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Elyas connection to Lan


TreeJoe
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Hi all,

 

I am finishing up reading the eye of the world, and there are some strong hints about Elyas and Lan's connections. The WOT wiki says Elyas helped train Lan to be a warder, but Lan specifically states that Elyas taught him about the Blight and about the Sword.

 

Now, Lan was supposedly trained in Fal Moran by the best teachers about the Blight, the Sword, and all areas of combat and warfare. He was bonded by Moiraine ON THE ROAD in New Spring, not after an extensive training period in Tar Valon.

 

I'm thinking that Elyas knew Lan in Fal Moran. From adolescence.

 

Has this already been discussed anywhere?

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Hi all,

 

I am finishing up reading the eye of the world, and there are some strong hints about Elyas and Lan's connections. The WOT wiki says Elyas helped train Lan to be a warder, but Lan specifically states that Elyas taught him about the Blight and about the Sword.

 

Now, Lan was supposedly trained in Fal Moran by the best teachers about the Blight, the Sword, and all areas of combat and warfare. He was bonded by Moiraine ON THE ROAD in New Spring, not after an extensive training period in Tar Valon.

 

I'm thinking that Elyas knew Lan in Fal Moran. From adolescence.

 

Has this already been discussed anywhere?

 

I asked Brandon about that, and he MAFO'd it. At first he didn't seem to realize why the Blight/sword comment was suspicious, but I pointed out that Lan was practically raised in the Blight, and it's therefore hard to believe Elyas could have taught him anything about it unless he'd known Lan when he was a child.

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Remember that in the beginning of TGH we learn that Lan knows the ways of the Gaidin (Siuan complains that Rand's adopted some, and blames Moiraine for letting Lan train him). It stands to reason that sometime in those 20 years they returned to the Tower, and I'm sure Lan still had things to learn from the Gaidin. After all, he had the best education that could be had in the Borderlands, not the absolutely BEST, which would have to be what the WT can offer.

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Remember that in the beginning of TGH we learn that Lan knows the ways of the Gaidin (Siuan complains that Rand's adopted some, and blames Moiraine for letting Lan train him). It stands to reason that sometime in those 20 years they returned to the Tower, and I'm sure Lan still had things to learn from the Gaidin. After all, he had the best education that could be had in the Borderlands, not the absolutely BEST, which would have to be what the WT can offer.

 

 

I am not certain, but I do not think Moiraine has been back to the Tower since she left in New Spring. If that is true, any Gaidin ways would have been picked up from other warders they encountered.

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I am not certain, but I do not think Moiraine has been back to the Tower since she left in New Spring. If that is true, any Gaidin ways would have been picked up from other warders they encountered.

There could hardly be that much talk about Lan among the other Warders (for example, that he's the best swordsman amongst them) if he's never been to the WT, don't you think?

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There could hardly be that much talk about Lan among the other Warders (for example, that he's the best swordsman amongst them) if he's never been to the WT, don't you think?

 

Oh there exists a very real and large possibility I am wrong, that is just my gut feeling w/o my books to check on it.

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Still not seeing how anyone could teach Lan anything about the Blight unless he was a child.

I'm suggesting that the Tower knows the Blight even better than his Malkieri and Shainari teachers. Do you find it that hard to believe? AS have resources that others do not.

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I'm suggesting that the Tower knows the Blight even better than his Malkieri and Shainari teachers. Do you find it that hard to believe? AS have resources that others do not.

 

Well... I would assert that the Tower does NOT have more knowlege than his Malkieri teachers. For one, for a group of people supposedly dedicated to fighting the Shadow, they do very precious little of it. The only real argument in their favor that I can see is that a longer lifespan and quality records will help compound good information.

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It seems to me I've read, gleaned...whatever; that Moiraine had visited the WT regularly. She hadn't wandered about for 20 years like Moses and the Hebrews. Recall that Lan HAS a "cloak of many colors" (MY tongue-in-cheek reference) and he didn't get that from Omar The Cloak Maker or any of his franchised shops scattered about conveniently in towns and cities from coast to dragonwall, mountains of doom to sea of storms.... Get my drift? He acquired it in TV. I don't recall Moiraine totin' about a bolt of Mystery Cloth in order to dash one off for him about some campfire somewhere.

 

Also.... Moiraine and Siuan did NOT seem like they'd not seen each and the other for TWENTY years when they met in Fal Dara; No one thought her dead as the rumoured to be croaked Cadsuane in 998N.E. and Caddy Shack had only been layin' low for some period less than 20 years. THEY had been to the WT, occasionally, and I'm sure Lan would have trained with whatever Gaidin were about.

 

For some reason I think Machera IS a Borderlander of one denomination or the other as well and could well have passed on some wisdom to Lan as a young man. Would seem to have had to be as a young man I think, as Lan led forces (Some manner of Shinaran(sp) contingent I Think) in the Aiel War. I don't recall precisely WHEN Elyas "resigned" his Warder position, but I do not think he and Lan had multiple opportunities to share a mug once Lan became bonded to Moiraine.

 

I could also be completely and utterly full o'Felkakarb as all my ramblings are from memory of which I have not much left :blink:

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I am not certain, but I do not think Moiraine has been back to the Tower since she left in New Spring. If that is true, any Gaidin ways would have been picked up from other warders they encountered.

