What if Tuon( Fortuona) snapes and she is becoming a chaneller?

[pxnsolid]

its been stated in the books that long time sul'dam develop an affinity, that the can "almost" see the weaves when a damane channels. ( i put almost in " because its pretty clear, if not said per say, that almost is they're self denial mechanism ) as fortuona is a trained sul'dam, reasoning says she too can see them.

[makaveli422]

Yes she is a suldam but remember she is only 16-18 years old. So how long has she been training damane? Iirc she looks younger than she is but I'm pretty sure she is younger than Mat and he is at most 21. Also do we know how long you have to be a suldam to start almost seeing weaves? I know Fortuona is a good trainer but is she old enough to be at that point?

[Ashaman Kovan]

Not to mention that IIRC, it's only a hobby of hers and nowhere near as full time a thing as other Sul'Dam.

[BMcGrath]

I believe that this was actually mentioned in book 11 or 10 (I don't have my books with me) and Tuon says something along the lines that she will never learn to channel.

She was tested for the spark, and she didn't have it. So she's one of those who can learn to channel, but that doesn't mean they ever will.

[ravenfier]

Tuon is 19 at the time that we meet her, she has now turned 20, If she was a sparker then she would have been caught by age 18, every woman who is a sparker will show by 18, men is in their 20's. She is only a learner. From the books she has only been working as a Sul'dam for 3ish years, when she was 16 she tested to be a Sul'dam. I think that for a Sul'dam to start "almost" seeing the weaves that the leashed ones ues, they must be activly training for at least 5 years. Because Tuon only trains as a hobby, it would probly take her longer to "almost" see, but as I posted earlier, she was not suprised to find out that Sul'dam were women who could learn. The Direct qoute is

"I am nothing like these women, Toy. Nothing like them. Perhaps I could Learn, but I choose not to....That makes all the difference"

 

because of her attitude I think that the only reason she would chose to channel would be in the last defence of her life, i.e, there was nothing left for her to do to excape the axe, like Avi did when she opened the gate to run from her feelings of Rand.

[Luckers]

I wonder if it is possible to force a learner to spark. If so this may have something to do with Rand binding the 'Nine Moons' to serve him.

 

The whole question is interesting--Fortuona has a strong enough sense of duty to try and leash herself should it happen, but what of her duty to the Empire? The damage of having a sitting Empress leashed would be terrible.

 

The previous empress used to link male and female channelers for sport to watch them die. I don't think such a link would be survivable. Tuon refers to the idea as a waste of damane.

 

Fortuona won't turn herself in as a damane. She knows she could channel if she took the time to learn to, but as she explained it to Mat, she chooses not to, so it's alright.

 

I wasn't speaking of Rand leashing Fortuona, but that if someone forcibly snaps her (which seems at least suggestively possible given the way a woman is taught to channel is by the teacher weaving a weave and inducing the testee to feel the power) it might change her thoughts on the balance of power between them. Something must, if Fortuona truly is going to be bound in Rand's service as prophecy states she will be.

 

Plus there is a pleasent sort of irony--Fortuona speaks of choice, yet no choice is offered to sparkers, ergo taking away her choice is a nice way to undercut the hypocrisy of her position.

 

That would leave her in a tough position--I've no doubt that Fortuona would be capable of following through on her morals and leashing herself (or, more probably, kill herself to save the world knowledge of the leashing of an Empress), but at this point in time, with the Empire so unstable and beleguered, her duty to stick around and lead the people through this time opposes it. Then she would truly have to make a choice, because unless someone shields her ability and trains her enough not to mishandle it, the damane would notice. She might well finally be put into the position of rethinking the Empire's thoughts on leashing channelers.

 

Of course none of this is likely. Something must happen to affect Fortuona's ideas about the ascendency of the Seanchan Empire, and something is building with the sul'dam--what with Elayne intending to send sul'dam who have touched the source back to the Empire to demand to be leashed, and with Bethamin and Seta training (likely to be Aes Sedai, though we'll see what Egwene has to say about that), and the simple fact that soon enough the Empire will be fighting side by side with marath'damane. I just sort of like someone forcing Fortuona's hand--I genuinely like her, accept for her hypocrisy on this issue, and I'm curious to see how she will respond when she can no longer maintain her double standards.

[firstfishman]

How does one snape?

[Luckers]

Jokes been done, friend. The original poster meant snap.

[Mardragon]

its been stated in the books that long time sul'dam develop an affinity, that the can "almost" see the weaves when a damane channels. ( i put almost in " because its pretty clear, if not said per say, that almost is they're self denial mechanism ) as fortuona is a trained sul'dam, reasoning says she too can see them.

 

She also saw the weaves melt away from Mat when she was linked by adam to the Aes Sedai. Of course she might only be able those weaves when she is linked with them.

 

I don't think there's much danger of her suddenly just starting to channel at this stage. I think, for those who must learn, it takes some effort to touch the True Source for the first time. Even those that spark find it difficult when they actually attempt to do it, albeit they will do it automatically without trying from time to time.

[Awakened]

I know it usually takes a while for a woman who can learn to channel to have the spark of power within them, but in the White Tower there is much talk about who spent how much time as a Novice or an Accepted. I think Tuon might be one of those women who could learn to channel but who would be through with being a Novice in near record time. It would explain why she could see the weaves melt off of Mat.

[Arani Lepenque Aes Sedai]

I seriously hope that Tuon channels and puts an end to her bickering about Aes Sedai.

