Gawyn will not catch up with Lan eventually though no one can match the meteoric rise of Rand. Of all the Blademasters in Randland, he is the only one who picked up sword for first time when he was 20!