Discuss the Prologue

[ShadowsFell]

Just finished reading it (from www.barnesandnoble.com), I loved it, all of it, sooooo can't wait for the full book to come out. Graendal's POV was very well done, you could feel her fear; she's going to be looking for some pay back. Really liked Perrin's POV as well, his story line is coming to a climax soon I believe, with the Wolf thing. And the invasion beginning in the north...

 

 

Going to be a good book :)

[A Trite Pun]

OMG I KNEW Granedal wouldn't die. After all those POV's from her, I knew she wouldn't suddenly die off screen. And I'm very glad that at least Rand killed 1 forsaken and a black ajah member; otherwise, it would have ruined the emotional value of that scene. Also for the first time ever, I'm interested in Galad's story...can't wait until he finds out his sister is pregnant.

[Pilai]

TOO SHORT! Not that it wasn't amazing, I'm just used to the 75-100 page prologues I guess. I think the most moving part of the entire thing was the quote from Loial before it even started. I can't believe how much that short intro pulls you back into the whole story. It's also great to know that he DOES finally get a chance to write his book...and that he is the one to change the minds of the rest of the Ogier to stay and fight. I've always loved Loial so I might be biased, but then again I'm pretty sure just about everyone has to like him. The Graendal part I definately didn't see coming. I thought for sure she was toast, I guess I put too much faith in Nynaeve to recognize if the compulsion weaving was similar enough to the one she previously found. I was sure if anyone else did the compulsion that it would be instantly recognizable for her. I agree with the above by the way, Graendal is going to be doing some serious damage in this next book. I'm wondering if she is one of the reasons for the Chapter 8 references to Matt being ignored by Elayne? Although she thinks about his "dark haired" girl, so I'm not sure if she even knows about Elayne as someone to target to hurt him deeply. Anyone else have thoughts on that?

[Morgar]

So I bought the prologue at Barnes and Noble, very efficient and quick. How was it? BADASS. The Lan pov has been discussed before. The spoilerish pov that Brandon would not read had to have been Graendal's, which is set in the moments before the balefire attack. Quite simply it is an impressive segment. Perrin's pov was nothing new, Perrin is still an indecisive bastard even though I love the character I imagine he will be rudely awakened this book. The other amazing PoV was the simple Kandori tower captains. In and of itself it is what I dearly love about this series and why it is considered high fantasy as opposed to the lower variants, that being the care for what others might see as immaterial or too much detail.

 

10/10 I cannot wait for the new book. I will end with the Kandori's words to his son as they sit their death watch.

"Why do you draw your sword?

-"In defense of my honor, my family, or my homeland"

"How long do you fight?"

-"Until my last breath joins the northern winds"

"When do you stop watching?"

-"Never"

"Speak it louder!"

-NEVER!!!!

[ghenjei]

Damn you Amazon.

I want to support DM, but this is pissing me off.

[dfchang]

First of all, WHOAAAA.

 

One of the best Prologues I've read in a LONG time.

 

1. Lan's POV. Love the set-up. Shows how initially he's trying to worm his way out of his promise but eventually understands that this is NOT ABOUT JUST HIM. The Last Battle is here, the rules have now changed. EVERYONE deserves a chance to fight for his life, his family, his ideals, his home. I think as time passes there will be more and more until he can not deny them all and there will be the huge army that Nynaeve was hoping for when she set him on this path.

 

2. Perrin's POV. Again, love the Wolf Dream. Shows the burden and responsibility of leadership and begins the plot arc that will finally hopefully wind up with Perrin regaining his testicles. One of my favorite parts of Perrin's story arc in The Shadow Rising was his growth as a leader in the Two Rivers mirrored by his cat and mouse game with Slayer in the Wolf Dream. Looks like this will be climaxing in this book as well.

 

3. Graendal's POV. ARRRGH!!! Was one of the people in the camp that felt she died for real. Can't say I'm too displeased since it shows how truly smart and cunning she is. I've been concerned that there are in fact too many Forsaken lying around to deal with realistically in the last book or two so am pleased that at least Arangar got erased.

