Of the Blademasters, who are the top 5?

[Entreri]

The difference between Lan and Galad to Gawyn imo is that Lan and Galad are fully subdued and without emotion when fighting. Gawyn is more emotional than both of them put together and that can lead to over confidence.

Sometimes, that is a source of strength for Gawyn but against Lan and Galad, that strength would be turned against him in much the same way Lan did to Ryne and Galad to Valda.

Remember, both Ryne and Valda were actually technically superior than Lan and Galad respectively but Lan and Galad were superior emotionally and mentally.

It's the same with Gawyn.

 

I think BS hinted at this very thing when he said "Gawyn isn't as good as he thinks he is."

You would never relate such a statement to Lan or Galad, neither of them ever think that way.

 

"Hair" difference between (Land and Ryne) according to Moraine. That was Lan as a relatively young man, he has only gotten much better.

 

The difference between Valda and Galad was greater. Valda was probably #3 ranked blademaster after Lan and Rand, if not as good as Rand. I have little doubt that Galad will become at least as good as Valda.

 

Valda is too emotional and toys around = his undoing. You can't ever toy or take another fighter with that kind of skill lightly (real world example, in MMA, GSP vs. Matt Serra I).

 

In the real world, fighters peak at around 30, with the Warder bond that is probably extended to 50 years.

 

 

Gawyn's emotion gets the better of him and he is physically weak (compared to the likes of Lan and Rand).

 

There is no way he could ever take as much damage as Lan or Rand and continue to fight, same goes for any other blademaster. Rest of blademasters are relatively weak (of mind) compared to the likes of Rand and Lan.

 

According to real fighters, 90% of the battle is the mind...only 10% is physical. Someone like Fedor said 100% is the mind.

[Finnssss22]

 

"Hair" difference between (Land and Ryne) according to Moraine. That was Lan as a relatively young man, he has only gotten much better.

 

 

According to who? Moiraine? Not only is her judgment ridiculously lacking in this department, that "Hair" difference is based on the single glance she had time to make.

 

It was more than just a hair, both of them knew it and both of them said it.

[Elan Tedronai]

lan taking out galad and gawyn at the same time is probably the funniest shit i have read here. Entreri, the andoran brothers are not your average warders.

 

I still maintain that gawyn possess more talent than his brother and malkieri king judging by his impressive CV.

 

Talent with the sword is what ranks blademasters. Experience refines your skills. when gawyn schooled sleete he was taking the mic out a highly experienced warder. that was his talent shining through.In real terms it's like a junior doctor showing up a consultant. That's highly impressive.

[idiostock]

It doesn't really matter what you think because Word of God is, you're wrong.

 

You're beating a dead horse. Care to argue Taimandred while you're here?

[Elan Tedronai]

It doesn't really matter what you think because Word of God is, you're wrong.

 

You're beating a dead horse. Care to argue Taimandred while you're here?

 

1 vs 1 may be. 2 vs 1, nah the malkier king will meet a swift end. And for the record i do not care much about what sanderson says.

[lordofsoup]

Lan and Rhuarc. Tops. Both are far older, so in their prime it would not even be a contest.

[Skeeve the Great]

I would hope people stop bringing up Gawyn killing Warders during the White Tower coup as some kind of proof it was anything remotely honest or fair blademasters fight. We just don't know how it went.

 

Judging by what Gawyn is as a person, it well may be that he just snuck upon them and put a knife into their back. Or even worse. Since his teachers liked him a lot, I imagine he strolled down to them, asked them how are they doing, bla-bla-bla, and then they turned their backs and he just cowardly striked them in the back.

 

Or it could've been that Hammar trounced Gawyn severely in the battle, but let him live since Hammar does not kill defeated and crumbling opponents let alone his pupils, and most likely he reached out to lift Gawyn from the ground, but Gawyn took the knife from the boot and put it in the teacher's belly.

