How is Rand able to channel the True Power?

[Dagon Thyne]

I was under the impression that one had to be linked directly to the Dark One in order to be able to touch the True Power...but Rand was able to without such a link......

 

For awhile, I was thinking that it could be because of the link between himself and Moridin.

 

Can somone clarifiy this for me?

[Phelix]

People are allowed to channel the TP by the express will of the Dark One. He grants them the ability to do so based on his desires. It takes him actively giving them permission to touch it for them to be able to channel the TP. That's why Semirhage screamed about the DO betraying her when Rand used the TP to destroy the collar and kill her and Elza. She knew that Rand couldn't be using the TP without the DO's express permission.

 

Now, why did the DO allow Rand to channel the TP? Probably to push him even further off his rocker and give the DO that direct connection to the Light's Champion. We saw how after Rand channeled the TP, reality warped around him (much like it did back in Fal Dara when Rand used the Dark One's name), and later on how there was palpable darkness around Rand. That is from use of the TP and the proximity of the DO's attention. We also note that Rand was especially dark and crazed after channeling the TP, again from the influence of the DO's corruption that Rand flooded himself with while using the TP.

[Pertan]

I'm probably wrong but i always took it to mean that he used it through his connection to Moridin.

[Phelix]

Considering it happened in tGS and there's going to be a new book out in about a month and a half, it seems a bit silly to put it in the Spoiler Section.

[Kal Logan]

I was also under the impression that it was Rands link to Moridin that allowed him to channel the True Power.

[Naffy]

There are two possibilites and neither has been confirmed yet. The first is that the Dark One let Rand do it in order to drive him deeper into madness. This would imply that the DO set up Semirhage. The second is that Rand pulled the true power through his connection to Moridin. Both theories have merit and I myself go back and forth between the two. I am leaning towards the first as there is foreshadowing in earlier books about Semi thinking about how the DO could sacrifice her to get to Rand.

[Alternate34]

I wish I had the book in front of me, but by the way it is described, it seems there could be a 3rd way to access the True Power. To embrace saidin, Rand uses the Void (the Oneness for 2d agers). The way it is described in the book, when Rand accesses the True Power, he enters a different mental state. His heart becomes ice or something like that. Rather than feed his emotions into a fire and achieving concentration, he discards his emotions. I wonder if this might be a third way to access the True Power, through an emotional state that lacks humanity.

 

Now, this theory is obviously problematic. First, it might not jive with RJ given information. Second, it could just be another way that the Dark One grants access to the True Power. If someone becomes completely detached from humanity, that satisfies the Dark One that they will serve his ultimate purpose, so he has set it as a way to access it.

[Phelix]

When it is described in the book, Rand suddenly senses a reservoir of Power, something alien and different, and he reaches for it. There's no hint of reaching through Moridin, or even any hint that Moridin was in any way "present."

 

Sure, it is possible that the DO did not intend Rand to have access to the TP but Rand was able to grab it through his connection to Moridin, but the fact that Rand continues to sense it, be tempted to use it, for the rest of the book implies otherwise. We're told that use of the TP is at the sole discretion of the DO. If Rand didn't have his permission, Rand wouldn't be able to draw on it afterward.

[OptimusPrime]

I think Rand accessed the True Power due to the link, whatever part of Moridin holds his permission to channel it exists in Rand as well because of the strengthening of the merge. I also think Rands sickness might very well be a side effect of True Power access, like each time he siezes saidin he skims over the True Power for a split second, causing the sickness. Maybe. But I do not think Rand was granted permission intentionally, the only way to get him to use it was to block saidin but not the True Power, and the sad bracelet was the key for that.

Edited September 16, 2010 by Drekka Mort

[Agitel]

Both Pertan and Phelix gave the two most common theories. I agree with Phelix' assessment, but Pertan's is also potentially valid. We don't know yet.

[Silver]

When it is described in the book, Rand suddenly senses a reservoir of Power, something alien and different, and he reaches for it. There's no hint of reaching through Moridin, or even any hint that Moridin was in any way "present."

