Egwene's Reign (speculation & possible spoilers)

[Lambada]

You're still not getting it. She had the knowledge that she COULD get out if things got too bad.

I have to disagree here. Technically yes she could get out - but only via a rescue party. Which would likely have turned into sisters killing sisters. Something she was opposed to until the last possible moment. In addition, to have to be rescued would undermine her authority as Amyrlin with the rebels. She would rather have died than have sisters killing sisters just to rescue her. Yes she technically had a choice, but when her own standards would not allow it then there is no choice.

[Durinax]

she didnt need a fight to break out in order to be rescued, all she had to do was show Suian the room and she and another trusted person could have travelled in and out

[Ataxia]

If she wasnt able to dream walk id put it at the same level as Rand, but since all he had was a madman...Well, yeah.

[Durinax]

has anyone noticed that rand and egwene have very similar experiences but it seems that rand gets it worse in most cases?

[Lambada]

she didnt need a fight to break out in order to be rescued, all she had to do was show Suian the room and she and another trusted person could have travelled in and out

It would have been madness to do that while she was still walking around the tower as she was making good progress towards her goal of removing Elaida. Once she was in the cell then the gateway would have to have been opened outside of the cell i.e. right infront of two full sisters who will then get the weave for Traveling and will have to be dealt with. To open it inside the cell would have sliced Egwene in two due to its small size.

[Crossroad]

Its like comparing apples and pears no way she would have survived if the situation was reversed.  Oh she would have come out alive but I think she would been a basket case.  Rand was.

[azrael.1289]

You're still not getting it. She had the knowledge that she COULD get out if things got too bad.

I have to disagree here. Technically yes she could get out - but only via a rescue party. Which would likely have turned into sisters killing sisters. Something she was opposed to until the last possible moment. In addition, to have to be rescued would undermine her authority as Amyrlin with the rebels. She would rather have died than have sisters killing sisters just to rescue her. Yes she technically had a choice, but when her own standards would not allow it then there is no choice.

It is the possibility that she can escape if she so wished that is important, not whether she would do it or not.

 

As the previous poster said, the difference becomes even more apparent if you imagine the situations being reversed.

[garion]

I will be honest at first I just disliked Egwene for saying how Rands' and her imprisonments were similar.  Now I would say that they were similar except that Rand's previous experiences made it a hell of a lot tougher for him.On a scale of 1-10 of pain and what not during imprisonment, Egwene gets a 9 while Rand gets an 11.

[azrael.1289]

I will be honest at first I just disliked Egwene for saying how Rands' and her imprisonments were similar.  Now I would say that they were similar except that Rand's previous experiences made it a hell of a lot tougher for him.On a scale of 1-10 of pain and what not during imprisonment, Egwene gets a 9 while Rand gets an 11.

I myself would put it at 5 and 15, but that could just be me. :P

 

And I don't think Egwene says her imprisonment was similar to Rand. She just gets perspective of what Rand went through after her imprisonment.

[thewalrus777]

Egwene leaving her imprisonment, would have undone everything she worked to achieve in turning all those Sisters to her thinking. Everything would have been undone. And if her rescue would have ended in Aes Sedai bloodshed, her purpose would've been all for nought. The purpose of her imprisonment, is to try and heal the WT in a non-violent way. She want's no bloodshed except her own. Truth be told, I firmly believe if she was put in the same situation that Rand was in, she would have survived that. She is a very strong minded woman, that still would've kept her wits about her. Rand during his captivity only focused on how pissed he was about being kidnapped. He didn't see the BIG picture to focus his feelings on. Even if he was going mad at the time. We've seen his ability to shut the voice in his head up. He was strong enough then to focus his emotions, but he didn't. Egwene has always been a very strong willed individual, even before she left the Two Rivers. And ever since she trained with the WO's her tenacity has only gotten stronger. She survived the Seanchan treatment of channeler's so she can survive anything else thrown her way.

[Durinax]

Egwene leaving her imprisonment, would have undone everything she worked to achieve in turning all those Sisters to her thinking. Everything would have been undone. And if her rescue would have ended in Aes Sedai bloodshed, her purpose would've been all for nought. The purpose of her imprisonment, is to try and heal the WT in a non-violent way. She want's no bloodshed except her own. Truth be told, I firmly believe if she was put in the same situation that Rand was in, she would have survived that. She is a very strong minded woman, that still would've kept her wits about her. Rand during his captivity only focused on how pissed he was about being kidnapped. He didn't see the BIG picture to focus his feelings on. Even if he was going mad at the time. We've seen his ability to shut the voice in his head up. He was strong enough then to focus his emotions, but he didn't. Egwene has always been a very strong willed individual, even before she left the Two Rivers. And ever since she trained with the WO's her tenacity has only gotten stronger. She survived the Seanchan treatment of channeler's so she can survive anything else thrown her way.

The only reason she survived the seanchan is the fact that she had min to talk to. And if Egwene was put in rands position where she could not have any contact with anyone except for beatings, had a voice in her head that was constantly saying how bad things where and how much worse it was going to get, and no big picture to look at she would have broke. Those are about the conditions Rand was under

[alligator]

Egwene's imprisonment and beatings had a purpose in her mind-- she had to keep trying to unite the Tower. Rand, on the other hand, had no reason to think that what he was going through had a higher purpose. His situation was senseless and hopeless. Rand's was SO much worse, physically and mentally.

