TOWERS OF MIDNIGHT cover art, blurb and opening paragraph

[bronnt]

Mhmm, yeah, we had this exact same discussion last time around when we first saw Sweets draft. Its horrid, truly horrid, and I'll really rather have the "plain" black covers, which I think arent plain at all, but very tasteful.

 

 

The last cover I actually liked was TPOD.  The quality seems to have gone down since the early books, where I actually enjoyed several of the early ones.  Since then, they've been mostly forgettable.

[MsDanya]

I think my favourite is tDR, mostly because the people in the picture actually look like people.

[bronnt]

I think my favourite is tDR, mostly because the people in the picture actually look like people.

 

The funny thing is that the cover for tDR depicts a scene that is drastically different in the book.  But yes, I liked it too-you could recognize all the characters fairly easily.  EotW was also a really good cover, and I liked tGH all right as well.

[Owayn The Traveller]

Mhmm, yeah, we had this exact same discussion last time around when we first saw Sweets draft. Its horrid, truly horrid, and I'll really rather have the "plain" black covers, which I think arent plain at all, but very tasteful.

 

 

I have just seen it and had to comment even though I guessed every one else already had. It was just truly that awful.What was he thinking when he handed that in as a first draft or a possible final draft? Its truly awful. Something about it screams of a carnival's house of mirrors. Maybe its the proportions.

 

I think my favourite is tDR, mostly because the people in the picture actually look like people.

 

:). I like the one where they are sitting around the fire. Do not know why.

[Shard]

Yes but if that's all they did why are they still there?  I mean Bela been there from the beginning too but the diferrence is that despite some peoples fondest wishes Bela is just stupid @$#%^& horse.

 

It's called the Law of Conservation of Characters, not making more then you really need. So instead of creating a Ship and Captain every time they needed to go by boat Bale gets re-used. Same with Valan, but Jordan added the bit where Valan pathetically falls for Nynaeve.

[StefanR]

Another update from Brandon

 

"Brandon Sanderson - About two hundred pages of TofM revised; 200 more in this part before I can write new material. Right now, one hour off for dinner."

[Knobs Mahoney]

I think Valan Luca served the same purpose that Bale Domon did, transport our heroes from point A to point B.

 

Until Dida recants the "Lanfear =/= Cyndane" nonsense, her theories hold no water. Officially. :D

[TheBeerPatriot]

Mhmm, yeah, we had this exact same discussion last time around when we first saw Sweets draft. Its horrid, truly horrid, and I'll really rather have the "plain" black covers, which I think arent plain at all, but very tasteful.

 

 

The last cover I actually liked was TPOD.  The quality seems to have gone down since the early books, where I actually enjoyed several of the early ones.  Since then, they've been mostly forgettable.

 

I think the covers started going downhill with LoC's Harlequin romance cover.  

[MsDanya]

I agree. It was around that book that it started being embarrasing to keep the books where everyone could see. lol.

[alligator]

I agree. It was around that book that it started being embarrasing to keep the books where everyone could see. lol.

 

 

Yeah... all the books are up above my bed. People always ask about them, and when I take one out to describe its awesome-ness they get that glazed over "ew" look in their eyes. It's truly a shame. XD

 

 

But I think ToM shows promise!

[Dida]

I agree. It was around that book that it started being embarrasing to keep the books where everyone could see. lol.

 

Laugh. I still recall my embarrassment purchasing a copy of 'Lord of Chaos' years ago, which happens to be hiding in a closet now. :-[  LoC definitely is not as nice of front cover artwork as tEoW, tDR, tSR, tFoH were overall in the USA. 

 

 

Wonder why the look of Mat's spear changed in ToM versus Sweet's previous tFoH & CoT cover artwork?

 

 

The Great Hunt artwork I always thought was a tad curious, the depictions of Loial & Lanfear in particular, but I wasn't embarrassed to pull out and read from in public...unlike LoC. ;)

 

[JakeBarnes]

I really hope that isn't Valan Luca, it just would be completely out of no where and out of character for him to even risk his life in the Tower.