 

Something snapped inside of him. He grew cold; then that coldness vanished, and he could feel nothing. No emotion. No anger.

 

At that moment he grew aware of a strange force. It was like a reservoir of water, boiling and churning just beyond his view. He reached toward it with his mind.

 

A clouded face flashed before Rand's own, one whose features he couldn't quite make out. It was gone in a moment.

 

And Rand found himself filled with an alien power. Notsaidin, notsaidar, but something else. Something he'd never felt before.

 

 

The only persons face Rand sees is Moridin (Mat and Perrin show scenes) so we can assume it's him.

[mikael]

Im in the Phelix camp. I like the idea of the DO setting Rand up to make him destroy the world on his own much more than the semi-deus ex machina thats Rand suddenly grabbing the TP through Moridin.

[Majsju]

Moridins order to Graendal, that she is to make Rand know pain of heart, frustration and anguish makes the Semi-situation scream of a set-up. We know that the Shadow have wanted to turn Rand since the beginning of TEOTW, and putting him in a situation where he pretty much must use TP seems like the best effort made to accomplish that. And it would not be the first time we have seen a forsaken sacrificed, look at how Moridin helped Rand to kill Sammael.

[Wantanswers]

Moridins order to Graendal, that she is to make Rand know pain of heart, frustration and anguish makes the Semi-situation scream of a set-up. We know that the Shadow have wanted to turn Rand since the beginning of TEOTW, and putting him in a situation where he pretty much must use TP seems like the best effort made to accomplish that. And it would not be the first time we have seen a forsaken sacrificed, look at how Moridin helped Rand to kill Sammael.

Rand is still able to use the TP, but I wonder if he can still use it. The TP is very addictive and if he will use it again he will sooner or later (most probable sooner) become a TP-junk. In that case he would be dependent of the DO and become a darkfriend.

 

Because of Min's vision we know that Rand will be kidnapped another time by Aes Sedai and that they will hurt him. This will probably happen by the (black) sisters, accompanying the Borderlanders. We also know that Perrin has to save him.

Semirhage couldn't control Rand with the Domination Band and I doubt 13 sisters, even when linked, can shield him from the TP.

 

So, I think Rand will realise he can't use the TP again and he will resist the temptation, even when he is tortured.

[Spirax]

as the TP is different from the One power, is it able at all to block someone off from the TP? it would be like cutting htem off from the Dark one, and as i can recall, only Rand has been ablt ot do that so far...

[Auld Manriva]

Because of Min's vision we know that Rand will be kidnapped another time by Aes Sedai and that they will hurt him. This will probably happen by the (black) sisters, accompanying the Borderlanders. We also know that Perrin has to save him.

Semirhage couldn't control Rand with the Domination Band and I doubt 13 sisters, even when linked, can shield him from the TP.

 

So, I think Rand will realise he can't use the TP again and he will resist the temptation, even when he is tortured.

 

And there was something else, something new, an aura of yellow and brown and purple that made her stomach clench. "Aes Sedai are going to hurt you. Women who can channel anyway. It was all confused. I'm not sure about the Aes Sedai part. But it might happen more than once. I think that's why it seemed all scrambled."

 

If this is the passage causing making people think the AS with the Borderlanders are going to capture Rand, I'm not so sure you all have the right of it. Semi's aborted capture of Rand and making him nearly kill Min could easily fulfill this viewing.

 

Unless the Borderlanders actually DO harbor BA or Demandred or both I really don't see what the point has been for spending so much time on them. There must be something though if Davram is to be da' King or BOTH he and Tenobia get offed and Faile is to be Queen. This really is a Gordian Knot of a sub-plot and I'm really not sure if I care about it or not.

[Wantanswers]

Because of Min's vision we know that Rand will be kidnapped another time by Aes Sedai and that they will hurt him. This will probably happen by the (black) sisters, accompanying the Borderlanders. We also know that Perrin has to save him.

Semirhage couldn't control Rand with the Domination Band and I doubt 13 sisters, even when linked, can shield him from the TP.

 

So, I think Rand will realise he can't use the TP again and he will resist the temptation, even when he is tortured.

