TOWERS OF MIDNIGHT cover art, blurb and opening paragraph

[evelynne_r]

OK, just I've just been rereading The Shadow Rising, and was reminded that Perrin's nemesis Slayer was seen in the Wolf Dream/Tel'aran'rhiod fleeing into the Tower of Ghenjei.  Perrin was warned by Birgitte not to follow him as it was impossible to leave again.  That isn't too far removed from "Perrin Aybara is hunted by spectres from his past. To prevail, he must find a way to master the wolf within him or lose himself to it forever."  Now that Perrin has completed The Plotline That Wouldn't Die, maybe we'll see a two-pronged attack on the Tower of Ghenjei.  I think we're about due for a ta'veren reunion  :)

[DemandredFO]

No, Perrin to stupid to tangle with the Finns unless they capture Faile.  I think we will see a taveren reunion in this book but it seems more likely to be Rand and Perrin because Rand still has to deal with the borderlanders who happen to be in far madding at the moment and happen to have 13 sisters in attendance.  Perrin just happens to have an amicable relation with Tylee.  Mat might show up but more likely he'll go back to Andor after ToG, maybe get Moraine and Setalle healed then travel with Elayne's army to the White Tower to save it from the boiling shadowspawn.  All roads will eventually lead to Tar Valon.  I'm looking forward to Egwene getting really pissed because she needs anyone and everyone to save her from Trollocs and who knows what else.  BRING IT ON!!! just a little excited

[Dreamwalker]

No, Perrin to stupid to tangle with the Finns unless they capture Faile.  I think we will see a taveren reunion in this book but it seems more likely to be Rand and Perrin because Rand still has to deal with the borderlanders who happen to be in far madding at the moment and happen to have 13 sisters in attendance.  Perrin just happens to have an amicable relation with Tylee.  Mat might show up but more likely he'll go back to Andor after ToG, maybe get Moraine and Setalle healed then travel with Elayne's army to the White Tower to save it from the boiling shadowspawn.  All roads will eventually lead to Tar Valon.  I'm looking forward to Egwene getting really pissed because she needs anyone and everyone to save her from Trollocs and who knows what else.  BRING IT ON!!! just a little excited

 

I can't wait to see a ta'veren reunion just because I want to see what happens with the color swirls when they are in the same room. I suspect they might not be reunited until AMoL though. I've assumed the color swirls are a result of their three threads becoming more connected. Also, I think the color swirls could play a big role in the Last Battle - they would allow the ta'veren to coordinate their actions even if they are separated by a couple hundred miles.  ;D

[NoGuessing]

I'm looking forward to seeing who goes into the Pit of Doom with Rand in AMOL. He can't do it by himself, and iirc he needs girls.

 

Is this our chance to kill some of the girls that get annoying? Pity Gawyn can't channel either. :p I'd kill him off first.

[Balefire to da face!]

I don't really feeling like sifting through all 11 pages of this thread, so could someone tell me if somewhere along the way we have gotten any solid info on whether ToM will make it out in '10 or if it's going to leak into '11?

[Shard]

I don't really feeling like sifting through all 11 pages of this thread, so could someone tell me if somewhere along the way we have gotten any solid info on whether ToM will make it out in '10 or if it's going to leak into '11?

 

Brandon confirmed that he is still on schedule for this year.

[JakeBarnes]

Could the third person on the cover be Talmanes? 

In the version without the censor bar it looks like there are 3 yellow things on the back of the guy's shirt.  Maybe these are the three stars over blue (or almost purple, thanks to Sweet) that make up his con.

 

There is no other evidence which suggests this, but the possibility was kind of interesting.

[Dreamwalker]

Could the third person on the cover be Talmanes? 

In the version without the censor bar it looks like there are 3 yellow things on the back of the guy's shirt.  Maybe these are the three stars over blue (or almost purple, thanks to Sweet) that make up his con.

 

There is no other evidence which suggests this, but the possibility was kind of interesting.

