So, who hates them Aes Sedai?

[Grimmlocke]

So there's the question. What do you guys think? I mean, I tend to be more in the Hater camp than the Lover camp, myself. Snooty, pretentious women. I think my hatred finally solidified in The Dragon Reborn, during Egwene's Accepted Trial. That was pretty much all of the Gentling Ceremony I needed to see. I'd quote it, but my beloved copy of TDR recently died while I was re-reading it again. Maybe I'll get a hardback this time around.

 

Anyway, something about Rand commiting "The Sin of daring to touch the One Power", or something. Talk about pretentious.

[Arani Lepenque Aes Sedai]

I don't hate them, but neither do I really admire them as a whole. I voted "love" because I feel that they HAVE done some good in the world, albeit in a roundabout manner. Although at the moment their not perfect, they have the potential, and Egwene is going to use it.

[NetSlider]

I don't hate them, but neither do I really admire them as a whole. I voted "love" because I feel that they HAVE done some good in the world, albeit in a roundabout manner. Although at the moment their not perfect, they have the potential, and Egwene is going to use it.

 

Not to start a new discussion, but to me it's clear that if AS did their job well maybe pattern wasn't forced to spin out hero after hero to correct itself. I have to say I used to be somewhat ok with AS but after ready history on Hakwing - no respect left. And Egwene - don't get me started. Can't she see that what AS did so far was a freaking disaster (before the Aiel War included) and yet she still wants to "handle" Rand. The world is NOT united and the only power that has somewhat fair system is actually Seanchen (remember tinkers?) which only shows how pathetic of a job AS did. It took a 19 year old to say "Ah, guys..maybe we really need to look for these 'black sister.' Now I know it's hard, but please...guys, guys! we really need to do this!" For one i'm on forsaken's side when they refer to these women as "so called Aes Sedai."

 

Wow, can you feel my love for them?....

[Kaznen]

I think Luckers' treatise summed it up well. They could have done so much more but they decided to be petty.

[Durfee]

For one i'm on forsaken's side when they refer to these women as "so called Aes Sedai."

 

Wow, can you feel my love for them?....

 

Except, even when the Forsaken first came about the female Aes Sedai were incompetent. They refused to go along with Lews Therin's plans even after the access keys were lost and the other plan was doomed to failure, simply out of stubbornness.

 

Every now and then I'll find myself thinking, "Wow, these Aes Sedai seem pretty reasonable here, that's a decent plan." And then something else will happen, like Egwene, who is is supposed to be one of the few redeeming Aes Sedai left apparently, spews her garbage about the Dragon Reborn needing to be controlled.

 

I also don't get how they have all these "eyes and ears," yet often their information concerning Rand's actions are completely erroneous and thus lead to them seeing him as a threat to the world rather than its prophesied salvation. The only saving grace of the Aes Sedai, for me, is that I find the chapters centering around the inner politics of the Aes Sedai, especially where Egwene comes into play, incredibly interesting.

 

Eh, enough of that rant.

 

Oh, also, hi everybody. I can't remember when I originally signed up here, but I know it's been a long while and this is my first post in quite some time. I didn't really hang around enough when I signed up to become ingrained in the community, probably because I wasn't even halfway through the series, but now I'm working on tGS.

[OptimusPrime]

I don't hate them, but neither do I really admire them as a whole. I voted "love" because I feel that they HAVE done some good in the world, albeit in a roundabout manner. Although at the moment their not perfect, they have the potential, and Egwene is going to use it.

 

Not to start a new discussion, but to me it's clear that if AS did their job well maybe pattern wasn't forced to spin out hero after hero to correct itself.

 

I cant resist, sorry. It is not officially the Aes Sedais job to fix anything. No single organization could be given that kind of responsibility on a creation as vast and vulnerable as a world of humans. It would be easier if the prison itself was sentient and could control humanity without letting it know it was being controlled, which in a sense could be taken as a form of evil just like the Dark One in the eyes of, say, Ishamael.

 

Aes Sedai are alright, but I like the Ashaman better. The Seanchan, meh. Theyre alright but in a wierd way I still think of them as new to the fray in some ways. If the Wise Ones of the Aiel had been the other option Id have picked them faster than a fast man being fast.