 

And there was something else, something new, an aura of yellow and brown and purple that made her stomach clench. "Aes Sedai are going to hurt you. Women who can channel anyway. It was all confused. I'm not sure about the Aes Sedai part. But it might happen more than once. I think that's why it seemed all scrambled."

 

If this is the passage causing making people think the AS with the Borderlanders are going to capture Rand, I'm not so sure you all have the right of it. Semi's aborted capture of Rand and making him nearly kill Min could easily fulfill this viewing.

 

Unless the Borderlanders actually DO harbor BA or Demandred or both I really don't see what the point has been for spending so much time on them. There must be something though if Davram is to be da' King or BOTH he and Tenobia get offed and Faile is to be Queen. This really is a Gordian Knot of a sub-plot and I'm really not sure if I care about it or not.

If you had read some lines further, you should have noticed that Perrin has to be involved that second time. So, the vision of Min had nothing to do with Semirhage.

[Vermillion]

I think it is the link. From what I gather Rand would need to have the link like he cut from Ishamael which you have to go to SG to get. I think the link between Moridin showed him how to assume the voided need for TP and allowed him to channel through his SG link.

 

This begs the question does Rand have the black strand. I know it was for the filter but I think it was also access to TP.

[Phelix]

When it is described in the book, Rand suddenly senses a reservoir of Power, something alien and different, and he reaches for it. There's no hint of reaching through Moridin, or even any hint that Moridin was in any way "present."

 

Something snapped inside of him. He grew cold; then that coldness vanished, and he could feel nothing. No emotion. No anger.

 

At that moment he grew aware of a strange force. It was like a reservoir of water, boiling and churning just beyond his view. He reached toward it with his mind.

 

A clouded face flashed before Rand's own, one whose features he couldn't quite make out. It was gone in a moment.

 

And Rand found himself filled with an alien power. Notsaidin, notsaidar, but something else. Something he'd never felt before.

 

 

The only persons face Rand sees is Moridin (Mat and Perrin show scenes) so we can assume it's him.

 

Just because Rand saw Moridin's face when he channeled the TP doesn't mean he channeled the TP through Moridin. He's been seeing Moridin's face all the time lately, when he was channeling saidin, when he wasn't channeling at all. Seeing Moridin's face at that moment could mean any number of things... perhaps Moridin sensed what was happening, and thought of Rand... causing his face to flash through Rand's mind.

[Phelix]

I think it is the link. From what I gather Rand would need to have the link like he cut from Ishamael which you have to go to SG to get. I think the link between Moridin showed him how to assume the voided need for TP and allowed him to channel through his SG link.

 

This begs the question does Rand have the black strand. I know it was for the filter but I think it was also access to TP.

 

OK, why do you think that? Why do you need a filter to channel the TP? The Dark One is everywhere, he's just most accessible at Shayol Ghul, so why is it necessary that Rand have gone there to have such a link to the TP/DO?

 

We know that the DO gave access to the TP to about 30 people during the War of Power before the Taint existed, which meant they did not need filters. Yes, we have seen the DO require his followers to come to the bore to receive his touch, but he can be elsewhere (as evidenced by the twisting of the world when Rand named shai'tan in the Great Hunt).

 

We also know that women don't need the filters and do not have the black strands. As far as I recall, but feel free to correct me, no one ever saw black strands around Lanfear, Semirhage, or any of the rest.

 

Unless you've got something pretty hefty to support your claim, it doesn't make sense for the filter to be a requirement of channeling the TP. Which likely means it is unnecessary for Rand to be channeling the TP through Moridin. Which further means it is likely Rand was channeling the TP on his own, and the DO simply made it accessible to Rand to push him over the edge.

[TreeJoe]

I don't think it's through the link to Moridin. I used to, but I realized that's problematic.

 

If Rand has access to the T.P. through Moridin, does he also have access to Moridin's use of Saidin? How far does this link go?

 

Since Shaidar Haran was involved in the domination band scenario, and he's the direct hand of the Dark One, I think the Dark One granted Rand access to the True Power AND the moment where he'd reach to anything to help him escape.

