Chapter Two, "Questions of Leadership"

[Elend]

I'm just posting here to say that Galad is quickly becoming one of my favorite characters. I mean, really, its nice to see a few characters doing what's right when it all hits the fan.

 

Perrin was Perrin. 'Nuff said. Though its cool to confirm the ta'veren effect w.r.t spoilage.

[Fury000]

/wrist for Perrins part of the chapter. Sadly that two writers cant improve him.

[GB]

overall i kind of liked mostly galad POV in chapter 2 even if it was wrapped up quickly.

 

what if the maidens are hiding because they need to get to Perrin immediately to share whatever is it they have seen?

 

and as for perrin, he is getting a bit too whiny but hopefully something will force him to change his attitude like a VoG moment.

 

and i wonder what faile has to say to perrin.....

[fborch]

Good chapter, although its time for perrin to grow the fuck up. Really enjoyed Gaøad, although it was a bit rushed. Guessing the notes told BS what happened, with no real explanation of how.

[Crael123]

I am also agreeing that I like Galad surprisingly... I have never given up on perrin. he gets some what annoying but iv always liked his story line for some weird reason even if it does involve him being a baby. but i do agree somewhat if my wife was stolen from me hey i would go to the end of the world to find her again.

[Crossroad]

I always thought Perrin was a great character (the wolf thing was awesome) but when Faile join him he seem to take a bit of slide into self doubt. He still believes he not good enough for her, but we all know better

 

I'm sick of him not having a pair, at least we know he going to grow some. Its been too long.

 

Galad well we all knew he was the Knight in shinning armor and his POV was straight to the point no waste of words and we had everything wrapped up very nicely, ready for the next connection to the thread.

 

About the maidens riding, I'm not to sure about that, I'm thinking its a error in the writing. I can't see it being anything else

[NetSlider]

Did anyone else thought that the bubble of evil snake attack was a bit...cheesy? I mean I appreciate the whole explanation about the delay and all, but still...I guess it would work better if it was not a reference but something we actually saw happening in tGS; it wouldn't look as an excuse. IMO

[Lynchgrinch]

Galad is becoming AWESOME, unlike most others I'm liking the shortness of his capture and how it all worked out. It leaves more room to show how he is gonna lead. Galad is like an archetype whitecloak to me, he's how the CoTL should be, not all zeloty and mental. Just good people who are willing to make tough choices for the sake of the Light.

 

Simmilarly, i think Moirane and/or Egwene are good archetypes for what Aes Sedai should be, not petty and trying to get the upper hand on everyone arround them, but rather doing what must be done.

 

Perrin is pretty dull right now i have to say. But i do sense an epiphany on his part just round the corner. Hopefully we'll get tDR/tSR Perrin back, so he can be cool again and one of my faves :) Liked the bit about the grain non-spoilage btw, Ta'veren are gonna be even more awesome soon, or so it seems. Kinda puts a spanner in the works about my "warp in the air" theory, though. Seems i'm gonna have to re-think myself...

 

Everytime i listen to an audio book i can't help but thinking how horrible it is not to have the actual text there. I HATE IT. I don't wanna bash the guys that were doing the reading though, it was done well, appart from when he tried to make his voice go higher when reading out Faile's lines, i LOL'ed muchly.

 

All in all i can't wait for November 2nd!

[fborch]

You guys reckon the whitecloaks will revert back to their original purpose with this? Otherwise we're in for some violence when Galad catches up Perrin who has not only channelers with him, but male ones even. Surely the whitecloaks would go apeshit having to work with what is, by their definition, darkfriends.

[NetSlider]

Galad is becoming AWESOME, unlike most others I'm liking the shortness of his capture and how it all worked out. It leaves more room to show how he is gonna lead. Galad is like an archetype whitecloak to me, he's how the CoTL should be, not all zeloty and mental. Just good people who are willing to make tough choices for the sake of the Light.

 

Simmilarly, i think Moirane and/or Egwene are good archetypes for what Aes Sedai should be, not petty and trying to get the upper hand on everyone arround them, but rather doing what must be done.

 

Perrin is pretty dull right now i have to say. But i do sense an epiphany on his part just round the corner. Hopefully we'll get tDR/tSR Perrin back, so he can be cool again and one of my faves :) Liked the bit about the grain non-spoilage btw, Ta'veren are gonna be even more awesome soon, or so it seems. Kinda puts a spanner in the works about my "warp in the air" theory, though. Seems i'm gonna have to re-think myself...