 

It does bring up exactly HOW Grandeal will meet her comeuppance. I mean, honestly, I thought Rand's plan in tGS to killer her was simply genius. For her to be so damn smart and paranoid to anticipate EVEN THAT . . . how are you going to kill her?? Can't wait to find out. Maybe Nynaeve will do it since we have the seeds planted in this Prologue of Graendal noticing and targeting her.

 

4. Galad's POV. I've always found Whitecloak-centric chapters a little tiresome but this wasn't bad. Feel badly for Galad's upcoming torture but I am looking forward to this eventually reuniting everyone with Perrin's group. I think this particular arc will end in Towers of Midnight with Galad meeting Morgase as well as Perrin and Bornhald and Byar finishing their story arc. I am 100% certain AT LEAST Byar is going to die. Looking forward again to Slayer questions being answered.

 

5. Fain POV. Nice that he can now make Mashadar at will. The Gollum parallels become more and more pronounced. I guess I'm SLIGHTLY disappointed in how we sort of just jump right to Fain simply moving to Shayol Ghul. I guess I expected him to be more of a nuisance yet after all the trouble he's caused but I can't argue with the logic. Since Rand has basically become impossible to find lately, the logical and most reasonable thing for Fain to do is just track to Shayol Ghul where he has a legitimate chance at both Rand AND the Dark One.

 

Still can't help but feel that he's slightly overmatched though. I mean Fain himself was just a Darkfriend hound and Mordeth/Mashadar while slightly more powerful never gave me the feeling that he was an evil of an order of magnitude to kill Worms and/or even come close to threatening the Dark One. His status as "wild card" outside the Pattern stands but I do hope for some more infodumps detailing exactly how/why Fain/Mordeth got to be so powerful.

 

6. Borderlander POV. Very touching. Did choke me up a little and shows the sacrifices at the ground level that the Last Battle will require. A lot of people and I mean A LOT are not going to survive this. Hope the main characters can come through unscathed.

 

Also makes me MAD AS HELL that the Borderland rulers took their f****ing armies away. I hope to dear God there was at least Forsaken level manipulation at work for such an act of MONUMENTAL stupidity and foolishness to be committed.

 

 

Overall, again a FANTASTIC Prologue and if this is the level of quality we can expect from Towers of Midnight, color me very excited. Don't know how much of this was RJ and how much Sanderson but I honestly can tell you that I can't tell the difference at all at this point.

 

Note that I JUST finished reading Brandon's 1000 page behemoth The Way of Kings and so am fairly steeped in his style. I've also been reading Wheel of Time since the very beginning (almost 20 years?) and have done multiple readings so consider myself a FAIR judge of Jordan's style. While I thoroughly enjoyed tGS, felt Brandon accomplished a near miraculous feat with it, and consider it one of the top 3 or 4 WoT books, I COULD tell some minor stylistic differences and "voice" issues during that novel. At least with this Prologue and The Seven Striped Lass, I no longer felt ANY moment that pulled me out of the story because of "voice" issues . . . another sign that Sanderson is definitely becoming more and more comfortable and bodes very well for this volume and the concluding (I can't even believe I'm typing this after two decades) volume.

 

Can't wait until November 2nd!

 

Dennis

[algspkr]

Awesome, I loved Graendal, and Fain was amazing. Can we have chapter one tomorrow please.

[Terez]

5. Fain POV. Nice that he can now make Mashadar at will. The Gollum parallels become more and more pronounced. I guess I'm SLIGHTLY disappointed in how we sort of just jump right to Fain simply moving to Shayol Ghul. I guess I expected him to be more of a nuisance yet after all the trouble he's caused but I can't argue with the logic. Since Rand has basically become impossible to find lately, the logical and most reasonable thing for Fain to do is just track to Shayol Ghul where he has a legitimate chance at both Rand AND the Dark One.

 

Still can't help but feel that he's slightly overmatched though. I mean Fain himself was just a Darkfriend hound and Mordeth/Mashadar while slightly more powerful never gave me the feeling that he was an evil of an order of magnitude to kill Worms and/or even come close to threatening the Dark One. His status as "wild card" outside the Pattern stands but I do hope for some more infodumps detailing exactly how/why Fain/Mordeth got to be so powerful.