 

We have several pieces of evidence that suggest going to the TOG to rescue Moiraine would be completely in character for him. 

 

In TSR Ch. 25 Road To The Spear, we are introduced to Luca of the Jenn Aiel.  Luca and his friends rescued two women from bandits.  They were banished from the tribe for their use of violence in the rescue.

 

Valan Luca was introduced in TFOH and served as what was essentially an escort service to the wonder girls throughout the book, giving them the protection of a well-maintained cover.

 

When Luca next appears, in WH/COT/KOD he is doing the same for Mat's group which included the two escaped AS.  He also knew Tuon's true identity during this time, and kept her secret and safe from the assassination attempts that were coming if she had not disappeared.

 

So far most of what Valan Luca has done, though cash was a big motivation, has been to help women.  What makes me believe that it will not be him to accompany Mat and Thom, is that it wouldn't further his character development.  He has already helped many women, and he has done it without resorting to violence.  He has remained true to his Aiel heritage in that regard.  I think his part to play will be discovering what is happening in Murandy. 

 

I believe Noal is the 3rd, because he was present when Mat read Thom's letter and heard of Mat's dealings with the Finns.  He offered his help on the spot.  This would further Noal's development, by breaking his self-imposed retirement and giving the world back one of its greatest adventurers.

[metalisticpain]

I dont know why people think Luca will help? Matt and Thom left him in their dust after the killings in the town. And he couldn't wait to get rid of them.

 

Sure he help protect characters twice, but he is a very minor person. Also hes thousands of leagues apart from matt. Matt's not going to go grab him and then go to the Tower.

 

I think Noal will go in, but I dislike him... I want Thom, Matt and Olver to go in.

 

Isnt their some link between Noal, Jaim, And slayer? Something to do with the Malkari? maybe in getting mixed up...

 

EDIT: Found the link i was thinking about, not relevant

Jain Charin is credited with bringing Cowin Gemallan, called Fairheart, the betrayer of Malkier and a Darkfriend, before the Great Lords of the Seven Towers. Gemallen had been instrumental in arranging the downfall of Malkier.

 

2nd EDIT: "Jordan has confirmed that Olver has a purpose other than being a red herring however." - http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/Olver Hopefully this means Noel will turn out to be a darkfriend and olver goes with them to rescue morraine :)

[byondrch]

Am I the only one totaly thrown by the red headband?  The only red headbands I recall in the boos are the Siswai'aman.

[Ishmayl]

 

The last cover I actually liked was TPOD. 

 

I agree, I think that's my favorite cover in the series so far.  I wish they would get Michael Whelan to do the cover art.

[Isgrimner]

 

 

I believe Noal is the 3rd, because he was present when Mat read Thom's letter and heard of Mat's dealings with the Finns.  He offered his help on the spot.  This would further Noal's development, by breaking his self-imposed retirement and giving the world back one of its greatest adventurers.

 

It could be that Noal goes, and sacrifices himself while there in an act of redemption.  I think it has been forshadowed that Noal may have a dark past,and  I share the opinion of many others that he is actually Jain.  You know the 'Finns will be demanding a price of those who enter.

[Knobs Mahoney]

Mhmm, yeah, we had this exact same discussion last time around when we first saw Sweets draft. Its horrid, truly horrid, and I'll really rather have the "plain" black covers, which I think arent plain at all, but very tasteful.

 

 

The last cover I actually liked was TPOD.  The quality seems to have gone down since the early books, where I actually enjoyed several of the early ones.  Since then, they've been mostly forgettable.

 

I call that the "Fabio" cover.

 

I think the covers started going downhill with LoC's Harlequin romance cover.  

[Knobs Mahoney]

I dont know why people think Luca will help? Matt and Thom left him in their dust after the killings in the town. And he couldn't wait to get rid of them.

