Discuss The Full Book

[aunt_pol]

Oh yeah, and probably my biggest single gripe with the book - where the bloody blue blazes is Demandred? Not a peep out of him!!

[Darth Krewl]

Actually Avi still needs to have Rand's kids, so chances are high that unless something changes Rand will survive the last battle somehow.

 

The light losing would be depressing, I don't think RJ would burden us with that ending, because it would be a burden, that, and there was a plan for book(s) about Mat And Fortuona returning to the Seanchan continent and reconquering after the LB, Which could only happen if the light wins.

 

Nyn would be showing signs if she was pregnant, she hasn't seen Lan in some time so it would be clear by now. And mins full vision was a baby with a sword, and 7 towers. It seems to be a foretelling about Malkier, but we aren't sure what.

 

Well TS, like I said I'm not a die-hard TWoT fan. I'm a die-hard fan of fantasy, however. I'm into the mysticism, the magic and the spirituality of the particular universe that I'm reading about. Character development, depth and growth. Action, drama, adventure, epic battles, courageous heroes, evil villains, so on and so forth. So, no offense, but I'm not interested at all on the soap-operaish stuff, such as whom Rand may knock up and whatnot. Especially, Aviendha. Never cared much for this particular character. If I was interested in that stuff, I'd be reading romance novels, not fantasy.

 

The good guys losing would be depressing? Yeah, I guess people love happy endings, sure. But I have read, on this very thread, that Mr. Jordan himself said readers shouldn't expect the end to be a bed of roses, exactly. Still, that doesn't mean that the bad guys have to win. IMO, this series could do with a strong dose of drama and sense of danger. Because, after 13 books of not having one single major character bite the dust, things tend to get more than a little dull.

 

I just think that Lan could be a prime candidate for this very purpose. As for the aftermath, well, I'm only interested in the Last Battle and not any spin-off novels based in TWoT, so I wouldn't find the end of TWoT as a burden in any way...I'd just find it extremely disappointing if all major characters made it out of the Last Battle unscathed. Again, after 7000+ pages of reading about them escaping from impossible challenges, that would definitely be too far-fetched for my taste, regardless on whom might win the final showdown.

[Elan Tedronai]

i don't care about the dark side winning or the light losing. All i want is some fightback from the bad guys. After 13 books, all the major characters from book 1 are still bloody alive!

 

We know AMOL is going to be roughly the same size as TOM or TGS. So how many pages is going to be dedicated to the last battle.

 

I can't believe the war of power is going to trumph potentially over tarmon gaidon at this point. We needed 2 books for tarmon gaidon alone. what a joke

[Elan Tedronai]

Oh yeah, and probably my biggest single gripe with the book - where the bloody blue blazes is Demandred? Not a peep out of him!!

demandred is just a pussy. Or may be he's actually dead and the current one is an imposter. Reading his AOL biography makes him a badass. The current one is a wet blanket.

[aunt_pol]

He's a pain in the arse is what he is. Are we gonna have seventeen different awesome Dark plots dropped on us in the one moment in AMoL to redeem him? I just can't see him bringing enough badassery to counter his near-as-dammit invisibility for the last while. Moridin, now, was pretty cool in TGS. Dem's fallen behind quite a ways.

[r_bhatt93]

Oh yeah, and probably my biggest single gripe with the book - where the bloody blue blazes is Demandred? Not a peep out of him!!

demandred is just a pussy. Or may be he's actually dead and the current one is an imposter. Reading his AOL biography makes him a badass. The current one is a wet blanket.

 

Well just not being there doesn't make him a pussy

for all we know he could have been defeating the chiefs of the red aiel things with his bare hands to win their loyalty (or compulsing them to join him (compulsioning?))

We know he has some big army that he can pull out of his ass, but apart from the Seanchan, who will follow the empress and probably the prince of ravens to death, there is no army left in Randland except those...things... in the blight.

