Will Rand Be a Badass?

[duncanwright]

AS others have pointed out, Rand was coming off an epiphany so the Zen-like comments are to be expected somewhat. Also, judging from the direct orders given to a peasant who has no idea that he is the DR (although it is obviously no longer necessary for him to inform people), I think that Rand will be in personality, what his 'normal' unstressed self would have been like, but with extreme confidence in his command decisions - the leader the world needs (of course) e.g. able to accept advice/recommendations, make rapid tough decisions, kill (or not) for the greater good without emotional upheaval.

He won't know everything, but he might be better informed than the Forsaken.

[Vermillion]

How would you act if you were a savior merged with thousands of past life personalities? Think he's going to act like a 22 year old heartless duty to the grave guy? His scope of life and has widened.

 

As I have said before. We will not likely have a Rand point of view until the next book or the end of this one. I think we will see him interacting through the eyes of others like in the first chapter but I think getting his PoV would spoil the book.

[Elend]

How would you act if you were a savior merged with thousands of past life personalities? Think he's going to act like a 22 year old heartless duty to the grave guy? His scope of life and has widened.

 

As I have said before. We will not likely have a Rand point of view until the next book or the end of this one. I think we will see him interacting through the eyes of others like in the first chapter but I think getting his PoV would spoil the book.

 

I tend to agree. We see Rand from his own PoV or those close to him so often we forget that he's essentially a living legend. Put one way he's a mage of unfathomable and unknowable powers that is incredibly intimidating to be around (except for the very stupid or those who know him very well). Like I alluded to earlier, practically every outside PoV we have of him finds him to be a very notable and impressive figure... unlike the Aes Sedai who just kind of bleed together.

 

This book, partly, could be about simply establishing who he is to other people, not just himself. I'd kinda like that.

[duncanwright]

How would you act if you were a savior merged with thousands of past life personalities? Think he's going to act like a 22 year old heartless duty to the grave guy? His scope of life and has widened.

 

As I have said before. We will not likely have a Rand point of view until the next book or the end of this one. I think we will see him interacting through the eyes of others like in the first chapter but I think getting his PoV would spoil the book.

 

How certain are we that he has all the knowledge (and can maintain all the knowledge) of the thousands of past lives? Or do you mean his merged personality only? In that case I would guess he would have the average hero leader type personality (since statistically he has a large sample of these) - whatever that is.

 

Though personally I would prefer if his personality did not change much but rather he came away with less burden from his duties, some ancient knowledge, more confidence etc.

 

It seems a bit tough on Rand to me that he should lose his 'this incarnation' personality to the conglomerate personality - though I admit this does not make any logical sense.

[Elend]

How would you act if you were a savior merged with thousands of past life personalities? Think he's going to act like a 22 year old heartless duty to the grave guy? His scope of life and has widened.

 

As I have said before. We will not likely have a Rand point of view until the next book or the end of this one. I think we will see him interacting through the eyes of others like in the first chapter but I think getting his PoV would spoil the book.

 

How certain are we that he has all the knowledge (and can maintain all the knowledge) of the thousands of past lives? Or do you mean his merged personality only? In that case I would guess he would have the average hero leader type personality (since statistically he has a large sample of these) - whatever that is.

 

Though personally I would prefer if his personality did not change much but rather he came away with less burden from his duties, some ancient knowledge, more confidence etc.

It seems a bit tough on Rand to me that he should lose his 'this incarnation' personality to the conglomerate personality - though I admit this does not make any logical sense.

 

If I had to guess Rand's statement about taking in the whole without being lost in the details is partly about keeping himself intact in the face of other Dragon personalities. Or it really could just be a statement to not take WoT too seriously :D

[Slick Mongoose]

Is Rand getting access to past memories something unique to this age?

[duncanwright]

I guess you mean "... to learn but not to be overwhelmed ..." etc. - I like this interpretation, to be honest I wasn't certain what to make of that comment by Rand.

[Tom Sawyer]

Is Rand getting access to past memories something unique to this age?

 

That's a good question. Hawkwing said that Rand would know all the stuff about the endless war if he could remember when he last wore flesh, thus implying that LTT knew all of this. However, nothing that LTT has said either in the book one prologue or statements he made in Rand's head seem to indicate that he knew anything beyond the one life he was living at the time - especially considering that his revelation that Ilyena would be reborn sometime too was a novel idea he hadn't thought of before. So, it doesn't look like it happens all the time.