[MierinWru]

Lan and Rhuarc. Tops. Both are far older, so in their prime it would not even be a contest.

 

How can Rhuarc be considered a Blademaster considering he's an Aiel who'll never even touch a sword?

 

 

 

[Kal11]

Personally reading the books I never thought it was in question that Lan is the top dog when it comes to killing things with a sword. It is pretty clear he is in a class all by himself and a legend. Gawyn killed a couple Blademasters, big deal. Lan has killed Blademasters and fades both with relative ease, not to mention a darkhound. He also fought the Aiel and afterwards was treated like a legend by them even. I think he might have even taken that pack of worms had Moiraine allowed him to in TEOTW.

 

Gawyn has improved as the series progressed but he is still a relatively inexperienced kid that has led an overall priveleged and protected life, most of his experience has come in training. Lan is in an entirely different league not just in swordsmanship but personality and life experience, the guy has been tempered and tested in every way imagineable. There is a lot of weight carried by practical experience in any kind of violence.

That's the one thing I need to dispute, everything else is solid. Gawyn has actually had a ton of practical experience, from the fight in the WT to Dumai's Wells to the three Bloodknives. He's gotten his feet wet.

 

Getting your feet wet and decades of experience are two vastly different things. Not saying Gawyn is a total nooblet but the character is still very limited in the experience department (iirc the Bloodknives were the only time he was ever in true danger of dying, been awhile since I read LoC and the WT scene was offscreen)and immature in many ways, he certainly is not battle hardened as of yet. I just don't see Lan not totally destroying him.

[Entreri]

It doesn't really matter what you think because Word of God is, you're wrong.

 

You're beating a dead horse. Care to argue Taimandred while you're here?

 

1 vs 1 may be. 2 vs 1, nah the malkier king will meet a swift end. And for the record i do not care much about what sanderson says.

 

Most certainly. Galad and Gawyn are great, but that great. After all, Mat beat both of them at once.

 

In that regard it is completely irrelevant what you think should be, the creators of series know.

[Entreri]

Lan and Rhuarc. Tops. Both are far older, so in their prime it would not even be a contest.

 

How can Rhuarc be considered a Blademaster considering he's an Aiel who'll never even touch a sword?

 

 

True. However, aside from Lan, Rhuarc would defeat any blademaster. Read Perrin's assessment of their prowess in book 4.

[Mongoose]

Most certainly. Galad and Gawyn are great, but that great. After all, Mat beat both of them at once.

 

In that regard it is completely irrelevant what you think should be, the creators of series know.

 

I think that has less to do with Mat's skill or the Princelings' lack of skill, but the fact that a quarterstaff offers a huge advantage in a fight against sword, particularily swords that can't cut.

 

After all, after the fight, Hammar made the point that Jearom lost a fight to some farmer with a stick.

[Entreri]

Most certainly. Galad and Gawyn are great, but that great. After all, Mat beat both of them at once.

 

In that regard it is completely irrelevant what you think should be, the creators of series know.

 

I think that has less to do with Mat's skill or the Princelings' lack of skill, but the fact that a quarterstaff offers a huge advantage in a fight against sword, particularily swords that can't cut.

 

After all, after the fight, Hammar made the point that Jearom lost a fight to some farmer with a stick.

 

Yes, the point about the quarterstaff and its reach is valid. Also at that time neither Galad or Gawyn were as good as they are now. Mat: "almost as good as the Warders" (Mat POV when fighting Galad).

 

However, Lan is several leagues/levels above Galad and Gawyn. Lan would see that Gawyn was the weaker of the two and finish him quickly and take on Galad. Similar to what Mat did.

 

Supposedly Jearom lost to a farmer, could very well be a tall tale...used as a warning to not become too cocky (did not help the likes of Valda or Ryne).

[MierinWru]

However, Lan is several leagues/levels above Galad and Gawyn. Lan would see that Gawyn was the weaker of the two and finish him quickly and take on Galad. Similar to what Mat did.