 

I'd had that thought too - if Noal didn't go I would say Talmanes would be the next option, just because he's always got Mat's back. But the guy's outfit is just so outlandish that I highly doubt you'd catch a Cairhienin nobleman dead in that thing, they always wear pretty dark conservative stuff.

[JakeBarnes]

I also just realized that Thom looks like Mr. Miagi on the cover

[Charlz Guybon]

Not the Seanchan, the Light. The Light's forces as a whole outnumber the forces of the Shadow, and they have a supremacy of channelers. That's even the most generous estimates, based on the information given. Either the Shadow has armies of channelers unmentioned, or they are going to rely heavily on having infiltrated the Light. And of course my points are good. Unlike most armchair strategists, I do have some idea of what I'm talking about.

The Light outnumbers the Shadow? Among channalers certainly, but there's no way there are more human soldiers than Trollocs. They were able to smash the Ten Nations, the least of which was stronger than Andor and Cairhein combined while fighting the Aeil and Shara at the same time. There must have been millions and millions of them in the field.

[Random Man]

Not the Seanchan, the Light. The Light's forces as a whole outnumber the forces of the Shadow, and they have a supremacy of channelers. That's even the most generous estimates, based on the information given. Either the Shadow has armies of channelers unmentioned, or they are going to rely heavily on having infiltrated the Light. And of course my points are good. Unlike most armchair strategists, I do have some idea of what I'm talking about.

The Light outnumbers the Shadow? Among channalers certainly, but there's no way there are more human soldiers than Trollocs. They were able to smash the Ten Nations, the least of which was stronger than Andor and Cairhein combined while fighting the Aeil and Shara at the same time. There must have been millions and millions of them in the field.

Yes, the ambiguous "order of magnitude" of Trollocs greater than could be supported by the Blight quote really casts doubt into what numerical advantage the Light would hope to have, even if the Light has the edge in channelers. Moiraine (one of the stronger female channelers of the 3rd Age), aided with an Angreal, was quickly forced to beat a hasty retreat from a thousand trollocs in EoTW. If we were to give the Light a 5,000-channeler edge, and be generous and say each channeler would be worth 500 trollocs in the field, they'd be overrun at the expense of approximately 2.5 million trollocs. If we were to suppose coordination, linking, and strategic planning all favored the Light's channelers over the Dark's forces, I'd double the average channeler's worth in trollocs he/she could kill before being overwhelmed. That brings it to 5 million trollocs. And for every Alivia, Rand with Callandor or Egwene with Vora's Sa'angreal, or some similar outmatching of the Light vs the Shadowspawn, there's going to be a number of weaker channelers to weigh the average back down. I would not be surprised if there wasn't at least another 5 million Trollocs left to deal with the mundane forces of ~1 million troops. Perhaps certain groups (Band, Two Rivers bowman under ideal circumstances, and Aiel) could survive with 5-1, or greater, odds, but the majority of the armies aren't going to be able to.

 

The fact of the matter is that none of us have any real way to assess the actual strength of what the Shadow might be able to field at this point, so we're all being armchair strategists, or Saturday-night quarterbacks (to paraphrase an American sports colloquialism).

[Owayn The Traveller]

the seanchan should be able to handle the trollocs aswell.

[lordofsoup]

you forget that Moraine did not have the luxury of deathgates, and some of the other insanely powerful weaves that Rand introduced. 

 

I bet someone already posted this, i did not read the last 8 pages, but didnt RJ say that the series would not go back to Seanchan?  Maybe the pattern will go crazy and replace the Towers of Midnight with camalyn or Cairhein. 

[Charlz Guybon]

Shouldn't it be transported to Altara or Amadicia then?  Ooh... a switch with the Fortress of Light would be cool.

 

As for the cover I just saw this on twitter

 

 

I don't know when Tor will show the new cover. It's close to done now. I like it a lot; one of my favorites for the series.

 

Really Brandon? Really?

[lordofsoup]

Shouldn't it be transported to Altara or Amadicia then?  Ooh... a switch with the Fortress of Light would be cool.

