Discuss The Full Book

[sleepinghour]

If you think that's gonna be bad, the cliffhanger with Lan is worse... ;)

 

Does he manage to reach Tarwin's Gap with his army?

[Man on the edge]

Now that I thought about it, wasn't Rand blocking his dreams to everyone who could enter? And even if he doesn't, what is Cyndane doing there? oh there's something going on, something vterrible that I don't want to find out. TSignus, thanx for the info btw.

[KefkaPalazzo]

Can anyone tell us whether there is any further information on the sword that Rand got in A Gathering Storm. I seem to re-call him recognizing it, and there seemed to be a mystery left up in the air about it. Can't remember the exact context, but he specifically said that it was his own memory, and not LTT's, that he remembered it from, and it REALLY thew me for a loop. I was hoping maybe that would be explained in ToM?!?!?!

 

nearly universal theory is that it's Artur Hawkwing's sword Justice. IIRC, he saw Hawkwing using it WAAAAAY back in TGH.

[dfchang]

Yes . . . and charges with 12000 against a Trolloc army of 150,000 or so.

 

I will guarantee that he will not die though . . .

 

Dennis

[Fury000]

So let's get some discussion going on the following:

 

1) The prophecy at the end of the book.

2) Demandred and what he intends with the Black Tower. It is now clear that the Black Tower appears to be his main focal point given the fact that he has dreamspiked it.

3) Min's new insight into Callandor.

4) Moiraine's other two wishes. What might they be? Has she given any indications?

5) What prophecies/viewings still have yet to be fulfilled?

6) The prologue bit with Perrin in T'a'R. What the heck was going on there? It seems an awful lot like Rand at Tear. Will T'a'R play more of a part than most people think?

7) Remaining Forsaken and what they are up to. I believe we have Moridin/Ishy (appears to know what Demandred has been up to - have we missed hints in earlier books?), Demandred (Black Tower, red veiled Aiel), Lanfear (may turn from the Shadow?), Graendal (another SH rape victim?), Moghedien (I forget where she is at) on the active list. Mesaana on the inactive list as her mind is gone. (Nyn just learned how to heal mental injuries though. Might we see this take a part here?)

 

What is a Dreamspike? Who can use it - only a channeler, only a female, only a male or both? What can it do?

 

For more info on Dreamspikes see my post in the Prologue through Chapter 5 thread. Basically, we know the user of the dreamspike can set it to allow/disallow different kinds of gateways from inside the bubble created by the spike to outside the bubble. This means no travelling and no skimming using the One Power. We don't really know if you need to channel to use it. Slayer had an active spike, but it may have been activated for him by Graendal.

 

Red veiled Aiels? Care to explain?

[Lord Melkor]

So, I will ask again, does it seem like there are any victories for the Shadow in this Book?

 

And what happens with Greandal and Demandred?

[Almearafan]

Can anyone tell us whether there is any further information on the sword that Rand got in A Gathering Storm. I seem to re-call him recognizing it, and there seemed to be a mystery left up in the air about it. Can't remember the exact context, but he specifically said that it was his own memory, and not LTT's, that he remembered it from, and it REALLY thew me for a loop. I was hoping maybe that would be explained in ToM?!?!?!

 

nearly universal theory is that it's Artur Hawkwing's sword Justice. IIRC, he saw Hawkwing using it WAAAAAY back in TGH.

 

Thanks much...just found out...I appreciated the answer though.

[jdbond]

So, I will ask again, does it seem like there are any victories for the Shadow in this Book?

 

And what happens with Greandal and Demandred?

 

SH enjoys Grandel. Demandred is his usual self, making big threats and still preparing for "war"..

[Alleluia_Cone]

So, I will ask again, does it seem like there are any victories for the Shadow in this Book?

 

And what happens with Greandal and Demandred?

 

SH enjoys Grandel. Demandred is his usual self, making big threats and still preparing for "war"..

 

Because she essentially left Halima to die? By the way, you'd think women would get the picture; you join the Dark One, you will probably get raped at one time or another.

[Lord Melkor]

So, I will ask again, does it seem like there are any victories for the Shadow in this Book?

 

And what happens with Greandal and Demandred?

 

SH enjoys Grandel. Demandred is his usual self, making big threats and still preparing for "war"..

 

Thank you!

 

So, any hints how the Shadow would like to win against these hordes of channelers on the light side? And what are these red-veiled Aiel I hear about?

[fionwe1987]

Okay some more questions:

 

1) Graendal is raped... is that all? Or does she actually do something?

 

2) Does Elayne really kill a ton of Trollocs? How does she manage this?

 

3) Are Perrin's TAR skills better, equal to or worse than Egwene's?