 

Rand seems to know what the effect of his Super-Dragon abilities will be, however, so that would indicate that he has experience with these abilities and therefore he's been through this before. So, it looks like it does happen from time to time and this isn't a unique occurance.

[Elend]

I guess you mean "... to learn but not to be overwhelmed ..." etc. - I like this interpretation, to be honest I wasn't certain what to make of that comment by Rand.

 

Yeah, that's the one.

[Slick Mongoose]

Is Rand getting access to past memories something unique to this age?

Rand seems to know what the effect of his Super-Dragon abilities will be, however, so that would indicate that he has experience with these abilities and therefore he's been through this before. So, it looks like it does happen from time to time and this isn't a unique occurance.

 

But I think these abilities are simply a function of the dragon being well-adjusted and the last battle being close, rather than anything to do with his memories. Although of course I could be wrong.

[Vermillion]

Is Rand getting access to past memories something unique to this age?

 

Likely, not. I think it is part of the Pattern that every "Dragon Reborn" has the knowledge of previous and future dragons. At least the ones where Saidin is tainted if it's not tainted everytime.

 

I guess you mean "... to learn but not to be overwhelmed ..." etc. - I like this interpretation, to be honest I wasn't certain what to make of that comment by Rand.

 

When you combine that with VoG it's kind of hard to deny that there has been merging and that he has retained Rand like Mat has retained Mat despite the memories.

 

 

Is Rand getting access to past memories something unique to this age?

 

That's a good question. Hawkwing said that Rand would know all the stuff about the endless war if he could remember when he last wore flesh, thus implying that LTT knew all of this. However, nothing that LTT has said either in the book one prologue or statements he made in Rand's head seem to indicate that he knew anything beyond the one life he was living at the time - especially considering that his revelation that Ilyena would be reborn sometime too was a novel idea he hadn't thought of before. So, it doesn't look like it happens all the time.

 

Rand seems to know what the effect of his Super-Dragon abilities will be, however, so that would indicate that he has experience with these abilities and therefore he's been through this before. So, it looks like it does happen from time to time and this isn't a unique occurance.

 

I think it is only a "Dragon Reborn"/Champion of Light for the Age of Prophecy thing. There was no need for LTT to know this. They don't really let us know what LTT knew of his destiny or purpose. He likely knew he was Ta'veren and was a great man for his age. His age was destined to end in a draw. The battle put on hold until The Dragon was reborn and adult sized and seals holding back the Dark one and the Forsaken broke.

 

I think people often forget how much of a burden Rand has been under and the undertaking that he has done to make the world right. So many people making power plays, and manipulation while their whole existence is at stake. I view Rand as taking a short cut that started off walking through a thorn patch and then down a dark lonely path. What Rand did while in his darker moods were correct, but weren't the only ways and cancerous to his self and his own side.

[yoniy0]

Hawkwing said that Rand would know all the stuff about the endless war if he could remember when he last wore flesh, thus implying that LTT knew all of this.

Actually, Hawkwing said "You could tell him, Lews Therin, could you but remember when you wore flesh", implying that the heroes remember all of their lives (or enough of them, at least) while in tel'aran'rhiod.

 

For what's it worth, I'm of the the-epiphany-made-it-feel-as-if-he-remembered-everything-but-he-didn't-actually-and-won't-in-the-future persuasion.

[TeyedocOTW]

It seems like the crowd that loves "Rand with a Dark Side" is freaking out while the side that wants to cheer for a "genuinely good guy hero" is happy. I'd enjoy a good guy hero (and I FIRMLY believe he will still be badass, and hopefully just less of an ass in general).

 

Heroes with serious dark sides... quite honestly that never felt very WoT to me.

[NetSlider]

Is Rand getting access to past memories something unique to this age?

 

Likely, not. I think it is part of the Pattern that every "Dragon Reborn" has the knowledge of previous and future dragons. At least the ones where Saidin is tainted if it's not tainted everytime.

 

I guess you mean "... to learn but not to be overwhelmed ..." etc. - I like this interpretation, to be honest I wasn't certain what to make of that comment by Rand.

 

When you combine that with VoG it's kind of hard to deny that there has been merging and that he has retained Rand like Mat has retained Mat despite the memories.

 

 

Is Rand getting access to past memories something unique to this age?

 

That's a good question. Hawkwing said that Rand would know all the stuff about the endless war if he could remember when he last wore flesh, thus implying that LTT knew all of this. However, nothing that LTT has said either in the book one prologue or statements he made in Rand's head seem to indicate that he knew anything beyond the one life he was living at the time - especially considering that his revelation that Ilyena would be reborn sometime too was a novel idea he hadn't thought of before. So, it doesn't look like it happens all the time.