 

It's one of Dida's theories. I don't remember seeing it here before he/she brought it up. Anyway, Dida's convinced Valan Luca is "Luca" of the Aiel reborn. This is so out of left-field that I struggle with how to articulate it.

 

Are we to believe that just because one Aiel in the columns of Rhuidean's archive has the name "Luca" and rescued his sisters and other family members from rapists that roughly 2500 years later a guy would be reborn with the same name as his previous incarnation, but with his previous name as a last name? All this based on the idea that he (Valan Luca) is nice to women (when he's attracted to them or when he's paid, of course). Way to cheapen the nobleness of the Luca character.

 

Further, a recurrence of names happens elsewhere in this series. Lady Shiane's (the darkfriend that killed Jaichim Carridin) real name is Milli Skane. There is also a character in the Two Rivers named Milli Ayellin. They're clearly not the same person. Also, there is a character named Elwin who is one of Rand's ancestors among the Aiel (descended from Adan). Elwin Taron is the Wisdom of Deven Ride in present day Randland. Is she Elwin the Aiel reborn? I think not.

 

I'm sorry, this just doesn't compute. It would be a very cheap literary tool, and Jordan isn't really known for those.

[Dreamwalker]

 

 

I believe Noal is the 3rd, because he was present when Mat read Thom's letter and heard of Mat's dealings with the Finns.  He offered his help on the spot.  This would further Noal's development, by breaking his self-imposed retirement and giving the world back one of its greatest adventurers.

 

It could be that Noal goes, and sacrifices himself while there in an act of redemption.  I think it has been forshadowed that Noal may have a dark past,and  I share the opinion of many others that he is actually Jain.  You know the 'Finns will be demanding a price of those who enter.

 

I definitely think it's Noal going in with them, then he will die heroically and have some deathbed confession that he was actually Jain Farstrider (and some of the dark things in his past). I think he's going because he's going to need a redemption scene. But I don't think he's going to make it back out of the ToG.

[DemandredFO]

Well Ingtar and Verin had redemptive scenes so whatever Farstrider did he deserves one too.  I think it likely that Olver will sneak in and really break the rules, after farstrider dies so as to keep to the three that Moriane saw.

[Owayn The Traveller]

Noel has definitely had compulsion laid on him? I wonder if this well come into play and stop him from getting any sort of redemption. It would be different as we already had two fairly major characters, maybe Ingtar not so much, redeem themselves. Was Noel also the man who went into the stedding raving mad or just loony and then recover and tell the Ogier about Ishy's plans to blind the eye? If he was does the fact that he recovered when in the stedding point to something done to him with the power? Also doesn't he think to himself that he thoughts are fuzzy or slip away from him or something? Definitely something unexpected going to occur with Noal and I don't see redemption for him, also I think Olver will help in stopping Noal.

[Dreamwalker]

Noel has definitely had compulsion laid on him? I wonder if this well come into play and stop him from getting any sort of redemption. It would be different as we already had two fairly major characters, maybe Ingtar not so much, redeem themselves. Was Noel also the man who went into the stedding raving mad or just loony and then recover and tell the Ogier about Ishy's plans to blind the eye? If he was does the fact that he recovered when in the stedding point to something done to him with the power? Also doesn't he think to himself that he thoughts are fuzzy or slip away from him or something? Definitely something unexpected going to occur with Noal and I don't see redemption for him, also I think Olver will help in stopping Noal.

 

Well, I could see some Compulsion kicking in and him doing something crazy or bad - like trying to kill Mat or something - and then Mat having to mortally wound him to stop him. As he's dying he confesses (and we find out he was acting under Compulsion) - hence a little redemption, albeit too little too late perhaps? I think you're right, the Compulsion does need to come into play, it's been forshadowed for too long (like you said, he has mentioned his thoughts being fuzzy).

 

I think if Noal flat out just tries to kill someone and then just gets killed unceremoniously, it would be way too much like Aram, so I don't think that's going to be it.

[Dida]

Noel has definitely had compulsion laid on him?

 

Well, how do you interpret the only point of view of Jain "Noal" Charin in the whole series?