 

4) Is Egwene planning a Fateful Concord, a la Latra Pose? Are there any hints if she's Latra reborn?

 

5) How does Nynaeve figure out how to heal madness? Spontaneous, or does she work on it? Does Elayne also take the AS test, or is it waived because she is pregnant? Does Egwene take it?

[Alleluia_Cone]

2) Does Elayne really kill a ton of Trollocs? How does she manage this?

 

I think this question was answered on the thread you started in ReadandFindOut. Didn't know if you caught that or not.

[JenniferL]

I have just removed a bunch of posts complaining that there somehow aren't enough spoilers for you. Quit demanding that people with early copies retype the damn book for you and discuss the information given.

 

Note: I am fine with asking questions. But sarcastically saying "This IS the spoiler forum after all" will get your post deleted. If you're making a habit, it'll get you temp banned for two weeks. Spoilers are a privilege, not a right.

[Scraps]

"The other scene that rocked me to read is one that completely embraces the spirit of the whole series. It's the epitome of what makes The Wheel of Time stand apart from all other fantasy series. To say that I was moved by it is an understatement. After reading it, I honestly began to question whether this story will actually have a happy ending or not. I mean, let's face it. Most of us assume the series will conclude with a victory at the Last Battle, with maybe a few heroic deaths along the way, right? Well this sequence I'm talking about proves that even victory can be disaster. It shows that even the most noble of intentions can have a butterfly-effect ripple across the Pattern. The sequence was beautiful to behold, and that alone makes ToM worthy of being on the shelf with your other WoT books. " - Jasons Review.

 

 

What does this refer to? A prophecy? A revelation? What could mean that even victory would be a disaster?

[jdbond]

So, I will ask again, does it seem like there are any victories for the Shadow in this Book?

 

And what happens with Greandal and Demandred?

 

SH enjoys Grandel. Demandred is his usual self, making big threats and still preparing for "war"..

 

Thank you!

 

So, any hints how the Shadow would like to win against these hordes of channelers on the light side? And what are these red-veiled Aiel I hear about?

 

Sorry but I have not read the book:) But I did pick something similar from other post so what I said is not pure lie...

[TSignus]

Okay some more questions:

 

1) Graendal is raped... is that all? Or does she actually do something?

 

2) Does Elayne really kill a ton of Trollocs? How does she manage this?

 

3) Are Perrin's TAR skills better, equal to or worse than Egwene's?

 

4) Is Egwene planning a Fateful Concord, a la Latra Pose? Are there any hints if she's Latra reborn?

 

5) How does Nynaeve figure out how to heal madness? Spontaneous, or does she work on it? Does Elayne also take the AS test, or is it waived because she is pregnant? Does Egwene take it?

 

1) Graendal is heavily involved in a plot to kill Perrin. She is controlling Slayer who has a Dreamspike and is using it to prevent Perrin's army from travelling while she brings together enough Shadowspawn together to wipe out his forces. Her plan also ends up getting Mesaana destroyed when the Dreamspike is taken to Tar Valon, which prevents her from escaping. After Perrin destroys the Dreamspike, her shadowspawn attack his army, but he joins forces with the Whitecloaks to defeat them. Shaidar Haran shows up at the end of the book to punish her fcr two reasons:

 

a) Failing to kill Perrin.

b) She is now responsible for the deaths of THREE Chosen (Asmodean, Aran'gar, and Mesaana). Moridin had warned her after Aran'gar's death that her habit of getting Chosen killed was becoming an issue, so Mesaana's destruction was the final straw.

 

I would not be surprised to see Moridin wearing a third Mindtrap in aMoL.

 

2) No, she doesn't. She's not in Caemlyn when the Trollocs attack.

 

3) Different.

 

4)She's trying to unite all of Rand's allies in opposition to his plan to break the seals. She thinks it is too dangerous. I definitely got a Latra Posae vibe.

 

5) Only Nynaeve takes it.

[Beren]

"The other scene that rocked me to read is one that completely embraces the spirit of the whole series. It's the epitome of what makes The Wheel of Time stand apart from all other fantasy series. To say that I was moved by it is an understatement. After reading it, I honestly began to question whether this story will actually have a happy ending or not. I mean, let's face it. Most of us assume the series will conclude with a victory at the Last Battle, with maybe a few heroic deaths along the way, right? Well this sequence I'm talking about proves that even victory can be disaster. It shows that even the most noble of intentions can have a butterfly-effect ripple across the Pattern. The sequence was beautiful to behold, and that alone makes ToM worthy of being on the shelf with your other WoT books. " - Jasons Review.