 

Rand seems to know what the effect of his Super-Dragon abilities will be, however, so that would indicate that he has experience with these abilities and therefore he's been through this before. So, it looks like it does happen from time to time and this isn't a unique occurance.

 

I think it is only a "Dragon Reborn"/Champion of Light for the Age of Prophecy thing. There was no need for LTT to know this. They don't really let us know what LTT knew of his destiny or purpose. He likely knew he was Ta'veren and was a great man for his age. His age was destined to end in a draw. The battle put on hold until The Dragon was reborn and adult sized and seals holding back the Dark one and the Forsaken broke.

 

I think people often forget how much of a burden Rand has been under and the undertaking that he has done to make the world right. So many people making power plays, and manipulation while their whole existence is at stake. I view Rand as taking a short cut that started off walking through a thorn patch and then down a dark lonely path. What Rand did while in his darker moods were correct, but weren't the only ways and cancerous to his self and his own side.

 

 

Interesting point. I wonder if LTT was Creator's champion? I mean we know he was a good guy but was he "the guy"? The Dragon is only a title as was stated many times. Rand seems to pass that now as he has access to all the memories and seems to be able to buffer DO from the world by himself. Maybe it's kind of like the Matrix (i know i bring that a lot but you have to see the whole savior thing) - Neo was not the One until he was killed and resurrected somehow. Just as Oracle said, maybe in the next life. What if LTT was kind of like that - a special guy, a great guy, but not the creator's champion. Rand on the other hand is.

 

 

[Slick Mongoose]

Heroes with serious dark sides... quite honestly that never felt very WoT to me.

 

For me, it was the hook for the series. The hero destined to go insane, save the world, and break the world. It's what kept many people with the series through the weaker books.

[DemandredFO]

Rand had is Darth Vader/Revenge of the Sith thing and the good guy is back. Darth Rand fans should get over it, the good guy is back, but he did use the TP and doesn't have the CK to balance temptation. We may see shadows of Darth Rand; I'm of the opinion he needs the True Power to reseal the prisoner. Lanfear or whoever discovered the DO must've sensed the TP only, sure it would've been mentioned in the flashback or something if they sensed a saidin/saidar patch.

[NetSlider]

Rand had is Darth Vader/Revenge of the Sith thing and the good guy is back. Darth Rand fans should get over it, the good guy is back, but he did use the TP and doesn't have the CK to balance temptation. We may see shadows of Darth Rand; I'm of the opinion he needs the True Power to reseal the prisoner. Lanfear or whoever discovered the DO must've sensed the TP only, sure it would've been mentioned in the flashback or something if they sensed a saidin/saidar patch.

 

The prison is outside the pattern. saidin and saidar are forces that spin the wheel thus creating the pattern. Is saidin and saidar out side the pattern than? We don't know (or do we?). I'm still convinced that Lanfear freed DO by using TAR in some way. I never got confirmation from anyone that TAR is outside the pattern as well, but it seems that it is after Rand's encounter with Moridin in tGS.

[The Fisher King]

One thing to possibly consider about how Rand comes off in this instance might be that we are not seeing Rand from his own perspective here, as we usually do. We are seeing him from the POV of a minor character that hasn't been in the series since the very first book in 1990. I bet once we are allowed back in Rand's head - and he gets a little further from DragonMount and the massive spiritual event he JUST experienced there - we will be exposed to a Rand that is much more familiar to us. Just a hunch.

 

 

 

Fish

[Phariah]

i think he will still be a badass. LTT was mellow pacifist dude yet was the baddest man on the block. i can see him like that now. i'm picturing a Shao Lin monk, all one w/ nature and capable of unleashing the righteous wrath when needed.

[Auld Manriva]

Do not forget, "oh-lordy-Rand's-a-hippie" folk, that The Dragon is The Champion of The Light. the Creator's Champion. So.. The Dragon IS a demi/god for all intents and purposes.

 

When I read the description of the figure coming from the direction of Dragonmount the very first mental image I had was of Moses. Then a bit further on I had this heart warming Johnny Appleseed moment, except Rand wasn't wearing a cook-pot as a hat. Too bad, that would'a been righteous and the caterwallin' that would've been going on around here would have been of Epic Proportion.

 

The Dragon can be equated in some ways to the Archangel Michael, who is, or is said to be, a "badass" of Biblical proportion. So yeah.. I expect some serious Smite'n goin' on from here on out. Never fear oh ye' of worrisome mind.