There have been previous infodumps on it, which is why I wrote a huge long theory on it. It was made clear enough in the books previous that Fain's abilities were evolving as time went on, and RJ emphasized several times in interview that it was the fact that he was Padan Fain, Hound of the Dark One, that he was able to resist being consumed by Mordeth and emerge from Shadar Logoth as what he is now - or, the larval stages of it, anyhow. I was reluctant to argue the Mashadar angle, as it was so often dismissed out of hand (I did argue it from time to time), but I at least established that it was very probable that Fain had evolved to something far more dangerous than he was last we saw his POV in LOC...or even last we saw him at all, in WH.

[TheBeerPatriot]

I tried to give Amazon a chance as I followed the link from here. But when I saw that it was already available through iNook on barnesandnoble.com...I had to do it! And man am I glad I did it!

 

Very good prologue, definitely one of the better ones. The tone is tense and tight throughout. Lan's opening scene was well done, nice pulling in the boy from New Spring (this series never ceases to amaze me!)

 

Perrin's scene was very creepy, blending the wolf and normal dream. I loved the part where Perrin split himself in two while facing Aram during the re-hash of the battle of Malden. Pulling those figurines out from the steaming barrel was creepy and tense-it reminded me of the earlier wolf dream sequences he had, especially from TDR. Well done scene for Perrin, and I think it bodes well for his character in Towers.

 

I've enjoyed Galad's limited POV scenes, and this one was no exception. I liked how he tried to bulk up his men, only to have one of his scouts betray him. A chilling sequence towards the end of the scene, where he is beaten by the Questioners. I'm interested to see how that turns out...for Asunawa ;)

 

Padan Fain is badass, and it's been too damn long since we've seen him (has it really been since WH?) I'll admit that I was skeptical of him killing the Worm the "right" way, since the Worms seemed so foreboding and large in EotW, but hey the man is a wildcard as others have pointed out. I liked seeing how he used Mashadar to take down the Myrdraal and the Trollocs. I'm thinking Fain tries to take down Rand in Towers, and not wait for AMoL.

 

That Borderlander tower scene was very well done. Quite touching, with the commander handing his son the sword a couple of days before his birthday. The tension mounted paragraph by paragraph in that scene, with the news of the other tower giving a warning flash, then sending off messengers south. Then, seeing the Draghkar wheel overhead with the Trollocs descending upon the tower. The Last Battle has started indeed!

 

And that's it. And of course...

 

I KNEW Graendal survived Natrin's Barrow! ;) Very few though, had mentioned Aran'gar and Delana as possible foils for Graendal. Her use of the dove to follow Ramshalan to Rand's hiding place was nice. My question is, who will she go after first-Nynaeve, or Min?

 

This was a great way to sate one's appetite for the forthcoming book, and I'll be re-reading this prologue a few times before 11/2. Plus, it seems like we'll be getting Chapters 1 and 2 again before release. Woohoo!

[Jaric Mar Tedronai]

Cancelled my Amazon order to get the B&N version. Literally ordered from Amazon at 11 pm, 12:15 rolled around and it still said pre-order, and "Buy now and read in seconds" was staring me in the face on the other site. Oh well.

 

Anyway to the good stuff;

 

I think the Loial quote was cool, but overall he has just never been that important of a character to how I perceive the story. Just my opinion, as obviously he is very popular with many WoT fans.

 

I think it was Terez who said the borderlander's speech was touching, and I definitely agree. While the overall POV didn't get into as much detail as I would like, I think it was fitting in the way that the tone of the passage matched what we know of Lan; somewhat reserved, just a very directed personality I guess.

 

As to the Perrin part, as someone else said he is still the indecisive one. I wonder, do you think bubbles of evil can touch the wolf dream? Either that, or someone was manipulating it. I do not think his subconscious would have created a construct so seemingly evil. Also, there was the laughter, Slayer maybe? And Hopper booting him out of the dream. I suppose it could be because he was there to strongly again or whatever, because he is so emotionally tied to the wolf in him, but it would be cool to see another Perrin/Slayer fight in T'A'R.