 

 

Source: A Crown of Swords book, Chapter 'The Triumph of Logic' - Noal pov in Ebou Dar, on a stakeout

 

 

Sitting on an upended barrel in the sparse coolness of a narrow, shaded alley, he studied the house across the busy street. Suddenly he realized he was touching his head again. He did not have a headache, but his head felt . . . peculiar . . . sometimes. Most often when he thought of what he could not remember.

 

Three stories of white plaster, the house belonged to a goldsmith who supposedly was being visited by two friends she had met on a journey north some years ago. The friends had only been glimpsed on arrival and not seen since. Finding that out had been easy, finding out they were Aes Sedai only a trifle more difficult.

A lean young man in a torn vest, whistling his way down the street with no good on his mind, paused when he glimpsed him sitting on the barrel. His coat and his location in the shadows—and the rest of him, he admitted ruefully—probably looked tempting. He reached under his coat. His hands no longer possessed the strength or flexibility for swordwork, but the two long knives he had carried for well over thirty years had surprised more than one swordsman. Maybe something showed in his eyes, because the lean young man thought better of it and whistled his way on.

 

Beside the house, the gate that led back to the goldsmith’s stable swung open, and two burly men appeared pushing a barrow piled high with soiled straw and muck. What were they up to? Arnin and Nad were hardly the lads to be mucking out stables.

 

He would stay here until dark, he decided, then see whether he could find Carridin’s pretty little killer again.

Once again he pulled his hand down from his head. Sooner or later, he would remember. He did not have much time left, but it was all he did have. He remembered that much.

 

  My take is, Jain "Noal" Charin has been subject to Compulsion.  There are other hints of this Compulsion, from Mat's pov in KoD Chapter 6 and from Rand's pov listening to Loial's story of him in TEotW book, Chapter 42.

 

 

  Maybe Jain Charin will remember what he is attempting to recollect; as Nynaeve did a decent time after having been subject to Moghedien's Compulsion in Tanchico?  Morgase ended up fleeing Rahvin finally, after being subject to Compulsion too. 

 

  It's possibly Noal will find redemption, yet Noal has not been straight nor forthright with Mat Cauthon at all in the story.

 

[Sharaman]

Apart from the PoV cited above, there's a statement from Ishamel in EotW about laying Compulsion on Farstrider.

Also a quote from Loial about the confusion he exhibited when he arrived in a stedding.

So if you assume they're the same guy, (which I think most do), yes Charin has been under Compulsion.

There are also a couple of points in CoT and KoD, travelling with Mat where he mysteriously disappears, reappears, which may be interpreted to mean he's doing something for GLoD.

Whether the Compulsion has some post-hypnotic command that will kick in, you don't know. It may not. Ishamel may have just used it to extract information and then let him go, broken and confused.

   

[Owayn The Traveller]

Noel has definitely had compulsion laid on him?

 

Well, how do you interpret the only point of view of Jain "Noal" Charin in the whole series?

 

 

Yes, yes, I meant that he was under compulsion and thats how I interpreted that scene.

 

Apart from the PoV cited above, there's a statement from Ishamel in EotW about laying Compulsion on Farstrider.

Also a quote from Loial about the confusion he exhibited when he arrived in a stedding.

So if you assume they're the same guy, (which I think most do), yes Charin has been under Compulsion.

There are also a couple of points in CoT and KoD, travelling with Mat where he mysteriously disappears, reappears, which may be interpreted to mean he's doing something for GLoD.

Whether the Compulsion has some post-hypnotic command that will kick in, you don't know. It may not. Ishamel may have just used it to extract information and then let him go, broken and confused.

   

 

The time when he went missing in Cot I remember and was suspious about but I don't recall it happeneing in KoD.

 

I don't think whatever Ishy put on him in first book has anything to do with Mat though as Ishy didn't even know who he was after and Noal doesn't show up till a good bit later. What book was it? And what was he doing since then? What is his compulsion? Im really excited to find out about Noal.