Galad's PoV

[fborch]

Basically, from my understanding of it, is that there are several degrees of the emptiness. The flame and the void experiences the basic version, while channelers get the whole thing enhanced by saidin. This enhanced state is what happens to Galad.

[Jim Millen]

Basically, from my understanding of it, is that there are several degrees of the emptiness. The flame and the void experiences the basic version, while channelers get the whole thing enhanced by saidin. This enhanced state is what happens to Galad.

 

Yup, that was my understanding of it too. I remember several Rand POVs where it's mentioned that saidin is enhancing his sight & hearing; as he's used the flame & void prior to channeling (for archery etc) then he should know the difference...

[Barid Bel Medar]

Basically, from my understanding of it, is that there are several degrees of the emptiness. The flame and the void experiences the basic version, while channelers get the whole thing enhanced by saidin. This enhanced state is what happens to Galad.

 

Yup, that was my understanding of it too. I remember several Rand POVs where it's mentioned that saidin is enhancing his sight & hearing; as he's used the flame & void prior to channeling (for archery etc) then he should know the difference...

 

I dont know where you get this from, there is nothing at all to suggest there are two forms of the Void....

 

As for the heightened senses.... yeahh.... thats from Saidin an Saidar. It has nothing to do with what we are talking about.

 

The Void is a mental state of equilibrium. Much like meditation, where time slows down and you are attuned with your body.

 

That is the prelude to holding saidin/saidar, but is not exclusively limited to channelers. the OP enhhances the senses, completely apart from the void.

 

The Void and holding the OP are separate things. Holding saidin with enhanced hearing etc isnt the Void...

 

In any case, Saidin doesnt work like that. Galad would have to be holding saidin, and he would notice it, for it to have that effect on him.

 

The void is like jedi meditation so to speak.

[redmid17]

Tigraine left a yound son in Andor when she went to the Aiel (lets assume this means Galad is maybe 6 months to a year old) Tigraine spent two years I believe in Aiel company before dying on Dragonmount, so that would make Galad 2.5 to 3 years older than Rand. Rand Is currently 22 so Galad is perhaps 24-25 if my assumtions are correct. That would put him in your range for channeling, can anyone find a quote as to the max age for male channelers to show the spark?

 

The quote is in New Spring. Here you are:

 

“But they do not know to look for a boychild,” Moiraine said. As hard as she had to be. “An infant will show no signs.” Not until he was sixteen at the earliest. No man on record had begun channelling before that, and some not for ten years or more later. “We have more time than we thought. Not enough to be careless, though. Any sister can be Black. I think Cadsuane is. They know others are looking. If one of Tamra’s searchers locates the boy and they find her with him, or if they decide to question one of them instead of killing her as soon as it is convenient . . . ” Siuan was staring at her. “We still have the task,” Moiraine told her.

[redmid17]

Basically, from my understanding of it, is that there are several degrees of the emptiness. The flame and the void experiences the basic version, while channelers get the whole thing enhanced by saidin. This enhanced state is what happens to Galad.

 

Yup, that was my understanding of it too. I remember several Rand POVs where it's mentioned that saidin is enhancing his sight & hearing; as he's used the flame & void prior to channeling (for archery etc) then he should know the difference...

 

I dont know where you get this from, there is nothing at all to suggest there are two forms of the Void....

As for the heightened senses.... yeahh.... thats from Saidin an Saidar. It has nothing to do with what we are talking about.

The Void is a mental state of equilibrium. Much like meditation, where time slows down and you are attuned with your body.

That is the prelude to holding saidin/saidar, but is not exclusively limited to channelers. the OP enhhances the senses, completely apart from the void.

 

The Void and holding the OP are separate things. Holding saidin with enhanced hearing etc isnt the Void...

In any case, Saidin doesnt work like that. Galad would have to be holding saidin, and he would notice it, for it to have that effect on him. The void is like jedi meditation so to speak.