 

I'm not so sure. I think Moiraine certainly let's time pass before returning, but her best friend Siuan is eventually raised Amyrlin. I'm sure Moiraine stopped by the WT occasionally to report on her travels to Siuan and continue their plans after New Spring. I could be wrong, but this would provide Lan an opportunity to meet other Gaidin and learn their ways and allow word of his swordsmanship to spread amongst the warders.

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...Her best friend Siuan is eventually raised Amyrlin. I'm sure Moiraine stopped by the WT occasionally to report on her travels to Siuan and continue their plans after New Spring. I could be wrong, but this would provide Lan an opportunity to meet other Gaidin and learn their ways and allow word of his swordsmanship to spread amongst the warders.

 

And get a Warder's cloak; I concur.

 

I also think Elyas must be from the borderlands, in order to have taught Lan anything about the blight.

 

<tongue in cheek> Who knows, maybe Elyas is Lan's father... </tic>

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My guess is that Moiraine may have been back for a day or week every few years. Please note that, in my opinion, the dark one would have to suspect Moiraine as a hunter of the D.R.....she was extremely suspicious of what happened after Tamra died, and I think worked to avoid other A.S. in her hunt.

 

Lan said he learned from Elyas about the blight and the sword, and the way he said it was that he had extensive learnings from him and trusted him as well.

 

Certainly could've happened at the WT, but more likely occured when he was still learning in the borderlands.

 

Elyas is almost certainly a borderlander, IMHO.

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I'm not so sure. I think Moiraine certainly let's time pass before returning, but her best friend Siuan is eventually raised Amyrlin. I'm sure Moiraine stopped by the WT occasionally to report on her travels to Siuan and continue their plans after New Spring. I could be wrong, but this would provide Lan an opportunity to meet other Gaidin and learn their ways and allow word of his swordsmanship to spread amongst the warders.

 

TITLE - The Great Hunt

CHAPTER: 5 - The Shadow in Shienar

 

"We had a plan! A plan, Moiraine! Locate the boy and bring him to Tar Valon, where we could hide him, keep him safe and guide him. Since you left the Tower, I have had only two messages from you. Two! I feel as if I'm trying to sail the Fingers of the Dragon in the dark. One message to say you were entering the Two Rivers, going to this village, this Emond's Field. Soon, I thought. He's found, and she'll have him in hand soon. Then word from Caemlyn to say you were coming to Shienar, to Fal Dara, not Tar Valon. Fal Dara, with the Blight almost close enough to touch. Fal Dara, where Trollocs raid and Myrddraal ride as near every day as makes no difference. Nearly twenty years of planning and searching, and you toss all our plans practically in the Dark One's face. Are you mad?"

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And get a Warder's cloak; I concur.

 

I also think Elyas must be from the borderlands, in order to have taught Lan anything about the blight.

 

<tongue in cheek> Who knows, maybe Elyas is Lan's father... </tic>

 

Well it isn't like going to the Tower is the only way to get a cloak. Yeah they come from the Tower, but it isn't like he has to stand there and take it off the loom personally as it is woven...

 

 

I did some digging and Elyas is in New Spring (I just reread it so it was buzzing around in my head that I just had seen him) and roughly 5 years after New Spring ends (15 years before Perrin encounters him in EotW) is when he fled the Tower having become a wolf brother. Also Lan has spent a good deal of time in the vicinity of the Tower at this point as Tar Valon is under siege from the Aiel. So it is entirely possible they had run into each other in that time frame. Otherwise there are 5 years from roughly the time Lan is bonded until Elyas goes AWOL.

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The two Warders looked at Gawyn, shocked. They had borne similar expressions the last time Gawyn had defeated them, and

the time before that. Sleete carried a heron-mark blade and was near-legendary in the White Tower for his prowess. He was

said to have bested even Lan Mandragoran twice out of seven bouts, back when Mandragoran had been known to spar with

other Warders. Marlesh wasn't as renowned as his companion, but he was still a fully capable and trained Warder, no easy foe.

TGS "An Offer and a Departure"

 

I'm pretty sure they visited the tower at least a few times. Within the 5 years or so between when Lan was bonded and Elyas was not yet a wolfbrother it seems somewhat likely that they'd met.

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Agreed.

 

Siuan says she received only two messages from Moiraine since Moiraine left the Tower, but she also mentions extensive planning. Given that this is a top secret mission and the only method of instantaneous communication involved speaking face to face, that would suggest that Moiraine returned to the Tower at least once after the events of New Spring.

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When Elyas hooked up with Perrin in tPoD he seemed to know a lot about borderlanders in general. I personally think he was one of the five bodyguards how survived carrying baby Lan from the blight. At some point Rina (Halfden, I think) came along and trick Elyas into becoming one of her warders. But those five and a few other Malkier refuges were the ones who taught Lan how to fight and about the blight.

 

In tEotW Lan seemed awfully curious about Elyas's wellfare. More then the warders in general seem to care about each other. It was like the two of them were really tight once, and Lan never came across as the friendliest person in the series. Him and Rand don't seem that tight.

 

And Lan learned about the Aiel because he grew up in Sheniar and fought them on the Eastern Marches them fought them in the Aiel War.

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