 

I'm hoping that he comes down with a whole platoon of was-aiels, who start raining death on Rand's armies

[AnthonyJamesEnglish]

Aiel vs Aiel Who will win! :D

[Guest Ishu161]

The real Towers of Midnight are in Seanchan....are these the ones the title is based upon? If yes, there was almost nothing about them in the book...so why bother?

maybe I'm just overthinking...gotta get some sleep.

 

Yea I agree. I was expecting some long draw out with the Seanchan but apparently not :P I also thought we'd get a bit further in and closer to TG. There's still loads of unanswered questions.

Camelyn's under attack, White Tower about to be bombarded by damane, Taim still in control, Demandred not revealed. Shara coming about..? Rand where? I feel like A Memory of light should be atleast 5000 pages for this all to come together..

Does anyone else get the feeling that Hawking is going to kill Fain?

 

 

You forget my friend, that Fain killed Perrin's family. While he is still under the impression that it was the trollocs. I think that Perrin killing Fain, after going into a wolf-rage when he learns that it was him that murdered his family will be what we see.

[Tiinker]

As regards the name Towers of Midnight, personally I always assumed it was to refer to all of the troublesome towers in the series, more or less - Black, White, Ghenjei (and spires visible from same), whatever Moridin has going on in the Blight, and of course the ones at Imfaral, in Seanchan.

 

I noticed something in the Glossary, though, and I'm too lazy to check in TGS or previous books for it, but I think it's new. The Glossary entry for Towers of Midnight says, "Legend has it that in time of dire need, the Imperial family will return to the ToM and "right that which is wrong"".

 

Now, what could that mean? Because surely Fortuona should be hotfooting it back there??

 

Probably that Tuon is going to come destroy the a'dam and let the damane go free. Only thing that can really be deduced from what we know of the Towers of Midnight. Pretty much nothing..

[Mr Ares]

for all we know he could have been defeating the chiefs of the red aiel things with his bare hands to win their loyalty (or compulsing them to join him (compulsioning?))

The word you're looking for is Compelling.

[nolirion]

As regards the name Towers of Midnight, personally I always assumed it was to refer to all of the troublesome towers in the series, more or less - Black, White, Ghenjei (and spires visible from same), whatever Moridin has going on in the Blight, and of course the ones at Imfaral, in Seanchan.

 

I noticed something in the Glossary, though, and I'm too lazy to check in TGS or previous books for it, but I think it's new. The Glossary entry for Towers of Midnight says, "Legend has it that in time of dire need, the Imperial family will return to the ToM and "right that which is wrong"".

 

Now, what could that mean? Because surely Fortuona should be hotfooting it back there??

 

Probably that Tuon is going to come destroy the a'dam and let the damane go free. Only thing that can really be deduced from what we know of the Towers of Midnight. Pretty much nothing..

I got a answer from Lucker about this , he said it was related to the Forsaken not the place in seanchan .

[Elan Tedronai]

Oh yeah, and probably my biggest single gripe with the book - where the bloody blue blazes is Demandred? Not a peep out of him!!

demandred is just a pussy. Or may be he's actually dead and the current one is an imposter. Reading his AOL biography makes him a badass. The current one is a wet blanket.

 

Well just not being there doesn't make him a pussy

for all we know he could have been defeating the chiefs of the red aiel things with his bare hands to win their loyalty (or compulsing them to join him (compulsioning?))

We know he has some big army that he can pull out of his ass, but apart from the Seanchan, who will follow the empress and probably the prince of ravens to death, there is no army left in Randland except those...things... in the blight.

 

I'm hoping that he comes down with a whole platoon of was-aiels, who start raining death on Rand's armies

 

 

I predict demandred will appear in AMOL and get killed like a pussy like the rest of forsaken brethren.

[analyticalkeys]

Lol, imagine if Demandred kills Rand.

[bjsm]

As regards the name Towers of Midnight, personally I always assumed it was to refer to all of the troublesome towers in the series, more or less - Black, White, Ghenjei (and spires visible from same), whatever Moridin has going on in the Blight, and of course the ones at Imfaral, in Seanchan.

