Is Gawyn under Compulsion? (Spoilers for tGS)

[Owayn The Traveller]

Seriously FSM how big is that room your papering? I recollect you saying something before about it.

 

Good post by the way, interesting stuff. I much prefer it to the Bashere one and it is quite possible.

[FarShainMael]

It's not all that big really - it's just that it's the main bedroom and I have to shuffle stuff around so that we can still sleep in it while I'm redecorating. Also woodchip is dreadful stuff to get off, even when soaked in vinegar, though that does help a trifle (thanks to whoever for the suggestion). It doesn't help that we have two other projects going on as well - double glazing all three bedrooms and extending the central heating to the other two bedrooms. Should have done that years ago, but that's hindsight for you!

 

Waaaaahhh you don't like my Bashere theory waaaaahh I shall go off and sulk!

 

 

 

But seriously.. when I have a mo I shall look at Gawyn's early days. My impression is that we don't know an awful lot about those days or what he was like before he went to the WT.

[Owayn The Traveller]

Jeez I told you about the vinegar that's for the credit dude.

[AuldGoldBeard]

It's all evidence, whether or not you like it, and much more solid than an assumption that Gawyn has been Compelled (which doesn't even necessarily suggest he will try to kill Rand).

 

That's like saying the Sonoran is much wetter than the the Sahara.

[Duskfire]

During the Tower Coup, his eyes were also glazed and he wasnt in complete control of himself (could be battle lust and whatnot, could be something else.)

 

I think the idea is cool. Gawyn has an irrational hated for Rand that many people have tried to talk him down from. Not to mention his complete personality change. They could just be character progression (which it probably is) but I also like the idea that he subtle compulsion was used on him in such a way that his fears regarding the Dragon Reborn were only amplified, he wasn't given anything new.

 

What, by basing a theory on a theory instead of using actual evidence like foreshadowing and parallels? There's no reason to think Gawyn is under Compulsion; all of his actions are explained by his misguided sense of honor and his flawed character.

 

Parallels isn't evidence, because they can be interpreted a number of different ways. There have already been plenty of Arthurian links that you could also just as easily say there wont be anymore and still create examples of heavy links. Based on your example for instance, I could easily create a theory that Mat will die at the beginning of TG. His death has been foreshadowed, or at least he has been linked many times to death, Odin who he is somewhat based on dies during Ragnarok (killed by Fenrir, who is similiar to Fain no less) and by your definition that would be a perfectly acceptable theory. I dont neccessarily disbelieve your Gawyn will kill Rand theory, but I just want to point out that the possibility of future parallels is not evidence.

 

Same with Foreshadowing; its all interpretation. Thats not evidence, or rather not to the same extent that you so adamantly stick with. And much like you, the OP is interpreting what he sees in the series.

[FarShainMael]

Jeez I told you about the vinegar that's for the credit dude.

So you did!

[FarShainMael]

During the Tower Coup, his eyes were also glazed and he wasnt in complete control of himself (could be battle lust and whatnot, could be something else.)

 

I think the idea is cool. Gawyn has an irrational hated for Rand that many people have tried to talk him down from. Not to mention his complete personality change. They could just be character progression (which it probably is) but I also like the idea that he subtle compulsion was used on him in such a way that his fears regarding the Dragon Reborn were only amplified, he wasn't given anything new.

 

It's also interesting that Min had a viewing of Gawyn while he was helping her group escape from Tar Valon:

Gawyn kneeling at Egwene's feet with his head bowed, and Gawyn breaking Egwene's neck, first one then the other, as if either could be the future. She had never seen that fluttering back and forth, as though not even the viewing could tell which would be the true future. Worse, she had a feeling near to certainty that it was what she had done this day that had turned Gawyn toward those two possibilities.

 

Has she caused Gawyn to start fighting his Compulsion?

[theblacksmith]

I enjoyed this post for the same reason I Love this site...your post inspired a good conversation about a character in this series. It was well presented and incited others to engage in hypotheticals and theory generating, it was only mired by the I have to be right persona but even that did not take away from the continuity of the thread. So thanks for posting it, and thanks to Luckers and all for making some place for us addicts to post.

 

The fact that this guy is nobility I believe he has been raised under the impression he is defacto judge, jury, and executioner, but as all agree his thinking or thought processes is flawed. It generally rotates around "I know best, they are only accepted" what he fails to realize is in this short period of time he has become a Blademaster, A field Commander, and a lunatic...so why does everyone else have to still be the people he remembers them as? That question may help the young lad, but if it isn't asked he would need a good spanking from a blademaster and poor Rand only has 1 hand.

 

no facts no evidence but fun for me to write and i hope some enjoy it.