 

Im guna have to say hate, simply because it feels less wrong than saying I love them. Moiraine, Cadsuane, Verin, Alviarin, Alanna, Elaida. They are my favorite Aes Sedai characters, the rest are simply a blur that I no longer take notice of just because very few bring pictures to my head of who the hell they are. They all feel like "Oh, yet another Aes Sedai whose involvement means nothing to me because I stopped trying long ago." Maybe one day I will start trying, but I doubt it. Finding out who was Black was always something I thought was a lesser point of interest than a lot of things. Sheriam being Black meant nothing to me. Nothing at all.

 

P.S. They should get their fingers out of all the pies! Love it

 

And I just have to post this...

 

[GYLD]

Except, even when the Forsaken first came about the female Aes Sedai were incompetent. They refused to go along with Lews Therin's plans even after the access keys were lost and the other plan was doomed to failure, simply out of stubbornness.

 

They refused because they believed that tampering with the bore could be as disastrous as leaving it alone. They were also right. As RJ has said, if the female Aes Sedai followed Lews Therin to Shayol Ghul, Saidar would have been tainted along with Saidin and there likely would be no world left for the Dragon Reborn to be born into if that had happened.

 

Me, I'm overall pretty fond of Aes Sedai but can recognize that they have many, many failings.

[Baletickle_to_da_face!]

I think the White Tower's mindset as a whole, and thier goals are almost all offbase. Meaning that I think that what they are trying to accomplish as a whole is off the mark, and how they go about doing it is as well. The way in which they try to bring order to Randland is wrong, and the mindset of almost complete stagnation is wrong.

 

Can't say it any better then I've heard others put it. Instead of being a part of the culture and leading in the way the Wise Ones do, the Aes Sedai set themselves apart from thier culture, and see it as controlling rather then leading. It really is almost like Aes Sedai seem themselves as herding sheep rather then leading a people.

 

There is also the problem of the stagnation that the Tower breeds. It's like they are in a loop self-feeding ignorance. They know what they know, and anything else isn't worth knowing.

 

Of course, on the flip side, you do have periphery goals of the Tower that work. Such as the basic one of finding, training, and giving structure to women in the world with enormous power. Because, lets be fair, without the structure that the teachings of the Tower brings, you very well might have chaos from random women having so much power.

 

Also, you can't deny that the Tower molds women of great character. Even if a lot of what it does creates a slew of overconfident, inffective windbags, you have women like Cadsuane, Suian, Moiraine, and others that were probably great to begin with, but given the tools of the Tower and the strength of thier character were able to become greater then they would have been without the Tower.

 

So yeah, overall I think the Tower as a whole is off the mark, but it does have it's benefits. One being that it has created a few very strong points of light that will make a big difference in the Last Battle.

[NetSlider]

Except, even when the Forsaken first came about the female Aes Sedai were incompetent. They refused to go along with Lews Therin's plans even after the access keys were lost and the other plan was doomed to failure, simply out of stubbornness.

 

They refused because they believed that tampering with the bore could be as disastrous as leaving it alone. They were also right. As RJ has said, if the female Aes Sedai followed Lews Therin to Shayol Ghul, Saidar would have been tainted along with Saidin and there likely would be no world left for the Dragon Reborn to be born into if that had happened.

 

Me, I'm overall pretty fond of Aes Sedai but can recognize that they have many, many failings.

Actually, from the Guide (i think) it looked almost as if LT was forced by other AS to make a strike at SG. He was against the whole brute force approach but when the access keys were completed he made a decision that before they can be used he needed to end the war. So it is ironic that female AS are all about making LT and men look evil and insane but it was them that had even crazier idea - use the keys against the DO. They forced the man, AKA LT, to make a decision b/c the alternative was even worse in his eyes. And guess what - he was right as we all can see now.

[Arani Lepenque Aes Sedai]

Except, even when the Forsaken first came about the female Aes Sedai were incompetent. They refused to go along with Lews Therin's plans even after the access keys were lost and the other plan was doomed to failure, simply out of stubbornness.

 

They refused because they believed that tampering with the bore could be as disastrous as leaving it alone. They were also right. As RJ has said, if the female Aes Sedai followed Lews Therin to Shayol Ghul, Saidar would have been tainted along with Saidin and there likely would be no world left for the Dragon Reborn to be born into if that had happened.

 

Me, I'm overall pretty fond of Aes Sedai but can recognize that they have many, many failings.

Actually, from the Guide (i think) it looked almost as if LT was forced by other AS to make a strike at SG. He was against the whole brute force approach but when the access keys were completed he made a decision that before they can be used he needed to end the war. So it is ironic that female AS are all about making LT and men look evil and insane but it was them that had even crazier idea - use the keys against the DO. They forced the man, AKA LT, to make a decision b/c the alternative was even worse in his eyes. And guess what - he was right as we all can see now.