 

I noticed something in the Glossary, though, and I'm too lazy to check in TGS or previous books for it, but I think it's new. The Glossary entry for Towers of Midnight says, "Legend has it that in time of dire need, the Imperial family will return to the ToM and "right that which is wrong"".

 

Now, what could that mean? Because surely Fortuona should be hotfooting it back there??

 

Probably that Tuon is going to come destroy the a'dam and let the damane go free. Only thing that can really be deduced from what we know of the Towers of Midnight. Pretty much nothing..

 

Seems the most likely to me, too, but who knows. It certainly could happen after the end of AMOL and be related to the outriggers, but Fortuona (or Mat, I suppose, since it's just the Imperial Family in the legend, not the Empress) could Travel there and achieve something in AMOL.

[Tervvo]

In the last book Rand said something to the effect If he is LLT she could be alive too.

I'm thinking that would be Illyena.

I was hoping to see more about that in TOM.

Wouldn't that be something.

[Jonn]

I REALLY loved this book.

 

I was actually hesitant to buy it because unlike many people here, I kind of didn't like The Gathering Storm. Sorry, it just felt...off.

 

Towers of Midnight was just so *sigh* satisfying. At this point I feel it rivals The Shadow Rising. Perrin came back strong with some badassery. Moiraine returned. So much happened.

 

I concur with Luckers' assessment that Lan's storyline kind of spluttered, but all in all I was entertained all the way through.

 

Aviendha's trip through the columns was SHATTERING. I LOOOOOVED it. My theory is that it showed her what the future would be if she continued on the path she would have if she had not traveled through the columns in reverse. So now she is presented with the conundrum again of continuing her relationship with Rand and bearing the doom of her people. In the end I feel that she will see that she cannot avoid bearing Rand's children. She'll probably leave a warning of what may occur, to her offspring. That or she will seek death at the Last Battle before she bears them, but as we all know this is next to impossible because Min's sure viewings are always true. This portion of the book really lent a lot of dimension to the story and catapulted it to a great installment of the series rather just a simply entertaining one.

 

I kind of get the feeling that Nynaeve will teach the Red Ajah how to pick apart madness and this will become their specialty. Just a thought. Not sure if it will pan out that way...I mean, since Gentling is no longer the option, they need something to do.

 

I dunno. I'm so overwhelmed by how much I enjoyed this book, it's really hard to center my line of thought about the whole of it.

Bottom line, I think Sanderson has really hit his stride with the series. Can't wait till the end. Well played, Sir.

 

I shall eat my words and swallow my pride by saying that I was wrong. Extending the series to 14 books was the right ploy.

[didymos]

I kind of get the feeling that Nynaeve will teach the Red Ajah how to pick apart madness and this will become their specialty. Just a thought. Not sure if it will pan out that way...I mean, since Gentling is no longer the option, they need something to do.

 

There's no more madmen in production though, so that's not a particularly good purpose for the Red. There aren't so many Asha'man that it would take that long to fix whatever madness they might have. Get a reasonably sizable group of channelers together, and you could be done with the whole lot in a matter of days. My hunch is that the Red will actually end up becoming the Ajah that specializes in techniques/weaves that require working with male channelers.

[dwn]

I kind of get the feeling that Nynaeve will teach the Red Ajah how to pick apart madness and this will become their specialty. Just a thought. Not sure if it will pan out that way...I mean, since Gentling is no longer the option, they need something to do.

 

There's no more madmen in production though, so that's not a particularly good purpose for the Red. There aren't so many Asha'man that it would take that long to fix whatever madness they might have. Get a reasonably sizable group of channelers together, and you could be done with the whole lot in a matter of days. My hunch is that the Red will actually end up becoming the Ajah that specializes in techniques/weaves that require working with male channelers.

 

As Silviana points out, the Red is also positioned well to deal with rogue channellers, male or female. With the new mix of Asha'man, Wise Ones, Kin, Windfinders and (possibly) freed damane, there will likely be plenty of people willing to use the Power for nefarious purposes. If the Oath Rod is ever abandoned, the Red would also likely deal with rogue Aes Sedai. Even channelling darkfriends could be a problem for many years to come. Even the memory of the Dark One will entice people to follow him, whether he has any actual influence in the world or not.