 

He's ingenious, that Shai'tan is....

[Alternate34]

When it is described in the book, Rand suddenly senses a reservoir of Power, something alien and different, and he reaches for it. There's no hint of reaching through Moridin, or even any hint that Moridin was in any way "present."

 

Something snapped inside of him. He grew cold; then that coldness vanished, and he could feel nothing. No emotion. No anger.

 

At that moment he grew aware of a strange force. It was like a reservoir of water, boiling and churning just beyond his view. He reached toward it with his mind.

 

A clouded face flashed before Rand's own, one whose features he couldn't quite make out. It was gone in a moment.

 

And Rand found himself filled with an alien power. Notsaidin, notsaidar, but something else. Something he'd never felt before.

 

 

The only persons face Rand sees is Moridin (Mat and Perrin show scenes) so we can assume it's him.

 

Just because Rand saw Moridin's face when he channeled the TP doesn't mean he channeled the TP through Moridin. He's been seeing Moridin's face all the time lately, when he was channeling saidin, when he wasn't channeling at all. Seeing Moridin's face at that moment could mean any number of things... perhaps Moridin sensed what was happening, and thought of Rand... causing his face to flash through Rand's mind.

 

Yeah, but it is at least a hint that it through his link to Moridin that he accessed the True Power. While not conclusive, it is highly suggestive of this.

 

Breaking down the quote, it goes "Rand feels nothing, Rand senses the True Power, Rand reaches for True Power, Rand sense Moridin, Rand holds True Power." It points strongly to the link with Moridin being key to his True Power access. Your objections show that it may not be true, but it doesn't make it unlikely.

[Phelix]

When it is described in the book, Rand suddenly senses a reservoir of Power, something alien and different, and he reaches for it. There's no hint of reaching through Moridin, or even any hint that Moridin was in any way "present."

 

Something snapped inside of him. He grew cold; then that coldness vanished, and he could feel nothing. No emotion. No anger.

 

At that moment he grew aware of a strange force. It was like a reservoir of water, boiling and churning just beyond his view. He reached toward it with his mind.

 

A clouded face flashed before Rand's own, one whose features he couldn't quite make out. It was gone in a moment.

 

And Rand found himself filled with an alien power. Notsaidin, notsaidar, but something else. Something he'd never felt before.

 

 

The only persons face Rand sees is Moridin (Mat and Perrin show scenes) so we can assume it's him.

 

Just because Rand saw Moridin's face when he channeled the TP doesn't mean he channeled the TP through Moridin. He's been seeing Moridin's face all the time lately, when he was channeling saidin, when he wasn't channeling at all. Seeing Moridin's face at that moment could mean any number of things... perhaps Moridin sensed what was happening, and thought of Rand... causing his face to flash through Rand's mind.

 

Yeah, but it is at least a hint that it through his link to Moridin that he accessed the True Power. While not conclusive, it is highly suggestive of this.

 

Breaking down the quote, it goes "Rand feels nothing, Rand senses the True Power, Rand reaches for True Power, Rand sense Moridin, Rand holds True Power." It points strongly to the link with Moridin being key to his True Power access. Your objections show that it may not be true, but it doesn't make it unlikely.

 

I disagree, obviously. ;)

 

Rand sees Moridin's face when he channels saidin, but we know Rand can (and likely is) reach saidin without going through Moridin, so why does Rand see the Nae'blis when he channels saidin?

 

As another poster just brought up, Shaidar Haran was there maneuvering this particular event, and we saw Semirhage cry out that DO abandoned her.

 

The most likely interpretation of these events is that the DO wanted Rand to be forced to touch the TP, drawing Rand closer to the DO, pushing him closer to madness, and pushing him closer to destroying creation. As we saw Rand almost do.

[Alternate34]

 

I disagree, obviously. ;)

 

Rand sees Moridin's face when he channels saidin, but we know Rand can (and likely is) reach saidin without going through Moridin, so why does Rand see the Nae'blis when he channels saidin?

 

As another poster just brought up, Shaidar Haran was there maneuvering this particular event, and we saw Semirhage cry out that DO abandoned her.

