Min's Viewings and Other Prophesies

[EvelynneWeakley]

Throughout the books it's been made clear that Min's viewings are a thing of the Pattern, not of the Power. In the Gathering Storm chapter "Scents Unknown" Cadsuane, Min and Corele discuss her visions. Min explains that the only way her visions could fail to come true is if the Dark One wins and destroys the Pattern. However, it appears that the Pattern is already being warped. Following on from the events of Knife of Dreams and The Gathering Storm, we see the Pattern being weakened more and more as the Dark One's touch affects Randland. We see more and more "bubbles of evil," the dead walking, villages disappearing into the ground. This can only have been accelerated by Rand's excessive use of balefire to destroy Natrim's Barrow.

 

If the integrity of the Pattern is no longer assured, I believe we can no longer trust Min's visions. Certainly, if I were Elayne I would not be so confident about my survival until the birth of the twins. I would also go on to add that Min's viewings failing could well be the least of the problems facing our heroes. I feel we should be focussing less on millions of Trollocs and Dreadlords attacking the Blight than Creation itself unravelling.

[Xader]

*headsplosion*

 

wow...I never once considered that possibility.

 

Good thought.

[Crael123]

this means.... ELAYNE COULD DIEEEEEEE!!!!!!!

[Duskfire]

Throughout the books it's been made clear that Min's viewings are a thing of the Pattern, not of the Power. In the Gathering Storm chapter "Scents Unknown" Cadsuane, Min and Corele discuss her visions. Min explains that the only way her visions could fail to come true is if the Dark One wins and destroys the Pattern. However, it appears that the Pattern is already being warped. Following on from the events of Knife of Dreams and The Gathering Storm, we see the Pattern being weakened more and more as the Dark One's touch affects Randland. We see more and more "bubbles of evil," the dead walking, villages disappearing into the ground. This can only have been accelerated by Rand's excessive use of balefire to destroy Natrim's Barrow.

 

If the integrity of the Pattern is no longer assured, I believe we can no longer trust Min's visions. Certainly, if I were Elayne I would not be so confident about my survival until the birth of the twins. I would also go on to add that Min's viewings failing could well be the least of the problems facing our heroes. I feel we should be focussing less on millions of Trollocs and Dreadlords attacking the Blight than Creation itself unravelling.

 

Yeah Ive thought the same and I like the idea alot. Elayne, Rand, etc etc have to come to rely on Mins visions alot. If it suddenly turned out they weren't reliable anymore that would cause alot of problems and complications, and would definetly throw alot of haywire out there as far as us readers are concerned too. I think it would be awesome to suddenly have a character die who is not meant to. Not neccessarily Elayne but anyone really. Imagine if Perrin died when he shouldnt. Would cause alot of chaos. Would be awesome.

[Lisa Campbell]

Min's visions prior to this weakening wouldn't be affected though right?

 

On the Perrin dying theme even thouugh I don't think it's likely it would give Nynaeve an opportunity to practice healing it - if she happened to be taking Tam back at the time that is.

[Sharaman]

My interpretation based on the scene with Cadsuane, Corelle, etc, is that Min's visions are binary. They wil fulfil if the Pattern holds, even if its weakened. OTOH if the GLoD breaks free and destroys the Pattern, they will be totally busted. I don;t think there are gray areas where some of them come true and others don't.

[Lisa Campbell]

I got the impression that it was the visions relating to after TG that she couldn't guarantee...

[Barid Bel Medar]

I got the impression that it was the visions relating to after TG that she couldn't guarantee...

 

Yeah, its only if the DO breaks free. The DO is twisting the pattern at the moment, but so is Rand/Mat/Perrin.

 

Min reads into the future of the pattern, the Taveren twisting and the DO twisting is only a "bending" in the threads of the pattern, it can still be read.

 

Its only when the DO acutally DESTROYS the pattern.

 

Its like you can follow a road even if it bends and twists. Only when the road is destroyed you cannot follow it.

[FarShainMael]

Min has already had an ambiguous viewing, of Gawyn, while she is guiding Min and Siuan out of Tar Valon after the WT coup:

 

Gawyn kneeling at Egwene's feet with his head bowed, and Gawyn breaking Egwene's neck, first one then the other, as if either could be the future. She had never seen that fluttering back and forth, as though not even the viewing could tell which would be the true future. Worse, she had a feeling near to certainty that it was what she had done this day that had turned Gawyn toward those two possibilities.

 

She appears to be seeing a fork in the Pattern. What might have caused this ambiguity? none of the three ta'veren is present, and it doesn't sound like the effect of a 'bubble of evil'.

[Duskfire]

I got the impression that it was the visions relating to after TG that she couldn't guarantee...

 

Yeah, its only if the DO breaks free. The DO is twisting the pattern at the moment, but so is Rand/Mat/Perrin.

 

Min reads into the future of the pattern, the Taveren twisting and the DO twisting is only a "bending" in the threads of the pattern, it can still be read.

 

Its only when the DO acutally DESTROYS the pattern.

 

Its like you can follow a road even if it bends and twists. Only when the road is destroyed you cannot follow it.