 

The void/ko'di/oneness or whatever is more than what you think it is. You're right in the sense that it's like jedi meditation for non-channelers, but it goes beyond that for those who can tap the OP. Look at one Selene/Lanfear has to say about it in varying part of TGH:

 

"The Oneness," she said, sounding satisfied. She saw his questioning look and added, "That is what it is

called . . . in some places. The Oneness. To learn the full use of it, it is best to wrap it around you

continuously, to dwell in it at all times, or so I've heard."

 

"Wear this void of yours all the time, Rand al'Thor, and you'll learn uses for it you never suspected."

 

"It grows easier each time you do it, I've heard," Selene said. "The more you live in the Oneness, the

easier."

Rand glanced at her. "Well, I won't need it again, not for a while." What happened? I wanted to . . . . He

still wanted to, he realized with horror. He wanted to go back into the void, wanted to feel that light filling

him again. It had seemed as if he were truly alive then, sickliness and all, and now was only an imitation.

No, worse. He had been almost alive, knowing what "alive" would be like. All he had to do was reach

out to saidin . . . .

"You're letting yourself become flustered," Selene said. She seemed to have less trouble following Loial

in the failing light than Rand did. "Seek the Oneness, and be calm. One who would be great must always

be calm."

 

All these quotes are from when Lanfear was trying to get Rand to hold saidin. We know that Rand and every channeler can sense much more sharply when they seize the OP. There are actual references to other characters not being able to manage to get into the void (ie Perrin in TEoTW). It really wouldn't surprise me if the only people who could get into the Void were people capable of channeling, given the few number of people that actual mention or achieve something like it in the books. From this I'm pretty sure that Galad is holding the Source when he was dueling Valda. Otherwise Lanfear's insistence doesn't make nearly as much sense. If someone who can channel just holds the void wasn't holding the source, it doesn't really help other than sheer concentration. We've seen Rand do extraordinary things when holding the Void (eyeshots on the 5 Grolm at 300 paces or his duel with Turak).

 

Here's another example:

 

But saidin waited in the void. The thought made his heart leap with eagerness at the same time that it turned his stomach. But just as close as Egwene were those other women. Damane. If he touched saidin, and if he could not stop himself channeling, they would know, Verin had told him. Know and wonder. So many, so close. He might survive Turak only to die facing damane, and he 'could not die before Egwene was free. Rand raised his blade.

 

Turak glided toward him on silent feet. Blade rang on blade like hammer on anvil. From the first it was clear to Rand that the man was testing him, pushing only hard enough to see what he could do, then pushing a little harder, then just a little harder still. It was quick wrists and quick feet that kept Rand alive as much as skill. Without the void, he was always half a heartbeat behind.

[Barid Bel Medar]

 

All these quotes are from when Lanfear was trying to get Rand to hold saidin. We know that Rand and every channeler can sense much more sharply when they seize the OP. There are actual references to other characters not being able to manage to get into the void (ie Perrin in TEoTW). It really wouldn't surprise me if the only people who could get into the Void were people capable of channeling, given the few number of people that actual mention or achieve something like it in the books. From this I'm pretty sure that Galad is holding the Source when he was dueling Valda. Otherwise Lanfear's insistence doesn't make nearly as much sense. If someone who can channel just holds the void wasn't holding the source, it doesn't really help other than sheer concentration. We've seen Rand do extraordinary things when holding the Void (eyeshots on the 5 Grolm at 300 paces or his duel with Turak).

 

 

I dont think you understand. The Void is a concerntration thing and it opens you up to the OP. But it can be used by non-channelers. Lan does it. SO your wrong, its not only channelers that use it.

 

And saying Galad was holding the source? Seriously? Thats a bit far-fetched. Holding the source is not something you can just do randomly. Galad would have known.

 

If someone who can channel just holds the void wasn't holding the source, it doesn't really help other than sheer concentration. We've seen Rand do extraordinary things when holding the Void (eyeshots on the 5 Grolm at 300 paces or his duel with Turak).