 

Really? I didn't know that. If they had simply gone along with LT, there wouldn't be any sane channelers to speak of, because the DO would have tainted Saidar as well.

[NetSlider]

Except, even when the Forsaken first came about the female Aes Sedai were incompetent. They refused to go along with Lews Therin's plans even after the access keys were lost and the other plan was doomed to failure, simply out of stubbornness.

 

They refused because they believed that tampering with the bore could be as disastrous as leaving it alone. They were also right. As RJ has said, if the female Aes Sedai followed Lews Therin to Shayol Ghul, Saidar would have been tainted along with Saidin and there likely would be no world left for the Dragon Reborn to be born into if that had happened.

 

Me, I'm overall pretty fond of Aes Sedai but can recognize that they have many, many failings.

Actually, from the Guide (i think) it looked almost as if LT was forced by other AS to make a strike at SG. He was against the whole brute force approach but when the access keys were completed he made a decision that before they can be used he needed to end the war. So it is ironic that female AS are all about making LT and men look evil and insane but it was them that had even crazier idea - use the keys against the DO. They forced the man, AKA LT, to make a decision b/c the alternative was even worse in his eyes. And guess what - he was right as we all can see now.

 

Really? I didn't know that. If they had simply gone along with LT, there wouldn't be any sane channelers to speak of, because the DO would have tainted Saidar as well.

Oh, I completely agree with you on that. It was loose - loose situation. And the outcome would be even worse than it was. I'm not saying that they should have went with him, but that he wouldn't have done it if he was not pushed into b/c of the access keys. He risked the male half to save the world without even knowing it.

[Grimmlocke]

I don't know about that. From what I can remember of the Guide(and admittedly, it's been a while), the whole reason the Dark One was even able to taint Saidin was because of the relative incompleteness of the binding. If the women had helped, wouldn't the "patch" have been more akin to the original? How else will they seal the Dark One's prison so that it's whole again by the time the Age of Legends comes back around?

[sdelu]

For Grimm, from the Theoryland database...

 

Q: Why saidin, why not saidar, was tainted?

RJ: Because there were only men in the party that made up the party that made up the Strike at Shayol Ghul, that were setting the seals. In the act of setting the seals, there was a backblast that affected the people doing this. As I pointed out in something…I wrote a piece called The Strike at Shayol Ghul…there was a great division at the time – I don’t know if all of you have read it…or have none of you read it?

Q: Yes, yes.

RJ: Okay, then you know about the political struggles that were going on, and the different plans to try and end the War of the Shadow, and seal up the….and why various groups thought that one plan or the other was the best way to go. And in the end, what resulted was the so-called “Fatal Covenant”17 , which had the female Aes Sedai swearing not to go along with Lews Therin’s plan, that they would not support it. The result of this was that Lews Therin carried out his plan with only male Aes Sedai, so there were only male Aes Sedai channeling there, which was a lucky thing, because if there’d been women as well, then both saidin and saidar would have been tainted. And his plan worked, except for that one side effect of the backblast which tainted saidin and caused him and the men there with him to go mad there and then, and other male Aes Sedai to go mad slowly as they touched the Source and began to absorb bits of the taint. But that’s why saidar was not tainted, because there were only men there channeling during this act of sealing up the Dark One’s prison.

[Byzantine279]

Rj confirmed that if women had helped it would have tainted saidar as well, something was flawed in the method.

[NetSlider]

Rj confirmed that if women had helped it would have tainted saidar as well, something was flawed in the method.

which is another reason for a complete mindf### as to how Rand is going to do it!

[Jemlin]

Rj confirmed that if women had helped it would have tainted saidar as well, something was flawed in the method.

which is another reason for a complete mindf### as to how Rand is going to do it!

 

He'll sing a pretty song and all will be well.

[NetSlider]

Rj confirmed that if women had helped it would have tainted saidar as well, something was flawed in the method.

which is another reason for a complete mindf### as to how Rand is going to do it!

 

He'll sing a pretty song and all will be well.

BRILLIANT!!!

[Dagon Thyne]

I personally have a general dislike for Aes Sedai....

 

 

To me they seem to be very egotistical and pompous....

 

They beleive that the world could never survive without the White Tower guiding everything to what THEY think it should be....but without them, the DO would still be imprisoned and the Shadow would have never been able to get any type of grip on the world...