 

This is actually an interesting way for the Seanchan to come to terms with channelling. If they're somehow convinced that channellers can be policed, the need for the a'dam as a means to protect society is diminished.

 

-- dwn

[Haran]

I kind of get the feeling that Nynaeve will teach the Red Ajah how to pick apart madness and this will become their specialty. Just a thought. Not sure if it will pan out that way...I mean, since Gentling is no longer the option, they need something to do.

 

There's no more madmen in production though, so that's not a particularly good purpose for the Red. There aren't so many Asha'man that it would take that long to fix whatever madness they might have. Get a reasonably sizable group of channelers together, and you could be done with the whole lot in a matter of days. My hunch is that the Red will actually end up becoming the Ajah that specializes in techniques/weaves that require working with male channelers.

 

As Silviana points out, the Red is also positioned well to deal with rogue channellers, male or female. With the new mix of Asha'man, Wise Ones, Kin, Windfinders and (possibly) freed damane, there will likely be plenty of people willing to use the Power for nefarious purposes. If the Oath Rod is ever abandoned, the Red would also likely deal with rogue Aes Sedai. Even channelling darkfriends could be a problem for many years to come. Even the memory of the Dark One will entice people to follow him, whether he has any actual influence in the world or not.

 

This is actually an interesting way for the Seanchan to come to terms with channelling. If they're somehow convinced that channellers can be policed, the need for the a'dam as a means to protect society is diminished.

 

-- dwn

 

Yeah, I always thought of the Red Ajah as the Aes Sedai Police. They have only gone a bit bonkers due to trying to suppress so many male channelers and somehow their true purpose of policing the use of the one power has been lost. The fact that they think that their new purpose, now that Saidin has been cleansed, is to control Asha’man is very frustrating to me.

[didymos]

The fact that they think that their new purpose, now that Saidin has been cleansed, is to control Asha’man is very frustrating to me.

 

Of course they do: they're Aes Sedai, they're Red Ajah, and they either have no experience with male channelers at all, they've taken part in capturing/gentling a couple before they could do any damage or go mad, or they've had some bad ones with false Dragons and/or genuine madmen. They also have 3000 years of history that says male channeling is bad informing them. To expect that to just evaporate and the whole Ajah to just go "Well, guess we're not needed anymore. Not like that, anyway. Those men can do what they want, 'cause it's OK now" is unrealistic. They're not gonna change their tune until they actually get to know some decent Asha'man and get a little experience with saidin itself. And even then there will still be holdouts who refuse to change their ideas, or those who intellectually get that male channelers aren't all timebombs, taint or no, but won't quite be able to accept it emotionally and actually work with them.

[Darth Krewl]

Yeah, I always thought of the Red Ajah as the Aes Sedai Police. They have only gone a bit bonkers due to trying to suppress so many male channelers and somehow their true purpose of policing the use of the one power has been lost. The fact that they think that their new purpose, now that Saidin has been cleansed, is to control Asha’man is very frustrating to me.

 

The fact that the Reds look at male channelers as something to "be controlled" (when these women can't even control their own selves, their Ajah and order in general) is frustrating, sure. But, ALL Aes Sedai feel like they're head and shoulders above all men (channelers and ordinary guys alike) and even women who can't channel. Heck, even "wilders"! Come think of it, what have the female Aes Sedai of the Third Age done to help as the Last Battle begins? What makes these women so high and mighty? What makes them stand out over Aiel Wise Ones, Sea Folk Windfinders and male channelers in general?

 

All they do is spend their time hiding in their stronghold at Tar Valon, bickering amongst themselves, scheming and conspiring against their leader and one another, instead of accepting the drastic changes that the end of their age has brought about and doing something REAL to contribute. I mean, really, these women have become a burden for the folk of their world; a hindrance, now the Last Battle's in full bloom, incapable of contributing anything positive, but for a handful of exceptions, perhaps, such as Nynaeve.

