Egwene's Reign (speculation & possible spoilers)

[thewalrus777]

Yes, her reasoning was clear in KoD. She knows the Last Battle is coming, and that a lot of work remains to be done before that happens. She picked the Tower as the place she would strart from. Her motivation is the Light's victory at TG, and her method is first uniting the Tower.

 

BTW I think you guys are fooling yourselves if you believe Rand wouldn't be suspicious towards Egwene should she approach him. For him, she's the girl who's been bugging him forever, always thinking she knows best what he's to do, and lately she (kind of) 'betrayed' him by becoming an AS through and through (he comments at times on how he can no longer completely trust her). If anything, she would be harder for him to trust than Moiraine. Note that he once said he would only trust Nynaeve for Linking (my take is he discounted Elayne and Aviendha because he didn't want to put any of them in harm's way).

 

Of course, it's as much Egwene's fault as it is his, for not 'kindling that trust' (I borrowed that one from Egwene).

 

You're right about Egwene finally admitting to herself that she hasn't done all she could to repair that damged relationship between Rand and the WT. She hasn't 'betrayed' him necessarily by becoming an Aes Sedai through and through, because she isn't one through and through. If she was an Aes Sedai through and through, she'd totally be all over Rand demanding complete obediance to the WT's rule. Which she has clearly stated that she would not do, but she would do her best to make sure the Dragon Reborn made use of them as advisors. She wants the Tower to be hands on during TG. She's now understanding how she has to play things out in regards to her rule in the WT. She has to make a lot of different women happy in the Tower, while implementing her own ideas and plans. She knows how she must deal with the Dragon, it's just not the way the Hall wants her to deal with him.

[azrael.1289]

BTW I think you guys are fooling yourselves if you believe Rand wouldn't be suspicious towards Egwene should she approach him. For him, she's the girl who's been bugging him forever, always thinking she knows best what he's to do, and lately she (kind of) 'betrayed' him by becoming an AS through and through (he comments at times on how he can no longer completely trust her). If anything, she would be harder for him to trust than Moiraine. Note that he once said he would only trust Nynaeve for Linking (my take is he discounted Elayne and Aviendha because he didn't want to put any of them in harm's way).

That was by WH. In LoC or tFoH, I remember reading him specically stating the only people who he trusts are Eg,Nyn,El,Av,Mat,Perrin and Min. That's more proof of how their relationship deteriorated. And more proof that any one of them should have done something about that.

[Durinax]

BTW I think you guys are fooling yourselves if you believe Rand wouldn't be suspicious towards Egwene should she approach him. For him, she's the girl who's been bugging him forever, always thinking she knows best what he's to do, and lately she (kind of) 'betrayed' him by becoming an AS through and through (he comments at times on how he can no longer completely trust her). If anything, she would be harder for him to trust than Moiraine. Note that he once said he would only trust Nynaeve for Linking (my take is he discounted Elayne and Aviendha because he didn't want to put any of them in harm's way).

That was by WH. In LoC or tFoH, I remember reading him specically stating the only people who he trusts are Eg,Nyn,El,Av,Mat,Perrin and Min. That's more proof of how their relationship deteriorated. And more proof that any one of them should have done something about that.

I dont think he trusts Egwene very much anymore. After all she has treated him as a stranger, only criticizing, and in FoH he thinks about how far he could trust her since she was becoming a AS in mind as well as practice. He even thinks about how he could trust Moraine more than her after Moraine swears her oath

[TheAngryDruid]

Sorry, but I didn't read the whole thread after it degenerated into a Rand v. Egwene flame war for about 5 (or more?) pages.

 

For me, I think one has to divide the things she needs to do into two categories:

 

A) Things she must do (in terms of plot and things on her plate); and

B) Changes to the AS under her reign (which was more to the OP's question).

 

First, the things she has to do are fairly clear:

1) Deal with the Seanchan threat to the Tower

2) Deal with the missing sisters at the BT/Deal with the BT

3) Before she does #2, she'll try to make contact with Rand (or Cadsuane) or someone else Rand trusts (Nynaeve, Elaine, Min, Mat, Perrin, Mo).