 

What are you saying? it doesnt make sense. Its useless, but Rand does extraordinary things? Which is it?

 

Rand wasnt holidng the source while doing it.

 

Really, I am not sure what your saying to be honest.

[Cyf]

And saying Galad was holding the source? Seriously? Thats a bit far-fetched. Holding the source is not something you can just do randomly. Galad would have known.

 

I agree with this. I think people are falling into the 'I like this character so they must be uber' thing. If you hold Saidin, you feel it. The first time Rand did, he felt his bones freezing and burning (the trip with Bela). You sense the light there. Now I suppose Galad could have done it and it not been mentioned at all, but that'd be really sloppy writing. Also what Selene said does not equate to what you're saying she said. Oneness/Void is a path to channeling, certainly, but it's not two levels. The extra sensory stuff is due to holding the source. Not the Void. There is no 'Lesser Void' and 'Greater Void'.

[Galad]

 

And saying Galad was holding the source? Seriously? Thats a bit far-fetched. Holding the source is not something you can just do randomly. Galad would have known.

 

Except that it is something you can do randomly. Please recall that Nynaeve was channeling for years without realizing she held saidar. Presumably, it isn't an uncommon phenomenon among 'wilders.'

 

I'm not convinced Galad has (or can) channeled, but if he sparked within the last year or so he may very well have not realized it yet.

 

I suppose it could facilitate brotherly bonding between him and Rand, if Rand ended up teaching him.

[Sharaman]

 

And saying Galad was holding the source? Seriously? Thats a bit far-fetched. Holding the source is not something you can just do randomly. Galad would have known.

 

Except that it is something you can do randomly. Please recall that Nynaeve was channeling for years without realizing she held saidar. Presumably, it isn't an uncommon phenomenon among 'wilders.'

 

I'm not convinced Galad has (or can) channeled, but if he sparked within the last year or so he may very well have not realized it yet.

 

I suppose it could facilitate brotherly bonding between him and Rand, if Rand ended up teaching him.

No mention that Galad has ever been sick as a dog post the fight. Hence, no, he hasn't been holding the source.

[Galad]

No mention that Galad has ever been sick as a dog post the fight. Hence, no, he hasn't been holding the source.

 

Why would he have been sick? Rand's channeling-sickness process only lasted around a month. If Galad had sparked shortly after joining the CotL, he'd be well past that stage by the time he dueled with Valda.

 

Edit: IIRC, two of Rand's sickness incidents involved nothing more than giddiness and a feeling of invincibility that lasted an hour or less (the Baerlon incident, and the one on Bayle Domon's boat). That hardly constitutes "sick as a dog."

[captainburd]

Be that as it may, but that could really get too much for his character unless it causes a personal crisis that makes him more interesting. I had almost hoped that he'd get his looks partly ruined in the torture (yes, I'm that evil), but that gash he got isn't going to do much. He shouldn't be allowed to be THAT awesome.

[Lisa Campbell]

can anyone find a quote as to the max age for male channelers to show the spark?

 

I don't think this point is really relevant. If someone doesn't have the spark, age doesn't have anything to do with it (haven't read page 7 of this thread yet so sorry if already mentioned). Sharina is a perfect example. Unless there is something deeper to that scenario but I'm pretty sure she's not the only grandma to "learn" how to channel.

[redmid17]

 

All these quotes are from when Lanfear was trying to get Rand to hold saidin. We know that Rand and every channeler can sense much more sharply when they seize the OP. There are actual references to other characters not being able to manage to get into the void (ie Perrin in TEoTW). It really wouldn't surprise me if the only people who could get into the Void were people capable of channeling, given the few number of people that actual mention or achieve something like it in the books. From this I'm pretty sure that Galad is holding the Source when he was dueling Valda. Otherwise Lanfear's insistence doesn't make nearly as much sense. If someone who can channel just holds the void wasn't holding the source, it doesn't really help other than sheer concentration. We've seen Rand do extraordinary things when holding the Void (eyeshots on the 5 Grolm at 300 paces or his duel with Turak).

