Minor Spoilers From Later in ToM + Glossary

[Terez]

There are some interesting reveals from Larry at rafo.com, and both Larry and Pat at Westeros. I posted a summary (with links) at Theoryland. There are some review-type spoilers...and one huge teaser that we weren't sure about until now.(Since Luckers made this the OP, I've copied over everything.)

 

From the OF blog:

 

I will not be revealing anything of a spoilerish nature until November 2, the book's scheduled US release date. I will note that there are 861 pages in this book and that glancing at the very end of the book, it's surprising. Might read it this weekend rather than next weekend, as I had originally planned, just on the basis of those final scenes, so I can see how it reached to that point. But outside of that, mum shall be the word, as I have already promised elsewhere.

 

...

 

The style is noticeably different, that's for certain. That's not necessarily a bad thing, however. First 70 pages done already. Only 791 to go :P

10/15/2010 5:31 PM

 

...

 

Oh, and a warning to those who like to read the Glossary first: Don't. You will find a single entry that spoils not just a long-awaited revelation, but also a major, major event in ToM.

10/16/2010 10:10 AM

 

And from rafo.com:

 

...after 120 pages, there's already been a surprising reveal and a foreshadowing that will provoke quite a bit of discussion before AMoL is released. There are some nice new adds as well, but the change in writing style is very noticeable. But considering how I often loathed RJ's garrulous prose, that's not such a bad thing, but some who complained about the shift in TGS will not be pleased, I suspect.

Would you say the writing style is close to TGS or has Sanderson managed to move closer to RJ's style in TOM (so far)?

It's further apart than in TGS' date=' but some of that is due to a LOT being crammed in. There are some really surprising reveals so far. Things for the immediate story...and possible future events.

Now send me a private message to tell me what Rand and Egwene talked about

Just think about belief and order a bit...Their initial scene is very short, third chapter. The hint...should lead the way, although I think there's more to it than just that. It's not concluded in ToM. It just builds to something at the very end, setting up AMoL, that's all.

....roughly how many chapters does Rand have, how many chapters Egwene has, Mat, Perrin etc. I seem to recall BS saying that this would be Mat&Perrin heavy book with Rand&Egwene having a small role, but I would like to know how small. Did you end wishing that you would have seen more of those two? Or were you satisfied with what you got?

I'm only 160 pages into it and won't finish it tonight...I think. I will say that there are alternating chapters/scenes and it feels mostly right so far.

 

...

 

It's a surprising book in many ways...And I think Sanderson could have said "a small thing from The Dragon Reborn has repercussions in one major subplot in this book."

Does this refer to Brandon's 'small unnoticed detail in books 4-6'? Do you think it is more open to interpretation than we previously believed, or are you talking about something else?

Something else. But it completes a major character's arc spanning several volumes.

(from rafo.com) Could the item we missed from TDR be He "shall slay his people with the sword of peace, and destroy them with the leaf."?

No. Although there is something else, from The Shadow Rising, that deals with a few scenes in ToM.

Without going into specifics, how did you like the ending? Does it compare favorably with that of TGS?

 

Do Rand and Egwene have major roles in the book?

 

Does ToM deliver the same number of iconic/memorable/major scenes as TGS did?

I don't read in a lineal fashion, so I'm only 50% done. But having read several of the major plotlines, the ending is different. That's all I'll say on that.

 

Memorable scenes? About the same, maybe more, depending on which characters you enjoy the most.

 

Yes, they have major roles but not major numbers of chapters.

Damn. I bet we're in for a cliffhanger.

RAFO?

 

...

 

Warning for everyone who reads the glossary first...Do not read the Glossary at all until you have finished the book. One entry alone spoils not only the long-anticipated murder question, but gives away a huge plot development in ToM. Thankfully, I didn't read it until I had skipped around a bit and had already read the relevant scenes (which some might view as being awesome).

The entry about Slayer (or Luc/Isam)!

Maybe, maybe not...But the important number is three.

Do you think RJ was right in saying that we had all the info we needed to piece together the culprit's identity at the end of TFoH?

Some found it so...Others would have referred to things from the next couple of books.

blah blah blah this rules out everyone except for Graendal and Taim.

I re-read the first nine volumes this spring for the first time in 10 years. I might have implied something too specific; there's some clues through at least the ninth volume.

After reading Towers of Midnight, do you feel confident that the series can be adequately concluded in A Memory of Light?

Yes.

Which is the better book, TGS or ToM? Feel free to wait until you've finished completely if you'd like.

Thematically, TGS. But for those who like "stuff happening," ToM will offer quite a bit of that.

 

From Westeros:

 

I'm of two minds so far, now that I'm 300+ pages into it. Information-wise, I think WoT fans will eat this up. Writing, however, might divide the WoT fanbase. There will be several moments that "feel wrong" in terms of how characters talk, interact, etc., but so far, it mostly works. But enough of this, as I'm not writing my review until midnight of the release date :P

Hopefully you can respond to this question.