[KefkaPalazzo]

I don't believe that Gawyn is under Compulsion. Compulsion does not leave a visible sign (why Graendal loves it), like TSR's glazed eyes. The eyes probably just come from his world all falling around him. He'd chosen a side, and if the coup had failed, he would have been executed, leaving Elayne without a FPOTS. He was scared out of his gourd.

 

As far as his other behavior, I imagine he still sees Rand as a rival for Egwene (witness his dream), even though the relationship was dropped before either one met Gawyn (but he doesn't know that). He has been secluded in Tar Valon since book 2. What kind of theories could we DM-ers have come up with if we only got a list of deaths, and a list of Rand's locations, both dated, with only information from books 1 and 2? A good half of us at least likely would jump to the same wrong conclusions Gawyn did. I think he's just using the little information he has to form a conclusion. He's just listening to the wrong people.

[Manjunathan]

It is possible that Mesaana ordered one of the BA to compel Gawyn during the tower coup, and she made a mess of it leaving him a nutcase.

[Grig]

I don't believe that Gawyn is under Compulsion. Compulsion does not leave a visible sign (why Graendal loves it), like TSR's glazed eyes.

 

"You do too much. Go to your bedchamber and sleep. Go now. I will wake you when you have rested enough."

 

Morgase stood immediately, still smiling at him devotedly. Her eyes seemed slightly glazed. "Yes, I am tired. I will take a nap now, Gaebril."

From TFoH, chapter 1.

 

The time frame is similar to when Gawyn is described as having glazed eyes and acting against his previously described personality type. Obviously there are other reasons for his eyes to glaze over in this time frame, but there is precedent for talking about "glazed eyes" as a sign that someone is acting according to Compulsion.

[haloun]

i think this is a very interesting theory... especially if, and i'll have to read it again to be sure, but gawyn seems to be the more logical of the two brothers. he always thought things through, and even protected rand from galad in teotw, so why would he all of a sudden change to doing things extremely rash simply for justice, and at the same time hating rand for something that has no real basis? the only good look we get at him before the tower coup is in teotw and i think you might have something with the compulsion thing, especially since warders are trained to think things out and not act rashly unless their aes sedai is going to die otherwise.

[Jillain Sanche]

So, is Gawyn under compulsion? Or, is he just a dangerous screw up with ego problems (let alone problems with logic) who seems to have completely thrown over his oath to Elayne?

 

Which is more likely?

 

Interesting theory. It seems glazed eyes are our only concrete evidence. Yet his behaviour has been beyond troubling ever since the Tower coup.

[Keiling]

I've got to say... I know Gawyn has been a bit of an gargantuan arse, but im pretty sure he's just misguided.

 

BWS said in a video interview a few months back (please don't ask me to find it - just trust me) that Gawyn was particularly hard to write, because as a character, he is lost. Which, I would take as evidence that he, as I said earlier he is just misguided, & not under any compulsion.

 

BAAM .....love the emoticons

[A2597]

I think it would be most interesting if Galad was the one who whipped him into shape. Galad, the Whitecloak who has chosen to fight alongside Aes Sedai, and who will, while hating Al'Thor for what he is, do what is right to save his life so he can fight at the last battle.

 

He's the logical choice, he always does what is right after all.

[DemandredFO]

Lanfear could've done it, maybe suspecting that his sister loved Lews Therin(Rand) and wanted to stir the pot. Rahvin could've done it too, wanting Gawyn out of the way and then he died, leaving Gawyn compelled but no orders to follow. If Gawyn isn't compelled, I very much want him dead.

[RDDK]

Gawyn has continued to be a disappointment to me also, for many of the reasons stated. He makes decision after decision using his gut, and it's wrong every single time. You'd think he'd get a clue eventually.

 

Putting him aside though, what I've always wondered more so than this, is why on earth Egwene wants to marry him. She knew him for what, a few weeks? Since then she has completely changed and seen him maybe a handful of times. Each of those times he talks of killing people (and not darkfriends or trollocs). This is the only "love match" of the main characters which makes no sense to me, and, in my opinion, hasn't been cultivated enough to validate the depths of emotion that Egwene and Gawyn are written of feeling.

[Fainsbane]

Lanfear could've done it, maybe suspecting that his sister loved Lews Therin(Rand) and wanted to stir the pot. Rahvin could've done it too, wanting Gawyn out of the way and then he died, leaving Gawyn compelled but no orders to follow. If Gawyn isn't compelled, I very much want him dead.

 

Couldn't have been Ravin since the Compulsion would be dispelled with his death if ... nevermind prologue spoiler.