 

 

I dont think you understand. The Void is a concerntration thing and it opens you up to the OP. But it can be used by non-channelers. Lan does it. SO your wrong, its not only channelers that use it.

 

And saying Galad was holding the source? Seriously? Thats a bit far-fetched. Holding the source is not something you can just do randomly. Galad would have known.

 

If someone who can channel just holds the void wasn't holding the source, it doesn't really help other than sheer concentration. We've seen Rand do extraordinary things when holding the Void (eyeshots on the 5 Grolm at 300 paces or his duel with Turak).

 

What are you saying? it doesnt make sense. Its useless, but Rand does extraordinary things? Which is it?

 

Rand wasnt holidng the source while doing it.

 

Really, I am not sure what your saying to be honest.

 

Did you obtusely miss the part where I said I wouldn't be surprised if every person who could hold the Void could channel? And yes, Rand was holding the OP when shooting the Grolm and dueling Turak. Otherwise he would have lost. It's literally in the text I quoted you. Lanfear would not have encouraged him to do so otherwise. Galad

[Barid Bel Medar]

 

All these quotes are from when Lanfear was trying to get Rand to hold saidin. We know that Rand and every channeler can sense much more sharply when they seize the OP. There are actual references to other characters not being able to manage to get into the void (ie Perrin in TEoTW). It really wouldn't surprise me if the only people who could get into the Void were people capable of channeling, given the few number of people that actual mention or achieve something like it in the books. From this I'm pretty sure that Galad is holding the Source when he was dueling Valda. Otherwise Lanfear's insistence doesn't make nearly as much sense. If someone who can channel just holds the void wasn't holding the source, it doesn't really help other than sheer concentration. We've seen Rand do extraordinary things when holding the Void (eyeshots on the 5 Grolm at 300 paces or his duel with Turak).

 

 

I dont think you understand. The Void is a concerntration thing and it opens you up to the OP. But it can be used by non-channelers. Lan does it. SO your wrong, its not only channelers that use it.

 

And saying Galad was holding the source? Seriously? Thats a bit far-fetched. Holding the source is not something you can just do randomly. Galad would have known.

 

If someone who can channel just holds the void wasn't holding the source, it doesn't really help other than sheer concentration. We've seen Rand do extraordinary things when holding the Void (eyeshots on the 5 Grolm at 300 paces or his duel with Turak).

 

What are you saying? it doesnt make sense. Its useless, but Rand does extraordinary things? Which is it?

 

Rand wasnt holidng the source while doing it.

 

Really, I am not sure what your saying to be honest.

 

Did you obtusely miss the part where I said I wouldn't be surprised if every person who could hold the Void could channel? And yes, Rand was holding the OP when shooting the Grolm and dueling Turak. Otherwise he would have lost. It's literally in the text I quoted you. Lanfear would not have encouraged him to do so otherwise. Galad

 

I didnt miss it. Its wrong. Rand wasnt holding Saidin either time. He could sense saidin, but never embraced it. You might want to read the books.

 

Tam knows the void, Lan knows the void, all blademasters know the void. It doesnt mean they can channel.

 

Blademasters enter the Void in order to cut down their enemies. "The Flame and the Void" refers to the visualization of a flame in a void; all concerns - emotions, thoughts, even the concerns of life and death - are fed into the flame. This allows the blademaster to perceive reality as it is, in the present moment. Pain and fear become merely passing phenomena. The separateness of blademaster and enemy disappear. There is only the Void.

 

Rand al'Thor first learned the Flame and the Void from his father, Tam al'Thor.[2]. While in the Void, Rand excelled in archery, and he would later also use it while performing sword forms. Without the Void, Rand discovered he was unable to perform the sword forms effectively. Later, being in the Void's brought Rand his first touch of saidin.[3]

 

Lan Mandragoran uses something very similar to the Void, known to him as ko'di, to settle his mind during battle.[4] When he was teaching the Emond's Fielders to use their weapons, he was very surprised to find that Rand, a farmboy, knew the skill already. Lan specifically mentions that it is not exclusive to blademasters.