 

The most likely interpretation of these events is that the DO wanted Rand to be forced to touch the TP, drawing Rand closer to the DO, pushing him closer to madness, and pushing him closer to destroying creation. As we saw Rand almost do.

 

I think the main issue then is how the Rand-Moridin link functions. Obviously Rand doesn't need to reach through Moridin to channel. However, we know that when Rand does channel, his link to Moridin causes complications like retching and double vision. His link to Moridin affects Rand's link to saidin. It is not a stretch to think that the True Power would get messed up with it if they are merging or whatever is happening to them.

 

I think the most likely interpretation is that the Dark One is encouraging Rand's use of the True Power and the mechanism being used for Rand's access is through Moridin. To access the True Power, Rand had to completely disconnect from his compassion. I think it is all one big ball of what everyone has argued.

[Phelix]

I disagree, obviously. ;)

 

Rand sees Moridin's face when he channels saidin, but we know Rand can (and likely is) reach saidin without going through Moridin, so why does Rand see the Nae'blis when he channels saidin?

 

As another poster just brought up, Shaidar Haran was there maneuvering this particular event, and we saw Semirhage cry out that DO abandoned her.

 

The most likely interpretation of these events is that the DO wanted Rand to be forced to touch the TP, drawing Rand closer to the DO, pushing him closer to madness, and pushing him closer to destroying creation. As we saw Rand almost do.

 

I think the main issue then is how the Rand-Moridin link functions. Obviously Rand doesn't need to reach through Moridin to channel. However, we know that when Rand does channel, his link to Moridin causes complications like retching and double vision. His link to Moridin affects Rand's link to saidin. It is not a stretch to think that the True Power would get messed up with it if they are merging or whatever is happening to them.

 

I think the most likely interpretation is that the Dark One is encouraging Rand's use of the True Power and the mechanism being used for Rand's access is through Moridin. To access the True Power, Rand had to completely disconnect from his compassion. I think it is all one big ball of what everyone has argued.

 

I agree, actually, that the main issue (on which the rest of this debate hinges) is the mechanics of the link between Rand and Moridin.

 

In most situations, the simplest solution is the most likely one. Can we generally accept that premise? If so, have Rand draw on the TP through Moridin is adding a layer of complexity that does not make sense. We know that the Dark One can grant access to the TP. We know that the Avatar of the Dark One was present and involved in the situation in which Rand used the TP. We agree that the Dark One is likely encouraging Rand's use of the TP for his own motives.

 

Based on those facts, and our agreement on the DO's intent, the simplest answer is that the Dark One allowed Rand to access the TP on his own. Reaching through Moridin doesn't make sense.

 

The only way I see it working, it being Rand drawing through Moridin, is if it were a linking situation, where Rand reached for the TP through Moridin and pulled Moridin into a link. There are many problems with that situation, though.

 

First, Rand's awareness of Moridin is fleeting and dull. In every other linking situation those participating in the link have heightened awareness of each other for the duration of the link. Secondly, proximity matters. Yes, Rand is linked some how to Moridin, but in every example of linking in the series you must be within a relatively small distance of the person you wish to link with. Moridin generally keeps to the Blight and Shayol Ghul, and Rand was far to the South. Thirdly, by the mechanics established in the series, men are not able to initiate links. That is generally a rule for the One Power, but because the TP is similar enough to the OP that it can be weaved by any competent channeler, the general rules must be the same.

 

All in all, I think Occam's razor must apply. For Rand to draw the TP through his link to Moridin, we would need to see the basic rules of channeling changed. The more simple, more elegant, solution is that the Dark One wanted Rand to have access to the True Power, so he gave Rand access.

 

Now, onto the nature and mechanics of the bond between Rand and Moridin. We know that the bond was created with Moridin balefired Rand's balefire. There are two likely causes for the linking between them: first, balefire being a weave that destroys the thread of a soul, being turned against itself caused the threads of the two involved to be spliced together; second, the caustic interaction between the TP and the OP caused that splicing.

 

Myself, I lean towards the former. What are your thoughts?