 

It was Rand who came to the aid of Ituralde during the attack on Maradon, not the Aes Sedai. It was Mat and a kinswoman who beat the Gholem, not the Aes Sedai. While Perrin was saving the Aes Sedai's precious leader's useless hide in Tel'aran'rhiod, Gawyn was saving the clueless twit in the physical world. None of those two are even channelers, let alone Aes Sedai. What did Aes Sedai do, other than the handful who fought with Perrin's army, when he saved the Whitecloaks? What, Egwene breaking Mesaana's mind? Gimme a break. Moiraine balefiring Bel'al is the only Aes Sedai who's really defeated a Forsaken. As for all others, it was Rand. And I mean he defeated them soundly, not just made retards out of them.

 

How much has the Dragon Reborn done for his world and his people? Now, he is the one who's done it all. He and the other two Ta'veren, along with a few Asha'man, Aiel and other very brave soldiers. And yet, every single damned Aes Sedai Rand's crossed paths with (from Moiraine to Egwene) has always thought to know better than him and tried to get her hands on him, to guide the Dragon Reborn "properly". Good thing none of them have succeeded! They certainly lack the wits, the wisdom and, most importantly, the humility to guide anyone. Had any of them (Moiraine, Siuan, Elaida, Cadsuane and Egwene) done it, the Dark One would've already won and he wouldn't have suffered as many losses in the process.

 

I've been wishing to see Aes Sedai brought down from their lofty perch for a long, long time. I've been wishing to see their stupid pride and arrogance bring about the fall of the White Tower ever since the split. And I still believe this should be their fate, 'cause it's been proven, time and time again, that the Aes Sedai of the Third Age are an embarrassment to their counterparts from the Age of Legends (including the males, of course). They're not the be all end all of all things in the Randland and it's about time that they learned their real place.

 

Since the Forsaken failed miserably, I do hope to see the Seanchan raze the White Tower to the ground in the next book. Or Taim's Dark Asha'man, for that matter. Heck, anyone! Just make all these ridiculous, idiotic, self-conceited ignorant women pay the price for their pride, for pity's sake haha

 

Mat can use his position to have all damane freed, while Logain (or Rand, if he makes it) founds a new, legitimate Aes Sedai order, fashioned after the original one. I've no problem w/that. I just want to see these infuriating women learn a very necessary, albeit painful, lesson in humility.

[capuga]

Yeah, I always thought of the Red Ajah as the Aes Sedai Police. They have only gone a bit bonkers due to trying to suppress so many male channelers and somehow their true purpose of policing the use of the one power has been lost. The fact that they think that their new purpose, now that Saidin has been cleansed, is to control Asha’man is very frustrating to me.

 

The fact that the Reds look at male channelers as something to "be controlled" (when these women can't even control their own selves, their Ajah and order in general) is frustrating, sure. But, ALL Aes Sedai feel like they're head and shoulders above all men (channelers and ordinary guys alike) and even women who can't channel. Heck, even "wilders"! Come think of it, what have the female Aes Sedai of the Third Age done to help as the Last Battle begins? What makes these women so high and mighty? What makes them stand out over Aiel Wise Ones, Sea Folk Windfinders and male channelers in general?

 

All they do is spend their time hiding in their stronghold at Tar Valon, bickering amongst themselves, scheming and conspiring against their leader and one another, instead of accepting the drastic changes that the end of their age has brought about and doing something REAL to contribute. I mean, really, these women have become a burden for the folk of their world; a hindrance, now the Last Battle's in full bloom, incapable of contributing anything positive, but for a handful of exceptions, perhaps, such as Nynaeve.