 

 

What does this refer to? A prophecy? A revelation? What could mean that even victory would be a disaster?

 

It's related probably both to the Avhienda PoVs we get in this book as well as the prophecy at the very end of the book.

[TSignus]

"The other scene that rocked me to read is one that completely embraces the spirit of the whole series. It's the epitome of what makes The Wheel of Time stand apart from all other fantasy series. To say that I was moved by it is an understatement. After reading it, I honestly began to question whether this story will actually have a happy ending or not. I mean, let's face it. Most of us assume the series will conclude with a victory at the Last Battle, with maybe a few heroic deaths along the way, right? Well this sequence I'm talking about proves that even victory can be disaster. It shows that even the most noble of intentions can have a butterfly-effect ripple across the Pattern. The sequence was beautiful to behold, and that alone makes ToM worthy of being on the shelf with your other WoT books. " - Jasons Review.

 

 

What does this refer to? A prophecy? A revelation? What could mean that even victory would be a disaster?

 

Aviendha uses the crystal columns to see the future by living the lives of her DESCENDANTS. Things are not well in Randland and a lot of it seems to be her family's fault.

[Alleluia_Cone]

"The other scene that rocked me to read is one that completely embraces the spirit of the whole series. It's the epitome of what makes The Wheel of Time stand apart from all other fantasy series. To say that I was moved by it is an understatement. After reading it, I honestly began to question whether this story will actually have a happy ending or not. I mean, let's face it. Most of us assume the series will conclude with a victory at the Last Battle, with maybe a few heroic deaths along the way, right? Well this sequence I'm talking about proves that even victory can be disaster. It shows that even the most noble of intentions can have a butterfly-effect ripple across the Pattern. The sequence was beautiful to behold, and that alone makes ToM worthy of being on the shelf with your other WoT books. " - Jasons Review.

 

 

What does this refer to? A prophecy? A revelation? What could mean that even victory would be a disaster?

 

It's related probably both to the Avhienda PoVs we get in this book as well as the prophecy at the very end of the book.

 

Care to enlighten?

[Beren]

Okay some more questions:

 

1) Graendal is raped... is that all? Or does she actually do something?

 

2) Does Elayne really kill a ton of Trollocs? How does she manage this?

 

3) Are Perrin's TAR skills better, equal to or worse than Egwene's?

 

4) Is Egwene planning a Fateful Concord, a la Latra Pose? Are there any hints if she's Latra reborn?

 

5) How does Nynaeve figure out how to heal madness? Spontaneous, or does she work on it? Does Elayne also take the AS test, or is it waived because she is pregnant? Does Egwene take it?

 

1) She is now responsible for the death of three Chosen and has failed Moridin. Shaidar Haran showed up and said he was going to enjoy this or something of the sort. So... ya, based on other stuff I am assuming that is what happened to her. (Think Mesanna)

 

2) No, but someone does. It's one of the "awesome" points of the book.

 

3) WAY better. To give you a sample, he blocks balefire in T'a'R with his hand.

 

4) Egwene and Rand are going to be at odds it seems. We might actually need the Seanchan to take the White Tower in order for this to turn out alright... I hate to say it, but it seems true after reading this book.

 

5) She is talking to the Ashaman who "sees" fades all the time. She basically pokes around in his mind and then just does it by instinct, like she usually does.

[Lord Melkor]

Does Mazrim Taim appear in TOM at all?

 

What Aes Sedai plan to do with Black Tower now?

[Beren]

I am writing up some stuff on the Prophecies of the Shadow which I will post in here for discussion later.

 

Does Mazrim Taim appear in TOM at all?

 

He is mentioned though not really seen. We do get way more of an indication that things are NOT right at the Black Tower and I am beginning to understand the part about "The Black Tower will be rent in blood and fire and sisters will walk its grounds." The White Tower is doing nothing about it. Only one of the tower embassy seems to have her mind still intact. The Aes Sedai from Salidar are STILL waiting outside the Black Tower and there is no way to travel/skim out of the grounds. We don't know if you can get in yet.

[TSignus]

Does Mazrim Taim appear in TOM at all?

 

What Aes Sedai plan to do with Black Tower now?

 

Yep.

[Alleluia_Cone]

Any update on the Red Ajah in this book? Both inside the White Tower and the embassy sent to the Black Tower?

[Lord Melkor]

Does Mazrim Taim appear in TOM at all?

 

He is mentioned though not really seen. We do get way more of an indication that things are NOT right at the Black Tower and I am beginning to understand the part about "The Black Tower will be rent in blood and fire and sisters will walk its grounds."

 

 

Interesting.... does anybody consider what with happend with Black Tower after the final battle, what will be its role compared to White Tower?