 

But the DO is doing more then twisting and bending the road. All those locations suddenly changing; places like Hinderstap. That is permanent thread change right there. I don't see why its so impossible that the DO could do enough damage to the Pattern prior to him destroying it that it changes the fate of a few people. You can still put potholes in that same road your walking along, potholes that cause you to go around them :P But technically your still on the same road.

[Lisa Campbell]

The fork she sees could have a link with Egwene's ambiguous dream about Gawyn where there is a fork in the road and Gawyn has to choose and through one of those choices he will become her Warder.

[FarShainMael]

So both Min and Egwene can detect a branch in the Pattern; a branch which depends on Gawyn.

 

 

(I've just realised why.. He's wearing the Trousers of Time.. )

[KefkaPalazzo]

Well, it's not like Min hasn't had a conditional viewing before. Remember the viewing of Bryne and Siuan? Or Perrin and Rand?

[WMTom]

For those of you who want to see Elayne dead, I am sorry to bring this up. Min had an early viewing of the three on the boat over Rand. Elayne, Min, and Avi. This has been reinforced by other viewings / dreams. I believe it was the Wise Ones who stated "the Lion, the Dedicated Spear and one who sees beyond" being on a boat over Rand. I do not have the exact page, book or chapter in which this is stated. Min's viewing maybe failing lately because of the DO's influence on the pattern now but her early viewings still hold.

[FarShainMael]

From LoC14, courtesy of EncWoT, a Foretelling by Nicola::

 

"The lion sword, the dedicated spear, she who sees beyond. Three on the boat, and he who is dead yet lives. The great battle done, but the world not done with battle. The land divided by the return, and the guardians balance the servants. The future teeters on the edge of a blade."

 

The only trouble is, 'she who sees beyond' could as easily be Egwene, who has the talent of Dreaimng, as Min.

 

So it won't be Elayne who dies..

[flipsake]

That quote always puzzled me. Surely the lion sword is Gawyn

[FarShainMael]

Yes, he's Andor's First Prince of the Sword, isn't he?

 

And Avi's no longer a Maiden of the Spear, either!

[Sid]

So Gawyn, Egwene, and Rhuarc are chilling on a boat looking at Rand's corpse....

 

Rhuarc: Nice work, the Car'a'carn is dead. I have seen many foolish wetlanders since my search began, but you two... It is shame to even be seen with your like. (jumps into the water)

Gawyn: Here, grab my sword, I'll pull you up.

Rhuarc: (drowns)

Egwene: Shut up, I'm working on the hour-long condescending speech I'm going to give about this to anyone that will listen.

[Abutt]

"The lion sword, the dedicated spear, she who sees beyond. Three on the boat, and he who is dead yet lives." = Gawyan, Rhuarc and Egwene? Three on the boat... metaphorically, surely. and the last is Rand im guessing

 

"The great battle done, but the world not done with battle." = Tarmon Giadon over but battle still continues.

 

"The land divided by the return, and the guardians balance the servants" = The Seanchan dividing the land and the Asha'man and the Aes Sedai balancing each other.... conflict of some kind im guessing.

 

What I can get from this is this: the three major remaining powers (Andor, Aiel, and Aes Sedai) fight of the Seanchan after the last battle because somehow Rand is no longer able to and the Aes Sedai and Asha'man somehow balance each other...... I am probably terribly off but there it is.

[FarShainMael]

Or probably not..

[fborch]

Aiel won't be a remaining power. Only a remnant will be saved remember. The lion sword can easily enugh refer to rand though, being the son of ex-daughter heir Tigraine. It can also refer to andorans in general.

 

And a bit more ontopic: I don't believe Mins viewings is in anyway inaccurate. As long as the pattern remains, her viewings will be correct.

[Juggler]

he who was dead still lives - could this include people who have died but been brought back by use of balefire OR

 

He who was dead yet lives could be matt he did already die once. so Gawayn, Egwene (or any other dreamwalker) Rhuarc and matt in the boat then.

[Cazajay]

Here is one for you still on topic but not that bit of the Prophecy of the Dragon;

 

"he shall bind the nine moons to serve him"

 

Will Rand use the Oath Rod on Tuon?

 

Ooo and also,

 

"he shall break all ties that bind"

 

is Rand going to first get the Oath Rod and remove the binding from all the Aes Sedai??

[sdboka]

Why would he want to remove the binding from all Aes Sedai. I don't see any significant advantage that will do for Tarmon Gaidon. Except maybe that they will live longer like the Kin after the battle.

[jdbond]

he who was dead still lives - could this include people who have died but been brought back by use of balefire OR

 

He who was dead yet lives could be matt he did already die once. so Gawayn, Egwene (or any other dreamwalker) Rhuarc and matt in the boat then.

 

 

Elayne, Avi, Min and Rand...

 

 

Gawyn at best is first prince of Andor. Queen represents Lion Sword. As for Avi and Min, if you consider dead man who lives to be Rand (makes sense since Elayne is there too and all three are his "lovers"), other two women should be Avi and Min. Min is a suspect though since Min's viewing are around a person but Egwene sees significant future events (more profound and game changing events). Well it's all conjecture at this point anyways.