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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Deaths of the Forsaken. How do you rate them.


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The one that irked me the most was the death of Sammael, as at the time he was my fave Forsaken because he was so active and we were aware of it. His death was a bit lame and I keep expecting him to come back because his demise was so unsure. When I read Mr Jordans comment on Sammael on here I was again annoyed, no more Sammael. So it was doubly disappointing.

 

I think 1 being the most satisfying death and 10 being the opposite.

 

So Sammaels is a ten for me.

 

Aginors second death a six. His deaths suited his character really. Didn't really do much in between deaths, why bring him back.In fact most of the Forsaken that have came back have been disappointing except Moridin.

 

Asmodean is prob a three. So unexpected and still shrouded in mystery. Although it might of been Grendal. Not discussing amso's killer luckers. Sorry for even bring it up.

 

Okay maybe confrontations that ending in a fight as well should be added. Like Nynaeve and Moggie in Ebou Tar, I think. In the museum place with the two of them slapping shields on themselves. That would be like a two liked that. I also agree with whoever said that Nyn deserves to take down a better forsaken.

 

Lanfear demise in Cairehin. That would be like a one. It built Rand so much of a character since and the death of Moraine, class.

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Bel'al was best for me (I'd give it an easy "1"), just because it was so cinematic in how it happened.  I've always loved that scene as one of my favorites in the entire series.  Rahvin comes next (maybe also a "1," but at least a "2").  None of the rest really strike me in either a positive or negative way, so I'd rank all the rest as "5."

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Aginor: 3, since he and Balthamel were the first.  They really set the stage for the rest of the series.

Aginor2: 8.  I laughed when Elza killed him.

Balthamel: 3. See above.

Be'lal: 5.  Moiraine's first kill!  Pretty anticlimactic, though.

Asmodean: 2.  There's a reason he's still discussed fifteen years later.

Rahvin: 1.  The first real "fight", and showed what Rand was capable of.

Lanfear: 2. Just for comedic value.

Sammael: 9. Rand was robbed!

Semirhage: 5. Unexpected as far as the methods.

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rahvin and simirhage were difinatly my favorite just because it was so cool so 1s.i loved greandals "death" because just the image it brought to mind.. it was epic. aginor 2 was helarious. lanfear i didnt like that much idk why.

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Guest Emu on the Loose

So, "1" is the best on this scale? Thus "5" is mediocre and "10" is downright rotten? Okay, then:

 

Aginor: 7 -- lame villain hubris

Balty: 4 -- waste of a perfectly good Nym

Ishamael: 3 -- not bad; could've been more drawn out

Be'lal: 6 -- dull

Lanfear: 3 -- one of those "the plot requires it" deaths; she should have won

Rahvin: 7 -- ditto, except less dramatic

Asmodean: 6 -- waste of a perfectly good Asmodean

Sammael: 4 -- should have been drawn out more; the most horrific Forsaken death

Osan'gar: 6 -- waste of a perfectly good hill

Demandred: 8 -- from the Klingon point of view, his plot irrelevance is death

Semirhage: 5 -- excellent concept, poor execution

Grendael: 7 -- waste of the best-developed remaining original Forsaken

 

Predictions:

 

Moridin: 2 -- or he won't die; but if he does it should be one of the best Forsaken deaths

Moghedien: 3 -- I'm guessing her mindtrap will be crushed; gruesome and new most horrific Forsaken death

Demandred: 6 -- people are gonna be disappointed by this one, given how long he's been reserved

Aran'gar: 7 -- I don't see much interesting happening here

Cyndane: 6 -- no clue how this'll play out; I hope for the best but rate pessimistically

Mesaana: 4 -- I think this'll be decent

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Ok, I guess we're not ranking these really. So by whatever scale this is I guess I'd say this...

 

Aginor: 4- It was a good death that was fun to read, but seemed kinda sudden.

Balthamel: 3- I loved the imagery of his death.