[Sid]

...if the balefire used to kill him was strong enough to remove him from the pattern before the Compulsion was placed. Gawyn was in Tar Valon since TGH, months and months before Rand confronted Rahvin. There's nothing to suggest that Compulsion is dispelled upon the death of its weaver.

[OptimusPrime]

I dont want to give Gawyn the excuse of being under Compulsion to be honest, but I think its an interesting idea. I think there are several people who could have done it and had reasons. For example, lets imagine for a minute that Galad and Gawyn joined the Whitecloaks, and Sammael finds out. He decides that, seeing as he knows Andor has already been influenced by Rahvin, there is an opportunity to use this as another small piece of chaos that can be done with minimal risk and effort. So he has the dilemma of which brother to mess with, thinks Galad isnt as good a candidate because of the Damodred-Trakand bloodline thing, Trakand is in control and has already been messed about with, so there it is. Gawyn would be the easier of the two to Compel to hate Rand because rumors have already supplied reasons for that hate, meaning the necessary Compulsion would be harder to detect than it would on, say Galad. However, if Galads relation to Rand was known, this would make him a very, very interesting weapon against Rand, I think that could have been a nice storyline, but I think its too late for that now.

 

If it turns out someone did Compel him, I still dont think thats a good enough reason for him to not be called an idiot anymore.

[Demiandre]

Either he is truly lost between duties, and only the unsufferable lordling he is, thick as a centuries year old oak, stupid as a pack of mules, or he is breaking his compulsion. He is torn between Compulsion and his own motivations and goals. And if so, I also think Galad has been compulsed too. And that they were compulsed in Tar'Valon. and last, I find Galad dedication in his duty as Whitecloaks and Gawyn reluctance to be a puppet in in Aes Sedai's hands, questionning the good of his goals with the Younglings before turning alliance to Egwene (thus not returning to Elayne, a bigger duty) to indicate that it is Verin's minor-type Compulsion. She Compulsed them of protecting the three Black Ajah Hunters. But they had to find a reason in themselves. Gawyn stayed in Tar'Valon because of the Oath he made, and that they would return eventually, Galad enroled the Whitecloaks, because he couldn't help an institution that prevented him from protecting them.

 

But that is just my humble opinion.

[FarShainMael]

Been on holiday, now catching up, saw this:

 

I enjoyed this post for the same reason I Love this site...your post inspired a good conversation about a character in this series. It was well presented and incited others to engage in hypotheticals and theory generating, it was only mired by the

 

I have to be right persona

 

but even that did not take away from the continuity of the thread.

 

Thought: ? ? ?

 

Please see:

 

We don't know, at this stage (end of tGS), where Gawyn is or what he is doing. Egwene has thought to herself that she intends to bond him and marry him (tGS 38); but her thoughts of 'anger, affection, passion, and regret' seem to indicate that this may not happen. Did she send him back to Caemlyn, to be with his sister? Or is he still at the Tower, perhaps in response to

 

his conjectured Compulsion?

 

We are told that, in the later stages of ToM, Rand and Egwene will meet. Will Gawyn be around then? What will happen?

[shadow walker]

I think the vision of gawyn kneeling first and then snapping Egwene's neck is closer than we think. I would guess that if somehow Gawyn can get over his hatred of rand he will kneel(such as his mom comes back into the picture and calms him down), if for some reason he cant see sense or someone else cant make gawyn see sense he will try to kill rand, egewene will try to stop him, so then in a rage he will try to kill egwene, and rand will end up killing gawyn. which I assume will cause problems between Elayne, Galad, and Egwene dragon reborn or no dragon reborn lol.

[Jillain Sanche]

As I reread Chapter 13 in The Gathering Storm, the text does not seem to me to be supportive of a compulsion theory at all. His own memory of the events of the split in the Tower do not either. Ultimately, he'd be better off if he would accept Egwene's and Elayne's leadership. He supported Elaida because he thought Siuan treated the girls wrongly. Yet he is the one who was used badly and by Elaida herself. He's kind of a pawn but he keeps trying to be decisive. It would be great if Galad kicked him into shape!

[Durinax]

I think the vision of gawyn kneeling first and then snapping Egwene's neck is closer than we think. I would guess that if somehow Gawyn can get over his hatred of rand he will kneel(such as his mom comes back into the picture and calms him down), if for some reason he cant see sense or someone else cant make gawyn see sense he will try to kill rand, egewene will try to stop him, so then in a rage he will try to kill egwene, and rand will end up killing gawyn. which I assume will cause problems between Elayne, Galad, and Egwene dragon reborn or no dragon reborn lol.

what I want to know is if egwene will have her neck broke by gawyn or the falling blade that will kill her if gawyn doesnt come as stated by her dream