[DemandredFO]

maybe learners and sparkers can channel anything from the first and don't forget Mat is Ta'veren so there could very easily be a situation where Mat is attacked by more then he can handle.  Then she flings her hand out, "Matrim" and to everyone's surprise a fireball or something comes from it.  Not saying this would happen under normal circumstances but Mat is Ta'veren.  Let's look at when people channeled and what, all sparkers but...

Rand channeled to heal she who must not be named because he wished to save Egwene

Rand drew lightning to save him and Mat from Gode

Rand channeled the EoTW to save his friends from the Foresaken

Nyneave channeled to save Egwene because she thought she was dying

[Tom Sawyer]

I thought the bit about her being able to channel was kind of stupid.  They'd spent almost the entire series building up the notion that the knowledge that sul'dam can channel as well would tear apart the Empire and that information was a great weapon that could be used against them.  Then when they finally confront one of the Seanchan rulers about it, she's like "Ya ... I know".

 

Did I misread that bit or did they just kind of throw away a major thread from the entire series?

 

[DemandredFO]

I think the descendants of Luthair know about it but I doubt anyone else, apart from the few the accidentally found out, know that this is the case.

[Sharaman]

I thought the bit about her being able to channel was kind of stupid.  They'd spent almost the entire series building up the notion that the knowledge that sul'dam can channel as well would tear apart the Empire and that information was a great weapon that could be used against them.  Then when they finally confront one of the Seanchan rulers about it, she's like "Ya ... I know".

 

Did I misread that bit or did they just kind of throw away a major thread from the entire series?

 

By the time she's confronted as you put it in KoD by Mat and makes her famous speech about choosing not to, of course she knows.

She is present on the scene when Egeanin blurts out the info in the CoT after Teslyn heals her.

(End-CoT, Renna the Sul'dam knives Egeanin and runs; Teslyn heals Egeanin; Mat asks why did she stab you?; Egeanin tells. Teslyn is shocked and loses her AS mask of serenity, Tuon's face is a dark immobile mask).

Whether Tuon knew before Eganin was stabbed, is so far, impossible to tell.

She does have another choice to "snapping" or staying a non-channeler, and I'm surprised nobody has mentioned it - she might ask to be stilled.

 

 

[makaveli422]

She does have another choice to "snapping" or staying a non-channeler, and I'm surprised nobody has mentioned it - she might ask to be stilled.

But would anybody do it for her? Even though she does not channel the potential is still there and don't you think it would just be a slow death? So which of the Randlanders besides Egwene would be willing to condem her to that slow death? And yes I know it is possible to survive stilling but we only know of one other person to do so.

[yoniy0]

I don't think she'll do that as a preemptive measure - she believes she can resist it and getting herself stilled would put an end to her sul'dam days.

And after the fact, it won't help. The shame is already there, the crime committed. There's no going back.

[mb]

Not sure if a learner that has not yet learned can be severed.

 

There is a chance of the attempt failing if it is attempted.

 

Most likely person/people to ask (more likely order) would be these::

-damane that was/were former Aes Sedai

-damane that formerly enrolled at White Tower

 

 

[DemandredFO]

I'd love to hear Mat's reaction if Fortuona channels, "Not only am I married to a potential flaming channeler but she just flaming channeled."  Hilarious

[Sharaman]

She does have another choice to "snapping" or staying a non-channeler, and I'm surprised nobody has mentioned it - she might ask to be stilled.

But would anybody do it for her? Even though she does not channel the potential is still there and don't you think it would just be a slow death? So which of the Randlanders besides Egwene would be willing to condem her to that slow death? And yes I know it is possible to survive stilling but we only know of one other person to do so.

 

Actually we have several examples of women who have survived stilling - all they need is a sense of purpose and Tuon has that in spades. Leane, Suian and of course, Setalle, all survived.

I'm not saying it's going to happen but it's a definite possibility that she could decide to deliberately cut herself off.

 

 

[Luckers]

The stilled option is a problem. If she were to retain that option for herself she must then offer it to the damane. She has too much integrity not to--and yes, I know that smacks against the double standard of the 'choice' she is making now, but there is a difference of action against no action.

[thewalrus777]

Tuon loves training to be a Sul'dam too much to even consider getting stilled. Plus she has an absolute resolve about never channeling...EVER. For her to manifest her ability to channel, would take a very dire situation to occur, in which her life would have to be severely in danger of ending. I just can't see that happening.

[Aquarius]

Tuon loves training to be a Sul'dam too much to even consider getting stilled. Plus she has an absolute resolve about never channeling...EVER. For her to manifest her ability to channel, would take a very dire situation to occur, in which her life would have to be severely in danger of ending. I just can't see that happening.

Exactly.

This situation will probably occur. Given where her character has been going for a while and how it's built, she WILL channel and take upon herself to either be stilled (Randland custom, not appropriate for a Seanchan), or collared (she's the Empress (mslf) , unlikely), or taught (only option left). The real question is WHEN, and what she'll accomplish by that.

 

[yoniy0]

[...]I just can't see that happening.

Exactly.

This situation will probably occur.

 

:)

[Aquarius]

[...]I just can't see that happening.

Exactly.

This situation will probably occur.

 

:)

MMm well, yes. I swear, I'm not that much schizophrenic ! :/

the "Exactly" was reffering to the "it would require a very dire situation...." and I believe it will happen.