Be'lal: 6- Really sudden and kind of a waste.

Ishamael: 2- Hard to kill and fantastic battles each time. Really made Rand work for it.

Lanfear: 1- One of my favorite deaths. Very iconic, lots of mystery.

Rahvin: 2- Made Rand work for it, and taking that much balefire is impressive.

Asmodean: 3- I love the sudden kill here where his murderer is a mystery.

Sammael: 7- I like the idea of Mashadar killing him fine, I just wish we'd seen it.

Osan'gar: 8- Too sudden, kind of a waste.

Semirhage: 1- Really bad ass scene. Ranks as one of the best.

Graendal: 7- I love the idea of that much balefire being used, but I would have liked to see her die.

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Aginor: 3, Eye of the World killed him. Not bad

Aginor2: 4. Elza killed him. I appreciate it allot now because Verin's compulsion saved Rand's life. And everything Verin touched turned to gold.

Balthamel: 1. Never underestimate a Tree Man

Be'lal: 2.  Moiraine is awesome. I love a good sneak attack. Be'lal really wanted that sword. He'd be nea'blis for sure

Ishy 4. I like him cause he spent so much time weaving Fire eyes and mouth. I would too if I was a super evil guy. I thought it was funny/smart for him to run into the world of dreams, but I'd travel to the pit of dhoom instead. Rand would have got owned there.

Asmodean: 3.  I won't be sure about this score until killer is identified

Rahvin: 3.  Awesome fight, but i prefer one on ones

Sammael: 6. Not even a scream. come on

Semirhage: 1. She should have just grabbed Rand and left. She got what she deserved. Did not see that coming!  

Graendal 1. LOVED IT. Rand was harder then the Forsaken. I think there is no other probable end for her except for an AOE SNEAK ATTACK. Light I love sneak attacks.

Lanfear died After being held by the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn. So I score that when I learn more of her treatment and death.

 

forgot ishy at first

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Good topic. My rankings are from best down to worst:

 

1. Semirhage-amazing buildup and climax.  My jaw dropped multiple times when I read the scene.

2. Rahvin-great back and forth fight, using multiple methods.  Gripping fight scene

3. Ishamael-loved the descriptions of other battles going on around them in the Stone, similar to the description of the Falme scene.

4. Asmodean-if we're still debating who his killer is for the last 15 years...

5. Aginor-loved how he fought Rand for control of the Eye prior to his death.  Tightly written scene.

6. Sammael-I agree with several others that death by Mashadar proved to be anticlimactic after such a closely fought battle.

7. Balthamel-sad way for the Green Man to go, but what a way to go out.

8. Be'lal-I thought that after he had been built up throughout TDR he was taken out too quickly. Although I'm glad Moiraine was the one to do it.

9. Osan'gar-Aginor's second go-round really didn't do much for me, and as such this death really didn't resonate like the other ones listed above.

* Graendal-if it turns out that she is indeed toast, I will be very disappointed she was taken out "off-camera" after all of her character development.  I'll reserve final judgement on this until ToM.

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Hmmm

 

Semirhage: 8. Same reason as Emu, good scene idea but it just didnt play out as well as it could. Too much RAnd thinking time with the bracelet on.

 

Rahvin: 1. Rand was giving all he had and was losing. Nynaeves intervention didnt seem as tackyas some other Forsaken duels when Rand had help, plus the image of Rahvins melted eyes as he turned to kill Nynaeve... Awesome. Go Rahvin!

 

Ishamael: 1. Come on, he didnt go down without the best fight ever. He permanently wounded Rand, which is a considerable feat when Rand has the Wheel to weave events around him.

 

Asmodean: 8. How can someone whose PoV it was from not instantly think of the name of a person they see imemediately upon recognising them. "...took one step and stopped." Explain what hes thinking like you have with every PoV character!