 

Everytime i listen to an audio book i can't help but thinking how horrible it is not to have the actual text there. I HATE IT. I don't wanna bash the guys that were doing the reading though, it was done well, appart from when he tried to make his voice go higher when reading out Faile's lines, i LOL'ed muchly.

 

All in all i can't wait for November 2nd!

 

 

Don't be "dising" Kramer - he's the best reader out there! If you give it enough time you will actually expect him to slide into different voices for different characters so with time you can actually "hear" people from WOT.

 

 

[Cyf]

Did anyone else thought that the bubble of evil snake attack was a bit...cheesy? I mean I appreciate the whole explanation about the delay and all, but still...I guess it would work better if it was not a reference but something we actually saw happening in tGS; it wouldn't look as an excuse. IMO

 

I don't agree. The problem with Perrin's storyline in general is we saw a lot of stuff that didn't need to be there. It dragged out. The snakebites would just have drawn out the story even more.

[Charlz Guybon]

Also, anyone else feel that this scene made the prologue scene for Galad completely pointless. 'Oh no he's been captured by Asunawa' 'Nope, it's fine--all is resolved, and off screen too so don't worry about it'.

I agree, but I think these two POVs really let us see how Galad ticks(and makes him extremely likeable), which is important because he is gaining importance in the story.

I agree, these chapters have really helped our understanding of Galad's character.

[NetSlider]

Did anyone else thought that the bubble of evil snake attack was a bit...cheesy? I mean I appreciate the whole explanation about the delay and all, but still...I guess it would work better if it was not a reference but something we actually saw happening in tGS; it wouldn't look as an excuse. IMO

 

I don't agree. The problem with Perrin's storyline in general is we saw a lot of stuff that didn't need to be there. It dragged out. The snakebites would just have drawn out the story even more.

 

Really, dragged out? At this point extra 5 pages wouldn't change anything IMO but it would sound as if it was meant to be part of the story and not an answer to the fans that were asking "what's taking Perrin so long?"

[Luckers]

I agree with Netslider--not necessarily that we saw the Snakes on the Plane, but maybe the aftermat. If this POV began in the sicktents with Perrin speaking to an exhuasted Seonid and her explaining how despite healing those bitten were suffering... that would have been cool. As it was, it was telling, not showing. A major no-no in writing.

 

If Brandon needed this to happen, he needed to show it. Otherwise he needed to cut it. The sloppy way it was revealed to us, added to the Asha'men's long winded explanation as to why they can't travel in tGS, forgetting the ability to tie off weaves... it just felt like a clumsy 'I needed Perrin to Not-Travel'. It wasn't the only thing--Faile's big reveal of Perrin's Instant Army felt much the same. Blunt.

 

This is part of why I maintain Perrin should have been cut from tGS entirely. Galad should have been in tGS, with one or two more scenes prior to Asunawa dying, and the space left in ToM should have been dedicated to what occured in this chapter alone--it should have been expanded to show the sick and injured, thereby explaining the lack of travelling. It should have been expanded to show the Army, in person. Both things could have been done and have been interesting whilst progressing the story without the sense of 'Infodump'

[Bastor]

Just something I wanted to add about the Maidens + Horseys...wait that came out wrong...ugh...

Anyway! How many swamps do you think they have in the waste? Yeah thought so. About the same number as they do rivers...actually less than that. ^^

Seeing their fear of rivers it is just natural that they carry a reluctance to jumping and running around the swamp...

[Reeds]

OK people I gotta say I liked Perrin in this chapter, that is to say he is what I think a lot of us were expecting. Perrin for a while now has been described as slow and dull, both in the way he acts in his chapters and the way his plot line is going. But I am beginning to believe the that was all intentional, as I think a lot of people do. Its too obvious that for books now Perrin has been trying to figure out some puzzle. The Analogy with the 'most complicated blacksmiths puzzle' and blacksmiths puzzles have been around for too long.