 

"Feel wrong" in the sense of how Rand and Egwene "felt wrong" in TGS (which would be good for me, because I didn't think they felt wrong at all), or "felt wrong" in the sense of Mat (which would be bad for me, because I definitely thought this character was off)?

More like in the sense that there's something "off" in how quickly some act, how their scenes aren't as elaborate in their descriptions, things like that. There are a few cases where the overly-done descriptions appear and in many of those cases, it wouldn't surprise me if that's where Sanderson left the original writing alone for the most part.

 

Oh, and a word of warning to everyone who reads the Glossary first: Don't. You will be spoiled in one entry, not just for a long-awaited revelation, but in that same entry, for a ToM-specific event that many will find to be a very cool scene. Just a heads-up without revealing anything else.

Is Mat truly back, as Jason trumpeted earlier? I have faith in your opinion on this one, as I just reread your TGS review and it fit my opinion quite well (the prose issue aside).

It varies. Near the beginning, it's very different, but by the end, it's similar to say CoS's final scenes in the character depicted.

[re: Pat's comments below] So I take it Jason was wrong when he said that Perrin was awesome in this book? After the horror that was his CoT review, I suppose this isn't a big deal.

He was fine. I can understand (I think) why Pat didn't like his character, but I found it to be interesting for the most part.

A little more than 100 pages into it, and the narrative voice has changed since TGS. In the last book, Sanderson, though he was using his own writing style, seemed to be trying to emulate Jordan's own. In ToM, it definitely is a Sanderson book. Can't say yet whether or not it's a good thing at this point. . .

 

[re: the character voices]I have to agree with you thus far, Larry.

 

Everything works for the most part, other than one important scene I can't mention, or the Morgase POV chapter. That was just awful. . . :ack:

 

...

 

Sadly, you can also add Lan to the list of characters Sanderson can't quite do. . .

 

...

 

By the way, Perrin MUST die. . .

 

Can't stand him anymore. . . And I'm hating him more and more as ToM progresses. . .

 

From Theoryland:

 

The comments quoted in this thread, taken from responses to questions posted on the RAFO WoT board, are not as straightforward as you might think; the presumptions and questions that follow indicate that, nor did I confirm anything concrete beyond what I thought of the author's writing style and that it would behoove readers not to read the Glossary until the very end of the story.

 

As for the hints, well...I would say they are less direct than what the author himself has said, but then again, some people are more paranoid about those than anything else. I am done with the book and while I am indeed not someone who cared all that much for the WoT series from 2000-2009 (and only a little after that, I suppose), I will just note that ToM was an uneven book in terms of writing/style and that some people will enjoy how some scenes unfold while others will dislike those exact scenes. Now if saying that and that certain things are revealed to have new importance is "spoilery," then I guess publishers ought to stop sending review copies to reviewers who have more than a single book a year to review?

 

And from this thread (like, the one you are looking at):

 

...from what Larry originally said, the glossary spoiler obviously reveals Asmo's killer, so it seems unlikely that the ToM specific spoiler can run too far afield from that

 

It does run far afield from that. Very far.

 

There's also been more than one murder in this series, I should note ;)

 

Oh, and that's about it. Won't confirm which speculations are closer to reality ;)

[Luckers]

Requested by Pandemonium based on some comments by Larry at rafo.com

 

 

 

"Do not read the Glossary at all until you have finished the book. One entry alone spoils not only the long-anticipated murder question, but gives away a huge plot development in ToM. Thankfully, I didn't read it until I had skipped around a bit and had already read the relevant scenes (which some might view as being awesome). "

 

Later in a reply someone asks if it was Slayer and he says:

 

"Maybe, Maybe not But the important number is three."

 

In another reply he says:

 

"And I'll note that it's a plausibility issue and things revealed here [in the glossary?] deal with the killer's modus operandus."

 

Someone asked if the killer's identity could be pieced together from clues from TFOH only. His reply:

 

"Some found it so. Others would have referred to things from the next couple of books."

 

The theorylanders have also been discussing it.

 

Larry over at Readandfindout.com has a ToM review copy and posted a few minor details in this thread:

 

 

Quote:

[Rand and Egwene's] initial scene is very short, third chapter.

 

Quote:

Do not read the Glossary at all until you have finished the book. One entry alone spoils not only the long-anticipated murder question, but gives away a huge plot development in ToM.

 

[Elend]

Thanks for the posts. My lurking on Westeros revealed some of this, but I'm glad to see even more. Awesome stuff, kinda sad the scene doesn't happen in chapter 2 though.

[Cyf]

My silly guess on the plot development?