 

 

You present that as if it was a fact but obviously you have no proof for Lan being "several leagues above Galas and Gawyn". I would like to agree with you but I'm wondering if that has to do with me (and most others) just not liking Gawyn and Galad whereas Lan is a fan favourite.

I suppose Lan does have more experience and is probably used to being wounded, too which can help in a fight but ultimately the "better swordsman" is he who Sanderson and Jordan want to win the fight. Rand has repeatedly beaten people with way more experience than him, Gawyn killed warders when the White Tower got rid of Siuan, didn't he?

 

Personally I'll always claim that Lan would kick Gawyn's sorry butt, though.

[Jon Paul]

Rand has repeatedly beaten people with way more experience than him,

 

Rand Sedai is a 400+ year old avatar of awesome who's impressive swordsman's CV includes such little things as redefining the entire concept of swordsmanship and introducing it as a viable means of personal defence in the biggest war in history. It needs to be kept in mind that Rand has always been Lews Therin. He has simply not always remembered it.

 

The sword being such a central aspect of his personal identity and considering the fact that until he lost his hand he never put the thing down it's no wonder he was so good in so short a time. But this just says how good Lan really is if he surpasses Lews Therin.

 

Now when Gawyn can be out training one morning and can pick off a grasshopper with his back turned to it, in the blink of an eye, then we can talk (it might not have been a grasshopper that Lan nailed when Egwene found him with the Salidar witches).

[MierinWru]

Rand has repeatedly beaten people with way more experience than him,

 

Rand Sedai is a 400+ year old avatar of awesome who's impressive swordsman's CV includes such little things as redefining the entire concept of swordsmanship and introducing it as a viable means of personal defence in the biggest war in history. It needs to be kept in mind that Rand has always been Lews Therin. He has simply not always remembered it.

 

The sword is such a central aspect of his personal identity and then considering the fact that until he lost his hand he never put the thing down it's no wonder he was so good in so short a time.

 

I knew somebody would bring that up, I'm just not sure if i'm buying it. When Rand had to "sheath the sword" it certainly wasn't his "400+year old avatar soul's" experience that told him to do it. Basically everybody from Emond's Field (=the 3 boys, Egwene and Nyn) has beaten more experienced fighters/channelers in the book simply because it was needed for the plot. They're all some sort of 'wunderkind' I guess. And like I said what makes you think that Lan is any better than the warders that were killed by Gawyn?

Oh, right... it's WoT... everybody's "special" here and none of the heroes ever dies.

[Jon Paul]

I knew somebody would bring that up, I'm just not sure if i'm buying it. When Rand had to "sheath the sword" it certainly wasn't his "400+year old avatar soul's" experience that told him to do it.

 

I'm not saying that Rand Sedai's current incarnation didn't need a bit of a jog to warm its self up, which is where Lan came in. But he took to the sword because of his own innate connection with it from his past life which also happens to be his current life. You cannot look at Rand Sedai and Lews Therin as two different people.

 

Basically everybody from Emond's Field (=the 3 boys, Egwene and Nyn) has beaten more experienced fighters/channelers in the book simply because it was needed for the plot. They're all some sort of 'wunderkind' I guess.

 

Most of their victories are actually quite plausible however?

 

And like I said what makes you think that Lan is any better than the warders that were killed by Gawyn?

 

When other Gaiden around are Lan they either cum in their trousers or faint. That says enough.

 

Oh, right... it's WoT... everybody's "special" here and none of the heroes ever dies.

 

If I want to read death-porn I'll try re-reading ASOIAF some day !

[MierinWru]

I'm not saying that Rand Sedai's current incarnation didn't need a bit of a jog to warm its self up, which is where Lan came in. But he took to the sword because of his own innate connection with it from his past life which also happens to be his current life. You cannot look at Rand Sedai and Lews Therin as two different people.