 

Something is wrong in his camp. (which is what I wanted to ask everyone, as I have no idea what) It's almost like he is trying to pretend he has no idea about it until he has it figured out. This is one of the most interesting groups of people out there, so diverse. Aes Sedai and Asha'man working together (relative to elsewhere), a queen, the first, a former queen, Aeil, wise ones, two rivers soldiers, Aei Sedai meeting with enemies, his wife (perhaps the most important given her bloodlines) etc etc Were they all really necessary for what he had to accomplish? Even given Rand and the Pattern? Its a mess that barely works. SOMETHING is going on and perrin has been trying to figure it out for books now and eventually the answer is going to up and slap him in the face so hard.

 

I believe the problem that both RJ and Sanderson have had is trying to keep what perrin is 'doing' interesting enough so that what is happening in the background can develop to the point that it is both a big reveal and necessary to perrins development plot wise. That is why the chapters seem slow and boring, they have been foreshadowing but have been trying to not give it away, a bit like "hey guys there is a puzzle here, see of you can try and figure out what it is in the first place before you try and put the million little pieces together."

 

This is why I think Sanderson, normally a careful writer based on his other works, is making some mistakes here. He's focused so much on the thing just beneath the surface and not giving it away that he slips up now and again on unimportant things. I believe too that Galad is going to be the catalyst for whatever it is to be revealed. (His stepmother, the'man in white' prophecy and perhaps following perrin adding to leadership duties etc)

[Tenesmus]

I think the "bubble of evil" could have been presented in TGS, instead/with of the wagon scene. BS could have easily added the AS and A'M to the line of folks complaining to Perrin. Oh well, hindsight is always 20/20.

 

Definiteley think Morgase will try to hide/flee from the White Cloaks, for obvious reasons, like being thier prisoner for a couple books... I think Balwer will have a role to play, and may actually be the one to intercede on Perrin's behalf, vice Morgase.

 

Also, I think Verin may make an appearance before Perrin gets to Caemlyn; but that may also happen off screen. "Perrin sat on Stayer, thumbing the letter Verin had given him last night..."

[NetSlider]

OK people I gotta say I liked Perrin in this chapter, that is to say he is what I think a lot of us were expecting. Perrin for a while now has been described as slow and dull, both in the way he acts in his chapters and the way his plot line is going. But I am beginning to believe the that was all intentional, as I think a lot of people do. Its too obvious that for books now Perrin has been trying to figure out some puzzle. The Analogy with the 'most complicated blacksmiths puzzle' and blacksmiths puzzles have been around for too long.

 

Something is wrong in his camp. (which is what I wanted to ask everyone, as I have no idea what) It's almost like he is trying to pretend he has no idea about it until he has it figured out. This is one of the most interesting groups of people out there, so diverse. Aes Sedai and Asha'man working together (relative to elsewhere), a queen, the first, a former queen, Aeil, wise ones, two rivers soldiers, Aei Sedai meeting with enemies, his wife (perhaps the most important given her bloodlines) etc etc Were they all really necessary for what he had to accomplish? Even given Rand and the Pattern? Its a mess that barely works. SOMETHING is going on and perrin has been trying to figure it out for books now and eventually the answer is going to up and slap him in the face so hard.

 

I believe the problem that both RJ and Sanderson have had is trying to keep what perrin is 'doing' interesting enough so that what is happening in the background can develop to the point that it is both a big reveal and necessary to perrins development plot wise. That is why the chapters seem slow and boring, they have been foreshadowing but have been trying to not give it away, a bit like "hey guys there is a puzzle here, see of you can try and figure out what it is in the first place before you try and put the million little pieces together."

 

This is why I think Sanderson, normally a careful writer based on his other works, is making some mistakes here. He's focused so much on the thing just beneath the surface and not giving it away that he slips up now and again on unimportant things. I believe too that Galad is going to be the catalyst for whatever it is to be revealed. (His stepmother, the'man in white' prophecy and perhaps following perrin adding to leadership duties etc)

 

Perrin is nothing as I expected him. More and more I think and listen to this chapter the more I hate it (and yes, I mean it). Galad part is nothing surprising (he was always strong of character if not the smartest man in the room). Perrin is also not surprising - idiot who's getting his whole life clouded by a woman. I've been there and done that in real life and in retrospect - what was I thinking? That's why Mat is the man - he does not fall for the first girl but instead gaining wisdom through time. It does not mean woman will not rule his life sooner or later (they alway do once you find the right one) but at least she's worth it. I mean, Perrin makes an acknowledgement that he would ignore TG to save Faile even though it is wrong. Can you find a bigger fool or more selfish and childish person than that. An adult is someone who does what must and needs to be done and not something he/she wants to do while understanding that it is wrong. PERRIN - GROW THE F$K UP! I'm getting really sick and tired to you!