 

 

Well...it's mostly the 3rd age Aes Sedai that I do not like....If you actualy take the time to study the history of the WOT series...it's pretty easy to tell that the Aes Sedai in the AOL were more of a guild than a political organization like the white tower is....

 

In the AOL anyone who could channel was an Aes Sedai..there were no wilders....they all used their power for the benfit of mankind and not just themselves....It seems to be that the white tower Aes Sedai cares only for the tower itself....and I am sure that if the Aes Sedai were told that the DO and all of his minions would die if the white tower was destroyed...severak of them would choose to protect the tower over the rest of the world...

 

 

The thing that I dislike the most about them is that they have it in their heads that they own the one power....to them, anyone who dares to channel, even the other groups that are able to channel safely like the Aiel Wise Ones or the Seafolk Windfinders, have broken some kind of law...I find it funny how the tower in general considers anything tha they themselves are unable to do completely impossible....THe Wise Ones' ability to manual untie weaves, for example. Or the ability to heal severing...

[Durinax]

I hate the AS, their mindset is just wrong, they are more obsessed with their own legend and bickering amongst themselves than the affairs of the world. They gather intell on all parts of the world and then do nothing about it. instead of having a standing mobile force of AS among the blightborder they have a few sisters who wander up there occassionally. Instead of working to rid themselves of the negative stereotype everyone puts upon them they try ot enhance it by not being around and trying to amaze and play up their mystic powers.

 

And the worst of all they let two of the most powerful nations fall into destruction by not being there (Malkier and Manetheren) and betrayal.

[Arani Lepenque Aes Sedai]

And the worst of all they let two of the most powerful nations fall into destruction by not being there (Malkier and Manetheren) and betrayal.

 

For Manetheran:

That was not the fault of the Aes Sedai in general. Tetsuan, the Amrylin, was the one who betrayed them, not the entire White Tower.

 

For Malkier:

They didn't just sit by and let them die, they sent nearly a hundred sisters. But remember, it's a LONG way from Tar Valon to Malkier. And they didn't have Travelling. In this case, I really don't see how they can be faulted.

[Arkane101]

Anyone else see the stupidity in the test for the shawl..? The test to become Aes Sedai is 100% to do with controlling the power under difficult circumstances, yet to be Aes Sedai is meant to be so much more? Shouldn't there be some mental test, emotional test, intelligence test?

[GYLD]

Under difficult circumstances seems to be an understatement as that's likely how they do manage to gauge emotional and mental stability. That and successfully walking through all three arches says a lot.

 

Seems to serve them well enough. Even taking the Black Ajah into account, the only Aes Sedai that comes to mind that I'd actually call unstable is Elaida, and she at least has the excuse of being corrupted by Fain.

[HornOfValere]

I can't stand them.

 

I really can't.

 

They are a hugely flawed idea. It's not like they're actually guides to rulers or helpful to people, they're more meddlers who think they have the licence to rule the world.

 

The idea that anyone who can channel should grovel for their guidance or be stilled and sent on their way is disturbing and certainly not encouraging for the world.

 

More disturbing than that is that they haven't learned anything from history. Enclosed in their White Tower pulling strings is all they have to offer.

 

You would have thought the Two Rivers ladies would help break their arrogance and intergrate them into the world proper, but instead Egwene is lost up her own back end and Nynaeve is torn between babysitting Rand and her love of Lan. I want to see that Tower break and be rebuilt with the help of both the Ashaman and non-channelers.

 

To presume that because you have access to a higher power you should police the world is wrong and leads to tragedy and ignorance, and these women need to open their eyes.

 

So yeah, hate is a strong word, but I certainly don't like them.

[GYLD]

The idea that anyone who can channel should grovel for their guidance or be stilled and sent on their way is disturbing and certainly not encouraging for the world.

 

Fortunately for the world, this is not at all close to the truth.

[Duskfire]

Their ideals and their mindset is wrong, especially in comparison to say the Wise Ones. The Wise Ones are similar to Aes Sedai in many ways - especially the meddling - but despite that they have vast amount of respect from the Aiel society, something the Aes Sedai should definetly study in the hope of doing the same (Egwene would probably do something like this, I imagine.) And even if it just there meddling I guess I wouldnt mind, since everyone does it. What annoys me is their ignorance. For a society that is meant to be worldly and cultured they really know nothing at all, and alot of them also seem resistant to the possibility of something existing outside their knowledge range.

 

I do like some Aes Sedai: Cadsuane, Pevara, Verin; but they are also quite different to other Aes Sedai, but maybe I just prefer the exceptions in this case rather then the rule.