4) She has to try to find Mesaana and warn leaders about the Blacks and continuing hunting the Black

5) She has to bring the rest of the sister's in (and test them)

6) She has to prepare the WT and the world for TG

7) Might want to use all that AS knowledge to try to help Rand figure out at way to win at TG and seal the prison up.

8) Get AS advisors she can trust to every leader (including the damn Borderlanders).

 

Second, in terms of AS stuff:

1) Find a purpose for the Reds now that males can channel safely (hunting DF's sounds good to me).

2) Reintegrate the Kin with the WT, and also meld the WT with Sea Folk and Aiel channelers (or at least build a relationship).

3) Deal with the issues involving the Oath Rod, obedience. At TG, is removing the oath a good idea? Egwene was so successful against the Seanchan w/out it, and the other AS so poor. Plus the issues with aging. She seems to have decided against this under Siuan's and Balthamel's influence. Will she stick to it?

4) Teach so that AS knowledge is preserved and increased rather than lost.

5) Deal with the impact of having male channelers bonded to AS and vice versa.

 

 

[azrael.1289]

Sorry, but I didn't read the whole thread after it degenerated into a Rand v. Egwene flame war for about 5 (or more?) pages.

Yeah...Sorry about that.  :)

[Lambada]

3) Deal with the issues involving the Oath Rod, obedience. At TG, is removing the oath a good idea? Egwene was so successful against the Seanchan w/out it, and the other AS so poor.

Just isolating one point that caught my eye - but IMO she was only successful against the Seanchan beacuse she wasn't bound under the Oaths. If she had been bound then she would have had to convince herself that her life was in danger or that they were all Dark Friends. She knew neither was the case.

 

Yet at TG she will be fighting Dark Friends and Dreadlords (and will know it) - thus the Oaths will let her and any other Aes Sedai. There's also an argument that as they know the DO will destroy everything then their lives are in danger. Thus I would see removing the Oaths as unnecessary for that reason.(I'll admit that there are other reasons to remove them.). Naturally this assumes that TG will be a huge battle with clear lines - which is by no means the only way it could go down.

[Dreamwalker]

3) Deal with the issues involving the Oath Rod, obedience. At TG, is removing the oath a good idea? Egwene was so successful against the Seanchan w/out it, and the other AS so poor.

Just isolating one point that caught my eye - but IMO she was only successful against the Seanchan beacuse she wasn't bound under the Oaths. If she had been bound then she would have had to convince herself that her life was in danger or that they were all Dark Friends. She knew neither was the case.

 

Yet at TG she will be fighting Dark Friends and Dreadlords (and will know it) - thus the Oaths will let her and any other Aes Sedai. There's also an argument that as they know the DO will destroy everything then their lives are in danger. Thus I would see removing the Oaths as unnecessary for that reason.(I'll admit that there are other reasons to remove them.). Naturally this assumes that TG will be a huge battle with clear lines - which is by no means the only way it could go down.

 

(I don't think this will happen - but just for speculation's sake:)

If the Oaths were removed, it would mean more than just being able to use the power as a weapon. They'd be able to use that little talked of second oath - they could use the power to create weapons. Power wrought swords made of cuendillar. Power wrought "Dragons" anyone? :)

[DemandredFO]

My standard example for what the oaths force you to do was Verin but she's gone, so I'll have to go with Dumis Wells.  The AS Perrin brought had to put themselves in the middle of the shaido to be effective.  All the Shaido were trying to do was capture or kill the Dragon, WHE NEEDED to be there for TG yet the AS had to put themselves in range of being killed to be effective.

Hypothetically, lets just say Demandred is controlling Shara and its army and AS find out about it, then, instead of Trollocs you have the Sharan army at TG and not even the Great Captain Bryne can do anything and only AS can save the Tower.  So are the AS going to put themselves in danger to defend the Tower.  Coming down from your fortifications to engage one enemy seems like asking for a hammer to smash them again the non-DF army.  As Lambada pointed out, not all DF's are going to advertise.

Everyone in Randland knows the oath against lying is a joke, so remove 1&3 and keep 2

[yoniy0]

Just isolating one point that caught my eye - but IMO she was only successful against the Seanchan beacuse she wasn't bound under the Oaths. If she had been bound then she would have had to convince herself that her life was in danger or that they were all Dark Friends. She knew neither was the case.