 

Not now but I guess it's debatable how much his past experience from other ages really helped him initially. I do agree with you, though. But I think Rand's case is special. I find his victories plausible.

 

Most of their victories are actually quite plausible however?

Are they, really?

I think the fact that the young heroes are always able to defeat everybody else is a bit too much at times. It makes the world feel less dangerous. They're all oh-so-strong channelers or oh-so-awesome fighters for some reason without even needing much training.

Ta'veren you say? I guess so! But then again ta'veren is a pretty lame plot device then. It's the easy way out for Jordan whenever there's no way to properly explain something. But hey, it's his world, he made it, he decided that ta'veren change everything (even though Elayne and Nyn aren't ta'veren, are they?)

Don't get me wrong: I love the books, the story and the characters but sometimes it's just a bit too much unsubtle wish fulfillment fantasy and there are just too many "Mary Sues" around. Everybody is awesome, handsome and special.

 

If I want to read death-porn I'll try re-reading ASOIAF some day !

 

I prefer WoT but to be fair I do think ASOIAF has some elements the WoT is in dire need of. :)

Well, no. Now it's too late anyway. Changing the style now would be silly.

 

That got me thinking, though. I'm already seeing Galad throwing little kids out of windows because they saw him having sex with his sister Elayne. Also: Why does the WoT not have a horny dwarf among the main cast? And most of all: Where are the brothels?

[Barid Bel Medar]

 

That got me thinking, though. I'm already seeing Galad throwing little kids out of windows because they saw him having sex with his sister Elayne. Also: Why does the WoT not have a horny dwarf among the main cast? And most of all: Where are the brothels?

 

hahaha, now every time i read Jamie, i will think of Galad (and vice versa). Maybe all that "dislike" on Elayne's part is really hiding the truth....

 

as for the horny dwarf. Well, I dont know about horny, but Fortuna likes petting her damane perhaps a bit too much.

 

And as for the brothels, remember that the world is very much Female Dominated. I really dont think any woman in the majority of the nations would stand for such nonsense (not to mention the Aes Sedai -even more, not to mention the Reds!)

 

To be fair though, there are a few conspicuous taverns around the place like the "Nine Horse Hitch"

 

Edit: wait, no. I am thinking of the wrong thread :)

[Entreri]

However, Lan is several leagues/levels above Galad and Gawyn. Lan would see that Gawyn was the weaker of the two and finish him quickly and take on Galad. Similar to what Mat did.

 

 

You present that as if it was a fact but obviously you have no proof for Lan being "several leagues above Galas and Gawyn". I would like to agree with you but I'm wondering if that has to do with me (and most others) just not liking Gawyn and Galad whereas Lan is a fan favourite.

I suppose Lan does have more experience and is probably used to being wounded, too which can help in a fight but ultimately the "better swordsman" is he who Sanderson and Jordan want to win the fight. Rand has repeatedly beaten people with way more experience than him, Gawyn killed warders when the White Tower got rid of Siuan, didn't he?

 

Personally I'll always claim that Lan would kick Gawyn's sorry butt, though.

 

Then these people are being childish.

 

This the Creators Champion = his champion is the strongest, as was been proven in AoL.

 

LTT was probably the best swordsman in AoL (given comments by Be'lal, and Rand quickly becoming a blademaster in this Age), strongest/most skilled Aes Sedai of AoL, leader of the AS in AoL, humbling Ishamael/strongest and most powerful of the Forsaken.

 

For Lan to be actually be better than him...

 

These rankings are based on what Jordan and Sanderson have said: Lan > Rand > Galad > Gawyn. Likely: Lan > LTT > Rand > Galad > Gawyn...

 

So most certainly, Lan is well above Galad and Gawyn, indeed several 'levels'/people separate their abilities: Rand would beat Galad, Galad would beat Gawyn.