 

In regards to the pace of the book so far (from what we saw) I am kind of sad that it's not in "classical" RJ style (from the pre-reviews and chapters available) but I'm also happy to see things keep on moving to the destination. I'm torn between finally knowing the end after reading the books for 10 years and yet I don't want it to end. Weird ha? (I don't even know what is the second paragraph about, but I'll leave it anyways).

[TheTruePower]

I can't really understand what everyone dislikes so much about Perrin.

 

I think his part was truly well-written and makes me looking forward to reading the rest of his storyline.

 

Obviously, his appearance in TGS was completely unnecessary and should have been cut; likewise, if Galad's prologue part had occured in TGS, the cliffhanger effect would have had more of an impact. But overall, I think this chapter shows that Perrin will experience some serious character development during TofM. Excluding the parts in TGS (which, in this particular chapter, was just being repeated, I cannot understand the Perrin-hate.

 

Give him the benefit of a doubt before you've read the book. I did not like him in TGS; now, it looks like my very favorite character will make a strong comeback!

[Hael Me]

Good points by both Luckers and Tenesmus! The Galad situation would have been much more effective if we had seen him getting captured and waiting for torture and/or execution in tGS. As it was now, it felt kind of... cheap, although it was well written. Captured and released, in the blink of an eye. Also, the chapter with Perrin and the wagons in tGS, in retrospect, feels even less necessary, when we know that a Bubble of Evil occured in his camp, and the two Asha'man were bitten by mud snakes. Could easily have been a cooler scene than the one with endless chattering about wagons, that in reality served the same end, delaying Perrin...

 

I liked the chapter, though. Especially Faile. Never thought I would write this. After her rescue from the Shaido she has managed to do some good. Killing the Prophet was a blessing to the forces of the Light. A rabid dog can turn against anyone! And now she makes sense, when talking to Perrin. This is something new. The world is in chaos, obviously.

 

Galad? The man is a natural born hero. I'm beginning to wonder though if he could be Ta'veren or a future Hero of the Horn or something like that, the way the Lord Captains suddenly turned against Asunwa, killing Questioners and fellow Whitecloaks in the process, just to save him.

[NetSlider]

I can't really understand what everyone dislikes so much about Perrin.

 

I think his part was truly well-written and makes me looking forward to reading the rest of his storyline.

 

Obviously, his appearance in TGS was completely unnecessary and should have been cut; likewise, if Galad's prologue part had occured in TGS, the cliffhanger effect would have had more of an impact. But overall, I think this chapter shows that Perrin will experience some serious character development during TofM. Excluding the parts in TGS (which, in this particular chapter, was just being repeated, I cannot understand the Perrin-hate.

 

Give him the benefit of a doubt before you've read the book. I did not like him in TGS; now, it looks like my very favorite character will make a strong comeback!

 

I gave him a lot of rope since PoD (I think or maybe even earlier earlier) and he hung me with it so far. If Perrin goes through some earth-shattering revelation and change it's better be something very, very cool - like Faile is DF and he was fooled all along (and I like Faile actually). He decides to turn his life around and goes revenge hungry, Monte Cristo style on all DF's asses. Than I might be like "well, I see you learned your lesson of making someone else's life a center of you gravity (referring to Faile here)." But my bet it's something like "i need to lead these people. if not me than who? if not now than when?" he should have gotten this sh%t like 3 books ago. :brething heavily: I guess i'm just venting here. I just thought that after getting Faile back he would be OK and return to being tSR Perrin that though not liking what he had to do still did it because it was right! But instead he needs a freaking therapist to solve his blacksmith puzzle! !

[NetSlider]

Good points by both Luckers and Tenesmus! The Galad situation would have been much more effective if we had seen him getting captured and waiting for torture and/or execution in tGS. As it was now, it felt kind of... cheap, although it was well written. Captured and released, in the blink of an eye. Also, the chapter with Perrin and the wagons in tGS, in retrospect, feels even less necessary, when we know that a Bubble of Evil occured in his camp, and the two Asha'man were bitten by mud snakes. Could easily have been a cooler scene than the one with endless chattering about wagons, that in reality served the same end, delaying Perrin...