 

Yet at TG she will be fighting Dark Friends and Dreadlords (and will know it) - thus the Oaths will let her and any other Aes Sedai. There's also an argument that as they know the DO will destroy everything then their lives are in danger. Thus I would see removing the Oaths as unnecessary for that reason.(I'll admit that there are other reasons to remove them.). Naturally this assumes that TG will be a huge battle with clear lines - which is by no means the only way it could go down.

(I don't think this will happen - but just for speculation's sake:)

If the Oaths were removed, it would mean more than just being able to use the power as a weapon. They'd be able to use that little talked of second oath - they could use the power to create weapons. Power wrought swords made of cuendillar. Power wrought "Dragons" anyone? :)

First, I don't agree that Egwene did anything she couldn't have done Oath-bound during the Seanchan raid. Except perhaps falling raken that were already retreating. For everything else - they were endangering the lives of sisters, so they're fair play.

Second, the reason I don't think the DO'll-destroy-all argument works is the wording of the Oath: "the last extreme of protecting my life...". If you could consider a future way to forestall his plans viable, then it's not the last extreme.

And last, yeah, power-wrought weapons WILL be cool. I'm just not sure that we won't get to see them anyway. I mean, I think Alanna (and Verin, but that doesn't tell us much) did something to the ballistae Perrin's people used in the Two-Rivers, so that the stones would explode when they hit the earth. Presumably, she could do that because she knew for certain that it would only be used against Shadowspawn.

[DemandredFO]

Here what she probably wouldn't been able to do Oath-bound, Travel within the tower because that could've endangered another sister, so I'm pretty sure no Travelling to get the sa'angreal.  Probably no linking either.  Even if I'm wrong on all counts, it would still take time to rationalize breaking the oath and by then you're dead

[yoniy0]

Frankly, I don't see why you think it would take any rationalization. On the merits of my argument, endangering someone isn't the same as using a weapon, or killing. I don't even see what the problem is with linking.

But more importantly, I didn't need to put in a minute's thought to decide it's okay (I didn't even consider that there might be a problem with it). Case in point - it wouldn't take someone a long time to work around the Oaths :)

[Netizen]

The reason my post count is so low is that I usually wait to read the whole thread before posting, and invariably I find that someone else has said what I was going to say! I'm like the little quiet one at the back who can't get a word in. So I'm now going to post on something from page 6 or so, and to SG with it!

 

[tt]The White Tower will be whole again, except for remnants cast out and scorned, [/tt]

 

Poor Elaida. How was she to know that she would be part of the remnants herself! And there she was thinking she would be the Amyrlin shouting at Rand.

 

[tt]Rand al’Thor will face the Amyrlin Seat and know her anger.[/tt]

 

Rand will know her anger. The first time I read that I assumed that Egwene would be angry with Rand. Now, I think that Rand knowing her anger means that he is angry too - they will share a common cause and work together to achieve it. He's not facing her anger, he is sharing in it. He knows it. And from the rest of the foretelling, I'm guessing that it will lead to them purging the BT.

[Durinax]

it could be him getting angry in response to her also. After all we have seen that men and women do not see eye to eye in the WoT universe

[lillcheese]

I think sharing the anger is going to be over the raid on the WT.  Rand may not trust AS but he won't tolerate leashing. He told Tuon that point was non-negotiable.  Even if he's now more sane, I think the box will keep him at least a bit bonkers on this issue.

 

I am now imagining a massive assault by Asha'man & AS against the Seanchan to free damane.  I think a spectacular defeat will be necessary to get Fortuona to submit to Rand.  I don't like the tricksiness other people want to see with crystal chairs from Rhuidean. 

 

 

[Ollie]

Will Moirane play any part though? Mat's on his way to rescue her, i guess we'll see her again in the next novel, surely her influence would greatly smooth things between Rand and the WT? Otherwise all i can see her doing is falling in behind Rand again...which would be kinda lame and falling in love with Thom.