 

Moiraine's entry will list her as being Turned by 13 Myrddraal. Either that or Olver's listing something major, like he was possessed by the spirit of Gaidal Cain in ToM. (I actually think this would neatly solve all the hints that he is Gaidal with the statement that Olver is not Gaidal. Loony, but hey.)

[Barid Bel Medar]

The key is number 3 eh?

 

A few things to do with 3.

 

1. The Eelfinn's 3 wishes.

 

2. A circle of 3. Graendal and others were going to link to fight Rand.

 

3. Rand's 3 women. Possible that it was Aviendha ? (not really, just thinking anything to do with 3 )

 

4. Messana, Semirhage, Demandred alliance. One of them?

 

5. Reference to the 3rd book tDR.

 

6. 3 shall become one?

 

7. 3 taveren?

 

I dont really know, jsut a few things that come to mind with the number 3.

[A. Pseudonym]

So Sandersons inability to write the characters is even more pronounced in ToM? Have I read that correctly?

 

[Asha'man Handsome]

So Sandersons inability to write the characters is even more pronounced in ToM? Have I read that correctly?

 

 

I read it as more along the lines of BS didn't really have the time to Jordanise the scenes (i.e. make them go for ages) because things like characters acting too quickly etc are mentioned. You could, however, be right with the Morgase POV mentioned.

 

I guess we'll just have to RAFO.

 

Personally, I won't be complaining too much about any vast differences. I know that BS is different to RJ and my main concern now is that this thing simply unravels in the way that it was intended to by RJ.

[MattTaz]

So Sandersons inability to write the characters is even more pronounced in ToM? Have I read that correctly?

 

 

I read it as more along the lines of BS didn't really have the time to Jordanise the scenes (i.e. make them go for ages) because things like characters acting too quickly etc are mentioned. You could, however, be right with the Morgase POV mentioned.

 

I guess we'll just have to RAFO.

 

Personally, I won't be complaining too much about any vast differences. I know that BS is different to RJ and my main concern now is that this thing simply unravels in the way that it was intended to by RJ.

 

Reading TGS I was really 'looking' for the differences in writing styles between BS & RJ.

There different authors, different styles. Just the way it is - shrugs

One of the things I noticed in TGS was the characters acted more maturely, no sniffing, tugging of braids, men-bashing

I actually liked it, and hope it continues :)

[Raistlin]

That is a great post terez!

[sdboka]

magic number is 3? Then it is probably the Finn AND Moiraine

 

These are my thoughts on Barid Bel Medar's list

 

2. A circle of 3. Graendal and others were going to link to fight Rand. -Impossible they are in chaos when Asmo was roadkilled. Also I doubt they will all fit inside the pantry

 

4. Messana, Semirhage, Demandred alliance. One of them? - If only one of them killed Asmo then it wouldn't be 3 after all

 

5. Reference to the 3rd book tDR. -Probably since Larry said that something small in tDR has a huge effect on the major plot in ToM

 

6. 3 shall become one? -Spice Girls

 

7. 3 taveren? -Rand is unaware of Asmo's whereabouts

[Barid Bel Medar]

magic number is 3? Then it is probably the Finn AND Moiraine

 

These are my thoughts on Barid Bel Medar's list

 

2. A circle of 3. Graendal and others were going to link to fight Rand. -Impossible they are in chaos when Asmo was roadkilled. Also I doubt they will all fit inside the pantry

 

4. Messana, Semirhage, Demandred alliance. One of them? - If only one of them killed Asmo then it wouldn't be 3 after all

 

5. Reference to the 3rd book tDR. -Probably since Larry said that something small in tDR has a huge effect on the major plot in ToM

 

6. 3 shall become one? -Spice Girls

 

7. 3 taveren? -Rand is unaware of Asmo's whereabouts

 

I think you are taking it tooo literally.

 

Graendal was to be a part of the link of 3. So she could have been in caemlyn for that.

 

You seem to think 3 means that 3 people/parties were involved in the killing. It does not have to mean this, all of the above are related to 3 and could be key clues to how and why he was killed.

[Scraps]

3 personalities of Slayer. Or Slayer is 3 people.

[Barid Bel Medar]

3 personalities of Slayer. Or Slayer is 3 people.

 

Slayer is 2 people.

 

Isam and Luc, thats the only two.

[GB]

number as being asmodean killer? glossary is in alphabetical order, could asmodean be number 3 in the glossary?

[sdboka]

@GB R(the glossary)AFO - lol

[yakaji]

number as being asmodean killer? glossary is in alphabetical order, could asmodean be number 3 in the glossary?

 

This was my thought exactly.

 

Darn you for beating me to posting it! (But from what Larry originally said, the glossary spoiler obviously reveals Asmo's killer, so it seems unlikely that the ToM specific spoiler can run too far afield from that)

[GB]

number as being asmodean killer? glossary is in alphabetical order, could asmodean be number 3 in the glossary?