 

It was Rand who came to the aid of Ituralde during the attack on Maradon, not the Aes Sedai. It was Mat and a kinswoman who beat the Gholem, not the Aes Sedai. While Perrin was saving the Aes Sedai's precious leader's useless hide in Tel'aran'rhiod, Gawyn was saving the clueless twit in the physical world. None of those two are even channelers, let alone Aes Sedai. What did Aes Sedai do, other than the handful who fought with Perrin's army, when he saved the Whitecloaks? What, Egwene breaking Mesaana's mind? Gimme a break. Moiraine balefiring Bel'al is the only Aes Sedai who's really defeated a Forsaken. As for all others, it was Rand. And I mean he defeated them soundly, not just made retards out of them.

 

How much has the Dragon Reborn done for his world and his people? Now, he is the one who's done it all. He and the other two Ta'veren, along with a few Asha'man, Aiel and other very brave soldiers. And yet, every single damned Aes Sedai Rand's crossed paths with (from Moiraine to Egwene) has always thought to know better than him and tried to get her hands on him, to guide the Dragon Reborn "properly". Good thing none of them have succeeded! They certainly lack the wits, the wisdom and, most importantly, the humility to guide anyone. Had any of them (Moiraine, Siuan, Elaida, Cadsuane and Egwene) done it, the Dark One would've already won and he wouldn't have suffered as many losses in the process.

 

I've been wishing to see Aes Sedai brought down from their lofty perch for a long, long time. I've been wishing to see their stupid pride and arrogance bring about the fall of the White Tower ever since the split. And I still believe this should be their fate, 'cause it's been proven, time and time again, that the Aes Sedai of the Third Age are an embarrassment to their counterparts from the Age of Legends (including the males, of course). They're not the be all end all of all things in the Randland and it's about time that they learned their real place.

 

Since the Forsaken failed miserably, I do hope to see the Seanchan raze the White Tower to the ground in the next book. Or Taim's Dark Asha'man, for that matter. Heck, anyone! Just make all these ridiculous, idiotic, self-conceited ignorant women pay the price for their pride, for pity's sake haha

 

Mat can use his position to have all damane freed, while Logain (or Rand, if he makes it) founds a new, legitimate Aes Sedai order, fashioned after the original one. I've no problem w/that. I just want to see these infuriating women learn a very necessary, albeit painful, lesson in humility.

 

You would probably enjoy Lucker's thread "The Life and Times of Aes Sedai: A Study in Stupidity" on the General section. He does a really good job breaking down all the failings of the White Tower.

[Darth Krewl]

You would probably enjoy Lucker's thread "The Life and Times of Aes Sedai: A Study in Stupidity" on the General section. He does a really good job breaking down all the failings of the White Tower.

 

With a title like that, I think I'm certainly gonna enjoy that thread ;D

 

Thanks for the recommendation, Mark.

[Haran]

The fact that they think that their new purpose, now that Saidin has been cleansed, is to control Asha’man is very frustrating to me.

 

Of course they do: they're Aes Sedai, they're Red Ajah, and they either have no experience with male channelers at all, they've taken part in capturing/gentling a couple before they could do any damage or go mad, or they've had some bad ones with false Dragons and/or genuine madmen. They also have 3000 years of history that says male channeling is bad informing them. To expect that to just evaporate and the whole Ajah to just go "Well, guess we're not needed anymore. Not like that, anyway. Those men can do what they want, 'cause it's OK now" is unrealistic. They're not gonna change their tune until they actually get to know some decent Asha'man and get a little experience with saidin itself. And even then there will still be holdouts who refuse to change their ideas, or those who intellectually get that male channelers aren't all timebombs, taint or no, but won't quite be able to accept it emotionally and actually work with them.

 

Yeah I can totally seee how its in tune with the rest of the series. But COME ON people, thats abit of a narrow vision isnt it?

 

Think big people! OK saidin cleansed? cool, im gonna bond me 4 asha'man and then im gonna go around and bully the rest of the world who are still afraid of male channelers. That's more like it.

[stoper]

Aviendha's trip through the columns was SHATTERING. I LOOOOOVED it.

What Aviendha saw in this chapter was the single most horrible outcome of the WoT series I've ever imagined. Seanchan ruling the world with their damane... better The Dark One put it all to an end. I really, REALLY hope she could change that.