 

[FarShainMael]

[tt]Rand al?Thor will face the Amyrlin Seat and know her anger.[/tt]

 

Rand will know her anger. The first time I read that I assumed that Egwene would be angry with Rand. Now, I think that Rand knowing her anger means that he is angry too - they will share a common cause and work together to achieve it. He's not facing her anger, he is sharing in it. He knows it. And from the rest of the foretelling, I'm guessing that it will lead to them purging the BT.

 

I'm re-reading tGS and have got up to Siuan's meeting with Egwene in TAR: Ch8, 'Clean Shirts'. Eggy calls the bonding of AS by Rand/Taim's A'M 'an atrocity', and says she will have to 'deal with the DR's foolishness' later. Suian mentions 'claims' that saidin has been cleansed, which apparently Eggy hadn't heard about. I'd guess that Eggy will give Rand the rough edge of her tongue, along the lines of 'how dare you let your people drag AS down into madness and death with them', while Rand protests 'But...'

 

Then when he has convinced her, they get on with sorting out the BT.

 

[DemandredFO]

Maybe it won't play out as a shouting match, but I still think there will be shouting involved.  Rand is probably as sane as is going to get post-Dragonmount.  Egwene's KNOWS Rand has been a very bad boy, even though she hasn't talked to him in what, 6 books.  It will probably be the Iresitable force meets the Immovable Object.  There's bound to be some shouting.

[FarShainMael]

Table. Hills. Run!

 

[azrael.1289]

Maybe it won't play out as a shouting match, but I still think there will be shouting involved.  Rand is probably as sane as is going to get post-Dragonmount.  Egwene's KNOWS Rand has been a very bad boy, even though she hasn't talked to him in what, 6 books.  It will probably be the Iresitable force meets the Immovable Object.  There's bound to be some shouting.

I for one will be extremely disappointed if this turns into another shouting match. We have seen enough of it in the 12 books.

[Durinax]

I prefer to believe Egwene will try to steam roll over him, but it will end up being like her driving a Jetta into a brick wall though

[Dreamwalker]

Assuming Rand and Egwene's reunion will devolve into a shouting match does both of them a disservice in ignoring the character development that each has undergone in the last couple of books. Post Veins of Gold Rand will likely not be so hard and will hopefully be a little less arrogant and will definitely be less full of rage. As Amyrlin Egwene learned a lot about talking being more effective than shouting. Look at the meetings between her and Nynaeve in T'A'R - she's definitely learned that staying calm when others get flustered gives you the upper hand in an argument. Further she has matured a lot in her captivity in the WT - she's learned the art of peaceful protest and how you can be a leader even while having a little humility.

 

I think that even if they get in an argument, it definitely won't be a shouting-match like old Rand and Egwene would have had. Rather, it would involve something much more akin to The Game of Houses, with cool and sophisticated word-fencing - who can out-talk the other.

[egwenes#1hater]

i was just wondering why everybody assumes that male channelers will join the WT? i for one dont think they will want to. I would prefer it that way too.the Ashaman are so much cooler 8)  than those idiots at the WT. as to Rand and Egwenes confrontation i hope Rand lets her finish talking and then laughs in her face ;D. Egwene is the biggest idiot of them all. 

[Durinax]

i was just wondering why everybody assumes that male channelers will join the WT? i for one dont think they will want to. I would prefer it that way too.the Ashaman are so much cooler 8)  than those idiots at the WT. as to Rand and Egwenes confrontation i hope Rand lets her finish talking and then laughs in her face ;D. Egwene is the biggest idiot of them all. 

Like

 

It is gonna be disastrous when they meet

[DemandredFO]

Even if they don't have a full meltdown, neither do I think that Rand and Egwene will go strolling through freshly blooming roses

[Lambada]

I'm wondering if they are now at the point where they might actually listen to each other.

Egwene's Aiel-like attitude means she stands by what she says - but only until shown otherwise.

Rand's post VoG (Is this the first time a chapter has ever had an abbreviation?) attitude could mean that he might listen to advice (if it's not given in a threatening manner).

 

I think that when they do meet we will see both sides correcting the other side about some things.

And post that meeting the Light might well be in the best shape it will have been for a while.

 

Though I suspect that means Moridin will try to prevent said meeting as long as possible (unless his game isn't as simple as that ;) )