 

http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/Void

 

The void is not specific to channelers. It is a means to channel, thats why lanfear encourages it, but your evidence says nothing. Lanfear is a liar, her word is nothing.

[Musenge_09]

I 100% agree with Barid. It was very clear from the absolute beginning that the void and channelling were two separate things. There is no argument.

 

AS far as Galad channelling goes, I guess it's conceptually possible, but in the context of the series it would be a very lame development and poor storytelling. Imagine if at the Battle of Endor all of a sudden Han had gone "oh, I can use the Force too btw". And then Chewie, "me too *gnhaagghrgnaahgh*". And the Ewoks.

 

There's just been no foreshadowing of Galad channelling, and to introduce it now would suck, which is something this series does not do a lot of.

[Bob T Dwarf]

 

There's just been no foreshadowing of Galad channelling, and to introduce it now would suck, which is something this series does not do a lot of.

 

That's a matter of opinion. There's a great deal more suckage than most are willing to admit.

 

Honestly, can you really classify all the spanking, and sniffing, and skirt smoothing and nose staring downing as anything other than suckage? If Jordan had just cut all that crap by 90% the series would be about four books shorter and would have been wrapped up while Jordan was still alive.

[Barid Bel Medar]

 

There's just been no foreshadowing of Galad channelling, and to introduce it now would suck, which is something this series does not do a lot of.

 

That's a matter of opinion. There's a great deal more suckage than most are willing to admit.

 

Honestly, can you really classify all the spanking, and sniffing, and skirt smoothing and nose staring downing as anything other than suckage? If Jordan had just cut all that crap by 90% the series would be about four books shorter and would have been wrapped up while Jordan was still alive.

 

To put it in your own words. Thats a matter of opinion.

[nophone]

If anyone knows exactly how old Nynaeve is, it was mentioned in TDR that Galad is at most one year younger than her.

 

not exactly sure but i belive she's between 26 and 28

[Sharaman]

If anyone knows exactly how old Nynaeve is, it was mentioned in TDR that Galad is at most one year younger than her.

 

not exactly sure but i belive she's between 26 and 28

Nyn claims to be 26 and is touchy about her age - she's would prefer to be older and have more authority vs the Women's Circle.

[metaphor]

Whend do some people start channeling? Often, they desired something that they couldn't get, and someohow they managed to obtain it. What did Galad want? The whitecloacks to be united, and he hated Asunawa. What happened? The captains suddenly turned against Asunawa and started following him

 

 

 

I've always fancied the idea of Galad or Gawyn being able to channel. I don''t know how much of a relevance to the plot it could have at this point of the story, but it would be interesting even just as part of their character development.

[Rcurran]

I have always seen him as being one of the 'you don't have to channel to be important' characters but I like folk that can channel and wouldn't mind everyone getting a try at the old one power.

[Frostmuse]

Part of the reason why finding men who can channel is a bit difficult is because the only way to find the ability in a non-sparker/non-active channeler is to achieve some measure of the void/oneness. The scene where Taim shows how to test the men, they're made to concentrate very very hard and put everything else out of their mind. The ability to achieve void/oneness is very much an integral part of getting to saidin. Thing is, when they are in the void, saidin is there. It doesn't go hide-and-seek. Someone who's capable of the mental discipline needed to get to void-state without someone else forcibly shoving them there for testing purposes voluntarily would be about as likely to miss it once they're of channeling-capable age as failing a spot-check for an elephant in the room.

 

If Galad was a channeler, Galad would know.

[fborch]

Or they don't realize they're holding the power. Several cases in EotW where rand is holding saidin, unaware of doing so. The whitecloak thing in Baerlon, and healing Bela among them.