[Crossroad]

Egwene leaving her imprisonment, would have undone everything she worked to achieve in turning all those Sisters to her thinking. Everything would have been undone. And if her rescue would have ended in Aes Sedai bloodshed, her purpose would've been all for nought. The purpose of her imprisonment, is to try and heal the WT in a non-violent way. She want's no bloodshed except her own. Truth be told, I firmly believe if she was put in the same situation that Rand was in, she would have survived that. She is a very strong minded woman, that still would've kept her wits about her. Rand during his captivity only focused on how pissed he was about being kidnapped. He didn't see the BIG picture to focus his feelings on. Even if he was going mad at the time. We've seen his ability to shut the voice in his head up. He was strong enough then to focus his emotions, but he didn't. Egwene has always been a very strong willed individual, even before she left the Two Rivers. And ever since she trained with the WO's her tenacity has only gotten stronger. She survived the Seanchan treatment of channeler's so she can survive anything else thrown her way.

 

Apples and Pears bro No comparison, her strength comes from her Two Rivers Stubbornness and she's a bully.  The only woman in this book series who has Rand respect is Moiraine and shes back in the next book.

Hoorah!

 

 

[Mithan]

I've always felt Elaida's Palace would be turned into an apartment thing for the Men Channelers. 

[azrael.1289]

Egwene leaving her imprisonment, would have undone everything she worked to achieve in turning all those Sisters to her thinking. Everything would have been undone. And if her rescue would have ended in Aes Sedai bloodshed, her purpose would've been all for nought. The purpose of her imprisonment, is to try and heal the WT in a non-violent way. She want's no bloodshed except her own. Truth be told, I firmly believe if she was put in the same situation that Rand was in, she would have survived that. She is a very strong minded woman, that still would've kept her wits about her. Rand during his captivity only focused on how pissed he was about being kidnapped. He didn't see the BIG picture to focus his feelings on. Even if he was going mad at the time. We've seen his ability to shut the voice in his head up. He was strong enough then to focus his emotions, but he didn't. Egwene has always been a very strong willed individual, even before she left the Two Rivers. And ever since she trained with the WO's her tenacity has only gotten stronger. She survived the Seanchan treatment of channeler's so she can survive anything else thrown her way.

The only reason she survived the seanchan is the fact that she had min to talk to. And if Egwene was put in rands position where she could not have any contact with anyone except for beatings, had a voice in her head that was constantly saying how bad things where and how much worse it was going to get, and no big picture to look at she would have broke. Those are about the conditions Rand was under

Not to mention all Rand had to look forward even if he escaped was his prophecised death(he thought he would die even after his answers from Aelfinn) whereas the situation wasn't anywhere near as bleak for Egwene.

 

What is important is that Egwene had some sense of control when she was captured. She could talk to people, she knew it was her choice to be there not anyone else's, her imprisonment was serving a purpose that was favorable to her. Rand on the other hand  didn't even have a shred of even a sense of control over his situation. He was stuck with a madman in his head whether he wanted to or not, he was captured with no hope for escape, had to see Min getting tortured, all this while knowing his imprisonment was serving no favorable purpose whatsoever.

 

That sense of control is the most important thing in the world for people who have had to endure traumatic events. So, I really don't understand how anyone can say her situation was worse.

 

She survived Seanchan alright but she would cringe at even the smallest mention of anything Seanchan related after that. Now imagine Rand reacting that way to all AS or even better imagine if the situation is reversed. Imagine this scenario, Egwene right after her Seanchan experience had to take on a Seanchan adviser, two of the people she grew up with are now Seanchan, Gawyn(Elayne is AS for Rand) is Seanchan, the Seanchan are still targeting you etc etc etc. All this while knowing if you make one small mistake, it very well could be the end of the world quite literally. You still think she is stronger willed?

 

And I really hope the WT plays a HUGE HUGE role in TG cos otherwise all her efforts will be in vain.

 

[garion]

Well said azrael.1289!

[Diederichos]

They're different situations, but I want to add this. Egwene was paddled,  badly, but paddled nonetheless right? I think that Rand was actually tortured out and out. My memory is bad, but I think that's what happened. If that's the case, it can't be the same level of pain right?

[Durinax]

Egwene was paddled and switched but no more than that.

Rand was tortured all out by some BA members, and by the AS whose warder he killed

[garion]

Also, remember she hasn't even heard about the Domination Band and that episode yet.

[lillcheese]

When evaluating Egwene's captivity, don't forget that they were effectively starving her.

 

She was forced to work scrubbing pots, go to lessons on channeling, and was healed once or twice a day for her beatings.  Because of all her extra punishments, we're told she barely had time to eat.  We also know it's unlikely that she was being given extra food to fuel her healings.

[Durinax]

rand was starved too

[thewalrus777]

It's not a comparison of who had it worse, but a comparison of similar situations. I would never say Egwene's captivity was worse than Rand's because it wasn't. There are 2 totally different circumstances involving each captivity. One was self imposed for the resolution of a major problem involving the WT. The other was a botched operation by a bunch of lack-witted Aes Sedai who clearly didn't understand the ramifications of their actions. Their situations were similar in a way they were treated in the end.

[Lambada]

Exactly thewalrus

And through tehse similar events they can come to understand each other's anger. In other words, to know it - as the Foretelling says they will.

[thewalrus777]

Exactly thewalrus

And through tehse similar events they can come to understand each other's anger. In other words, to know it - as the Foretelling says they will.

 

That makes sense to me more than anything else. The foretelling doesn't have to be Egwene screaming Rand's ear off. I think along the same way as you do.

[Damodred]

I'd wager alot of scrilla that you're both (And me of course :P) right.  I'm glad other people think along the same lines.  I'll eat my foot with marinara sauce if the scene entails something lame like Egwene screaming at Rand after all's been said and done.