 

This was my thought exactly.

 

Darn you for beating me to posting it! (But from what Larry originally said, the glossary spoiler obviously reveals Asmo's killer, so it seems unlikely that the ToM specific spoiler can run too far afield from that)

 

 

lol

now just have to try to think what that major spoiler could be, if number 3 = asmo's killer

[sdboka]

Aelfinn perhaps?

[Sharaman]

3= Thom, Mat and Harry Lime!

[KefkaPalazzo]

number as being asmodean killer? glossary is in alphabetical order, could asmodean be number 3 in the glossary?

 

This was my thought exactly.

 

Darn you for beating me to posting it! (But from what Larry originally said, the glossary spoiler obviously reveals Asmo's killer, so it seems unlikely that the ToM specific spoiler can run too far afield from that)

 

 

lol

now just have to try to think what that major spoiler could be, if number 3 = asmo's killer

 

 

Sesame-Street style: *In Grover voice*This murder was brought to you bu the number...3!

[Terez]

Keep in mind that the last few posts are from Pat of Pat's Fantasy Hotlist. He hated the way Brandon wrote TGS; his was the only notable review I read that was negative.

[Dylanfanatic]

number as being asmodean killer? glossary is in alphabetical order, could asmodean be number 3 in the glossary?

 

This was my thought exactly.

 

Darn you for beating me to posting it! (But from what Larry originally said, the glossary spoiler obviously reveals Asmo's killer, so it seems unlikely that the ToM specific spoiler can run too far afield from that)

 

It does run far afield from that. Very far.

 

There's also been more than one murder in this series, I should note ;)

 

Oh, and that's about it. Won't confirm which speculations are closer to reality ;)

[Pandemonium]

number as being asmodean killer? glossary is in alphabetical order, could asmodean be number 3 in the glossary?

 

This was my thought exactly.

 

Darn you for beating me to posting it! (But from what Larry originally said, the glossary spoiler obviously reveals Asmo's killer, so it seems unlikely that the ToM specific spoiler can run too far afield from that)

 

It does run far afield from that. Very far.

 

There's also been more than one murder in this series, I should note ;)

 

Oh, and that's about it. Won't confirm which speculations are closer to reality ;)

 

I like this game.

 

There have been multiple murders in the series, but most of them are accounted for.

 

The 1st person that comes to mind with murder is Slayer. Slayer has murdered many people and animals.

 

Most of murders in WoT are accounted for except maybe Barthanes, Sahra Covenry, and the random nobleman that Lanfear killed in her rush to stop Rand from cleansing saidin.

 

This is really interesting because it makes it seem like Asmodeans's death was one piece of a much larger plot.

 

Some ideas:

1. How Lanfear escaped Finnland and used her wishes (if she even had any). Lanfear said she was 'held' but she never said she was killed there. This plot could also encompass how Lanfear became Cyndane and the fate of Moiraine. And what of Moiraine's 3 wishes?

 

2. If Slayer was the culprit, then who was his employer?

 

3. How did Graendal find out about the death so quickly? What was Graendals motive if she did it?

[yakaji]

1. How Lanfear escaped Finnland and used her wishes (if she even had any). Lanfear said she was 'held' but she never said she was killed there. This plot could also encompass how Lanfear became Cyndane and the fate of Moiraine. And what of Moiraine's 3 wishes?

 

Very good point, though I'd never really considered it. What if one of them used one of their three wishes to bump off Asmo?

 

Lanfear, in particular, seems the type to carelessly blow a wish like that. "Oooh, I wish I could get my hands on that poncy little bastard Asmodean. This is all his fault, somehow!"

[Terez]

Slayer is not looking likely because of the comment Larry made about the question of whether RJ's comments were true, about the murder being solvable at the time of the murder. Larry said some might find it so, but some would point to clues from the next couple of books.

 

That pretty much narrows it down to Graendal and Taim, or maybe Sammael or Moridin (though the latter doesn't show up until book 7, and the former seems to exonerate himself in POV in book 6). Slayer is not mentioned at all in books 6 and 7, beyond a brief mention of Luc when Dyelin told Rand about Tigraine. Aviendha is in those books, but most of the clues pointing to her are in book 5. We get two short POVs from her, one in each book, but not much in the way of pointing to her being the killer. Lanfear is mentioned in connection to her disappearance and/or death several times, but nothing to really shed light on her being the killer (all of the evidence for her is from books 4 and 5). Same goes for Moiraine.

 

So, this is a major narrowing down. Better than what we would have gotten from Brandon if he'd eliminated a minor suspect.

 

Not that I care who killed him. I am excited that it will finally be over with, though. NO MOAR ASMODEAN!

 

Edited because I lose track of what I'm saying sometimes.