 

As for the cover I just saw this on twitter

 

 

I don't know when Tor will show the new cover. It's close to done now. I like it a lot; one of my favorites for the series.

 

Really Brandon? Really?

 

well since Sweet cant draw (he is way better than me), but I bet a million bucks, it can't even compare to the ebook covers.

[TheAngryDruid]

OK, back to Winds blowing in Seanchan, Towers of midnight, and why and how the Shadow would attack in Seanchan.

 

First, in response to the "Three Towers" comment from BS. I can nominate at least four. One, The 13 Towers of Midnight in Seanchan. Two, the Black Tower (this really needs resolved too, doesn't it? Though it seems a job for Rand, Egwene, Logain, and Elayne). Three, Tower of Ghenji (though it is described as shining steel, not black). Another possibility is the Tower than we see Moridin in somewhere in the Blight. Deep in the Blight. Maybe deep in the Seanchan Blight? Which brings me to...

 

Second, how/why would Trollocs attack Seanchan?

 

As to how, my first thought is that if one makes the map round instead of flat, and thinks of the Blight as the North Pole, might it be true that if one goes far enough North, the Blight may converge (The ice almost touches Canada, Sweeden, Russia). If not a map issue, perhaps Portal Stones or True Power gateways?

 

As to why? Well, I think there might be a certain poetic appeal to 13 Black Towers. Militarily speaking, I'd see several possibilities.

 

One, they'd have a solid base to attack from. The War of the Shadow lasted for years and years, no reason to think the DO is thinking one quick stroke. A protected home base (or a 2nd one) would be nice. Human troops would have a base in a livable area.

 

Second, you'd have access to a massive amount of channelers, who are leashed to boot. Just forcibly turn some sul'dam and you are in business cranking out channelers for your side that can be quickly moved onto the field of battle in the Westlands. And access to a bunch of well trained soldiers too.

 

Lastly, since things have gone badly with the Seanchan in the west, maybe the DO fears Rand will get his Seanchan truce (maybe he knows the Tuon/Mat relationship, a pretty safe bet) and is now seeking to draw the remaining potential allies AWAY from the west and back home. Now that they aren't serving his purpose and could potentially join Rand, take them out of the game entirely.

 

Am I crazy?

 

 

 

[Random Man]

OK, back to Winds blowing in Seanchan, Towers of midnight, and why and how the Shadow would attack in Seanchan.

 

First, in response to the "Three Towers" comment from BS. I can nominate at least four. One, The 13 Towers of Midnight in Seanchan. Two, the Black Tower (this really needs resolved too, doesn't it? Though it seems a job for Rand, Egwene, Logain, and Elayne). Three, Tower of Ghenji (though it is described as shining steel, not black). Another possibility is the Tower than we see Moridin in somewhere in the Blight. Deep in the Blight. Maybe deep in the Seanchan Blight? Which brings me to...

 

Second, how/why would Trollocs attack Seanchan?

 

As to how, my first thought is that if one makes the map round instead of flat, and thinks of the Blight as the North Pole, might it be true that if one goes far enough North, the Blight may converge (The ice almost touches Canada, Sweeden, Russia). If not a map issue, perhaps Portal Stones or True Power gateways?

 

As to why? Well, I think there might be a certain poetic appeal to 13 Black Towers. Militarily speaking, I'd see several possibilities.

 

One, they'd have a solid base to attack from. The War of the Shadow lasted for years and years, no reason to think the DO is thinking one quick stroke. A protected home base (or a 2nd one) would be nice. Human troops would have a base in a livable area.

 

Second, you'd have access to a massive amount of channelers, who are leashed to boot. Just forcibly turn some sul'dam and you are in business cranking out channelers for your side that can be quickly moved onto the field of battle in the Westlands. And access to a bunch of well trained soldiers too.

 

Lastly, since things have gone badly with the Seanchan in the west, maybe the DO fears Rand will get his Seanchan truce (maybe he knows the Tuon/Mat relationship, a pretty safe bet) and is now seeking to draw the remaining potential allies AWAY from the west and back home. Now that they aren't serving his purpose and could potentially join Rand, take them out of the game entirely.