 

Aginor: 6. Wasnt impressed. Having a Forsaken on screen at the time was in itself a climax but his death I think was too... easy, considering he was with Balthamel. Balthamel should have struggled with Rand, Aginor struck out at the Nym with the Power, being aware of some sort of One Power construct weak point... meh.

 

Sammael: 3. Forsaken deceit at work, and Moridin no less, presumably deciding Sammael was expendable because he had been disobeying orders. Plus a Mashadar death is interesting in that the Dark One now cant reincarnate Sammael. I liked Sammaels desperateness in his retreat to Shadar Logoth. And the buildup was big enough as well; Rand had Mat marching an army to Illian, only to storm it with the Ashaman.

 

Lanfear: 3. Skinning Kadere was nice. Nobody could stand against her, and Moiraine tackling her into the doorframe... epic scene. Would have been better if Lanfear killed a good guy, but that never happens, so...

 

Osan'gar: 10. Purely a portrayal of Verins influence, which was crap. Elza is in no way worth a Forsaken kill; the fact that she killed Osan'gar makes me like her less.

 

Bel'al: 6. Moiraine needed the kill to add to her reputation, and she needed to use balefire so Rand could rediscover it via Lews Therins memories... but the kill was so sudden... I think we have established by now that a Forsaken should never die during their first onscreen appearance.

 

Graendal... isnt dead. She cant be, she just cant. There are too many ways for her to escape, and it was too easy for her to see what Rand was really doing, in my oppinion.

 

I agree that Rand vs Asmodean was exciting. Didnt they cut a mountain in half with balefire?

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Graendal... isnt dead. She cant be, she just cant. There are too many ways for her to escape, and it was too easy for her to see what Rand was really doing, in my oppinion.

 

 

Graendal's death is my favorite! If she not dead I'll be a sad panda:[

 

Plus descriptions say her compulsions leave her victims too dumb for anything but pleasure. That means she'd have to have a NOT-dumb compulsioned Channeller capable of channeling complex compulsion just the way she'd want. I think shes dead...

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Ishamael: 1.  This was a cool fight

Rahvin: 1.  See above

Lanfear: 1.  Loved that scene

Asmodean: Either a 1 or a 10, depending on my mood on a given day

Aginor: 5.  See what the author was going at, didn't quite like the way it was done

Balthamel: 3.  Cool how he totally dismissed the guy and then got killed by him

Bel'al: 2.  Liked that scene

Graendal: 8.  See what the author was going for, thought it was lame how it was done

Sammael: 10.  Decent fight that was totally ruined by Sammael dying offscreen

Osan'gar: 1.  Probably the funniest moment in the series

Semirhage: 5.  The deus ex machina of Rand suddenly having a random power that let's him escape and win isn't really offset by knowing the setup behind why that was

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Hard to rank them, so I'll go groups:

 

Very good deaths:

 

Balthamel: loved the Green Man's victory, though it was at a high cost. Very sad. Crying at Loial's Treesong.

Ishamael: good build up and a good fight in the Stone.

Rahvin: great fight.

Lanfear: great character issues with that one. Still being felt.

 

Good:

 

Be'lal: Rand was in trouble, Moiraine saved his bacon.

Asmodean: Great mystery, no struggle or buildup. Nice to see it can happen fast.

Oran'gar: Killed by Elza = Lame. Still, shows what a link can do. Plus, the cleansing scene was damn cool.

Semirhage: Big character ramifications, Rand's TP use could be big.

Graendal: Showing how hard Rand had become. Cool setup, and kind of linked to Semi's death. But she still deserved better. Although, he death set in motion the events leading to the scene on Dragonmount (Min's freakout, getting help).

 

Mediocre:

 

Aginor: he burned himself up? They Eye? Kind of lame for a Forsaken.

Sammael: My favorite Forsaken deserved better. Moridin betrayed him.

 

And though she hasn't been killed, Moggy has been in two pretty good scenes (Rahvin's death and the battle with Nynaeve).

 

 

 

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