 

I enjoyed the Graendal POV as well, and the ending fit exactly with what I had in mind for her. While I am not saying I predicted the exact method and outcome of the scene/plotline by any means, I will say I fully expected her to live since TGS came out last year. I said so several times in the discussions immediately following the books release, and am glad to see her development begin to come to a head. Not surprised Aran'gar ran to her, either, but also didn't see him/her/it dying like that. Still, at least Rand knocked off another Chosen.

 

The Galad thing was cool because it showed him maturing as a leader, and also as someone with worldly sense. Also, I personally feel it will be a matter of days before Perrin runs into them with his 100k, and sets him free and we get the big Morgase reveal and reunion. So he isn't in for THAT much torture.

 

For me, Fain has just gotten less and less interesting. He is an obvious wild card, Mat's "Something Else," but I'm not so sure I buy into the whole he will kill the dark one or whatever the latest idea is. Also, my official prediction is his "hunting" sense is now leading him toward Moridin (because of the B.F. link, obv.) and that is why he is hounding his way thru the Blight, gathering his zombie army. From his thoughts, it seemed like he was sure he was headed toward Rand, but unless this timeline has advanced, Rand is not at Shayol Ghul. I think we will see a battle at the fortress between Mordeth and Moridin. Obviously Ishy can call upon knowledge from AoL, and the True Power, but this whole Mashadar on demand thing is something to be reckoned with.

 

FInally, the Blightwatch thing was the classic one-off POV for a Wot book. A sort of look into the common people's lives. I liked how it gave us a lot of info on the procedures for how they communicate, and how he describes how the Blight was coming ever closer, to the point that some of the towers are now well within it. I hope we get some further info later in the book on them, you know like one of the messenger boys appears on horseback to Lan or something on his way to the capital, and Lan gathers the men from that palace that starts with an A and throws them back with a well marshalled defense of the entirety of the blightborder. He then takes his van, the elite, hardened core of Malkieri, and strikes out for Tarwin's Gap to meet his fate. At some point, he HAS to raise the Golden Crane, its been foreshadowed since the first book for christ sake.

 

Anyway overall I was very pleased. Not as long as we are used to, but whatever. Well worth the 3 bucks. I am starving for new material at this point, and the next 6 weeks can't go by fast enough!

[Random Man]

Not really sure what I have to add yet at this point...Wow.

 

Also, Luckers, you were pretty spot on about Graendal! The only thing you didn't get right (and just by a smidgen) is that she hadn't figured out what Rand was up to until it was almost too late.

[ghenjei]

Cancelled Amazon and went B&M (sorry DM)

wow, def. worth staying up until 3:40 on work night

blew me away, particularly the last bit in Kandor + Graendel

 

Ok serious q:

Fain can create Zombies now? WTF? I know Tor just did zombie week, but that was too much even for me?

[Luckers]

Not really sure what I have to add yet at this point...Wow.

 

Also, Luckers, you were pretty spot on about Graendal! The only thing you didn't get right (and just by a smidgen) is that she hadn't figured out what Rand was up to until it was almost too late.

 

 

:D I didn't really pick Aran'gar or Delana either--there is a thread where I wrote a joke PoV from Graendal stepping through the gateway leaving Aran'gar behind because she was pissed with her for using her pets, but I was just kidding--I didn't really expect it.

 

I woulda liked to see Moiraine though.

[seasnake]

Lan's was good, it's about time someone actually said "I'll do what's right even if others don't." Short, but quality.

 

Perrin is setting up to something, and I think that it needs to be a huge payoff. I for one have enjoyed Perrin's storyline as it made a lot of sense to me (my wife is kidnapped and that's my only focus is TOTALLY understandable), but I do think in this book he needs to make the leap and leave behind all of his doubts. The interesting thing about Perrin is there is a lot of variation: he could become like Luc/Isam, stepping in and out of the Wolf Dream at will as a man or wolf. He could throw away all of his weapons, become a Tinker and find the song. He could go the Borderlanders and through Faile assume command and turn them around back to their duty. But he needs to climb the hump this book, no more waffling between I'm a Lord/Blacksmith/Man/Wolf/Love Faile/Hot for Berelain guy. It needs to culminate in something huge now.