 

I liked the chapter, though. Especially Faile. Never thought I would write this. After her rescue from the Shaido she has managed to do some good. Killing the Prophet was a blessing to the forces of the Light. A rabid dog can turn against anyone! And now she makes sense, when talking to Perrin. This is something new. The world is in chaos, obviously.

 

Galad? The man is a natural born hero. I'm beginning to wonder though if he could be Ta'veren or a future Hero of the Horn or something like that, the way the Lord Captains suddenly turned against Asunwa, killing Questioners and fellow Whitecloaks in the process, just to save him.

 

You know, I actually kind of like the whole capture and release in the same book. Call it "Faile Effect" but more and more I want action and progress and it seemed kind of appropriate. If they would not make a quick decision and got him out at once they would never got him out. Seems more realistic this way.

As for Faile - I agree (but than I always liked her for some reason, it's Perrin that needs to man up; i know, i know i'm repeating myself) but in regards to Prophet, I've always had this image of Rand going completely pissed off when he finally meets him again and kills him with his own hand. A message to anyone trying to curve up a religious empire from Rand's legacy!

[Hemis AlRhoid]

I agree with Netslider--not necessarily that we saw the Snakes on the Plane, but maybe the aftermat. If this POV began in the sicktents with Perrin speaking to an exhuasted Seonid and her explaining how despite healing those bitten were suffering... that would have been cool. As it was, it was telling, not showing. A major no-no in writing.

 

If Brandon needed this to happen, he needed to show it. Otherwise he needed to cut it. The sloppy way it was revealed to us, added to the Asha'men's long winded explanation as to why they can't travel in tGS, forgetting the ability to tie off weaves... it just felt like a clumsy 'I needed Perrin to Not-Travel'. It wasn't the only thing--Faile's big reveal of Perrin's Instant Army felt much the same. Blunt.

 

This is part of why I maintain Perrin should have been cut from tGS entirely. Galad should have been in tGS, with one or two more scenes prior to Asunawa dying, and the space left in ToM should have been dedicated to what occured in this chapter alone--it should have been expanded to show the sick and injured, thereby explaining the lack of travelling. It should have been expanded to show the Army, in person. Both things could have been done and have been interesting whilst progressing the story without the sense of 'Infodump'

 

I agree that Perrin should have been simply cut from the TGS. But I echo what others have been saying. Exposition on some of these details just isn't necessary. We've been shown bubbles of evil onscreen several times. We know the Pattern has been bending Perrin into not traveling. So in TGS the Asha'man's explanation of why they can't travel is "long winded" yet we're complaining that not enough time is being spent on why they can't travel now? As to whether this "clumsy" handling of this is Jordan's writing or Brandon filling in the gaps, we'll probably never be sure of. I'll reserve judgment as to whether I think more pages could have been spent on these things when I get the novel finished. The overall pacing and what gets covered will determine to me whether I feel "cheated" that these events were glossed over.

 

I think we'll see more and more of this as we build to the finish. The sheer magnitude of what needs to be covered will sideline small events that may have otherwise gotten screen time. It's unavoidable. And honestly it's necessary. As much as I love the WoT, its pacing suffered greatly prior to TGS. It was being suffocated by trying to maintain the same level of detail with multiple main character groups in the later novels as it did when it focused on a core character group early on.

 

Overall I'm satisfied with the taste we've gotten from the first 2 chapters and the prologue. I can agree with the criticisms of the Whitecloak/Galad resolution more than any other, but will reserve my ultimate judgment until I see how these pieces fit into the whole.

[Tenesmus]

WRT the A'M Travelling problems, they don't know the Pattern is causing this, so the explanations sound lame, etc. But, if you recall Verin's problems in TGS, they were handled better, because she could come straight out and say that the Pattern was pulling her, becasue she is... well... she's Verin and she knows these things.

 

This also leads me to think Verin will show up and explain this to Perrin with all the subtlety of a 2x4 to the nutsack.

[nuclearunderpants]

I'm not sure I can agree that Perrin should have been cut from TGS, though I can sympathize with those who feel that way. By the time Gathering Storm was released it had been four years from the previous release. Can you imagine the uproar that would have ensued if we had been forced to wait another year for anything having to do with Perrin or Mat?

 

Though they weren't necessary in moving the book itself forward, their inclusion was important to remind readers(mainly casual readers, I can't think any of us here would forget them) that they are still around and what they are up to.