 

Am I crazy?

 

 

 

 

Moridin's fortress can't be in the Seanchan Blight, sorry. Graendal made specific note of the time shift of several hours forward, meaning she went east from Arad Doman. She pinpointed the location at deep in the northeastern Blight, which I'd say is somewhere more or less due north of Tarwin's Gap.

 

IIRC the polar ice cap in the BWB map connects Seanchan with the Westlands, but the Blight itself doesn't touch its Seanchan counterpart. You get nothing but ice when you go north from Shayol Ghul. Of course, also IIRC RJ wasn't too happy with including a map of Seanchan in the BWB to begin with and we can't rely on it for total accuracy.

 

Supposedly all of the Trollocs in Seanchan were killed, and you'd think that for them to survive they'd have to raid for food and thereby expose themselves...but the growing of "blightstrain" crops near Moridin's Dark Fortress makes me wonder. What need would there be for crops grown in the Blight? Human Darkfriends could feed the Darkfriend armies by buying up crops from farmers and merchants who don't know of their allegiances -- and this reduces the supply of food for non-DF armies. Trollocs, which can eat pretty much anything, though, can't exactly go around dealing with farmers. So it's possible that large numbers of Trollocs lived off the land in this manner with a little help while staying hidden in the Seanchan Blight, or that when Ishy was first freed ca. NE 973 he arranged to bring over a number of Trollocs to Seanchan through some means to breed and farm the Blight and so forth.

 

I have a good feeling that Semirhage's annihilation of the Emperess' family was intended to throw Seanchan into disarray, and through this force the forces of the Return to go back home and deal with the problem, thereby eliminating them as a major factor during TG. It was apparently a bit of a shocker that Tuon decided against going back home, but a hard decision that gained her the respect of the Seanchan generals.

[Phariah]

AARRRGGGHHH!!!! stop teasing me!!! gimme my fix!! :o

damn books can't stand more than 1-2 more re-reads the bindings are breaking... :-\

[FarShainMael]

Get the audio books..  ;)  ;)

 

[JakeBarnes]

The final version of the cover art has been released and I will now concede that Valan Luca is not the third man.

 

I am still not sold on Noal, though. 

 

First, Thom is the one scrawling the triangle on the Tower.  He has the moustaches and patched cloak to prove it.

Noal is described in the books as wearing a fine grey coat, while the man in the foreground is wearing blue. 

We have never been given an indication of Noal carrying a stick (though, I admit I don't think we've seen anyone with a stick but Nynaeve).

 

I really believe that Talmanes could be the third man at this point because:

1.  The man has the front of his scalp shaved. 

2.  It appears as if the top of his head is gray, but I argue that that is a reflection of the tower, because the back of his hair appears dark.

3.  Talmanes' house con is 3 yellow stars on a field of blue, which goes along with the blue coat.

 

I think these are the only 2 men who it could be at this point, and it's probably more likely to be Noal, I just haven't cared much for him as a character.

 

One other point:  Do you think that stick is the staff of black yew that Mat purchased?

[Diederichos]

Where is it, the final cover?

[JakeBarnes]

Where is it, the final cover?

 

The dragonmount news front page. 

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/News/?p=1301

[JakeBarnes]

I give up.  It's definitely Noal.  There is no way Sweet is so bad that Talmanes' being a few years older than Mat could translate into THAT old..... I think.

[lordofsoup]

I give up.  It's definitely Noal.  There is no way Sweet is so bad that Talmanes' being a few years older than Mat could translate into THAT old..... I think.

sweet could do it.  In the eye of the world, rand looks like a zombie.

 

but i too think it is Noal.

[mossman87]

I give up.  It's definitely Noal.  There is no way Sweet is so bad that Talmanes' being a few years older than Mat could translate into THAT old..... I think.

 

Oh no :(  I wonder how Dida will ignore the cover for his theory, can't wait.