 

Graendal was good, and yet a little strange to me. It was a little too convenient that Graendal would have Delana and Aran'gar do the dirty work, when she so reflexively compulses everyone who she meets. On the one hand I'm glad she got away and that there's reason to think another capable threat is at work in the world (seriously, Demandred has reached the point of Boring) and she seems a crafty foe. But on the other, I just have a tough time with her thinking to use the other two for the compulsions.

 

Galad was pretty straightforward.

 

Fain was interesting. I do like the theory that he's mixed up Moridin and Rand because the two are becoming one.

 

The borderland tower was my favorite. Ordinary people standing up to extraordinary evil. Awesome

[sleepinghour]

Could someone please write a summary for everyone outside the US/Canada?

[Rufae]

OK, I broke down and bought the Prologue from B&N. What can I say, I am a sucker for punishment.

 

Wow! Awsome read!

 

I hated that Grandel found out in time about Rand's plan to escape, but it was awsome how she sold out Arangar and Delana. Plus, compulsion on an animal? That was great.

 

I had it planned out that Lan would be the one at the head of an Army, flying the Golden Crane, and pushing through Tarwin's Gap. But if he is still in Saldaea and the Tolloc rush out of the Blight has begun, then he won't make it that far before encountering the trollocs/shadowspawn. I say he makes it to Chachin and fighs it out there. That would be very circular with New Spring. Plus it is where the kid says the men are gathering in an army for Lan.

 

Fain's POV was good. Scary but good. It seems he has full control of the mists now and can turn trollocs into zombies. By the time he reaches Shayol Ghul, he could have a whole zombie army at his command. That could help the Light by dirupting the Shadow's supply side and harass the rear. I have no idea how Rand is goign to kill him.

 

I think Galad will pull a Egwene and work from within to reunite the Whitecloaks and purify them. I think Perrin's nearby army will come upon where Galad is held and rescue him.

 

The watchtower scene was one I have been waiting for, for almost 15 years. The start of the Last Battle and the Blight opening up to a flood of trollocs/shadowspawn. I was glad that the father was able to pass the sword on to his son. Very well done.

 

This is shaping up to be one the best books yet.

[seasnake]

Briefly:

 

Lan is riding alone toward the blight, he meets with Bulen (form New Spring) who asks to follow him. At first he thinks to deny him on a technicality (Bulen doesn't have a horse, and Lan only promised to accept someone who wanted to "ride" with him) and then realizes that the problem with Aes Sedai and the world, people don't keep the spirit of their agreements only the letter. He relents and accepts his help, but still is unwilling to unveil the Golden Crane.

 

Perrin is having a dream that is a blend of normal dreams and the Wolf Dream. He is trying to make something at a forge but the pieces don't fit together. He's alternating desiring to Run with the wolves, fight in battle, be a Blacksmith, be with Faile, etc. He's suddenly back fighting in Malden, but there's two of him, one with a hammer one with an axe fighting side by side. He fights Aram again only he turns into a wolf and kills him. Then he's back at the forge and realizes he's been casting figures, Aram is the first and the others are the men he is responsible for. The metal figures pursue him and he wakes up.

 

Graendal is at home with Aran'gar and Delana. Graendal reveals she could channel the True Source in the past ages, but only a trickle. She meets with Rand's decoy, realizes she's been discovered. She prepares to flee, is about to put a compulsion on the decoy but thinks that Nynaeve's talent for healing may let her read compulsion weaves, and in reading the instructions given it might give a clue about Graendal's intent. So she has Aran'gar and Delana do it. She controls a bird with the True Source, corrupting the it's mind so she can use it to see like the Dark One uses ravens. She sees Rand getting ready unleash the light, and realizes what is going on. She shields Aran'gar and Delana and slips out her gateway, excited to be alive and knowing that Rand won't be looking for her anymore. She plots to hurt Rand by killing his companions, Nynaeve and Min.