 

AGB... the dialog didn't bother me at all. He's still muttering to himself more or less as much as talking TO anyone he doesn't know. I didn't find it odd at all, just typical since Winters Heart.

 

Myself, I think Rand is beginning to realize the mistake he's made so far as expressed cryptically by Verin. LTT mumbled to Rand at one point that his failure was one of Pride I think. That and a couple other things kind of make me think maybe Lews Therin never did REALLY have a complete grip on being The Dragon himself.... could be wrong. I've said it here before, Rand is Lord of the Morning for real and he knows and accepts it. He's GONNA be different, at the very least on occasion, get used to it.

 

 

*** OH and just a bit of history for you young folk. Most of us Hippie dirt bags were NOT a bunch o' Quakers. Far from it. Balance children, Balance.

[Rinnsal]

I don't really know how he'll go on from here and that makes it really interesting. On the one hand it would seem strange (at least to me) if he went on fighting the way like he did before (Wouldn't that be a bit "I'm the walking light. You die."?), on the other I don't see him fighting only by pushing the DOs influence back, that would focus too much on one side of the coin (though it'll be one of hie "duties" too, I think).

[ChrisTrebing]

Rand will do what he must to win Tarmon Gaidon. I think the only difference between new Rand and old Rand is that now he actually knows what he needs to do. He will be a hippie if violence isn't called for and he will f**king behead everyone from Tear to the Blightborder if he needs to. Anyways thats my two cents, I think personality wise he will remain as hard as ever... at least until he meets up with *cough* a certain Aes Sedai later in the book.

[ladyofthelake]

Well, remember we have not seen him get MAD yet. and he still thinks he killed Graendal. And we are yet to see the repercussions of him channeling the TP. He may suffer a relapse and balefire Elayne, who knows we can always hope.

 

If he is a hippie i will sit in a corner and vent for a few days.

 

 

Agreed. As much as I joke about Zen Capt. Rand organizing the first Randland Music Festival, the Rand revealed in Chap 1 made me very worried. I hope it's just the after-effects of the epiphany on Dragonmount. If we have two books of demigod/prophet Rand spewing out airy philosophical exhortations------> wretch (repeat ad nauseum).

 

I don't think it was just his epiphany on Dragonmount. That epiphany left him determined to destroy the Choedan Kal and that was kinda like rejecting the dark side of the force. He still has plenty of kicking to do but his dark aura has lifted. ...or I could just be on drugs... ...but I want a kicka man with his head on right, the time for anguished youth is over.

[A2597]

I think the scene is not really hippie Rand at all. He's kinda lost in thought, but he's not some carefree "I'm off to see the wizard!" happy guy either. His stare made the farmer want to obey, made him feel like he wasn't quite up to snuff in his farmer cloths.

 

Rand now knows much more than he did, and is still in reflective mode "Shit, I screwed up a lot", but now knows how to force back the DO's touch, and is using that to full effect. He also grimaces at the thought of having to talk to some girl (Egwane? Elayne? Cadsuane? hey...that rhymed).

 

I actually read the "There are always things of use around, if you know where to look" line as being far more ominous. I think he still views people as tools for this war, maybe not in the total non-caring manner he did before, but Lan still marches to his death. Rand may give a few more troops to Lan's effort to make the ploy seem more legit, but I don't think he's going to help him. Actually...he may be referring to Egwane with that comment... he hasn't used the Aes'Sedi as tools yet, they have proven useless for the most part, and I think with his knowledge of what the Aes'Sedi are capable of he's going to go make some demands of them, and Egwane isn't going to like it at all.

[DottieGirl]

 

Was anyone else concerned by how smacked out on weed Rand seemed in Apples First?

Yeah, he had definitely smoked some of the sweet ganja. I was fully expecting him to start munching on some apples or become fascinated with something shiny. But I think you need to mellow out, Luckers. It's all good bro, it's all good. See it's all a part of his plan man. One through nine, no maybes, no supposes, no fractions. You can't travel in space, you can't go out into space, you know, without, like, you know, uh, with fractions, okay? What are you going to land on – one-quarter, three-eighths? What are you going to do when you go from here to Venus or something? That's dialectic physics.

 

Seriously, I think Zen Rand will still lay down the law when it's needed, but in a more judicious way than he has in the past. But I think he is better able to cope with the world now that he is more mellow. Now pass the toke.

 

Also, I wonder if his physical wounds will start to heal now that he's more positive. For instance, will the evils finally kill each other off and will the unhealable wound go away? Unlikely, of course, but maybe.