[Entreri]

Rand has repeatedly beaten people with way more experience than him,

 

Rand Sedai is a 400+ year old avatar of awesome who's impressive swordsman's CV includes such little things as redefining the entire concept of swordsmanship and introducing it as a viable means of personal defence in the biggest war in history. It needs to be kept in mind that Rand has always been Lews Therin. He has simply not always remembered it.

 

The sword is such a central aspect of his personal identity and then considering the fact that until he lost his hand he never put the thing down it's no wonder he was so good in so short a time.

 

I knew somebody would bring that up, I'm just not sure if i'm buying it. When Rand had to "sheath the sword" it certainly wasn't his "400+year old avatar soul's" experience that told him to do it. Basically everybody from Emond's Field (=the 3 boys, Egwene and Nyn) has beaten more experienced fighters/channelers in the book simply because it was needed for the plot. They're all some sort of 'wunderkind' I guess. And like I said what makes you think that Lan is any better than the warders that were killed by Gawyn?

Oh, right... it's WoT... everybody's "special" here and none of the heroes ever dies.

 

LTT's memories get passed through to Rand without him knowing. Example: EoTW, when he defeated Ishamael...DR when he balefired Darkhounds (Perrin was watching) etc. The way the world is designed, yes, essentially all the top players come from Edmonds Field.

 

As for Lan, he is the best according to Jordan and Brandon. You can find their rankings online. The Warders also see Lan as the best.

[Barid Bel Medar]

There has been some debate with Brandon on twitter about LTT memories slipping through.

 

Brandon seems confident, or at least supports the theory that Rand experiences a seeping of memories onscreen as early as tEotW: Chapter 9. (when he 'dreams' of Thom reciting the fisher king prophecy line)

 

Even if this is not the case, as Enteri said, he experiences some of LTT powers in EotW for sure.

 

having said that, however, I have no idea if this would be strong enough to grant him super skill with the blade so early on.

[Finnssss22]

Why do people think that just because LTT was good with a sword, that he would be better than or even close to Lan?

Learning the sword was only a hobby for them, an ancient game to play before the War of Power and does anyone think they actually used a sword much during the War?

They were Generals and more importantly channelers, LTT wouldn't of had any more practical use for a sword than Rand did at Maradon.

 

Lan on the other hand lives by his sword, he IS his sword and has a practical use for it daily.

 

I find it highly doubtful that anything in the AoL could of provided LTT and co with anything close to the level of training Lan has had.

[Zentari]

Why do people think that just because LTT was good with a sword, that he would be better than or even close to Lan?

Learning the sword was only a hobby for them, an ancient game to play before the War of Power and does anyone think they actually used a sword much during the War?

The hobby they turned into a killing tool,something which goes a long way past what the average (if such word applies to them) blademaster does.It's way easier learning a martial art than creating your own so it's fair to say that were quite good with it and that's putting it mildly.

 

They were Generals and more importantly channelers, LTT wouldn't of had any more practical use for a sword than Rand did at Maradon.

 

They saw a NEED to do so.If your argument was right, they wouldn't have done it, so obviously it was needed and got chances to practice it too.

[Finnssss22]

Why do people think that just because LTT was good with a sword, that he would be better than or even close to Lan?

Learning the sword was only a hobby for them, an ancient game to play before the War of Power and does anyone think they actually used a sword much during the War?

The hobby they turned into a killing tool,something which goes a long way past what the average (if such word applies to them) blademaster does.It's way easier learning a martial art than creating your own so it's fair to say that were quite good with it and that's putting it mildly.

 

They didn't invent anything, they studied an ancient practice as a hobby and something fun to do together.

 

They were Generals and more importantly channelers, LTT wouldn't of had any more practical use for a sword than Rand did at Maradon.

 

They saw a NEED to do so.If your argument was right, they wouldn't have done it, so obviously it was needed and got chances to practice it too.

 

They didn't see a NEED to do anything. LTT, Sammy and Be'lal took up the hobby for fun, long before they even knew what the word War was.