 

Galad is riding through a swamp with his children, heading to Caemlyn. One of his own has betrayed his position to Asunawa. The armies are about to fight, but Galad makes a compromise: he turns himself over for questioning on condition that none of his men is to be harmed, questioned or demoted. Asunawa agrees. Galad is tortured until unconscious.

 

Padan Fain is creeping through the blight, killing things. He doesn't consider himself Mordeth, Ordeith or Fain anymore, but something new in need of a name. He's letting his blood hit the ground to draw shadowspawn. When it approaches he lashes out with tentacles of Mashadar to kill the Trollocs and Myrdraal, and then re-inserts a spark of the stolen souls into the corpses of the Trollocs. They follow him as he heads further on in the blight, waiting for Rand to come to him so he can kill him.

 

The last is a touching scene at the Borderlands. A dark shadow is coming and several men are in a watch tower readying themselves. It's hard to sum up as its all new characters, but it's well-written and as it ends the tower is engulfed by the tide of dark cloud and it's filled with Trollocs, Draghkar and other things. The men roar out in defiance and fight back.

[sleepinghour]

Great summary! Thank you. :)

[seasnake]

Great summary! Thank you. :)

 

Oh, one more thing. The beginning blurb is from Loial's book, The Dragon Reborn. In it he writes that at the end of the Great Stump the Ogier were ready to open the book of Translation, but his mother insisted the Stump listen to Loial first. Loial says he didn't know what to say, and then he realized that unless he succeeded humans would face the shadow alone this time. And with that thought he began to speak.

[jemron]

I pretty much agree with everything that has been said.

 

It's hard to believe ToM will be better that TGS was, but after reading that prologue, I don't doubt it will at least be on the same level as TGS (probably better).

[Rufae]

Also would like to say that either Brandon has gotten a lot better in writing the Wheel or a good portion of this Prologue was written by RJ. Very little struck me as being Brandon's style. It was all mostly Jordan-esque.

[jemron]

Also would like to say that either Brandon has gotten a lot better in writing the Wheel or a good portion of this Prologue was written by RJ. Very little struck me as being Brandon's style. It was all mostly Jordan-esque.

I don't typically like to be nit-picky about these things, because I don't really care one way or the other, but what's interesting to me is I felt the exact opposite. I felt like I could tell very obviously when it was RJ, and most of it felt like it was BWS. Honestly though, who cares one way or the other? And, I'm probably very wrong, since I think RJ had already written the prologue before he died. So, yeah... it's really all RJ in the end; even if Brandon wrote the words.

[Terez]

One thing I've noticed that's indicative of Brandon's style: short sentences, and little in the way of description between dialogue lines. There is a lot of 'He continued on.' or 'He continued forward.' or 'Aran'gar finished'. Could see a lot of Brandon in Lan's POV and Graendal's.

 

Also, can I say EW again for Aran'gar and Delana?

[marianmi]

Jordan-esque?

Look at Galad's speech, it's so Egwene from TGS... that was the worst part of the prologue.

And there are so many ... glitches ... Like Mat's timeline - nevermind what Brandon said (rumors are rumors?) - what abt the sky? and also, why did the Aes Sedai with Mat want to leave for the WT on foot/horse? Joline can always go to Elayne, they know each-other pretty well from Ebou Dar and she can have Traveling in a zip. And Joline, why go to the WT and not to the rebels? And if they go (with Mat's horses) I would assume they reach the WT in less than 20 days (so before the seanchan attack).

I reason that either they stay with Mat, or they should arrive soon at Egwene, where Seta can be the seanchan helping Egwene (too bad Rena is dead, it would have been ... interesting ... if Rena would have saved Egwene in any way)

My 2c

[Rufae]

How many Galad POVs written by RJ in the entire series have we had to really know what his voice is like? Is a wonder that his and Egwene woudl be saying similar things since they are in similar circumstances?

 

As for the others, that doesn't involve the Prologue so does'nt relate to this thread.

 

Yeah, I didn't say that it was all written by RJ. Only that Brandon has really improved his writing to match WoT closer in the Prologue.